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TallyNole93

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I use the be fairly active on this board before the split and the old admin went to on3. I left and went to the college football soundoff board on the main site. It is not near as crazy as the main board. I came back today to have a look and snoop. I noticed this section was free so I thought to see what is going on. I see many of the "old" names from the old warchant. I was curious who would go to on3. I imagine I will hang out here more often.

I see warchant's subscription offers and wonder if they are hurting for memberships.
 
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ChiefWB

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There is much less drama on here. That being said the other place appears to have more traffic on the football and recruiting boards. I think competition makes for a better experience.
 

goldmom

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From some people's vantage point everyone is a little leftist.
LOL shocker. Lots of assuming.
I think that’s why bumper stickers and tee shirts that say “Don’t Cali my Texas” or Don’t Cali my Florida” are popular.
Sort of like everyone who thinks that way is a “MAGAT”???
😂😂😂
Ugh. I’m out.
 

GeddyLee09

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Some people are so far left, they can’t see the center.

You see this a lot more lately, even in popular media. Now, people like Joe Rogan, Bari Weiss, bill Maher, Elon musk …. Etc are suddenly “right wing.” The echo chamber box gets more and more dense.
Center doesn't fit in the good or bad category. It has to be one or the other to go with red and blue. Everything must be properly labeled.
 
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BelemNole

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Some people are so far left, they can’t see the center.

You see this a lot more lately, even in popular media. Now, people like Joe Rogan, Bari Weiss, bill Maher, Elon musk …. Etc are suddenly “right wing.” The echo chamber box gets more and more dense.
People who repeat right wing talking points are called right wing.
The funniest bit is the painting of Biden as a hard left progressive. He's always been a moderate/corporate. So was Clinton. But you all have gone so far right the John Birch Society probably seems liberal to you all now. Hell, go back and look at the things Reagan said - he'd be run out of office these days by the very people who deify him.
 

BelemNole

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LOL shocker. Lots of assuming.
I think that’s why bumper stickers and tee shirts that say “Don’t Cali my Texas” or Don’t Cali my Florida” are popular.
Sort of like everyone who thinks that way is a “MAGAT”???
😂😂😂
Ugh. I’m out.
Yes, neanderthals always demand the right to remain unchanged. Any suggestion of progress is a threat. Just look at the regime in Iran that's willing to kill people over a head scarf.
 

goldmom

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People who repeat right wing talking points are called right wing.
The funniest bit is the painting of Biden as a hard left progressive. He's always been a moderate/corporate. So was Clinton. But you all have gone so far right the John Birch Society probably seems liberal to you all now. Hell, go back and look at the things Reagan said - he'd be run out of office these days by the very people who deify him.
Biden had a very long and undistinguished Senate career and was known as a deal maker fairly adept at figuring out which way the wind was blowing.
He’s not necessarily a hard progressive but his handlers most assuredly are.
 

goldmom

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Yes, neanderthals always demand the right to remain unchanged. Any suggestion of progress is a threat. Just look at the regime in Iran that's willing to kill people over a head scarf.
So THATS where all the cavemen moved? And here I thought they preferred Afghanistan.
 

BelemNole

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Biden had a very long and undistinguished Senate career and was known as a deal maker fairly adept at figuring out which way the wind was blowing.
He’s not necessarily a hard progressive but his handlers most assuredly are.
Ah...there it is. His record shows he's a centrist....but it's the real power behind the power that's the dangerous progressives. No evidence, but it sounds scary!
 

MagNoleA

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Biden had a very long and undistinguished Senate career and was known as a deal maker fairly adept at figuring out which way the wind was blowing.
He’s not necessarily a hard progressive but his handlers most assuredly are.
In my experiences, its critical to know which way the wind is blowing.
" The answer my friend is blowing in the wind." I thought we can't do political.... Do you have special privileges? Asking for a friend. :cool:
 

BelemNole

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The problem is what is identified as a right wing talking point is anything Dems don’t like.

Relative to me, atheist academic professor, who identifies as a classical liberal, never trumper, im only right wing inasmuch as I’m not dem. Ie. Exactly what I said earlier, there’s a “with us or against us” mentality on the left side today. There’s no center.
Please, you're called right-wing based on the posts you make.
You say the left has no center but they voted a centrist into office.
The right is currently running anyone who isn't a MAGA nut out of office. Is Cheney not conservative? Everything she believes in is hard right except her position on Trump and the constitution. Yet she's been blacklisted.
 

BelemNole

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I’m not disputing you’re calling me right wing. I don’t respect your position on that. I think it’s silly. But, it’s not disputed.

Dems and gop and independents are not monoliths. Maga candidates did poorly in the midterms (good!). Cheney is not “hard right,” and trump isn’t particularly conservative. The problem as I see it relative to Cheney and it’s unfortunate, but I see the current iteration of congressional Dems as inflammatory. Immediately calling Jan 6 an “insurrection.” Cheney participated in something that was unnecessary grandstanding and partisan. You can argue about the details of that and you’ll be right on some elements.

There are of course other language manipulations. We have to “save democracy.”

Extending Trump’s celebrity by doing the Jan 6th hearings. Trying to paint congressional republicans as “election deniers” for questioning Covid related voting rule changes (eg rand Paul, who is, as far as I know, not maga).

I don’t think the Biden admin is centrist. Certainly not by Clinton era standards, if you’re using that.
Ah, I forgot that you also blamed the democrats for Trump, not the actual people voting for him or willing to risk their lives to keep him in office. It's such a rational argument that I can't imagine how I considered you right wing. I mean aside from that, 1/6 and your views on minority participation you're the very definition of centrist.
 
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BelemNole

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I suggested that the Dems wanted trump to run in 2016 and win the primary and that media helped that along by not covering the negatives of trump prior to the end of the primary and by covering trump very heavily in the primary and by ripping the other candidates. Ie, media election interference. You know…. Like Twitter.

As in the most recent election where the Dems blatantly funded Republican maga candidates in the primaries, this was open manipulation. I think they get credit for some of the variance accounted for in outcome. Did they expect republicans and independents to just stay home or vote hillary? Probably. I didn’t vote trump so it worked on me. Helluva tamper tantrum when they lost. But yeah, characterize that as irrational. Another chit in the silly category for you.

I’ve never made an anti-minority statement on any post or in real life that I’m aware of; certainly never with intent. I don’t tolerate racism, don’t respect it, and don’t want it in our society.

And yes, I view myself as a centrist. Center left on many issues, center right on many issues.
The dems did not force 63 million people to vote for trump. Just because he got news coverage doesn't mean that rep voters had to choose him over everyone in the large field.

The fact that you think you're a centrist proves that your opinions can not be trusted.
 

BelemNole

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No, that fact doesn’t prove my opinions can’t be trusted. Your interpretation is more consistent with you being far left than me not being centrist. And, I agree they didn’t have to vote for him. But you’d have had that type of vote with anyone in the republican field over hillary. The Dems bet on the disgust with trump being enough to put Hillary over the top. A lot of republicans held their nose and voted for trump. That wasn’t a mandate for trump.
Here's the thing - I know my views are considered left of center. I can acknowledge that without any trouble. I also can recognize people more to the center. I have several in my family as well as far right voters. You appear incapable of accurately determining where you stand. This is likely because it bruises your ego.
 

NoleSince1961

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I suggested that the Dems wanted trump to run in 2016 and win the primary and that media helped that along by not covering the negatives of trump prior to the end of the primary and by covering trump very heavily in the primary and by ripping the other candidates. Ie, media election interference. You know…. Like Twitter.

As in the most recent election where the Dems blatantly funded Republican maga candidates in the primaries, this was open manipulation. I think they get credit for some of the variance accounted for in outcome. Did they expect republicans and independents to just stay home or vote hillary? Probably. I didn’t vote trump so it worked on me. Helluva tamper tantrum when they lost. But yeah, characterize that as irrational. Another chit in the silly category for you.

I’ve never made an anti-minority statement on any post or in real life that I’m aware of; certainly never with intent. I don’t tolerate racism, don’t respect it, and don’t want it in our society.

And yes, I view myself as a centrist. Center left on many issues, center right on many issues.
Curious to hear why any self-proclaimed centrist would take issue with 1/6 being labeled an insurrection (obviously not everybody there was an insurrectionist, but not everybody at any large gathering is there for the exact same reasons or taking the same actions) and especially why any centrist who believes in the rule of law would dismiss the 1/6 hearings as unnecessary grandstanding.
 

BelemNole

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Because we didn’t label the riots in the summer and Chop:chaz as insurrection and we didn’t have congressional hearings to understand dem roles in fanning the flames over the summer. Jan 6 was stupid. The behavior was poor. I understand the semantics of labeling it an insurrection. But I see doing so, and not relative to the summer, as hypocritical, political and for the purpose of perpetuating the strategy of keeping the orange man as central to gop in the public eye. I don’t support the actions of trump on Jan 6 nor of the rioters on Jan 6th. We would have had riots if trump one too. That would have been stupid too. How is that not a centrist position?
Sure, sure they were exactly the same. I mean, what's the difference between people protesting racial violence and those trying to actually change the outcome of the election by storming the capital? What centrist wouldn't think those were identical??
 

NoleSince1961

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Because we didn’t label the riots in the summer and Chop:chaz as insurrection and we didn’t have congressional hearings to understand dem roles in fanning the flames over the summer. Jan 6 was stupid. The behavior was poor. I understand the semantics of labeling it an insurrection. But I see doing so, and not relative to the summer, as hypocritical, political and for the purpose of perpetuating the strategy of keeping the orange man as central to gop in the public eye. I don’t support the actions of trump on Jan 6 nor of the rioters on Jan 6th. We would have had riots if trump one too. That would have been stupid too. How is that not a centrist position?
Your ridiculous false equivalency conflating of 2 completely different series of events with extremely different motivations, different groups of participants, ultimate risks and outcomes and everything else (almost nothing about them being rationally comparable) tells me all I need to know about any usefulness for discussing this with you.
Let’s cut to the chase - you are no centrist at all.
Be who you want, but the lack of awareness and/or posing is pretty remarkable.
 
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fsufool

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No, that fact doesn’t prove my opinions can’t be trusted. Your interpretation is more consistent with you being far left than me not being centrist. And, I agree they didn’t have to vote for him. But you’d have had that type of vote with anyone in the republican field over hillary. The Dems bet on the disgust with trump being enough to put Hillary over the top. A lot of republicans held their nose and voted for trump. That wasn’t a mandate for trump.
I think that most Democrats just thought it was her turn, she had "stood by her man" and now she should be the first woman president. I thought she was a terrible candidate and knew the Democrats were in trouble with her. Voted for her, but never really believed in her or that she would win even though she was running against Trump. Bernie would have beaten Trump I bet. Now that would have been great presidential race!
 

BelemNole

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What’s the difference between armed take over of a large portion of a major us city for many weeks and unarmed pushing, breaking shit and theft that shut down congress for a couple of hours? The reason is irrelevant. That’s simply politics. What was the result?
The intent is irrelevant....
The justice system disagrees with you fellow centrist!
 

BelemNole

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But it was. The intent was violent opposition/uprising against the government. That is insurrection. I’m saying it’s the same. You’re saying “no my side is better because their reason was justified.” You’re the partisan here. Not me.
My side? My side didn't do shit in the west but stay home and watch TV. Some anarchists camped in Seattle for a few weeks. They weren't there to overthrow the state govt or even the city govt, that would require them to have motives other than anarchy. The only attempts at storming a state cap were done by....Trump supporters.
The 1/6 event was coordinated by gop members of congress in order to change the outcome of an election.
The fact that you see the two as the same says more than I ever can about your biases.
 

NoleSince1961

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What happened in Seattle was armed take over of a big chunk of the city. Literal lack of us legal presence in a us city ceded to an armed group who policed the area themselves for weeks. That is intended and successful insurrection. The motivation differences aren’t relevant. “False equivalency” here is a left talking point. It’s not a centrist position to argue “false equivalence” and what i am arguing isn’t a right wing position.

An insurrection is a violent uprising against an authority or government.

The summer and Jan 6 both meet that definition. Words have meaning.
OMG. Please educate yourself about both events (although the summer protests weren’t one event.)
Please also educate yourself regarding the foundation of US law and how motivation and intent carry very significant weight when comparing the seriousness and punishments set out in hundreds (probably thousands) of state and federal statutes, even when comparing violations of law that are far more similar to each other than the events you are falsely conflating.
There is nothing “left” about pointing out the ridiculousness of your arguments.
SMH
 

NoleSince1961

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I’m not arguing not to prosecute the Jan 6 rioters.

Would there be a Jan 6 commission if gop held congressional control in your opinion?
I doubt it, and that would be bad.
For the future health of our democracy (people can quibble over the semantics of “democracy” all they wish), I believe that everything about 1/6 rightly should have been/should be thoroughly evaluated, anybody integrally involved in the promotion, planning and/or execution of 1/6 should be held accountable, and we should enact whatever safeguards are necessary to prevent recurrence. I appreciate the public nature of the process too.

Not the same sentiment about the summer protests, even though there were clearly aspects that I disapprove of (including the opportunistic looters and boogaloo boys and others who weren’t simply protesting racial injustice.) I don’t find the summer protests to be anywhere close to 1/6, in too long a list of parameters to waste time debating.
 

NoleSince1961

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Right. So, it’s partisan.

You bringing up boogaloo boys relative to the summer is the same as trumper types bringing up antifa and other crowd agitators on Jan 6.

Partisan.

I understand there are a lot of differences between the two scenarios. I don’t see the point in debating the details. My overarching point is that the framing and process is partisan. You just confirmed that point. Wouldn’t happen had gop been in control.
I didn’t realize you were merely arguing that there’s a partisan element to who investigates what, since that’s not actually what you started out nor continued arguing, nor what I’ve been addressing.

And no sir again on your continued false equivalence nonsense. Not “the same” when boogaloo boys actually DID participate in the summer 2020 civil unrest, and even pleaded guilty to it.

Summer protests: https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...al-injustice-7edf9027af1878283f3818d96c54f748


Whereas your alleged Antifa and Jan 6?
https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...o-apparent-antifa-involvement-in-jan-6-attack

Please share any credible evidence whatsoever (which is not MT Greene saying Antifa’s to blame) that Antifa false flaggers were interspersed among the 1/6 rioters.

Btw, done wasting my time on this ridiculousness. And you’re nowhere near a “centrist”, but whatever floats your boat. Have a good one.
 

ChiefWB

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What’s the difference between armed take over of a large portion of a major us city for many weeks and unarmed pushing, breaking shit and theft that shut down congress for a couple of hours?
This is complete revisionist history and a comparison without an ounce of context. And my voting history would be considered well right of center. It’s hard to have a conversation when facts can be contorted this easily.
 

ChiefWB

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It’s not revisionist. It’s what happened.
Not even close. Your Seattle description alone is fractured and misleading. When you claim the whatever in DC was unarmed, not factual. You describe one incident as a pin prick and the other as a massive takeover of a “major us city”. And you forget to mention that one of the occurrences was an attack on the United States capital, the sitting Vice President was in the building and it was encouraged, if not ordered, by the sitting President. Context.
 

ChiefWB

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Massive takeover? Really, I said that? Believe I said “part of a major us city.” And that insurrectionists had control of it. That’s true. You are exaggerating what I said. There’s no evidence trump ordered anything. He contributed to a volatile situation as did many dem politicians to the summer. Context.
large portion of a major us city
I guess we see what we want to see. Enjoy your evening.
 
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