Serial- The Case Against Adnan Syed (podcast)

[DanC78]

Anyone listen to this series?

I was in the car yesterday for 6+ hours and started listening. I was hooked, what a great series. I'm on episode 10 now, I hope there is some closure when it's all done (don't spoil for me if you have heard all the way through.)

http://serialpodcast.org/

 

[RunRonnieRun]

Were you in a Delorean? Because you've definitely traveled to the past.

 

[BCNoles16]

Yes. It's pretty awesome. I can't wait for seasons 2 and 3 coming up.

 

[DanC78]

Were you in a Delorean? Because you've definitely traveled to the past.

No Delorean, but I was told about it right before we hit the road. I had never heard about the series. Just assumed it was only a year or so old.

just looked up, it's less than an year old....not that old if you ask me.

 

[RunRonnieRun]

No Delorean, but I was told about it right before we hit the road. I had never heard about the series. Just assumed it was only a year or so old.

just looked up, it's less than an year old....not that old if you ask me.

No, but it was a huge pop culture phenomenon. I was a late adopter back in November / December of last year.

 

[DanC78]

No, but it was a huge pop culture phenomenon. I was a late adopter back in November / December of last year.

you think he's innocent or guilty?

I'm having a hard time believing he that he doesn't remember anything about where he was during the day of the murder?E Especially being that he loaned Jay his car and phone to go buy a gift for Stephanie (jay's gf).

I was also a little shocked by Adnan's lack of enthusiasm when Sarah (host of the show) told him that Aisa remembers seeing him and chatting with him at the library. Sarah also said that Aisa mentioned to her that Adnan and here kept in touch via letters after he was sentenced and throughout the trial. Wouldn't Asia have told Adnan that she was with him during the murder time in those letters??? idk, maybe I'm getting something messed up on that one.

 

[YogiNole]

you think he's innocent or guilty?

I'm having a hard time believing he that he doesn't remember anything about where he was during the day of the murder?E Especially being that he loaned Jay his car and phone to go buy a gift for Stephanie (jay's gf).

I was also a little shocked by Adnan's lack of enthusiasm when Sarah (host of the show) told him that Aisa remembers seeing him and chatting with him at the library. Sarah also said that Aisa mentioned to her that Adnan and here kept in touch via letters after he was sentenced and throughout the trial. Wouldn't Asia have told Adnan that she was with him during the murder time in those letters??? idk, maybe I'm getting something messed up on that one.

Guilty or not, the defense lawyer did a shoddy job.

 

[DanC78]

Guilty or not, the defense lawyer did a shoddy job.

No doubt about it! I couldn't say without a reasonable doubt that he was guilty after hearing this podcast. He should have been acquitted.

 

[BCNoles16]

I have been in the camp thinking he didn't do it. But then since Jay helped dig the hole then he had to have done it. I don't think the serial killer is an option since Jay was definitely involved. There's no way to make that connection. But then again how did Jay know where Hae's car was if he never was in her car. So if he knew where the car was and he didn't drive it then who helped him? Adnan? Or was it Jenn P? Or who?

 

[Banditking]

I think jay is the obvious potential alternative killer. He knows all of the crime details and has no alibi.

 

[DanC78]

I have been in the camp thinking he didn't do it. But then since Jay helped dig the hole then he had to have done it. I don't think the serial killer is an option since Jay was definitely involved. There's no way to make that connection. But then again how did Jay know where Hae's car was if he never was in her car. So if he knew where the car was and he didn't drive it then who helped him? Adnan? Or was it Jenn P? Or who?

Great point about the car. I'm not 100% sure about the car situation.

Is Jay saying that he and Adnan drove Hae's car to a secluded place after the murder? And by him proving that he knew where the car was, proves that his story is accurate. (to some degree at least)

And Jen is a great point as well. Jay could be saying the story just as it happened except saying Adnan instead of Jen? But why would Jay be so loyal to Jen?

 

[BCNoles16]

Great point about the car. I'm not 100% sure about the car situation.

Is Jay saying that he and Adnan drove Hae's car to a secluded place after the murder? And by him proving that he knew where the car was, proves that his story is accurate. (to some degree at least)

And Jen is a great point as well. Jay could be saying the story just as it happened except saying Adnan instead of Jen? But why would Jay be so loyal to Jen?

Jenn was Jay's best friend. He would want to protect his best friend for sure. I think it's funny how Jay and Jenn were together when Jay destroyed evidence, they both lied to the police, Jay lied to the police about where he met up with Adnan because he thought Best Buy might have cameras (maybe to protect Jenn if she was involved), and there were 6 phone calls to Jenn that day. Why did he keep calling her? I don't know what happened obviously, but I don't think there was near enough evidence to convict. Isn't it crazy how many things Jay did and how many lies he told and they still trust his side of the story???

 

[DanC78]

Jenn was Jay's best friend. He would want to protect his best friend for sure. I think it's funny how Jay and Jenn were together when Jay destroyed evidence, they both lied to the police, Jay lied to the police about where he met up with Adnan because he thought Best Buy might have cameras (maybe to protect Jenn if she was involved), and there were 6 phone calls to Jenn that day. Why did he keep calling her? I don't know what happened obviously, but I don't think there was near enough evidence to convict. Isn't it crazy how many things Jay did and how many lies he told and they still trust his side of the story???

Oh yeah...they prosecutor referred Jay over to an attorney so that they could work together on cutting Jay a deal. That part blew me away. There was also another time that the prosecutor cut Jay off (might have been Jen) when he about said something that could have effected his credibility.So shady!

 

[BCNoles16]

Oh yeah...they prosecutor referred Jay over to an attorney so that they could work together on cutting Jay a deal. That part blew me away. There was also another time that the prosecutor cut Jay off (might have been Jen) when he about said something that could have effected his credibility.So shady!

I think season 2 is supposed to remain with this case. So we will see.

 

[CaliNoleFan6]

Without giving too much away, I will only say this: What you think you know, you don't and while Sarah did a good job with Serial, there is a whole new piece of the puzzle that completely destroys the states case and actually proves Adnan is innocent and had nothing to do with HML murder. After you listen to Serial, you need to listen to the Undisclosed Podcast. This podcast is done by Rabia (the one who brought the case to Sarah), Collin Miller and Susan Simpson. They are all lawyers and they actually dig into the case in a different way (evidence based) that will completely blow your mind.

I was on the fence after listening to Serial to be honest. While I wasn't quite ready to say Adnan was completely innocent, what I did know was that regardless - the state didn't have enough to convict him and his lawyer was a complete idiot. Once Undisclosed came out, it brought a whole new light to the case and once you listen to it, I'm pretty sure it will make things a lot clearer for you.

Also, Season 2 and 3 of Serial will have nothing to do with Adnan. They are going to be completely different cases, people etc.

 

[DanC78]

Without giving too much away, I will only say this: What you think you know, you don't and while Sarah did a good job with Serial, there is a whole new piece of the puzzle that completely destroys the states case and actually proves Adnan is innocent and had nothing to do with HML murder. After you listen to Serial, you need to listen to the Undisclosed Podcast. This podcast is done by Rabia (the one who brought the case to Sarah), Collin Miller and Susan Simpson. They are all lawyers and they actually dig into the case in a different way (evidence based) that will completely blow your mind.

I was on the fence after listening to Serial to be honest. While I wasn't quite ready to say Adnan was completely innocent, what I did know was that regardless - the state didn't have enough to convict him and his lawyer was a complete idiot. Once Undisclosed came out, it brought a whole new light to the case and once you listen to it, I'm pretty sure it will make things a lot clearer for you.

Also, Season 2 and 3 of Serial will have nothing to do with Adnan. They are going to be completely different cases, people etc.

I can't wait to listen!

 

[BCNoles16]

Without giving too much away, I will only say this: What you think you know, you don't and while Sarah did a good job with Serial, there is a whole new piece of the puzzle that completely destroys the states case and actually proves Adnan is innocent and had nothing to do with HML murder. After you listen to Serial, you need to listen to the Undisclosed Podcast. This podcast is done by Rabia (the one who brought the case to Sarah), Collin Miller and Susan Simpson. They are all lawyers and they actually dig into the case in a different way (evidence based) that will completely blow your mind.

I was on the fence after listening to Serial to be honest. While I wasn't quite ready to say Adnan was completely innocent, what I did know was that regardless - the state didn't have enough to convict him and his lawyer was a complete idiot. Once Undisclosed came out, it brought a whole new light to the case and once you listen to it, I'm pretty sure it will make things a lot clearer for you.

Also, Season 2 and 3 of Serial will have nothing to do with Adnan. They are going to be completely different cases, people etc.

Thank you for posting this. I had no idea about this other podcast. I can't wait to listen to it!!!

 

[OrlandNole]

OK, I'm late to the game as well. I just downloaded and it kept me and my family thoroughly entertained throughout the drive back from Florida yesterday. Props to DanC for bringing it to my attention.

After listening to the podcast, one thing is clear: no one is telling the whole truth. I lean on the side that Adnan did it, but not beyond a reasonable doubt. He should have been acquitted.

I'll have to check out Undisclosed.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Haven't listened to Undisclosed but just downloaded it.

My thoughts after listening to Serial:
1 - Adnan should have been found not guilty
2 - If I had to bet, I'd say he probably did it (but probably isn't enough to put someone in jail

I hope his new legal team is able to get him freed from this unjust imprisonment.
Also hope Undisclosed further exonerates him.

 

[TexaNole]

My thoughts after listening to Serial:
1 - Adnan should have been found not guilty
2 - If I had to bet, I'd say he probably did it (but probably isn't enough to put someone in jail

That's where I was after Serial. Two episodes into Undisclosed, I'm now at, "This kid got hosed and the cops should be fired for incompetence (at least)."

 

[DanC78]

That's where I was after Serial. Two episodes into Undisclosed, I'm now at, "This kid got hosed and the cops should be fired for incompetence (at least)."

I listened to the first two of undisclosed. I see it as painting even a larger picture of how terrible the cops did with their investigation....but still not sold as Adnan not being a suspect.

And if Adnan is innocent, Jay is the biggest scum of the earth.

But the testimony on Serial of the video manager who Jay worked with really has me thinking that Jay wasn't lying. Who would Jay have been scared of that night??? Jessica?

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Still haven't started Undisclosed but Sarah's conundrum towards the end of Serial rings true:

Adnan is either a sociopath or an extremely unlucky person. However, even if it's the former (which I hope is untrue) he still should have been found not guilty.

 

[Nole Lou]

There's two issues here...is he innocent, or should he have been found innocent?

I agree with most...from what we know of trials, it's rather hard to believe he was convicted, or that he should have been convicted. Probably goes to show you that the trials we are mostly familiar with are the ones that the legal teams are under public scrutiny, and the defendants have access to high quality defenses. It probably conditions us to think that questionable convictions happen a lot less often than they actually do.

However...I think he is guilty. I want to listen to undisclosed...but someone give me a spoiler...how do they explain Jay knowing where the car was?

That's all I need to know, because until that is even plausibly explained (Serial made almost no effort to do so, just brushed it aside), that means:

A) Adnan killed her and Jay helped after the fact, basically the same as the official record

B) Adnan and Jay killed her together, meaning Adnan should be in jail, and Jay should be as well.

C) Jay killed her, and Adnan was an accessory after the fact, basically in reverse of the official story, making Adnan a liar if not a murderer.

If it's C, why did Adnan not roll over on Jay, and CONTINUE to not roll over on Jay to this day?

Just tell me how Jay knew where her car was if Adnan is truthful and innocent. I just want that explained.

 

[Nole Lou]

Still haven't started Undisclosed but Sarah's conundrum towards the end of Serial rings true:

Adnan is either a sociopath or an extremely unlucky person. However, even if it's the former (which I hope is untrue) he still should have been found not guilty.

He could be both.

But the problem I have is that the drama and pull of the whole thing is whether he is innocent. I don't see mass appeal for an endeavor with the mission statement of getting guilty people out of jail.

 

[DanC78]

There's two issues here...is he innocent, or should he have been found innocent?

I agree with most...from what we know of trials, it's rather hard to believe he was convicted, or that he should have been convicted. Probably goes to show you that the trials we are mostly familiar with are the ones that the legal teams are under public scrutiny, and the defendants have access to high quality defenses. It probably conditions us to think that questionable convictions happen a lot less often than they actually do.

However...I think he is guilty. I want to listen to undisclosed...but someone give me a spoiler...how do they explain Jay knowing where the car was?

That's all I need to know, because until that is even plausibly explained (Serial made almost no effort to do so, just brushed it aside), that means:

A) Adnan killed her and Jay helped after the fact, basically the same as the official record

B) Adnan and Jay killed her together, meaning Adnan should be in jail, and Jay should be as well.

C) Jay killed her, and Adnan was an accessory after the fact, basically in reverse of the official story, making Adnan a liar if not a murderer.

If it's C, why did Adnan not roll over on Jay, and CONTINUE to not roll over on Jay to this day?

Just tell me how Jay knew where her car was if Adnan is truthful and innocent. I just want that explained.

Why not D) Jay and Jessica killed her and pinned it on Adnan

 

[TexaNole]

Just tell me how Jay knew where her car was if Adnan is truthful and innocent. I just want that explained.

Just go to Episode 3 of Undisclosed and you'll get your answer: He didn't. The cops prompted him. Repeatedly.

I am of the opinion that Jay was involved but his role was to cover for someone else and pin the crime on Adnan. The tone of his continual lies/misstatements was one of someone trying to remember a script, not someone with hazy memory or someone trying to ad lib his way out of trouble.

 

[Nole Lou]

Just go to Episode 3 of Undisclosed and you'll get your answer: He didn't. The cops prompted him. Repeatedly.

I am of the opinion that Jay was involved but his role was to cover for someone else and pin the crime on Adnan. The tone of his continual lies/misstatements was one of someone trying to remember a script, not someone with hazy memory or someone trying to ad lib his way out of trouble.

Ok, I'll go to that episode. Serial never addressed that, to the point of avoidance. Serial never even suggested a solution to that.

If that's legit, if Jay didn't know where the car was (why didn't Serial "find" this?) then that opens the case considerably in my mind.

My feeling is that Adnan did it, but with a lot more involvement from Jay than Jay has admitted to. Either Jay was present, or part of the planning, or helped deliver Hae, or helped kill her, or something else that should have made him liable for much more serious jail time.

But I still think the evidence was not strong enough to have convicted Adnan. I don't think he can prove his innocence, but he doesn't have to.

 

[TexaNole]

Ok, I'll go to that episode. Serial never addressed that, to the point of avoidance. Serial never even suggested a solution to that.

If that's legit, if Jay didn't know where the car was (why didn't Serial "find" this?) then that opens the case considerably in my mind.

My feeling is that Adnan did it, but with a lot more involvement from Jay than Jay has admitted to. Either Jay was present, or part of the planning, or helped deliver Hae, or helped kill her, or something else that should have made him liable for much more serious jail time.

But I still think the evidence was not strong enough to have convicted Adnan. I don't think he can prove his innocence, but he doesn't have to.

I've gone from "guilty but should've been acquitted" to "actually not guilty" mostly because the state's narrative - already based on the wishy-washy, all-over-the-place Jay - is completely shot to hell. It may be the case that Adnan did it, but it definitely is not the case that he did it as they've laid out.

 

[BCNoles16]

Ok, I'll go to that episode. Serial never addressed that, to the point of avoidance. Serial never even suggested a solution to that.

If that's legit, if Jay didn't know where the car was (why didn't Serial "find" this?) then that opens the case considerably in my mind.

My feeling is that Adnan did it, but with a lot more involvement from Jay than Jay has admitted to. Either Jay was present, or part of the planning, or helped deliver Hae, or helped kill her, or something else that should have made him liable for much more serious jail time.

But I still think the evidence was not strong enough to have convicted Adnan. I don't think he can prove his innocence, but he doesn't have to.

IMO Serial was made to tell the story rather than speculate or solve the mystery. While Undisclosed was made to analyze the evidence and speculate.

 

[PrimeTimeNole]

IMO Serial was made to tell the story rather than speculate or solve the mystery. While Undisclosed was made to analyze the evidence and speculate.

It's important to note that Undisclosed is far from being unbiased. Rabia Chaudry is a long time family friend of Adnan's and the podcast itself is backed by Adnan's defense fund

 

[TexaNole]

It's important to note that Undisclosed is far from being unbiased. Rabia Chaudry is a long time family friend of Adnan's and the podcast itself is backed by Adnan's defense fund

Well, it backs the defense fund, but yeah, it's biased. It's really just a much more competent defense than he had the first time.

 

[Phinhead]

Were you in a Delorean? Because you've definitely traveled to the past.

I just started season 1 yesterday. I'm always behind.

 

[CaliNoleFan6]

Glad to see this active again. A few things to consider:

1. State's theory was that Jay was telling the truth - a combination of the 9 different story's he told. That means that the states position is that HML was killed sometime between 2:30 - 2:45pm
2. Asia testified that she was with Adnan in the library at that time. Also, his track coach testified that he was actually at practice that day (Undisclosed dug this up)
3. State says HML was dead in the trunk, on her side until Adnan and Jay buried her.
4. Medical evidence shows fixed frontal lividity. What this means is that HML was dead and laying flat and face down for a period of 8-10 hours. If she was on her side in the trunk (as the state says), the lividity would have been on her side.
5. Don't focus on the cell phone "evidence".

I dont want to spoil the fun for people who are still catching up, but I will say that Serial is not the best way to gauge a solid opinion one way or the other. Its great for generating theories, but even those you will find out are based on information that is not true or incomplete. After Serial, you need to listen to Undisclosed Season 1 and that will fill in all the blanks and answer all of your questions. While Rabia is a family friend, Susan and Colin are lawyers who are excellent at research (Tap, Tap, Tap) and had it not been for Susan and her discovery in relation to the cell phone records, things would be a lot different in the present. For even more info on the case, you can also listen to "Truth and Justice" podcast, Season 1 (used to be called Serial Dynasty) and Bob Ruff does a great job of uncovering even more problems with the state, Kevin Urick etc.

 

[Phinhead]

Just wrapped Serial season 1, and with only that knowledge, I think Jay and Adnan Syed are lying.

 

[CaliNoleFan6]

Just wrapped Serial season 1, and with only that knowledge, I think Jay and Adnan Syed are lying.

I think that's common. Let me know what you think after listening to Undisclosed.

 

[DanC78]

Isn't this currently being retried?

 

[runkpanole]

Isn't this currently being retried?

I do believe a retrial has been ordered.

 

[Phinhead]

I burned through most of Undisclosed. I definitely think that he should not have been found guilty in court, and there are very questioning aspects of the police work, but it's such a cheerleading show I want to fast forward it often.

I only want the science. The autopsy was the most damning, but they are dealing with so little evidence at this point.

He absolutely walks at the retrial, but I'm not convinced he is completely innocent.

 

[CaliNoleFan6]

I burned through most of Undisclosed. I definitely think that he should not have been found guilty in court, and there are very questioning aspects of the police work, but it's such a cheerleading show I want to fast forward it often.

I only want the science. The autopsy was the most damning, but they are dealing with so little evidence at this point.

He absolutely walks at the retrial, but I'm not convinced he is completely innocent.

And then there is the cell phone, which is what was primarily used to find him guilty...

**SPOILER**




When the AT&T people sent the fax with the cell phone logs, the cover sheet stated that only outgoing calls could be used for reliable location status. This is/was huge for a few reasons - 1. If Abe Waranowitz would have known about the fax cover sheet, he never would have testified for the state. 2. Adnan's lawyer at the time HAD this sheet and completely missed its relevance. This was actually the basis for Welch to grant a new trial. The Asia alibi wasn't even needed because the state contradicted themselves with their own timeline. Welch also stated that the state had to stick to their original timeline (Thiru was trying to change it to fit their theory). Recently (within the last 2 weeks), Thiru "resigned", but was basically asked to leave or be fired and the COSA is currently reviewing the states appeal to Welch's decision. More than likely it will be declined and the state will have to either fully exonerate him or take it to trial (which they will lose). They may offer an Alfred Plea to Adnan, but he wont take it. His legal defense team was boosted with additional firms joining Justin Brown and they have plenty of funds. Also, there are things that the defense knows, but have yet to reveal that Rabia has stated "will blow peoples minds".

I personally think it was Don who did it.

 

[TexaNole]

**SPOILER**

I personally think it was Don who did it.

I'm not sure about Don specifically, but I think Hae's missing pager - whose records they never bothered to look into - is the key to the thing. Maybe Don, maybe something to do with drugs, but it's the connection between the victim and the perpetrator, which is why it went missing.