Black Panther: movie

[kooterridesagain]

yes I know i'm months behind but I wanted to see this before Infinity so please no spoilers.

IMHO this movie was a 5/10 and not a Marvel classic. I was so excited but had missed it in theaters for many reasons.
Anyway, imho Acting was pretty good, the younger sister of Panther was awesome as was the Walking Dead character on his side, otherwise i thought Boseman and even M. Jordan were poor, neither looked like franchise character and both looked in over their heads.

the story i expected to be about British imperialism and it wasn't, it was a lame vague story ignoring a ton of history about Wakanda, i guess. Panther loses his powers twice in an hour electively? stupid. It had a lot of boring transitions and weak dialogue parts so it didn't seem like a Marvel movie, i felt like the director thought the cinematography and story were so incredible that i could just be in awe of the transitions, and i wasn't. I kept shaking my head wondering what the critics fell in love with. Anywho, i didn't get it, Wakanda deserves better writing, IMHO.

On to Avengers: Infinity Wars

 

[dmm5157]

If we're being honest here, most of the Marvel movies are not great. I saw IW last night. It was ok. I thought Black Panther was pretty good, better than most of the other movies. I really enjoyed Ragnarok. GotG was good, original IM was good. Original Avengers was good. Other than that, rest have been mostly meh and overhyped.

 

[West Duval Nole]

Well I am going to see Deadpool 2 tonight.

 

[noleclone2]

If we're being honest here, most of the Marvel movies are not great. I saw IW last night. It was ok. I thought Black Panther was pretty good, better than most of the other movies. I really enjoyed Ragnarok. GotG was good, original IM was good. Original Avengers was good. Other than that, rest have been mostly meh and overhyped.

I think you and the OP are in the minority on that one...

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/marvel-cinematic-universe-movies-by-tomatometer/

 

[kooterridesagain]

Ive liked most Marvel movies, Ragnarock especially as well as Guardians 1 and Avengers Civil War and iron man 1. Imho you can’t compare BPanther to those it just doesn’t hold up.

 

[kc78]

For me, I enjoyed it just because it called out so many of societies ills that we often claim are actually golden which isn't something you see in a Marvel movie very much. I think part of my love of the movie was also just seeing the joy in my friend's of color as they celebrated seeing African culture shown in such a positive and empowering light. To me, the cultural overtones likely took over the movie and may have made me love it more than it is as a movie. But for me, it was an absolutely amazing moment and I loved watching all of it unfold.

 

[NotGuiltyNole]

For me, I enjoyed it just because it called out so many of societies ills that we often claim are actually golden which isn't something you see in a Marvel movie very much. I think part of my love of the movie was also just seeing the joy in my friend's of color as they celebrated seeing African culture shown in such a positive and empowering light. To me, the cultural overtones likely took over the movie and may have made me love it more than it is as a movie. But for me, it was an absolutely amazing moment and I loved watching all of it unfold.

I just want to know why when BP had his first interaction with KM he could not attack him due to the ring. I assume is because it was made from Vibranium. If that is the case, why could they both fight in their Vibranium suits later in the movie. To me that is a massive plot hole that no one could explain.

 

[TennNole17]

Didn't enjoy. Throwaway movie, and character imo.

 

[kc78]

Didn't enjoy. Throwaway movie, and character imo.

He's going to wind up being one of the more important pieces of the Avengers and Marvel movies moving forward. He's hardly a throwaway character.

 

[kc78]

I just want to know why when BP had his first interaction with KM he could not attack him due to the ring. I assume is because it was made from Vibranium. If that is the case, why could they both fight in their Vibranium suits later in the movie. To me that is a massive plot hole that no one could explain.

What do you mean he couldn't fight him due to the ring? In the original fight, where Kilmonger challenges him, he has taken a substance that removes his "super powers" so it's a fair fight, man to man. He has to prove that he can beat any challenger with just his own skills as a method to retain his special "Black Panther" powers.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

I didn't care for Black Panther. The story was easy to see through, meaning the characters had little complexity or development. Beyond the novelty of this including a lot of African-American cast and production, it was pretty bad.

I think if anything it's a disservice to promoting and advancing African-Americans in film is their "crowning achievement" is basically a copycat movie that simply includes people of their race. If what is on offer here is considered a landmark for cultural achievement or advancement, I'd call it a substantial damnation of where we are as a culture. It wasn't unique in any way beyond skin color and continent

 

[West Duval Nole]

I don't really deep dive into the meanings like most people here do I guess. I liked Black Panther and did not translate a political meaning into it as many have. Even if that is what the director was trying to do.

 

[kc78]

I didn't care for Black Panther. The story was easy to see through, meaning the characters had little complexity or development. Beyond the novelty of this including a lot of African-American cast and production, it was pretty bad.

I think if anything it's a disservice to promoting and advancing African-Americans in film is their "crowning achievement" is basically a copycat movie that simply includes people of their race. If what is on offer here is considered a landmark for cultural achievement or advancement, I'd call it a substantial damnation of where we are as a culture. It wasn't unique in any way beyond skin color and continent

It was no simpler to see through than any other superhero movie. I thought it was much deeper than your average superhero movie. I think for many it was the celebration of African culture.

 

[dmm5157]

I think you and the OP are in the minority on that one...

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/marvel-cinematic-universe-movies-by-tomatometer/

How so? The 4 I listed are the top 4 in your link. The 4 MU movies I've enjoyed are IM, Ragnarok, Avengers, and BP.

I'm not a comic book nerd, so all the little intricacy is lost on me. A lot of the other movies were boring or too drawn out to me, but that's just my opinion.

 

[NotGuiltyNole]

What do you mean he couldn't fight him due to the ring? In the original fight, where Kilmonger challenges him, he has taken a substance that removes his "super powers" so it's a fair fight, man to man. He has to prove that he can beat any challenger with just his own skills as a method to retain his special "Black Panther" powers.

Not the fight to become Black Panther, the fight when KM broke out Klaw. KM only had the ring his dad gave him on the chain. When BP went to attack the ring knocked him back. Made no sense why it did then, but not later.

Edit: Just went back and rewatched it. I did not realize he hit him with a grenade launcher there. Nevermind, perfect movie!

 

[TennNole17]

He's going to wind up being one of the more important pieces of the Avengers and Marvel movies moving forward. He's hardly a throwaway character.

He's just not a hallmark character to me, and this movie did nothing to change my mind on that. Just my opinion- seems like most people enjoyed it. I also really dislike the actor who played Killmonger.

Alternatively, I wasn't a huge GOTG fan at first, but now I can rewatch 1 or 2 any given time and enjoy it.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

It was no simpler to see through than any other superhero movie. I thought it was much deeper than your average superhero movie. I think for many it was the celebration of African culture.

Superman or Superman 2? Batman The Dark Knight? Heck the Tobey Maguire Spider-man movies had much more depth. At least Thor and others had some self-effacing one-liners and such.

I suppose I saw the movie long after it got the ratings and was hailed as some political milestone. Perhaps it lined the pockets of a group of people not normally in blockbusters but that's as far as the cool factor went for me.

 

[Nole Lou]

I thought it was good. I didn't think it was as transcendent of the Marvel Universe, which some of the reviews seemed to indicate. It wasn't much better, and it wasn't any worse. Honestly, they are all pretty similar in quality at this point. Some are a little higher on the comedy if that's what you like (Thor) like I do, others more political/serious (Captain America Winter Soldier), but I think the standard is pretty much the standard at this point.

I actually didn't think BP was all that timely or political compared to what I was expecting, but I think it's setting and cast were still a big positive. We've seen a lot of these characters over and over (like 8 Spidermans and counting), and I'm definitely into new characters and settings. I don't think we need another story set in NY.

I think the biggest plus for BP that put it over some others for a lot of people was the world building. They did a good job building out the world of Wakanda in the time of a single movie. If you really thought that was cool, I think it was one of the better Marvel movies for you. If it's all about the plot...pretty standard stuff I think.

 

[Imtotallynottribe]

I thought it was good. I didn't think it was as transcendent of the Marvel Universe, which some of the reviews seemed to indicate. It wasn't much better, and it wasn't any worse. Honestly, they are all pretty similar in quality at this point. Some are a little higher on the comedy if that's what you like (Thor) like I do, others more political/serious (Captain America Winter Soldier), but I think the standard is pretty much the standard at this point.

I actually didn't think BP was all that timely or political compared to what I was expecting, but I think it's setting and cast were still a big positive. We've seen a lot of these characters over and over (like 8 Spidermans and counting), and I'm definitely into new characters and settings. I don't think we need another story set in NY.

I think the biggest plus for BP that put it over some others for a lot of people was the world building. They did a good job building out the world of Wakanda in the time of a single movie. If you really thought that was cool, I think it was one of the better Marvel movies for you. If it's all about the plot...pretty standard stuff I think.

I would add that it had some of the best villains in the MCU.

The only complaints I think are even remotely valid for the MCU in general is that 1) the female characters with a couple of exceptions are flat and uninteresting with terrible love interests and 2) the villains (again with only a couple of exceptions) are pretty bland mirror images of their main hero OR generic villain of the month type of characters.

But not only does BP have three (3!) pretty well rounded and memorable villains in Killmonger, M’Baku/Man-Ape, and Klaw. Heck, Killmonger was well-rounded enough you could even say he was the “hero” of the story as he basically ended up being right/changed BP’s mind about Wakanda’s involvement in the world. AND BP has some of the more compelling female characters in the MCU. I thought Shuri and Okoye in particular were nice additions.

 

[Nole Lou]

I would add that it had some of the best villains in the MCU.

The only complaints I think are even remotely valid for the MCU in general is that 1) the female characters with a couple of exceptions are flat and uninteresting with terrible love interests and 2) the villains (again with only a couple of exceptions) are pretty bland mirror images of their main hero OR generic villain of the month type of characters.

But not only does BP have three (3!) pretty well rounded and memorable villains in Killmonger, M’Baku/Man-Ape, and Klaw. Heck, Killmonger was well-rounded enough you could even say he was the “hero” of the story as he basically ended up being right/changed BP’s mind about Wakanda’s involvement in the world. AND BP has some of the more compelling female characters in the MCU. I thought Shuri and Okoye in particular were nice additions.

I would agree with this for sure, you're exactly right. Was strong in those couple areas where Marvel is usually lackluster. If you don't care about that, then it would go unnoticed, but it's one of the (few) areas where critics have dinged Marvel movies. So when it delivers on both of those, it pretty much guarantees critical praise (which it was going to get for cultural reasons anyway).

 

[tarheelinfl]

Well I am going to see Deadpool 2 tonight.

I liked DP2 better than IW or BP.

 

[SoddyNole]

While BP was entertaining, I found it odd that in an advanced society such as Wakanda having a fight to the death as a means to assess their leadership. The ability to cloak a plane and an entire city yet their soldiers are using shields and spears with the only upgrade having the ability to shoot a laser out of the tip. This doesn't even come close to a modern day African army no less one that is supposedly much further along than our current technology. Wouldn't this society have moved away from some of the tribal ways of their distant ancestors? But in this universe I suppose we see the Asgardians using shields, swords and hammers with a Monarchy style of government. Maybe back in 40's a lot of this was easier to accept.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Soddy,
Great point that was definitely odd and inconsistent with what little we were shown of Wakanda.

I also don’t get why this technologically advanced society ignored its African neighbors for ages and picked and chose minimal interference in the rest of the worlds antics, until the end. Wouldn’t a poverty stricken or warring surrounding country they referenced be pissed?
I didn’t read the comics so i will again say bad writing

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Totally agree - the whole thing was a thin sham of "cultural celebration" IMO. To me, that only puts down the cultural differences, far from elevating them.

For that I think it's fair to blame the critics and pundits that put such a high-brow shine on what is really nothing more than a generic action movie that happens to have a certain race of characters.

 

[kc78]

Soddy,
Great point that was definitely odd and inconsistent with what little we were shown of Wakanda.

I also don’t get why this technologically advanced society ignored its African neighbors for ages and picked and chose minimal interference in the rest of the worlds antics, until the end. Wouldn’t a poverty stricken or warring surrounding country they referenced be pissed?
I didn’t read the comics so i will again say bad writing

In the comics, many of the previous Panthers were a bit selfish at times. T'Challa is the first who really starts to move away from a "Wakanda First" ideal. Also, none of their neighbors even really know of their existence supposedly. With no external enemies or wars they're involved in, most of the conflicts are all intra-territorial so not as much need for advanced weaponry. It is interesting in the comics that because of opening their borders they become subject to a number of attacks, first from Namor the Submariner flooding their land and then Thanos decimating it. The people turn on T'Challa for a while because they think he's become arrogant and invited this into their borders.

Finally, the fight to the death is due to the God's. The Black Panther gets a special set of powers to protect the Kingdom from a God, and that God apparently will only allow those powers on someone who has proven themselves worthy. This has been the ritual that has proven their "worth" of possessing the power of the Black Panther.

 

[nole71911]

All marvel movies plots kind of suck. This movie I actually thought was good b/c it was different due to its:
Political Commentary
The best female characters in any of the Marvel movies