Myocarditis and the Covid Vaccination

Status
Not open for further replies.

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
I have been watching this for the last year. There has been plenty of peer reviewed papers about this from around the world.
I am posting a small section from a summation by Vinay Prasad, a full professor at UCSF in Epidemiology and Biostatistics. His speciality is blood cancers.

"But regardless, these findings already clearly dispel the true misinformation online: Yes, sorry to break it to you, vaccines can have risks of myocarditis EXCEEDING risks of myocarditis from infection. Pls stop saying otherwise.

And here is why it matters:

  1. There is marked uncertainty as to whether dose 3’s actually lowers severe outcomes & hospitalizations in young men. The FDA is making a huge regulatory gamble with boosters, and they are cheered on by many who are not adept at data analysis.
  2. Boosting 16-40 yo men might not be in their best interest (it might be net detrimental). We simply do not know with confidence. If it is revealed that it is not in their best interest, this administration will have dropped a nuclear bomb on vaccine confidence for 20 years. God help us all.
  3. We could have spaced out dose 2 in young men, or considered omitting it entirely, as some colleagues and I have been saying since June, in an effort to capture most of the gains and eliminate most of the harms of vaccination. This can still be done for Pfizer.
  4. The US FDA must halt use of Moderna in Men <40, as other nations have. Just like they dragged their feet with J&J and VITT, they drag their feet here, and people needlessly suffer due to their inaction.
These new data are of immediate and vital interest. Vaccination is important, but maximizing benefit and minimizing harms is the key. I do not see that the agencies meant to do this are pursuing it in the US.

Perhaps that is why Marion Gruber and Phil Krause, the Director and Deputy Director of vaccine products at FDA, resigned: they wanted no part of this."

Background: the Myocarditis risk increases each vaccination given to young especially in men. While the risk of hospitalization/death from Covid is very low for the unvaccinated in the under 40 age group and the gains after the first vaccination are minimal if any. Since we know that vaccination plus multiple boosters isn't stopping infection, the question still remains why vaccinate the under 40 or at least why more than once when any gains occur. While the incidence was very rare 1.7 out of 100,000 and for young men (16-25) it is 1 in 3000 to 5000, there is still a foundational point to make. In medicine you shouldn't be giving medicine that causes more issues than it saves.

Here is his final point:

Many doctors missed the plot: the purpose of talking about myocarditis is not to be critical of vaccines— they are a tremendous good— but to take seriously safety signals so that we can personalize or tailor appropriate vaccine strategies to the right ages to maximize efficacy and minimize harm. That’s Medicine 101.
 

goldmom

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Mar 29, 2002
63,952
50,596
1,853
Jacksonville
I can tell you as one with heart issues, my cardiologist recommended I get the vaccination plus the booster. I will stick with what he says because there's a decent chance I wouldn't be here today without him so that builds a level of trust.
I think that’s why it’s so important to seek out your Doctors advice and ask as many questions as you need to. There’s just not one answer/one size fits all.
 

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
I can tell you as one with heart issues, my cardiologist recommended I get the vaccination plus the booster. I will stick with what he says because there's a decent chance I wouldn't be here today without him so that builds a level of trust.
Sure, but are you a young man? Because age is a factor in myocarditis, with the younger age groups having more by a large factor (1.7 our of 100,000 versus 1 out of 3000-5000 for age 16-25).
Unfortunately you managed to miss the point. The older you are, the more the risk versus Covid avoidance goes down. This was also mentioned in that vaccination mitigation of hospitalization/death in the young stops after the first inoculation. While those over 65 continue to get mitigation of hospitalizations/death for the first 3.

We won't get into those who have been infected and how that plays into it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robear7

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Nov 22, 2020
8,246
23,546
1,853
I think that’s why it’s so important to seek out your Doctors advice and ask as many questions as you need to. There's not just one answer/one size fits all.
^^^^^This right here. And that's why the sweeping edicts about "everyone must get get these shots" or "everyone must wear masks" generated so much strife. What about the folks who may have had very valid reasons for NOT following those cookie-cutter commands?
 

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
^^^^^This right here. And that's why the sweeping edicts about "everyone must get get these shots" or "everyone must wear masks" generated so much strife. What about the folks who may have had very valid reasons for NOT following those cookie-cutter commands?
And what was said in my original post.................

"Many doctors missed the plot: the purpose of talking about myocarditis is not to be critical of vaccines— they are a tremendous good— but to take seriously safety signals so that we can personalize or tailor appropriate vaccine strategies to the right ages to maximize efficacy and minimize harm. That’s Medicine 101."
 
  • Like
Reactions: goldmom

DFSNOLE

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Sep 25, 2002
44,141
21,727
1,853
DeFuniak Springs Country Club
^^^^^This right here. And that's why the sweeping edicts about "everyone must get get these shots" or "everyone must wear masks" generated so much strife. What about the folks who may have had very valid reasons for NOT following those cookie-cutter commands?
There were indeed people who had very valid reasons but I believe they were outnumbered by those who made decisions based on things other than those types of reasons. Those people did a tremendous disservice to those with legitimate cases.
 

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
There were indeed people who had very valid reasons but I believe they were outnumbered by those who made decisions based on things other than those types of reasons. Those people did a tremendous disservice to those with legitimate cases.
Worse than that is we absolutely didn't follow the science and did not do good solid medicine. But, people aren't generally ready to understand that at this point.
 

DFSNOLE

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Sep 25, 2002
44,141
21,727
1,853
DeFuniak Springs Country Club
Worse than that is we absolutely didn't follow the science and did not do good solid medicine. But, people aren't generally ready to understand that at this point.
The science was ever evolving. This was a Novel Coronavirus. People seem to forget that and look at what was done early with 20/20 hindsight.
 

ChiefWB

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Sep 30, 2014
14,495
22,391
1,853
Huntersville, NC
Could it be possible that a virus could be responsible for what is being claimed as an increase in myocarditis among certain demographics?
 

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
The science was ever evolving. This was a Novel Coronavirus. People seem to forget that and look at what was done early with 20/20 hindsight.
Actually we knew a lot.............just ignored it. This might have been a novel virus, but we had lots of science around viruses in general and mitigation strategies of respiratory viruses. And much of what was done, ignored what was known in favor of drastic social experimentation. Those experts that didn't adhere to the narrative being thrown out were silenced, ridiculed, and worse. And while the rest of the world refused to use Moderna for young men because of the data on myocarditis, the USA continued to use it.

But that is water under the bridge now. We will let history write the stories.
 
Last edited:

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
Could it be possible that a virus could be responsible for what is being claimed as an increase in myocarditis among certain demographics?
The scientist above talked about that. Viruses do cause cases of myocarditis. Well known previous to Covid. Now we know that the vaccination causes excess cases of myocarditis above what the Covid virus causes. Again more cases in males and more in the 16-25 age group. And it was the second and third vaccination that increased the cases, not the first one. Moderna, more than Phizer. (Moderna first shot caused some excess cases) Rest of the world refused to use Moderna on the young............FYI
 

ChiefWB

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Sep 30, 2014
14,495
22,391
1,853
Huntersville, NC
The scientist above talked about that. Viruses do cause cases of myocarditis. Well known previous to Covid. Now we know that the vaccination causes excess cases of myocarditis above what the Covid virus causes. Again more cases in males and more in the 16-25 age group. And it was the second and third vaccination that increased the cases, not the first one. Moderna, more than Phizer. (Moderna first shot caused some excess cases) Rest of the world refused to use Moderna on the young............FYI
FYI. That’s one study. Stay healthy my friend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DFSNOLE

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
FYI. That’s one study. Stay healthy my friend.
No, multiple studies....................And as you probably know I am older and fully vaccinated. This is about our public health officials not following the science and using a one-size-fits-all strategy and flat out lying to us. It's starting to come out now, slowly. I wouldn't be surprised if even the media down the road starts to report on this and other COVID untruths/failures.

FYI, there was little consensus on anything surrounding Covid, with the exception of the initial vaccination series (2). Public Health officials, physicians, politicians, mass media, etc. created a narrative about the science that can be more accurately described as mass hysteria. Part of it is understandable with the amount of folks getting really sick and dying, part was just pure power/control from folks with out of control ego's. Very human...............but will we learn our lessons???????

Again, water under the bridge................
 
Last edited:

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Nov 22, 2020
8,246
23,546
1,853
No, multiple studies....................And as you probably know I am older and fully vaccinated. This is about our public health officials not following the science and using a one-size-fits-all strategy and flat out lying to us. It's starting to come out now, slowly. I wouldn't be surprised if even the media down the road starts to report on this and other COVID untruths/failures.

FYI, there was little consensus on anything surrounding Covid, with the exception of the initial vaccination series (2). Public Health officials, physicians, politicians, mass media, etc. created a narrative about the science that can be more accurately described as mass hysteria. Part of it is understandable with the amount of folks getting really sick and dying, part was just pure power/control from folks with out of control ego's. Very human...............but will we learn our lessons???????

Again, water under the bridge................
Media LOVED Covid-19. Remember CNN’s “death counter,” akin to the Jerry Lewis Telethon? Portraying doom and gloom is what they love to focus on……never mind that they are (often) grossly distorting what is happening on a macro level. And lots of people blindly believe the media…..hook, line and sinker.
 

GeddyLee09

Veteran Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Mar 10, 2005
5,343
4,295
853
Media LOVED Covid-19. Remember CNN’s “death counter,” akin to the Jerry Lewis Telethon? Portraying doom and gloom is what they love to focus on……never mind that they are (often) grossly distorting what is happening on a macro level. And lots of people blindly believe the media…..hook, line and sinker.
I remember early in the fiasco where CNN showed lines of refrigerated trailers where they were supposedly storing bodies. I forget which city it was supposed to be but the pictures were from San Antonio like 5 years earlier for a mass casualty exercise. That told me a whole story in its self.
 
Last edited:

Nola954

Star Player
Gold Member
Aug 7, 2018
344
492
133
I can tell you as one with heart issues, my cardiologist recommended I get the vaccination plus the booster. I will stick with what he says because there's a decent chance I wouldn't be here today without him so that builds a level of trust.
I would look for a new cardiologist if he recommended you to get boosted. Clear sign he is completely clueless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clowary

J P

Contributor
Gold Member
Feb 1, 2002
214
115
453
The scientist above talked about that. Viruses do cause cases of myocarditis. Well known previous to Covid. Now we know that the vaccination causes excess cases of myocarditis above what the Covid virus causes. Again more cases in males and more in the 16-25 age group. And it was the second and third vaccination that increased the cases, not the first one. Moderna, more than Phizer. (Moderna first shot caused some excess cases) Rest of the world refused to use Moderna on the young............FYI
Post the data where the vaccine causes more myocarditis than COVID itself
 

J P

Contributor
Gold Member
Feb 1, 2002
214
115
453
additionally myocarditis is only one possible disease processes to look at , there are thousands of more diseases processes to compare. Thromboembolism would scare me more than myocarditis, and is by far more common in COVID and was one of the main reasons people were suddenly dropping dead.
 

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
Post the data where the vaccine causes more myocarditis than COVID itself
You seem more than capable of finding it yourself...........I am just posting what I am seeing...........everyone can make their own decisions and believe what they want. I have spent more time on this than I should have.

Here is the one referenced in the original post for your convenience


And yes the Thromboembolism from the J&J was much more concerning.

But, the thrust of the original post is that giving the vaccination to an age group that is not threatened by Covid that has any adverse affects, even rare ones, is not good medicine. And that the adverse affect was mainly with the second and third vaccination, which were definitely not preventing hospitalization/death in the 16-25 age group where this adverse affect was concentrated.

Peace out...................
 

goldmom

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Mar 29, 2002
63,952
50,596
1,853
Jacksonville
Today’s WSJ reports that the CDC will waive human data for the “new and improved” booster and instead use a combination of prior mRNA data and the outcome of the new vax formula gained from studies done on...lab rats.
There are mixed opinions on this course among some in the CDC and other scientists.
Now there’s a shocker.
 

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
Today’s WSJ reports that the CDC will waive human data for the “new and improved” booster and instead use a combination of prior mRNA data and the outcome of the new vax formula gained from studies done on...lab rats.
There are mixed opinions on this course among some in the CDC and other scientists.
Now there’s a shocker.
From the data I have seen and because I have gotten Covid, I will not be getting any more boosters. (I have 3 total shots)
I will highly suggest to my 20 year old and to my wife to not either. We all have proven immune responses and immunity imprinting is not fully understood.
 

GeddyLee09

Veteran Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Mar 10, 2005
5,343
4,295
853
Media LOVED Covid-19. Remember CNN’s “death counter,” akin to the Jerry Lewis Telethon? Portraying doom and gloom is what they love to focus on……never mind that they are (often) grossly distorting what is happening on a macro level. And lots of people blindly believe the media…..hook, line and sinker.
Dont forget that clown Cuomo staging a coming out of quarantine special. And he had already been caught out of isolation.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Nov 22, 2020
8,246
23,546
1,853
From the data I have seen and because I have gotten Covid, I will not be getting any more boosters. (I have 3 total shots)
I will highly suggest to my 20 year old and to my wife to not either. We all have proven immune responses and immunity imprinting is not fully understood.
Based on currently-available information, no more shots for me either. It will take a compelling and non-politicized explanation from a medical expert I trust to convince me to get more shots whose efficacy is, at best, very debatable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clowary and F4Gary

goldmom

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Mar 29, 2002
63,952
50,596
1,853
Jacksonville
I planned to get the “new and improved” booster next month because my primary recommended it, but she also said stick with Pfizer over Moderna and space it at least two weeks apart from my flu shot.
With the article this morning I now think I need to see more information before I’ll get the booster.
 

J P

Contributor
Gold Member
Feb 1, 2002
214
115
453
You seem more than capable of finding it yourself...........I am just posting what I am seeing...........everyone can make their own decisions and believe what they want. I have spent more time on this than I should have.

Here is the one referenced in the original post for your convenience


And yes the Thromboembolism from the J&J was much more concerning.

But, the thrust of the original post is that giving the vaccination to an age group that is not threatened by Covid that has any adverse affects, even rare ones, is not good medicine. And that the adverse affect was mainly with the second and third vaccination, which were definitely not preventing hospitalization/death in the 16-25 age group where this adverse affect was concentrated.

Peace out...................
You seem more than capable of finding it yourself...........I am just posting what I am seeing...........everyone can make their own decisions and believe what they want. I have spent more time on this than I should have.

Here is the one referenced in the original post for your convenience


And yes the Thromboembolism from the J&J was much more concerning.

But, the thrust of the original post is that giving the vaccination to an age group that is not threatened by Covid that has any adverse affects, even rare ones, is not good medicine. And that the adverse affect was mainly with the second and third vaccination, which were definitely not preventing hospitalization/death in the 16-25 age group where this adverse affect was concentrated.

Peace out...................
Peace out? You dont understand the data obviously. Ditto, you could have looked the date up yourself. The incidence of thrombosis embolism in the highest population receiving the johnson and johnson vaccine is 1 in 100000. which is in young women. The incidence of thromboembolism in people who have COVID itself is 8% which would be 8000 in 100000. Hmmm, which group is more at risk?
 

J P

Contributor
Gold Member
Feb 1, 2002
214
115
453
You seem more than capable of finding it yourself...........I am just posting what I am seeing...........everyone can make their own decisions and believe what they want. I have spent more time on this than I should have.

Here is the one referenced in the original post for your convenience


And yes the Thromboembolism from the J&J was much more concerning.

But, the thrust of the original post is that giving the vaccination to an age group that is not threatened by Covid that has any adverse affects, even rare ones, is not good medicine. And that the adverse affect was mainly with the second and third vaccination, which were definitely not preventing hospitalization/death in the 16-25 age group where this adverse affect was concentrated.

Peace out...................
About your study, it does not address the question I asked. It only mentions that the risk of myocarditis maybe greater than previously reported.
couple of points:
-Not an American study.
-age group is 13-18 and not the adult population you mention, pericarditis is more common in younger kids
-the diagnosis criteria is very lenient for the diagnosis, if you apply the same criteria to adult patients with active COVID infection I about 50% would could be diagnosed with myocarditis
-only one patient out of 300 had what they described as clinical myocarditis
-the clinical course of the myocarditis was mild . Also no fatalities. All had fully recoveries in less than 14 days.
 

ChiefWB

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Sep 30, 2014
14,495
22,391
1,853
Huntersville, NC
No, multiple studies....................And as you probably know I am older and fully vaccinated. This is about our public health officials not following the science and using a one-size-fits-all strategy and flat out lying to us. It's starting to come out now, slowly. I wouldn't be surprised if even the media down the road starts to report on this and other COVID untruths/failures.

FYI, there was little consensus on anything surrounding Covid, with the exception of the initial vaccination series (2). Public Health officials, physicians, politicians, mass media, etc. created a narrative about the science that can be more accurately described as mass hysteria. Part of it is understandable with the amount of folks getting really sick and dying, part was just pure power/control from folks with out of control ego's. Very human...............but will we learn our lessons???????

Again, water under the bridge................
The biggest lesson we need to learn is to stop hoping the other side looks bad when responding to a global pandemic. The polarization of this thing would be funny if it weren’t so sad and destructive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clowary and fsufool

GeddyLee09

Veteran Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Mar 10, 2005
5,343
4,295
853
The biggest lesson we need to learn is to stop hoping the other side looks bad when responding to a global pandemic. The polarization of this thing would be funny if it weren’t so sad and destructive.
The entire thing is very sad. Sad that this is what our society has reduced its self to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: goldmom

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
Peace out? You dont understand the data obviously. Ditto, you could have looked the date up yourself. The incidence of thrombosis embolism in the highest population receiving the johnson and johnson vaccine is 1 in 100000. which is in young women. The incidence of thromboembolism in people who have COVID itself is 8% which would be 8000 in 100000. Hmmm, which group is more at risk?
I have no idea what you are trying to prove........but saying that 8% of those infected with Covid have thromboembolism is hard to believe. 96MM are known to be infected and that is not including those who were asymptomatic and didn't test or those that just didn't test or report their test. So, you are saying that at least 7.7 MM in the USA have had thromboembolism and yet no one has said anything about these cases clogging up the health care settings?
 

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
About your study, it does not address the question I asked. It only mentions that the risk of myocarditis maybe greater than previously reported.
couple of points:
-Not an American study.
-age group is 13-18 and not the adult population you mention, pericarditis is more common in younger kids
-the diagnosis criteria is very lenient for the diagnosis, if you apply the same criteria to adult patients with active COVID infection I about 50% would could be diagnosed with myocarditis
-only one patient out of 300 had what they described as clinical myocarditis
-the clinical course of the myocarditis was mild . Also no fatalities. All had fully recoveries in less than 14 days.
Again, you need to argue with the MD/PhD Full Professor who posts his opinion, not me. I am just choosing to believe him and others who are putting their careers on the line going counter-narrative over the companies who are profiting handsomely and the CDC which has proven to me that they can't be trusted anymore. The science is moving forward no matter what. As I posted before, with the technical arguments I talk to people I know in the discipline to explain it. I claim no expertise myself.

Myocarditis in children and young adults is what is under discussion not in adults and no one has said the myocarditis was severe or causing death. Its about risk of vaccination of a group versus risk of getting infected. As we now know the vaccination did not stop infections, and after the first shot did not decrease hospitalizations/deaths for this group (which had an extreme low risk to begin with centered in a couple subsections).

Finally, the reason there is such a lack of research in this country is it isn't funded if it challenges the prevailing narrative. The lack of RCT research is most glaring. However, there is some research still being done in Britain if you don't trust peer reviewed articles with authors from non-western countries. So, the lack of size of the study and the prospective nature of the study (longitudinal) are more about the difficulty of getting funding to do a series of RCT studies, which we all agree would be better to flesh out the issues.

EDIT: This paper finds excess cases in the 16-40 age group higher from 2nd mRNA vaccination compared to positive COVID Test by 50%.

British Research Published in Nature:
Large Highly Powered Study
Relevant section:
Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection

"The risks are more evenly balanced in younger persons aged up to 40years, where we estimated the excess in myocarditis events following SARS-CoV-2 infection to be 10 per million with the excess following a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine being 15 per million. Further research is required to understand why the risk of myocarditis seems to be higher following mRNA-1273 vaccine."
 
Last edited:

J P

Contributor
Gold Member
Feb 1, 2002
214
115
453
I have no idea what you are trying to prove........but saying that 8% of those infected with Covid have thromboembolism is hard to believe. 96MM are known to be infected and that is not including those who were asymptomatic and didn't test or those that just didn't test or report their test. So, you are saying that at least 7.7 MM in the USA have had thromboembolism and yet no one has said anything about these cases clogging up the health care
Again, you need to argue with the MD/PhD Full Professor who posts his opinion, not me. I am just choosing to believe him and others who are putting their careers on the line going counter-narrative over the companies who are profiting handsomely and the CDC which has proven to me that they can't be trusted anymore. The science is moving forward no matter what. As I posted before, with the technical arguments I talk to people I know in the discipline to explain it. I claim no expertise myself.

Myocarditis in children and young adults is what is under discussion not in adults and no one has said the myocarditis was severe or causing death. Its about risk of vaccination of a group versus risk of getting infected. As we now know the vaccination did not stop infections, and after the first shot did not decrease hospitalizations/deaths for this group (which had an extreme low risk to begin with centered in a couple subsections).

Finally, the reason there is such a lack of research in this country is it isn't funded if it challenges the prevailing narrative. The lack of RCT research is most glaring. However, there is some research still being done in Britain if you don't trust peer reviewed articles with authors from non-western countries. So, the lack of size of the study and the prospective nature of the study (longitudinal) are more about the difficulty of getting funding to do a series of RCT studies, which we all agree would be better to flesh out the issues.

EDIT: This paper finds excess cases in the 16-40 age group higher from 2nd mRNA vaccination compared to positive COVID Test by 50%.

British Research Published in Nature:
Large Highly Powered Study
Relevant section:
Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection

"The risks are more evenly balanced in younger persons aged up to 40years, where we estimated the excess in myocarditis events following SARS-CoV-2 infection to be 10 per million with the excess following a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine being 15 per million. Further research is required to understand why the risk of myocarditis seems to be higher following mRNA-1273 vaccine."
I simply posted data and explained the article you posted to you. Not arguing at all, just replacing heresy with facts.
 

goldmom

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Mar 29, 2002
63,952
50,596
1,853
Jacksonville
J P would you mind sharing your background just a bit so those of us who are not in a research/health field can better understand your depth of knowledge? For example, you just labeled the poster’s link as heresy, which would indicate some scientific experience on your part to qualify you to use the term. TIA.
 

DFSNOLE

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Sep 25, 2002
44,141
21,727
1,853
DeFuniak Springs Country Club
J P would you mind sharing your background just a bit so those of us who are not in a research/health field can better understand your depth of knowledge? For example, you just labeled the poster’s link as heresy, which would indicate some scientific experience on your part to qualify you to use the term. TIA.
To be fair, we have several posters in this thread who are posting as though they are experts.
 

FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Nov 22, 2020
8,246
23,546
1,853
I planned to get the “new and improved” booster next month because my primary recommended it, but she also said stick with Pfizer over Moderna and space it at least two weeks apart from my flu shot.
With the article this morning I now think I need to see more information before I’ll get the booster.
Absent the emergence of some new virulent strain of the virus — God forbid — no more boosters or vaccines for this dude. “Covid” is now akin to getting a cold, and the shots obviously don’t prevent them. So I see the unknown risks of the (ineffective) shots as exceeding the risks of the “cold.” Just my personal calculus, and others may feel differently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F4Gary

fsufool

Ultimate Seminole Insider
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
10,643
13,820
1,853
New Hampshire
www.shaferfinancial.com
Absent the emergence of some new virulent strain of the virus — God forbid — no more boosters or vaccines for this dude. “Covid” is now akin to getting a cold, and the shots obviously don’t prevent them. So I see the unknown risks of the (ineffective) shots as exceeding the risks of the “cold.” Just my personal calculus, and others may feel differently.

Have you gotten Covid? Because I have, most likely one of the Omicron variants, and that means I know exactly how my body will react and how good of an immune response I have. It's complicated with immune imprinting, but what we know is that the original series is very durable for healthy individuals with regard to hospitalization/death. And that those who get Covid are also protected against hospitalization/death and this is more durable than the vaccine. (Remember when the CDC was saying the opposite?) So, if you are immune compromised or very old and have ongoing health issues, you might want to get the new booster (we wait for the CDC to recommend), but the 95%+ of individuals who reside in the US that have a good immune response because of previous vaccinations or having been infected should just move on with their lives until something changes with their health. Each new booster, because of immunity imprinting can have unpredictable results in immunity. That last takeaway for me is critically important. On the other end, young children, the data indicates around 75-80% have already been infected and getting vaccinated could lower their immunity, which is difficult to fully digest. If I knew then, what I knew now, I would not have suggested my then 18 year old son get vaccinated. Just wasn't necessary and had a small risk of hopefully temporary vaccination injury (1 in 3000 to 5000). Again, the credence do no harm is something I believe in.

I also point out that I don't get the Flu vaccine, even though I am getting up there in age, because it hasn't been particularly protective (well less than 50% over the last 10 years). But, immune imprinting, as I understand it is important.

"Immune memory causes a primary infection to impart an enduring imprint (8–11). Despite a lifetime of repeated exposures to divergent influenza viruses, the relative strength of an individual’s immune response to vaccination or infection correlates with the antigenic similarity of the vaccine or infecting strain to that person’s initial exposure. Until recently, the first encounter was invariably an infection. Because of recent changes in vaccine policy in the United States and Europe, infants and toddlers are now encouraged to receive influenza vaccines before they experience an influenza infection (12, 13). We have little information, however, about the immunological memory to influenza virus established when the primary exposure is vaccination rather than infection."

So, there is a lot we don't know about the repeated use of vaccines and its effect on immunity. Just something to think about. I am not an expert, but think there is a lot of unknown effects of repeated inoculations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.