Never forget. Always be vigilant. Take nothing for granted.
God bless this country!
God bless this country!
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9-11: 21 Years Ago Today
- Thread starter FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor
- Start date
Idk i went through immigration and customs a few months ago, seemed to be well staffed.
Oh, you mean you actually complied with the law.....that's now optional if you are willing to go through Mexico.
I’m curious how/why you’d choose to weave a border security PSA into your 9-11 remembrance.
My question isn’t about whether or not we need tighter border controls but just about your choice to tie that message to 9/11.
Can you please help connect the dots here?
Per US govt staff 9/11 review document “As we know from the sizable illegal traffic across our land borders, a terrorist could attempt to bypass legal procedures and enter the United States surreptitiously. None of the 9/11 attackers entered or tried to enter our country this way.”
And maybe you have better data, but per the Brookings Institute “In fact, out of the 180 individuals arrested by February 2019 for plotting jihadi terrorist attacks in the United States, only four were found to have illegally crossed U.S. land borders. Three of them did indeed come into the United States across the U.S.-Mexico border – in 1984 when they were five, three, and less than one year old! Clearly, their radicalization and efforts to plot a terrorist attack in 2007 occurred in the United States.”
The first of the 19 people that carried out the attacks entered the country in early 2000. The others entered between then and mid 2001. Many of these came from the so called Hamburg cell in Germany.
I agree that certain aspects of our borders and immigration policy is less than desirable and borderline wide open. And less than stringent policies in those areas could lead to lapses in areas such as visa control and immigration control in airports ect... I don't see that this was an issue for the 9/11 attacks. Most of the attackers and support personnel came into the country through airports or land crossings in Canada with visa's during a time of tighter border controls. 9/11 was as much a intelligence failure as anything else. All that being said with the influx of people coming into the country its hard to imagine we are safer than before.
Terrible events that day many of which still go unknown.
The airport wouldn't be a good place to enter if your trying to sneak in.
Idk OP said borders are wide open. I suppose he's saying that there are no agents at land crossings and no one is patrolling spaces between crossings?
Which again is a weird thing to tie to 9/11, which was the result of a bunch of guys who entered legally.
Trillions spent on “Homeland Security.” Meanwhile, loyal, innocent and well-credentialed American citizens are hassled daily as they make an unremarkable trip from, say, Tampa to New York (or any similar cities).
At the same time, thousands of complete unknown illegals scamper across the Mexican border EVERY DAY. Any possibility that a few of those folks may have illegitimate intentions? Or should we just blindly “trust them” and hope for the best??? LOL.
At the same time, thousands of complete unknown illegals scamper across the Mexican border EVERY DAY. Any possibility that a few of those folks may have illegitimate intentions? Or should we just blindly “trust them” and hope for the best??? LOL.
Considering a large percentage of them are not from Central America, yes, lots of illegitimate intentions.
What did he mean? That he’s using 9/11 to create hysteria about the border, which is totally unrelated and an overblown fear mongering tactic?
Reliable do you live in Texas like Gary?
I used to - for a long time - and if it’s your opinion that at least TWO MILLION illegals - that’s just this year alone - are an “overblown” situation then I can only SMH.
Perhaps discussing this with 9/11 is an errant conflation but nonetheless it is not a scare mongering tactic by any reasonable means.
SMH
I used to - for a long time - and if it’s your opinion that at least TWO MILLION illegals - that’s just this year alone - are an “overblown” situation then I can only SMH.
Perhaps discussing this with 9/11 is an errant conflation but nonetheless it is not a scare mongering tactic by any reasonable means.
SMH
SMH is right, but for different reasons.
In reference to "Never forget. Always be vigilant. Take nothing for granted. Our borders have been WIDE OPEN for 18+ months. God bless this country!"
and
"Trillions spent on “Homeland Security.” Meanwhile, loyal, innocent and well-credentialed American citizens are hassled daily as they make an unremarkable trip from, say, Tampa to New York (or any similar cities).
At the same time, thousands of complete unknown illegals scamper across the Mexican border EVERY DAY. Any possibility that a few of those folks may have illegitimate intentions? Or should we just blindly “trust them” and hope for the best??? LOL."
and all the approvers and promoters of that messaging...
First, we do have common ground in that we love our Noles.
And yes, we should work across the aisle to improve our immigration policy (including making it less burdensome and dangerous for well-intentioned immigrants to come fill jobs that current US citizens will not), to assist to the extent we reasonably can in reducing the drivers that lead so many of our southern neighbors to flee their homes, and to close border security gaps, while being economically prudent in doing so.
Hopefully we can all agree that fear-mongering is not conducive to effective problem-solving and fuels distrust, discrimination and property-and-life-threatening hate crimes as well. We should avoid that.
Yes, there has indeed been an increase in migrant encounters along our southern border in 2022. That's a documented fact.
But how is that related to 9/11 in any way that justifies conflating the two things, and why fear-monger and promote irrational narratives about immigration and immigrants, documented or otherwise?
A significant portion of the increase in migrant encounters at the Southern border is due to the unintended repeat entry attempt consequences of Title 42, which was rarely used pre-Covid, invoked in 2020 by the DJT administration and the repeal of which is currently caught up in the courts.
This increase in repeat attempts means that the spike in migrant encounter numbers is not only driven by a higher count of individuals seeking a better life in the US... oops, by a huge surge in ill-intentioned invaders.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...immigration-enforcement-at-u-s-mexico-border/
But strangely, that complex Title 42 stuff is not addressed at all in any of this message board's WIDE OPEN BORDERS INVASION!!!!!! hyperventilating and demonizing of immigrants.
Maybe because it's too much work to do the research, doesn't fit a preferred narrative and doesn't provide the immediate endorphin rush some get from eye roll emojis and quick partisan zingers, plus the confirmation bias and ego rewards of message board approval?
Beyond the totally gratuitous nature of hijacking 9/11 remembrance to spread more xenophobic fear, let’s look at the legitimacy of the aspersions on immigrants, regardless of entry status.
Let's remember that the US relies on immigrants to fill the thousands upon thousands of jobs that native-born US citizens will not fill, and which are crucial to putting food on our plates, moving goods around the country, staffing and cleaning hotels and hospitals, and otherwise keeping our economy going, while tamping down inflation vs. what it would be if those jobs weren't filled, and also forming more new companies than do native borns.
insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu
Our ancestors all came from somewhere else. I've never heard anybody on these boards or elsewhere refer to our own immigrant ancestors as invaders or their arrival as an invasion, as those who promote typical Tucker Carlson talking points about our southern border are quick to do. I don't know under what circumstances your ancestors came, but mine came here to escape death in Hitler's concentration camps (just as many recent/current Central American immigrants come here to escape persecution, police extortion, etc.) My immigrant grandparents broke laws to get out of Austria, and though they were eventually able to legally enter the US via South America (since the direct immigration door had closed to additional Holocaust refugees), they certainly would have broken any immigration laws they needed to along the way to get here, and they were not "invaders".
But back to the specific wording of postings in this thread --
Given the “illegitimate intentions” of illegal aliens whom we should be fearing compared to the “loyal, innocent and well-credentialed American citizens” who are supposedly far more deserving of our trust and optimism, isn’t it bizarre that study after study shows that legal AND undocumented immigrants are actually far less likely to commit crimes (beyond their immigration status), both on an absolute and per capita basis, than are native-born Americans?
This particular study looks at Texas data, but similar findings are available to you for studies conducted around the US, over multiple decades.
Google is your friend.
news.wisc.edu
So why do people keep using language and messaging that demonizes Souther border immigration of all flavors...
Does the foreboding hype keep getting parroted simply because fear-mongering works?
Given how frequently some board participants parrot the xenophobic talking points of Tucker Carlson, it might be helpful to remember that Tucker's own lawyers have made clear that no "reasonable viewer" should ever be looking to him for factual enlightenment.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9
btw, for anyone who subscribes to the Q-level nutso and dangerous "great replacement theory" nonsense, I'm sorry you've gotten so caught up down the rabbit hole. Yes, we do have nuttiness on the extreme fringes of all political parties, but it's unfortunate and even deadly when those irrational fears infect the thinking of those who tend to be more moderate in their partisan views.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...t-theory-and-how-does-it-fuel-racist-violence
Back to more productive work now, since I realize none of this is going to change any minds. Especially the TLDR crowd just looking to provoke and score message board applause.
Go Noles!
In reference to "Never forget. Always be vigilant. Take nothing for granted. Our borders have been WIDE OPEN for 18+ months. God bless this country!"
and
"Trillions spent on “Homeland Security.” Meanwhile, loyal, innocent and well-credentialed American citizens are hassled daily as they make an unremarkable trip from, say, Tampa to New York (or any similar cities).
At the same time, thousands of complete unknown illegals scamper across the Mexican border EVERY DAY. Any possibility that a few of those folks may have illegitimate intentions? Or should we just blindly “trust them” and hope for the best??? LOL."
and all the approvers and promoters of that messaging...
First, we do have common ground in that we love our Noles.
And yes, we should work across the aisle to improve our immigration policy (including making it less burdensome and dangerous for well-intentioned immigrants to come fill jobs that current US citizens will not), to assist to the extent we reasonably can in reducing the drivers that lead so many of our southern neighbors to flee their homes, and to close border security gaps, while being economically prudent in doing so.
Hopefully we can all agree that fear-mongering is not conducive to effective problem-solving and fuels distrust, discrimination and property-and-life-threatening hate crimes as well. We should avoid that.
Yes, there has indeed been an increase in migrant encounters along our southern border in 2022. That's a documented fact.
But how is that related to 9/11 in any way that justifies conflating the two things, and why fear-monger and promote irrational narratives about immigration and immigrants, documented or otherwise?
A significant portion of the increase in migrant encounters at the Southern border is due to the unintended repeat entry attempt consequences of Title 42, which was rarely used pre-Covid, invoked in 2020 by the DJT administration and the repeal of which is currently caught up in the courts.
This increase in repeat attempts means that the spike in migrant encounter numbers is not only driven by a higher count of individuals seeking a better life in the US... oops, by a huge surge in ill-intentioned invaders.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...immigration-enforcement-at-u-s-mexico-border/
But strangely, that complex Title 42 stuff is not addressed at all in any of this message board's WIDE OPEN BORDERS INVASION!!!!!! hyperventilating and demonizing of immigrants.
Maybe because it's too much work to do the research, doesn't fit a preferred narrative and doesn't provide the immediate endorphin rush some get from eye roll emojis and quick partisan zingers, plus the confirmation bias and ego rewards of message board approval?
Beyond the totally gratuitous nature of hijacking 9/11 remembrance to spread more xenophobic fear, let’s look at the legitimacy of the aspersions on immigrants, regardless of entry status.
Let's remember that the US relies on immigrants to fill the thousands upon thousands of jobs that native-born US citizens will not fill, and which are crucial to putting food on our plates, moving goods around the country, staffing and cleaning hotels and hospitals, and otherwise keeping our economy going, while tamping down inflation vs. what it would be if those jobs weren't filled, and also forming more new companies than do native borns.
Immigrants to the U.S. Create More Jobs than They Take
A new study finds that immigrants are far more likely to found companies—both large and small—than native-born Americans.
insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu
Our ancestors all came from somewhere else. I've never heard anybody on these boards or elsewhere refer to our own immigrant ancestors as invaders or their arrival as an invasion, as those who promote typical Tucker Carlson talking points about our southern border are quick to do. I don't know under what circumstances your ancestors came, but mine came here to escape death in Hitler's concentration camps (just as many recent/current Central American immigrants come here to escape persecution, police extortion, etc.) My immigrant grandparents broke laws to get out of Austria, and though they were eventually able to legally enter the US via South America (since the direct immigration door had closed to additional Holocaust refugees), they certainly would have broken any immigration laws they needed to along the way to get here, and they were not "invaders".
But back to the specific wording of postings in this thread --
Given the “illegitimate intentions” of illegal aliens whom we should be fearing compared to the “loyal, innocent and well-credentialed American citizens” who are supposedly far more deserving of our trust and optimism, isn’t it bizarre that study after study shows that legal AND undocumented immigrants are actually far less likely to commit crimes (beyond their immigration status), both on an absolute and per capita basis, than are native-born Americans?
This particular study looks at Texas data, but similar findings are available to you for studies conducted around the US, over multiple decades.
Google is your friend.
Undocumented immigrants far less likely to commit crimes in U.S. than citizens
Crime rates among undocumented immigrants are just a fraction of those of their U.S.-born neighbors, according to a first-of-its-kind analysis of Texas arrest and conviction records.
So why do people keep using language and messaging that demonizes Souther border immigration of all flavors...
Does the foreboding hype keep getting parroted simply because fear-mongering works?
Given how frequently some board participants parrot the xenophobic talking points of Tucker Carlson, it might be helpful to remember that Tucker's own lawyers have made clear that no "reasonable viewer" should ever be looking to him for factual enlightenment.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9
btw, for anyone who subscribes to the Q-level nutso and dangerous "great replacement theory" nonsense, I'm sorry you've gotten so caught up down the rabbit hole. Yes, we do have nuttiness on the extreme fringes of all political parties, but it's unfortunate and even deadly when those irrational fears infect the thinking of those who tend to be more moderate in their partisan views.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...t-theory-and-how-does-it-fuel-racist-violence
Back to more productive work now, since I realize none of this is going to change any minds. Especially the TLDR crowd just looking to provoke and score message board applause.
Go Noles!
Your post - I’m not willing to be lumped into the “TLDR” crowd you refer to (as a thinly disguised dismissive insult) - it implicates that those with a different POV are all acolytes of Tucker Carlson and thus lack the intellectual curiosity needed to read or absorb what you have provided.
Since you use his name several times may I assume that you are far more familiar with the gentleman than I am? I do not watch his program since I tend to be more entertained by offerings on HGTV or Antiques Roadshow on PBS.
My paternal grandparents were indeed immigrants to this country from Ireland and in fact came here legally. My maternal family tree has been traced far back to the French Huguenot escape to the wilderness afforded by the Carolina colonies. At that time there were no US immigration policies that I’m aware of.
How fortunate you are to be here today because of the courageous and determined actions taken by your grandparents to escape their very likely grim fate. It’s allowed you to carry on with a specific political viewpoint that all Americans are entitled to...we just need to remember that we might presume to lecture each other with an assumed air of superiority and a smug self righteousness that others may find too tempting not to push back just a wee bit...
Let us know what Mr. Carlson says about that, eh?
Since you use his name several times may I assume that you are far more familiar with the gentleman than I am? I do not watch his program since I tend to be more entertained by offerings on HGTV or Antiques Roadshow on PBS.
My paternal grandparents were indeed immigrants to this country from Ireland and in fact came here legally. My maternal family tree has been traced far back to the French Huguenot escape to the wilderness afforded by the Carolina colonies. At that time there were no US immigration policies that I’m aware of.
How fortunate you are to be here today because of the courageous and determined actions taken by your grandparents to escape their very likely grim fate. It’s allowed you to carry on with a specific political viewpoint that all Americans are entitled to...we just need to remember that we might presume to lecture each other with an assumed air of superiority and a smug self righteousness that others may find too tempting not to push back just a wee bit...
Let us know what Mr. Carlson says about that, eh?
Thanks for your thoughtful consideration of the actual substance of my post, the factual citations, etc. I’m sorry you feel the victim of anybody challenging the basis for your expressed viewpoints.
And I’ll add how curious it is that you seem to expect me to neuter my posts of anything you perceive to be “smugness” or dismissiveness or superiority, making assumptions etc but exempt yourself and actively cheer on those with even more snark and far less (or nonexistent) use of factual citations, as long as those posts align with your world views. Why is that? Have you earned special popularity privileges that I’m not allowed?
Take care.
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Ah. The first refuge of the woke...a personal jab.
With so little substance...”Cancelistas” Unite!
😏
Would you agree that my long post full of citations was indeed full of substance, and that my subsequent response to you followed your personal jabs about my alleged smugness and superiority?
Or is this the whole dish it out with glee but recoil when receiving return fire?
It sure looks like you’re avoiding addressing all the actual substance in my post while attempting to sabotage any possible meaningful convo, maybe even get the thread locked, but hopefully you’ll instead address the citations and other substance I’ve offered.
Our ancestors all came LAWFULLY from somewhere else. I've never heard anybody on these boards or elsewhere refer to our own immigrant ancestors as invaders or their arrival as an invasion, as those who promote typical Tucker Carlson talking points about our southern border are quick to do. I don't know under what circumstances your ancestors came LAWFULLY , but mine came LAWFULLY here to escape death in Hitler's concentration camps (just as many recent/current Central American immigrants come here to escape persecution, police extortion, etc.) My immigrant grandparents broke laws to get out of Austria, and though they were eventually able to legally enter the US via South America (since the direct immigration door had closed to additional Holocaust refugees), they certainly would have broken any immigration laws they needed to along the way to get here, and they were not "invaders".
Missed a couple of words there....
Missed a couple of words there....
Your post was full of links from some of the most woke academia in the country -which supported your viewpoint.
Note that I am not denying your right to hold that POV nor the attendant right to post articles supporting such.
If you think I’m “popular” may I take it to mean that you’ve also noticed that I am not one to recoil in any sense of the word? And yes I am very wary of being responsible for posts being locked. We all should try to avoid being the cause of such an event.
DFS (our mod) is overseas at the moment and is trusting us to behave. I have no intention of disappointing him.
Shooting the messenger is convenient. I get it.
I also understand that many Americans have turned increasingly anti-academia during recent years' surge in populism (MAGA and otherwise), for reasons all over the board, much of it seemingly tribal and resentful or spiteful in nature, but too often not supportive of the common good... should we ignore all the positive societal correlations of the attainment of higher education and instead be striving for a less educated populace? Should we rely on less educated/credentialed doctors to shape public health policy and less qualified researchers to perform surveys and other studies that shed light on complex issues like immigration? When is higher education good rather than mockable?
In any event, sure would love to review any data you can provide, hopefully from sources you find more credible, that refutes the data in those highly regarded sources I shared, which you disparage as "woke academia" (as if having empathy for the plight of others - is that what "woke" is? - and being well educated and highly qualified in the science of data collection and analysis is something we should discourage and mock.)
I'd also love to hear on what specific basis anybody dismisses Pew Research data.
And re: my U of Wisc and Northwestern citations, is all university research dismissible or just the ones you disagree with?
Awesome, any commentary on the data I provided to demonstrate why "WIDE OPEN BORDERS!!!!" hyperbole and fear-mongering about immigrants of ANY documentation status is unwarranted and unhelpful to coming up with effective immigration policy reforms?
I understand what you’re saying.
To be readily dismissive of attaining a level of education would be self-destructive on my part. Neither of my parents managed to graduate from college, but from day one were determined to provide my siblings and I with the opportunity and means to pursue higher education, which we did.
I suspect that learning and academic achievement were part of your heritage as well.
As one who was taught to be an observer and listener growing up, I listen to many sources, read many opinions and make every effort to reach an informed decision. Thus my approach may differ from yours. From what you write, you base your assessment of one’s credibility on what you deem as “qualified” achievement in an academic setting.
I gather that’s your arena in a professional sense? It’s what you know, what you respect and what you expect fellow travelers to respect.
That’s no failing on your part, but it is a comfort zone that not everyone shares. And I’m not here to debate the various articles or be off in the weeds of academia where I suspect you’ve toiled for a long time.
I’m just reminding you that not everyone has your perspective or your outlook. And if they differ they have legitimate points to make.
To be readily dismissive of attaining a level of education would be self-destructive on my part. Neither of my parents managed to graduate from college, but from day one were determined to provide my siblings and I with the opportunity and means to pursue higher education, which we did.
I suspect that learning and academic achievement were part of your heritage as well.
As one who was taught to be an observer and listener growing up, I listen to many sources, read many opinions and make every effort to reach an informed decision. Thus my approach may differ from yours. From what you write, you base your assessment of one’s credibility on what you deem as “qualified” achievement in an academic setting.
I gather that’s your arena in a professional sense? It’s what you know, what you respect and what you expect fellow travelers to respect.
That’s no failing on your part, but it is a comfort zone that not everyone shares. And I’m not here to debate the various articles or be off in the weeds of academia where I suspect you’ve toiled for a long time.
I’m just reminding you that not everyone has your perspective or your outlook. And if they differ they have legitimate points to make.
Thanks for understanding.
Contrary to what you might assume, I do indeed research and listen to many sources, I watch Fox (surprisingly), CNN, ABC/CBS/NBC, C-Span, etc. (never OAN or any of that craziness) and do tons of internet research (never on fringe sites, including the far-left Palmer Report and its ilk.) I'm super deliberate about researching both the potential bias and even more importantly the credibility of sources, the methodology of studies and the accuracy of info by cross-sourcing other citations as well.
I'm not a memes and tweets guy as so many seem to prefer, at least not for complex genuinely meaningful life-or-death topics, as compared to sports jockeying.
I'm a big fan of referring to media bias & credibility charts as a heads up about which sources to be extra wary about, and also of being wary of each chart's own possible leanings.
Should you trust media bias charts? – Poynter
www.poynter.org
If someone has substantive reason to refute any data that I post, besides just finding me and my wordiness annoying, I would genuinely love for them to challenge what I post in a substantive way that furthers the conversation... ie with more accurate/more credible data.
Merely mocking or dismissing the sources (such as with your "woke academia" jab) is not productive IMHO and further polarizes people into their corners. And yes, I understand that you expect me to fully neuter all my posts of anything that anyone could take offense to, since you have different standards for whatever reason for me vs. those you agree with. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume a big part of that reason is that we seem to have very different world views or politics and cultural beliefs that we embrace or don't embrace.
With the thought-leader/influencing power that accompanies your board popularity, I wish you'd participate more in the substance of conversations like this rather than primarily the wink wink barbs, but to each his/her own. I do recognize that you regularly prefer to make me the elitist "self-superior" villain and you just the cute everybody loves our board mom deliverer of populist zings that all applaud, but there are actual societal consequences to that which aren't so innocuous (and no I am NOT suggesting ill intent), which is why I don't just chuckle and let it go. The "woke" labeling doesn't help anybody.
Take care... I'm actually a goldmom fan, as you probably know, but still SMH at a lot of it.
Go Noles!
Posts like the original, which I just edited, will be the downfall of this board. You want to have a feel good thread about 911, do. Wrap in some other bullshit and you and it will be gone.
DFS ! Did you see the Queen and her funeral cortège today in Edinburgh?
I would love to hear about the day if so.
It sounds as though you’re witnessing history and you are a fortunate soul!
Well today we learned that I’m just the cute board Mom who is only capable of zings.Thanks for understanding.
Contrary to what you might assume, I do indeed research and listen to many sources, I watch Fox (surprisingly), CNN, ABC/CBS/NBC, C-Span, etc. (never OAN or any of that craziness) and do tons of internet research (never on fringe sites, including the far-left Palmer Report and its ilk.) I'm super deliberate about researching both the potential bias and even more importantly the credibility of sources, the methodology of studies and the accuracy of info by cross-sourcing other citations as well.
I'm not a memes and tweets guy as so many seem to prefer, at least not for complex genuinely meaningful life-or-death topics, as compared to sports jockeying.
I'm a big fan of referring to media bias & credibility charts as a heads up about which sources to be extra wary about, and also of being wary of each chart's own possible leanings.
Should you trust media bias charts? – Poynter
If someone has substantive reason to refute any data that I post, besides just finding me and my wordiness annoying, I would genuinely love for them to challenge what I post in a substantive way that furthers the conversation... ie with more accurate/more credible data.
Merely mocking or dismissing the sources (such as with your "woke academia" jab) is not productive IMHO and further polarizes people into their corners. And yes, I understand that you expect me to fully neuter all my posts of anything that anyone could take offense to, since you have different standards for whatever reason for me vs. those you agree with. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume a big part of that reason is that we seem to have very different world views or politics and cultural beliefs that we embrace or don't embrace.
With the thought-leader/influencing power that accompanies your board popularity, I wish you'd participate more in the substance of conversations like this rather than primarily the wink wink barbs, but to each his/her own. I do recognize that you regularly prefer to make me the elitist "self-superior" villain and you just the cute everybody loves our board mom deliverer of populist zings that all applaud, but there are actual societal consequences to that which aren't so innocuous (and no I am NOT suggesting ill intent), which is why I don't just chuckle and let it go. The "woke" labeling doesn't help anybody.
Take care... I'm actually a goldmom fan, as you probably know, but still SMH at a lot of it.
Go Noles!
May I then presume I’m interacting with a curmudgeon stuck in 1961?
I mean that seems fair...all that’s missing is a pat on the head for the little woman. 😂
Shall we agree that any future interaction be limited in scope to sharing our interest in Seminole athletics?
Unfortunately mine didn’t (indentured servants brought to Canada from Belfast in the 1920’s, were lucky to “escape” their situation and came across to the US illegally). Fortunately they were welcomed by family already here, found work and finally after many years became US citizens. This country has many different paths to the incredible place it is today, not all of them are the same.
Lol Since I’m confident you know my “cute board mom” reference wasn’t intended to be pejorative and is in fact something you’ve long embraced when expressed by others (often with appreciative blushing smileys), I’ll simply reiterate that I eagerly await any and all more credible and/or more accurate info you’d like to share which contradicts anything I posted regarding Title 42 impacts, the actual criminality of immigrants vs native-borns or anything else substantive to the fear-mongering messaging the OP chose to introduce.
Hope you have a wonderful week, and especially Fri night.
Go Noles!
We saw King Charles' motorcade today in Belfast. Yes, being here now is pure luck and we are grateful.
How exactly are American citizens hassled by CBP going from Tampa to NYC? Do you mean going through the TSA security line is hassling Americans while non citizens enjoy the freedoms of a different line? The security at airports seen and unseen by travelers is unrelated to the border and immigration issues you discuss.
I don't disagree with your assertions that millions are entering the country and that its an issue that needs to be addressed. However, relating that to airport security is a stretch at best. If your that well credentialed might I suggest a TSA precheck or global entry program? Wont get you around security might you might get hassled less.
To be fair no "reasonable viewer" should ever be looking to any news organization for factual enlightenment. They are all full of shit. Its just a matter of how much shit you like with your news.SMH is right, but for different reasons.
In reference to "Never forget. Always be vigilant. Take nothing for granted. Our borders have been WIDE OPEN for 18+ months. God bless this country!"
and
"Trillions spent on “Homeland Security.” Meanwhile, loyal, innocent and well-credentialed American citizens are hassled daily as they make an unremarkable trip from, say, Tampa to New York (or any similar cities).
At the same time, thousands of complete unknown illegals scamper across the Mexican border EVERY DAY. Any possibility that a few of those folks may have illegitimate intentions? Or should we just blindly “trust them” and hope for the best??? LOL."
and all the approvers and promoters of that messaging...
First, we do have common ground in that we love our Noles.
And yes, we should work across the aisle to improve our immigration policy (including making it less burdensome and dangerous for well-intentioned immigrants to come fill jobs that current US citizens will not), to assist to the extent we reasonably can in reducing the drivers that lead so many of our southern neighbors to flee their homes, and to close border security gaps, while being economically prudent in doing so.
Hopefully we can all agree that fear-mongering is not conducive to effective problem-solving and fuels distrust, discrimination and property-and-life-threatening hate crimes as well. We should avoid that.
Yes, there has indeed been an increase in migrant encounters along our southern border in 2022. That's a documented fact.
But how is that related to 9/11 in any way that justifies conflating the two things, and why fear-monger and promote irrational narratives about immigration and immigrants, documented or otherwise?
A significant portion of the increase in migrant encounters at the Southern border is due to the unintended repeat entry attempt consequences of Title 42, which was rarely used pre-Covid, invoked in 2020 by the DJT administration and the repeal of which is currently caught up in the courts.
This increase in repeat attempts means that the spike in migrant encounter numbers is not only driven by a higher count of individuals seeking a better life in the US... oops, by a huge surge in ill-intentioned invaders.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...immigration-enforcement-at-u-s-mexico-border/
But strangely, that complex Title 42 stuff is not addressed at all in any of this message board's WIDE OPEN BORDERS INVASION!!!!!! hyperventilating and demonizing of immigrants.
Maybe because it's too much work to do the research, doesn't fit a preferred narrative and doesn't provide the immediate endorphin rush some get from eye roll emojis and quick partisan zingers, plus the confirmation bias and ego rewards of message board approval?
Beyond the totally gratuitous nature of hijacking 9/11 remembrance to spread more xenophobic fear, let’s look at the legitimacy of the aspersions on immigrants, regardless of entry status.
Let's remember that the US relies on immigrants to fill the thousands upon thousands of jobs that native-born US citizens will not fill, and which are crucial to putting food on our plates, moving goods around the country, staffing and cleaning hotels and hospitals, and otherwise keeping our economy going, while tamping down inflation vs. what it would be if those jobs weren't filled, and also forming more new companies than do native borns.
Immigrants to the U.S. Create More Jobs than They Take
A new study finds that immigrants are far more likely to found companies—both large and small—than native-born Americans.
Our ancestors all came from somewhere else. I've never heard anybody on these boards or elsewhere refer to our own immigrant ancestors as invaders or their arrival as an invasion, as those who promote typical Tucker Carlson talking points about our southern border are quick to do. I don't know under what circumstances your ancestors came, but mine came here to escape death in Hitler's concentration camps (just as many recent/current Central American immigrants come here to escape persecution, police extortion, etc.) My immigrant grandparents broke laws to get out of Austria, and though they were eventually able to legally enter the US via South America (since the direct immigration door had closed to additional Holocaust refugees), they certainly would have broken any immigration laws they needed to along the way to get here, and they were not "invaders".
But back to the specific wording of postings in this thread --
Given the “illegitimate intentions” of illegal aliens whom we should be fearing compared to the “loyal, innocent and well-credentialed American citizens” who are supposedly far more deserving of our trust and optimism, isn’t it bizarre that study after study shows that legal AND undocumented immigrants are actually far less likely to commit crimes (beyond their immigration status), both on an absolute and per capita basis, than are native-born Americans?
This particular study looks at Texas data, but similar findings are available to you for studies conducted around the US, over multiple decades.
Google is your friend.
Undocumented immigrants far less likely to commit crimes in U.S. than citizens
Crime rates among undocumented immigrants are just a fraction of those of their U.S.-born neighbors, according to a first-of-its-kind analysis of Texas arrest and conviction records.
So why do people keep using language and messaging that demonizes Souther border immigration of all flavors...
Does the foreboding hype keep getting parroted simply because fear-mongering works?
Given how frequently some board participants parrot the xenophobic talking points of Tucker Carlson, it might be helpful to remember that Tucker's own lawyers have made clear that no "reasonable viewer" should ever be looking to him for factual enlightenment.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9
btw, for anyone who subscribes to the Q-level nutso and dangerous "great replacement theory" nonsense, I'm sorry you've gotten so caught up down the rabbit hole. Yes, we do have nuttiness on the extreme fringes of all political parties, but it's unfortunate and even deadly when those irrational fears infect the thinking of those who tend to be more moderate in their partisan views.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...t-theory-and-how-does-it-fuel-racist-violence
Back to more productive work now, since I realize none of this is going to change any minds. Especially the TLDR crowd just looking to provoke and score message board applause.
Go Noles!
The majority of people seek information to validate their preconceived biases. That's extremely evident in several threads here. It doesn't matter if it's the news, on TV, on the internet, etc. Critical thinking skills are severely lacking in today's society.
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