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America's Most Economically Segregated Cities - Tallahassee #1

Seminole

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May 29, 2001
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The tables above list the metros with the highest and lowest levels of overall economic segregation, while the tables below do the same for large metros (those with over one million people).

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This is probably in the same category as the 10 best places to live and the 10 Best places for retired people and the 10 best beaches. It all boils down to your criteria.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
So college towns have high economic segregation and towns that most people have never heard of have low levels of economic segregation. ,mtowns where everyone is broke would have a low level of economic segregation. Seems to me you'd want a high level so the opportunity to move up exists.
 
Originally posted by Seminole:
The tables above list the metros with the highest and lowest levels of overall economic segregation, while the tables below do the same for large metros (those with over one million people).
And your point is what? And you're posting this on TC for what reason?
 
I'm surprised......I've never thought of Tallahassee as a place with exuberant wealth or extreme poverty. I see that a lot in Miami and saw it in Philly when I lived up north.....but I don't buy it as far as Tallahassee is concerned.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by FSUFrank:
I'm surprised......I've never thought of Tallahassee as a place with exuberant wealth or extreme poverty. I see that a lot in Miami and saw it in Philly when I lived up north.....but I don't buy it as far as Tallahassee is concerned.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
You should drive though south Tallahassee some time.

And this is for the entire Tallahassee region. Get outside of town and you find a LOT of po' folks.

Tallahassee is the state capital and it has a major university. There some money in Tally and the city is very segregated. Hey, its my hometown and I'm proud of it, but it is what it is.

I live in Austin now too and it's very segregated as well. LOTS more money here (high tech industry), state capital, big university. Poors are pushed over into East Austin. Very segregated.

Funny about the least segregated places ... places like St. George, Utah and Coeur d'Laine (spelling!!!), Idaho. I've been to those places. There ain't no minorities of any shade in those towns!
 
It doesn't entirely surprise me. In a lot of metros, there is a large section of affluent people that live close in to the city center. Tampa and St. Pete both have wealthy neighborhoods right by downtown and these are among the most desirable spots in the metro area to live. I never saw that when I lived in Tallahassee. It seems that most of the wealthy people want to live way out past I-10 and not actually in near the city center. That to a degree will exacerbate some of the economic segregation.
 
#1 author claims to be a NYU grad. Which means daddy was a rich Manhattenite and parked him at the only school he could buy his way into.

#2 his twitter tag is @richard_florida which smells of Gator. Probably got kicked from UF over grades, and refer to #1.

#3 If you havent noticed, Marxist anti-everythings are targeting FSU. Thus, this 2012 hit piece on segregation gets brought up again today.

#4 We win, they lose. As usual.
 
Two income households with families want to move way out NE of Tally. Why? It's partially a feedback loop related to school choice. It's of course more complicated then that but it's one point. There's nothing FSU can do about it and only a little more that the city could do.

If you live in town, you probably live next to college renters that don't care that somebody's kids might be sleeping on a Thursday night. So then you gotta' deal with that noise pollution (it's really not so bad, but I can see how other people might want to avoid it altogether).

So you get people moving out NE and then the schools out NE are way better. So more people move out there. If you look at the school ratings, the good schools are NE of town and some on the Eastern part (far away from campus).

If you can afford it, why would you choose for your kid to go to a school where 30% of the kids pass the math FCAT as opposed to the school where 80% pass? You wouldn't. You choose for your kid to go to the "better" school. Now is the school really better? Hard to say, but no parent is going to fight those test scores. They're the only objective evidence you've got to work with.

Now the neighborhoods up NE sell better so people not in the kids or family business still move there because they see it as a better investment.


Anyway, the new dual-use, multistory construction around campus is a good thing. It could pull college students closer to campus and out of the neighborhoods that families used to occupy.

It's not like anyone is declaring class warfare. Individuals are making decisions that they perceive are best for their families. Who can blame them?
 
Two main reasons Tallahassee ranks so high -- first, as pointed out, it has a high number of college grads from having two universities. Second, Tallahassee has been very aggressive in expanding its city limits over the years. Thus, some of the wealthy neighborhoods that in other cities would be outside the city limits are within Tallahassee. Killearn is an example.
 
This is the result of Tallahassee's no growth and anti business attitudes that have guided its leadership over the last 30 years. What you have for jobs are 1) government and education and 2) low end services and retail.

Not much in between except for a rather large welfare state

It wont change until the attitudes of local pols change
 
* Don't do it again.

This post was edited on 2/27 1:08 PM by DFSNOLE
 
Interesting but strange that the authors didn't begin the article w/ "what does Tallahassee, Columbus and Austin have in common?' They are all small towns that house both state governments and major universities. Those two factors create and sustain high paying jobs in government and education that require a level of education that is far above the national average or typical resident who grew up in those towns. If you add in the presence of Ann Arbor and Tuscon, the economic influence of large major universities in historically smaller towns that were once typically built around non-university high paying jobs, the pattern is more clear.

These results don't provide any insight into segregation bias in these smaller communities. What they do is record the astonishing growth of pay in universities over the last 50 years. Just stop and think. In virtually every state in the country, the highest paid public employee in the state is the head football coach. The salary of the president of these universities compares favorably w/ the governor of the state and rivals that of the typical income for the local independent business owner. Janitors at the university make much more than the Merry Maids that clean the local bank.

Interesting data poorly mined, imo.
 
Originally posted by NJNOLES:
So college towns have high economic segregation and towns that most people have never heard of have low levels of economic segregation. ,mtowns where everyone is broke would have a low level of economic segregation. Seems to me you'd want a high level so the opportunity to move up exists.
Tallahassee, Trenton, and Tucson are not college towns. Take FSU and FAMU out of Tallahassee and it'll keep going. Take FU out of Gainesville and the town deteriorates immediately to a two stoplight town.
 
Noledog92, I agree this should not be posted here.



This post was edited on 2/27 1:11 PM by DFSNOLE
 
I don't really care where we rank but the overall premise, that tallahassee is very economically segregated, jibes with my time there.

Growing up on the north side and attending Rickards on the south side, you really see that it's a tale of two cities. It became even more starkly clear when they built Lawton chiles country club, I mean high school.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by Vangeezy:
Noledog92, I agree this should not be posted here.

I disagree that liberals alone ran Detroit into the ground. The fall of the auto industry did. If FSU, FAMU, and state government left Tallahassee, it would see the same fate, regardless of the city's party leadership.
Thank you!

Liberals didn't decide to build low quality gas guzzlers for 15 years while the Japanese and Germans built quality vehicles with some fuel economy. Detroit's slew of poor decisions and greed came from the execs in their automakers.

And yes it was made worse by some extremely crooked politicians but that place was already headed into the ground.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Wait, are you telling me the rich people live in different neighborhoods than the poor?
 
Originally posted by deadon2:

#2 his twitter tag is @richard_florida which smells of Gator. Probably got kicked from UF over grades, and refer to #1.
Nope.

Richard Florida has no affiliation (that I know of) with uf. He is one of the most famous and respected economic geography scholars in the world. Most of his work centers on demographic features of cities that predict high tech prosperity and high salaried job growth (Austin, Madison, SF, Boston), and why other cities fail to do so. Tallahassee is a poster child for a city that should do a LOT better with high tech growth -- it is one of the most diverse, well educated, and open (i.e., people there are not prejudiced) cities in the US, which are all predictors of high tech growth, but yet Tallahassee has floundered.

Dr. Florida is at U of Toronto. Check out his 2000-ish book "Rise of the Creative Class" - fascinating read. He was instrumental in the Knight Foundation, who has done a LOT of work in Tallahassee specifically (you can thank them for Cascades Park).

My guess is that the segregation of Tallahassee and the lack of a 24-hour downtown and vibrancy that comes with that is one of the things that explains why Tallahassee has had such a poor track record for business and high tech entrepreneurship.
 
Now is the school really better? Hard to say

My wife is a children's therapist, and has been in every school in the county (and many of those surrounding). She can assure there are qualitative differences between the administrations at different schools.
We chose to buy a house off Pedrick in no small part because of the schools in that neighborhood.
For some reason lots of cops live out here. Two black households I'm aware of on my block are both cops, although I think one is a trooper (vehicle in his driveway is unmarked).
I think the preponderance of minorities in my neighborhood are SE Asian.
 
This thread was violating board rules before it was shipped over here.

* I agree. It's close to being gone.

This post was edited on 2/27 1:12 PM by DFSNOLE
 
Originally posted by seminole72:
Interesting but strange that the authors didn't begin the article w/ "what does Tallahassee, Columbus and Austin have in common?' They are all small towns that house both state governments and major universities. Those two factors create and sustain high paying jobs in government and education that require a level of education that is far above the national average or typical resident who grew up in those towns. If you add in the presence of Ann Arbor and Tuscon, the economic influence of large major universities in historically smaller towns that were once typically built around non-university high paying jobs, the pattern is more clear.

These results don't provide any insight into segregation bias in these smaller communities. What they do is record the astonishing growth of pay in universities over the last 50 years. Just stop and think. In virtually every state in the country, the highest paid public employee in the state is the head football coach. The salary of the president of these universities compares favorably w/ the governor of the state and rivals that of the typical income for the local independent business owner. Janitors at the university make much more than the Merry Maids that clean the local bank.

Interesting data poorly mined, imo.
72, I'm surprised you'd present these three as small towns. Columbus is the largest city in Ohio, a fact not many know. Austin is larger than several of the largest cities in Florida.
Tally is a nice small city. Check the population tables and get back to us. The rest of your general observations are ok by me, though.

In general, when you have a big university and a state to provide a certain middle class economic base, there's no incentive to be a business friendly town.

Had Michael Dell not gone to UT and started Dell in his dorm room, Austin might be less than what it is, actually.
 
Originally posted by NJNOLES:
So college towns have high economic segregation and towns that most people have never heard of have low levels of economic segregation. ,mtowns where everyone is broke would have a low level of economic segregation. Seems to me you'd want a high level so the opportunity to move up exists.
gonna throw out a SWAG and say these are "bedroom communities" that are really suburbs of larger nearby cities. These are places where middle class folks of all races have fled to be farther away from the urban center, have an affordable little patch of green, etc.
 
Newer subdivisions have way better logistics and amenities, the picture is oblivious once you start house hunting.
 
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