Winston's 2015 Season vs. Other No.1 Picks

[anon_vKoAeFUPShc82MGE]

Wonder what all the Jameis haters think now that the season is over. So much for Mariotta being the better choice (considering all things being equal both teams sucked to begin with after 2014). One team has got worse and is drafting first in this year's draft, and the other has improved and shows some real signs of being successful in years to come. I live in Tennessee, and next time a Titans or JW hater type wants to talk I have all the ammo I need to put them in their place. Take that Jameis Winston haters!!!

http://www.buccaneers.com/news/arti...o1-Picks/fc5e52e9-a02c-4fb7-b803-4bc72e6952c1

 

[The WarNole]

Wonder what all the Jameis haters think now that the season is over. So much for Mariotta being the better choice (considering all things being equal both teams sucked to begin with after 2014). One team has got worse and is drafting first in this year's draft, and the other has improved and shows some real signs of being successful in years to come. I live in Tennessee, and next time a Titans or JW hater type wants to talk I have all the ammo I need to put them in their place. Take that Jameis Winston haters!!!

http://www.buccaneers.com/news/arti...o1-Picks/fc5e52e9-a02c-4fb7-b803-4bc72e6952c1

Agree completely with your argument.

Tampa will be beastly if they can shore up their defense. They just need a WR on offense too.

 

[NYNole40]

Agree completely with your argument.

Tampa will be beastly if they can shore up their defense. They just need a WR on offense too.

and an OC

 

[QuaZ2002]

and an OC

Koetter did a great job with Jameis.

 

[seminole2374]

and an OC

You don't like Koetter as his OC? Thought he called a few rough games, but JW loves him.

 

[mblomstrom]

OL is horrible. Can't even imagine what JW would have done with real protection

 

[JTnole24]

Koetter is definitely not the problem, but he may be gone to Philly as HC. Koetter and Jameis think the world of each other. Koetter gushes about how polished and smart Jameis is and Jameis thinks Koetter puts him in position to be successful. Jameis needs a more cohesive line, some receivers that catch the ball more than 50% of the time and a defense.

 

[PopsNole]

Mariota was pretty good this year as well and his offense was worse than what Jameis had a lot of the time. Both looked very good for rookies. No need to crap on Mariota although I will say his constant injuries should scare Titan fans.

 

[NYNole40]

You don't like Koetter as his OC? Thought he called a few rough games, but JW loves him.

I think Koetter was way too conservative with him. That was necessary early in the season but as the season went on, it was clear that Jameis had adjusted to the speed and nature of the game in the NFL and should have been passing more early in games and not just when they got behind.

Those few rough games must have been the ones I saw. Had no love for him in the few games I was able to watch the whole game.

 

[NYNole40]

Mariota was pretty good this year as well and his offense was worse than what Jameis had a lot of the time. Both looked very good for rookies. No need to crap on Mariota although I will say his constant injuries should scare Titan fans.

Werent the Titans considered the better team early in the year? Perhaps Mariota's offense was worse because HE is worse.

 

[Calif_Nole]

If Evans catches half the balls he dropped JW would be #1 in yardage.

 

[PopsNole]

Werent the Titans considered the better team early in the year? Perhaps Mariota's offense was worse because HE is worse.

They were considered better because they throttled the Bucs in game 1. Look at their roster. They have worse receivers, running backs and line. They were much better with Mariota playing. I followed them pretty closely just for comparison sake with Winston. Both were very good this year.

I think Jameis showed that he has a much higher ceiling and his leadership was amazing. My point was we don't need to pretend Mariota sucked this year. He did very well for a rookie outside of his injuries and was much better than anyone anticipated. Both are allowed to be good.

 

[JTnole24]

Werent the Titans considered the better team early in the year? Perhaps Mariota's offense was worse because HE is worse.

Also, as bad as our line was, Tennessee's was HORRENDOUS. I think Mariota was sacked way more than Jameis. According to SportingCharts.com, Tennessee was last in the league surrendering 54 QB sacks (not all MM) and Tampa only gave up 27. Now some of those may be because MM was hesitant, but to be fair in the argument, MM didnt go into a great position either. I think he did well considering his placement and his injuries. I think its crazy that people feel the need to put MM down to compare Jameis and make him look better, not saying you did that specifically, but just people in general.

 

[seminole2374]

Mariota was pretty good this year as well and his offense was worse than what Jameis had a lot of the time. Both looked very good for rookies. No need to crap on Mariota although I will say his constant injuries should scare Titan fans.

I don't think Mariota's offense was worse. He didn't have to deal with all the issues JW faced. JW had 2 rookies starting on the OL, had 3 of 4 WR targets out for significant parts of the year, had OL injury issues almost all year, had the 4th worst WR corps for drops and had to rely on very young and inexperienced WR corps. What Winston did with everything he faced is pretty remarkable.

 

[Garnet Hammer]

Sorry - but gonna have to dump on Mariotta.

Mariotta revealed himself to be very limited in some pretty critical ways.

(1) He plays almost exclusively out of the shotgun which kills the traditional running game.
(2) He cannot throw a deep ball to save the human race.
(3) His intermediate passing outside the tackle box is also a horror show.
(4) Injury prone. Just like in college.

Mariotta has elite accuracy on short throws and is a good intermediate passer on throws in tackle box.

Good defenses/defensive coordinators have already figured this out. Unless Mariotta can fix these hard to fix issues (injury issue isn't fixable), teams will increasingly scheme to take away what he can do. Mobile QBs like Mariotta (and RG3, Vick, Kapernick, etc) actually have their best years early as NFL grasps their weaknesses. Then - ruh roh.

***

It is just plain nonsense to say that these specific and fact based criticisms of Mariotta's play are only being made because I am a Winston fan.

It's a really unhelpful fact that Mariotta cannot do a drop back pass. And no its not clear why someone would assume he's going to develop that skill.

Mariotta had some nice games against bad Ds who were too stubborn about how they play defense (Bucs - Cover 2 and Jags - Cover 3) to scheme against Mariotta and take advantage of his bobo weaknesses.

Winston threw some bad balls. That's gonna happen. But as Winston gets a better receiving crew his numbers are going to shoot even higher. Cause Winston can make all the throws in a pro style system.

 

[PopsNole]

I don't think Mariota's offense was worse. He didn't have to deal with all the issues JW faced. JW had 2 rookies starting on the OL, had 3 of 4 WR targets out for significant parts of the year, had OL injury issues almost all year, had the 4th worst WR corps for drops and had to rely on very young and inexperienced WR corps. What Winston did with everything he faced is pretty remarkable.

It is remarkable. However, look at their depth chart. Walker at TE was the only real weapon he had. Also, Tennessee's OL was much worse than the Bucs.

 

[PopsNole]

Sorry - but gonna have to dump on Mariotta.

Mariotta revealed himself to be very limited in some pretty critical ways.

(1) He plays almost exclusively out of the shotgun which kills the traditional running game.
(2) He cannot throw a deep ball to save the human race.
(3) His intermediate passing outside the tackle box is also a horror show.
(4) Injury prone. Just like in college.

Mariotta has elite accuracy on short throws and is a good intermediate passer on throws in tackle box.

Good defenses/defensive coordinators have already figured this out. Unless Mariotta can fix these hard to fix issues (injury issue isn't fixable), teams will increasingly scheme to take away what he can do. Mobile QBs like Mariotta (and RG3, Vick, Kapernick, etc) actually have their best years early as NFL grasps their weaknesses. Then - ruh roh.

He's a rookie. Yes his deep ball isn't very good but he has the arm strength to make the out of box throws he just has to practice at it. Jameis also had terrible accuracy large portions of this year and made a lot of terrible decisions.

I have no idea why people think praising Jameis' play also means you have to crap all over Mariota and ignore the great things he did this year.

 

[Annapolis]

TB's offensive line jumped offsides often in the few games I got to see in Baltimore............. #blametrickett

 

[anon_vKoAeFUPShc82MGE]

Mariota was pretty good this year as well and his offense was worse than what Jameis had a lot of the time. Both looked very good for rookies. No need to crap on Mariota although I will say his constant injuries should scare Titan fans.

I think you miss the point I was trying to make. I live in TN, where there are a lot of Jameis haters (Titans/SEC types). Ever since the start of 2015, the hate about JW has been spewing immensly in these parts (oh how they wanted to see JW fail). These people believe all the lies and propaganda that have been put out there on JW.

So to see Mariotta not do as well as JW (even if he didn't play as much due to injury), well that suites me just fine. For all the trash talking about how Mariotta was the better pick, how superior Mariotta was, how was a better person, or had better character, or that Mariotta would succeed where that evil Jameis Winston wouldn't, I hope Marcus falls flat on his rear!!! I hope Mariotta never amounts to squat in the NFL, is a total failure. Just like the Detmer's, Toretta's and other qb's who have either one a Heisman or were drafted high, I hope Mariotta is a dud!

Just like I want the lowly terds at uf to always have to eat their words, I want these idiots around here to have to swallow ever hard bite of how wrong and ignorant they were about JW. If you had to live around here, and constantly hear their ignorant trash or comments, you would feel the same. It's nice to see boneheads put in their place.

 

[PopsNole]

I think you miss the point I was trying to make. I live in TN, where there are a lot of Jameis haters (Titans/SEC types). Ever since the start of 2015, the hate about JW has been spewing immensly in these parts (oh how they wanted to see JW fail). These people believe all the lies and propaganda that have been put out there on JW.

So to see Mariotta not do as well as JW (even if he didn't play as much due to injury), well that suites me just fine. For all the trash talking about how Mariotta was the better pick, how superior Mariotta was, how was a better person, or had better character, or that Mariotta would succeed where that evil Jameis Winston wouldn't, I hope Marcus falls flat on his rear!!! I hope Mariotta never amounts to squat in the NFL, is a total failure. Just like the Detmer's, Toretta's and other qb's who have either one a Heisman or were drafted high, I hope Mariotta is a dud!

Just like I want the lowly terds at uf to always have to eat their words, I want these idiots around here to have to swallow ever hard bite of how wrong and ignorant they were about JW. If you had to live around here, and constantly hear their ignorant trash or comments, you would feel the same. It's nice to see boneheads put in their place.

No I understand the feeling completely. Every time I pulled up the Titans score I was hoping to see 5 interceptions for him.

 

[The WarNole]

and an OC

Koetter's offense got them # 5 in the NFL. I think he's fine.

 

[Play_Maker005]

Werent the Titans considered the better team early in the year? Perhaps Mariota's offense was worse because HE is worse.

Or, perhaps because he missed a third of the season due to injury. But to your point I'll add that durability is actually part of what makes him "worse" than Jameis. I always thought he had two major flaws going into his rookie season: throwing from the pocket and durability.

I think he has shown an ability to make plays from the pocket this year - have to give him credit for that. Durability, on the other hand, may always be a factor with him. He just seems injury prone.

Still think 15 years from now when we look back we'll see that Jameis was by far the better QB.

 

[bigeasynole]

Werent the Titans considered the better team early in the year? Perhaps Mariota's offense was worse because HE is worse.

I have never seen a worse NFL team than the bucs were in preseason and in the first few games this year. I was not sure if they could win a game and if Winston would servive the beating he was gonna take because I knew he would keep fighting. But they got ALOT better as the year went on and most of it was the leadership of jaboo. If Kwon Alexander has not got popped for PED and missed the last few games they might have made the playoffs.

 

[NYNole40]

I have never seen a worse NFL team than the bucs were in preseason and in the first few games this year. I was not sure if they could win a game and if Winston would servive the beating he was gonna take because I knew he would keep fighting. But they got ALOT better as the year went on and most of it was the leadership of jaboo. If Kwon Alexander has not got popped for PED and missed the last few games they might have made the playoffs.

No doubt. The fact that Tampa won 6 games is a testament to just how special Jameis is. That team was hot garbage and is hot garbage outside of Jameis. Your rookie QB throws for over 4000 yards, you have the #5 offense in the league, and you still lose 10 games? That's a special damn QB.

 

[flatskw88]

His numbers for yards and TDs compare favorably to the rookie seasons of Marino (5-6 fewer games), Rothesberger, RG III and Russell Wilson..............

 

[chumleynole]

Disagree that the team and the offensive line was hot garbage. Tampa was number 5 in offense largely because they were one of the best running teams in the league. Obviously the run blocking was pretty good. Biggest problem this year was an average defense and too many dropped footballs. The line needs to improve in pass blocking but in the NFL you have about 3 to 4 seconds from the snap to get rid of the ball or you will be sacked. The Bucs started two rookies on the line and for rookies they played very well. The Bucs need to tweak the offensive side of the football and add some impact players on the defensive line and in the secondary. If they do that they will contend. Jameis had a great rookie year and if those in charge do not screw it up they are in good shape for the future.

 

[QuaZ2002]

Disagree that the team and the offensive line was hot garbage. Tampa was number 5 in offense largely because they were one of the best running teams in the league. Obviously the run blocking was pretty good. Biggest problem this year was an average defense and too many dropped footballs. The line needs to improve in pass blocking but in the NFL you have about 3 to 4 seconds from the snap to get rid of the ball or you will be sacked. The Bucs started two rookies on the line and for rookies they played very well. The Bucs need to tweak the offensive side of the football and add some impact players on the defensive line and in the secondary. If they do that they will contend. Jameis had a great rookie year and if those in charge do not screw it up they are in good shape for the future.

Bucs offense will be great moving forward but they need to make some moves at WR. Evans does drop a lot of passes, but he still has super star potential and is only like 23y/o. The problem is that Louis Murphy tore his ACL in week 6 and Vincent Jackson missed about half the season as well. There were plenty of times the Bucs #2 WR was Adam Humphries an undrafted FA from Clemson (who wasn't anything special in college), and their #3 was Deontae Dye, a guy who shouldn't be anything more than a special teams player.

 

[FlashFSU]

Russel Wilson went to the Super Bowl just to soak in the environment his rookie year. I hope Jameis does the same because he's going there some day.

 

[Cubs79]

I don't think Mariota's offense was worse. He didn't have to deal with all the issues JW faced. JW had 2 rookies starting on the OL, had 3 of 4 WR targets out for significant parts of the year, had OL injury issues almost all year, had the 4th worst WR corps for drops and had to rely on very young and inexperienced WR corps. What Winston did with everything he faced is pretty remarkable.

The Titans offense arguably has less talent than any team in the league. They had 2 decent receiving options, and one of those was Kendall Wright who missed basically 7 games, and other starting WR Justin Hunter, sucks anyway but also missed about half the season. Their leading rusher had 520 yards compared to Doug Martin who had over 1400 yards. The Titans offense had 2 good things about it, Mariota and Delanie Walker. Especially considering injuries, I don't think anyone in the league had a weaker receiving corp than the Titans, and if their o-line wasnt the worst in the league, it was certainly in the bottom three. I think Mariota had a great year considering he had nothing to work with.

 

[Cubs79]

Sorry - but gonna have to dump on Mariotta.

Mariotta revealed himself to be very limited in some pretty critical ways.

(1) He plays almost exclusively out of the shotgun which kills the traditional running game.
(2) He cannot throw a deep ball to save the human race.
(3) His intermediate passing outside the tackle box is also a horror show.
(4) Injury prone. Just like in college.

Mariotta has elite accuracy on short throws and is a good intermediate passer on throws in tackle box.

Good defenses/defensive coordinators have already figured this out. Unless Mariotta can fix these hard to fix issues (injury issue isn't fixable), teams will increasingly scheme to take away what he can do. Mobile QBs like Mariotta (and RG3, Vick, Kapernick, etc) actually have their best years early as NFL grasps their weaknesses. Then - ruh roh.

***

It is just plain nonsense to say that these specific and fact based criticisms of Mariotta's play are only being made because I am a Winston fan.

It's a really unhelpful fact that Mariotta cannot do a drop back pass. And no its not clear why someone would assume he's going to develop that skill.

Mariotta had some nice games against bad Ds who were too stubborn about how they play defense (Bucs - Cover 2 and Jags - Cover 3) to scheme against Mariotta and take advantage of his bobo weaknesses.

Winston threw some bad balls. That's gonna happen. But as Winston gets a better receiving crew his numbers are going to shoot even higher. Cause Winston can make all the throws in a pro style system.

I think comparing Mariota to Kaepernick, Vick, and RGIII is way off base. Mariota is a far better pure passer and much more accurate than Kaepernick or Vick ever dreamed of being. And, Mariota didn't even run that much this year. He only had 34 attempts and 252 rushing yards, and 87 of those were on 1 play, so not sure what you watched to think Mariota is being used similar to Vick or Kaep, he isn't. And RGIII's issues aren't due to his physical abilities, they are due to him being a headcase, which there is no indication Mariota is prima donna like RGIII. I also think you are off base in other ways, but I have discussed that several times on this board before, and will likely just have to agree to disagree on a lot of your other points

 

[SunDevilNole]