German Plane Crash

[Fijimn]

It's starting look like the co-pilot took the plane down intentionally. They do not believe he was a member of a terrorist organization. The black box records the pilot saying he had to go to the bathroom, leaving, then the co-pilot taking the plane down. The pilot is banging on the door and pleading with the co-pilot and all you hear is the co-pilot breathing until the moment of impact....

link

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Sad story. I suppose there's a slight chance the copilot had a stroke or something happened that disoriented him, but that seems really unlikely.

I doubt there's anything that can be done to stop someone who's determined to kill themselves. Maybe the US protocol of having the FA step into the cockpit is all you need. But either way, I wonder why the need to take the plane and passengers down with you?

 

[DanC78]

Awful stuff. The guy must have been seriously messed in the head if this is true. Almost hard to believe someone do such a thing without any kind of signs beforehand.


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[rhurner]

Friend of mine is a former A-7 jock and currently one of 100 787 Dreamliner pilots. He told me that Europe has extremely lax standards as far as cockpit security/protocols. It's sad that this happened for whatever reason but maybe they'll take it more seriously now.

Can you imagine being a pax watching the pilot bang on the cockpit as your airplane augers in?

 

[seminole97]

Mental illness isn't logical.
That's why my wife deals with those people and I prefer to deal with machines.

 

[timenole]

Multiple sites say "Prosecutor: Cockpit was..."

I find it weird that a prosecutor is making state men's already.
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[timenole]

*statement dang spell check
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[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Originally posted by timenole:
Multiple sites say "Prosecutor: Cockpit was..."

I find it weird that a prosecutor is making state men's already.
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Yeah, I was a bit surprised he is talking so much and in such absolutes. Europe's a bit
different than us in that regard though. They open up criminal investigations
into just about everything over there. The public prosecutors have a lot of
authority and get involved in a lot of stuff that would be handled
differently here.

 

[Spearchucker87]

Originally posted by DanC78:
Awful stuff. The guy must have been seriously messed in the head if this is true. Almost hard to believe someone do such a thing without any kind of signs beforehand.




Posted from Rivals Mobile

See Silk Air 187 back in 1997 and Egypt Air 990 back in 1999.

The former was a little tricky to reconstruct as the pilot disabled the circuit breakers that controlled the cockpit voice recorder. The plane was subsequently flown right into the ground. He could have incapacitated or overpowered the copilot. He could have simply lured him away ("go see if there's something funny looking about the left wing....")

The latter incident was a huge political hot potato and I'm not sure whether the NTSB ever completely admitted it was a suicide.......the Egyptian govt was saying equipment failure. But I remember reading the CVR transcript and the correlation with the FDR control inputs, and there was 100% no doubt. As soon as the NTSB translated that CVR, they knew within minutes that the co-pilot had decided to fly that plane right down into the ocean.

.
This post was edited on 3/26 12:01 PM by Spearchucker87

 

[goldmom]

Originally posted by timenole:
*statement dang spell check

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But it is possible that "prosecutor" is used to describe something that we'd use another term to define, as it relates to an investigation.

I'm sure that pilot's home is being tossed at the moment along with every single item of his life - computer, etc.

 

[F4Gary]

Read on another forum that this was his last flight before being fired. Sex offender. Recently busted for exposing himself to a woman.

Reminds me of the FedEx attempted suicide.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Originally posted by F4Gary:
Read on another forum that this was his last flight before being fired. Sex offender. Recently busted for exposing himself to a woman.

Reminds me of the FedEx attempted suicide.

Wow... If that's true, why on earth would they have let him keep flying after being told he was terminated?

 

[RTM58]

Seems odd they would let him fly after that. Seems like a text book suicide story - humiliated, fired, probably no good job prospects. WTH

 

[Fijimn]

That's why you always fire someone on a Friday. Did they not watch Office Space.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Originally posted by Fijimn:

That's why you always fire someone on a Friday. Did they not watch Office Space.

Seems really strange that they might give him the equivalent of a 2-week notice before firing him from a job that includes so much trust and responsibility (and possibility of killing 150 people). Got to think that you ground a pilot when you're even considering the possibility of firing him, then do what you're going to do, rather than letting him in on it while he can still do something terrible.

 

[F4Gary]

Gonna have to wait for the details.

 

[cmanole]

How long before they install auto pilot overrides in these planes to prevent this sort of thing?

 

[F4Gary]

Originally posted by cmanole:
How long before they install auto pilot overrides in these planes to prevent this sort of thing?

What's to stop this guy from disabling an autopilot override?

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by F4Gary:

Originally posted by cmanole:
How long before they install auto pilot overrides in these planes to prevent this sort of thing?

What's to stop this guy from disabling an autopilot override?

No, get something beamed in from satellite that overrides whatever is going on in the plane. Push a button and say land at xyz airport...

 

[F4Gary]

Originally posted by cmanole:

Originally posted by F4Gary:

Originally posted by cmanole:
How long before they install auto pilot overrides in these planes to prevent this sort of thing?

What's to stop this guy from disabling an autopilot override?

No, get something beamed in from satellite that overrides whatever is going on in the plane. Push a button and say land at xyz airport...

Maybe in the movies...

 

[timenole]

Why not? Maybe to override the pilot the actions have to be initiated from three different locations to avoid remote hijak?

Think outside of the box F4
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[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The problem was this was a European flight.

United's flight attendants could've busted through the door in about 3 seconds.

 

[F4Gary]

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:
The problem was this was a European flight.

United's flight attendants could've busted through the door in about 3 seconds.

On United, there would have been a flight attendant in the cockpit already when the Captain left to pee.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Originally posted by F4Gary:

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:
The problem was this was a European flight.

United's flight attendants could've busted through the door in about 3 seconds.

On United, there would have been a flight attendant in the cockpit already when the Captain left to pee.

Yeah, they also string wires across the aisle and move the beverage cart to block access to the galley area. Then stand behind it glaring down the aisle.

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by timenole:
Why not? Maybe to override the pilot the actions have to be initiated from three different locations to avoid remote hijak?

Think outside of the box F4
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Seriously. A (rich as hell) geek working at Apple could probably program this in an afternoon...

 

[AdNole]

And another afternoon for a hacker to get in and take a plane down.

Originally posted by cmanole:

Originally posted by timenole:
Why not? Maybe to override the pilot the actions have to be initiated from three different locations to avoid remote hijak?

Think outside of the box F4
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Seriously. A (rich as hell) geek working at Apple could probably program this in an afternoon...

 

[DanC78]

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:

Originally posted by F4Gary:

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:
The problem was this was a European flight.

United's flight attendants could've busted through the door in about 3 seconds.

On United, there would have been a flight attendant in the cockpit already when the Captain left to pee.

Yeah, they also string wires across the aisle and move the beverage cart to block access to the galley area. Then stand behind it glaring down the aisle.

I didn't know United had all these precautions in place....good to know.

Do you know if other airlines do anything similar...specifically... SW, AA, and Delta??

 

[Fijimn]

I believe that it is a FAA rule. However, my SW flights are, generally, so short, I have never seen it occur.

 

[FSUdawg]

Originally posted by DanC78:

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:

Originally posted by F4Gary:

Originally posted by Formerly Rockymtnole:
The problem was this was a European flight.

United's flight attendants could've busted through the door in about 3 seconds.

On United, there would have been a flight attendant in the cockpit already when the Captain left to pee.

Yeah, they also string wires across the aisle and move the beverage cart to block access to the galley area. Then stand behind it glaring down the aisle.

I didn't know United had all these precautions in place....good to know.

Do you know if other airlines do anything similar...specifically... SW, AA, and Delta??

I believe these are FAA rules.

As to the point of the United flight attendants busting through the door, from my experience most United flight attendants cannot fit through the door.

 

[cmanole]

Originally posted by FSUdawg:

As to the point of the United flight attendants busting through the door, from my experience most United flight attendants cannot fit through the door.

 

[CobNole]

Originally posted by F4Gary:
Read on another forum that this was his last flight before being fired. Sex offender. Recently busted for exposing himself to a woman.

Reminds me of the FedEx attempted suicide.

Who in their right mind would give the keys to an Airbus to someone who had been fired? Good grief if that is true those in management are morons.

 

[F4Gary]

Originally posted by CobNole:

Originally posted by F4Gary:
Read on another forum that this was his last flight before being fired. Sex offender. Recently busted for exposing himself to a woman.

Reminds me of the FedEx attempted suicide.

Who in their right mind would give the keys to an Airbus to someone who had been fired? Good grief if that is true those in management are morons.

Yea, and I haven't seen this anywhere else.

But I did see this, he converted to Muslim during his 6 month break?



Hmmmm

 

[SeaPA]

Originally posted by seminole97:
Mental illness isn't logical.
That's why my wife deals with those people and I prefer to deal with machines.

I'd like to read your wife's case study on why you refer to yourself as "those people."

 

[tommynole3476]

Only thing I heard on the radio today was that he took an 18 month break from their training program due to a severe bout of depression.

 

[Nole-4-Life]

Originally posted by cmanole:
How long before they install auto pilot overrides in these planes to prevent this sort of thing?

My wife and I were discussing this last night. What are the chances of installing some system where ATC could fly the plane like a drone and disable the cockpit controls in the event of medical emergency or terrorism?

I know the rollout would be expensive, but man it would be worth it. Is it even possible??

 

[OrlandNole]

Originally posted by Nole-4-Life:

Originally posted by cmanole:
How long before they install auto pilot overrides in these planes to prevent this sort of thing?

My wife and I were discussing this last night. What are the chances of installing some system where ATC could fly the plane like a drone and disable the cockpit controls in the event of medical emergency or terrorism?

I know the rollout would be expensive, but man it would be worth it. Is it even possible??

When you look at the total number of aircraft in operation versus the actual number of incidents involving a medical emergency or terrorism, I doubt the cost-benefit analysis would work in its favor.

 

[tommynole3476]

Welp, looks like they found a note from his doctor telling him he should take a long medical leave.

link

 

[cmanole]

Great. He was suffering from depression and probably on antidepressants which can make some people suicidal...

 

[tommynole3476]

I'm sure that Germany has similar protections of one's health records and information as the US does; but dang, is there nothing a doctor can do other than write him a freaking note? He flies planes full of people and has a history of severe depression which is almost always includes suicidal behavior or thoughts.

 

[F4Gary]

As a US commercial pilot, if I go to the doctor and he prescribes me a drug that I know I can't fly with in my system, it is my job to tell my airline I can't fly. Even if that doctor is a flight surgeon (Aviation Physiology), he doesn't contact the FAA. That again is my job as a pilot.

Now, if I go get my 6 month flight physical and something on that causes me to be grounded, the FAA is informed of that and I'm not issued a new physical until I get well. Even then, the FAA does not inform my company. That also is on me to tell them I don't have a current physical and can't fly.

This post was edited on 3/27 7:44 PM by F4Gary