National Anthem & The NFL

[ReliableOstrich]

My question would be what if this spills over to college football?

let it. who cares.
what on earth is the big deal?

it's a football game, i watch them to see guys move a football around. not to see 100+ dudes in plastic pads and helmets stand around for 3 mins while someone sings.

those are called concerts, i pay for those separately and they last longer than 3 mins.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Yes it started a conversation but it was usually the wrong conversation related to (un)patriotism not racial relations. Can't fault him for trying to better the current climate but I think there were better ways to go about it.

what are those better ways?

really seems no matter what someone does to start that convo, the folks who don't want to have the conversation will find a way to avoid it / deflect based on some technicality or semantic difference.

you'd nearly have to find the perfect way to get those folks a table they have no desire to be at.

 

[Nole Lou]

what are those better ways?

really seems no matter what someone does to start that convo, the folks who don't want to have the conversation will find a way to avoid it / deflect based on some technicality or semantic difference.

you'd nearly have to find the perfect way to get those folks a table they have no desire to be at.

I support his right to protest, and his cause to some extent. As I was saying before...I'd rather see something other than a flag protest, such as maybe a uniform alteration that draws fines, or something. I'm not sure what.

Martin Luther King gave his I Have a Dream Speech under that flag. Civil rights marchers carried it. The North crushed the confederacy carrying it. Kapernick and his fellow posters have every right to that flag, it doesn't belong to the cops or even the army. He shouldn't be rejecting it, he should be reminding people it stands for everyone in the country.

How to do this? I guess I haven't thought enough about it. I'm sure someone could come up with an equally inflammatory gesture that doesn't further the narrative that the flag is only for the powerful.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I support his right to protest, and his cause to some extent. As I was saying before...I'd rather see something other than a flag protest, such as maybe a uniform alteration that draws fines, or something. I'm not sure what.

Martin Luther King gave his I Have a Dream Speech under that flag. Civil rights marchers carried it. The North crushed the confederacy carrying it. Kapernick and his fellow posters have every right to that flag, it doesn't belong to the cops or even the army. He shouldn't be rejecting it, he should be reminding people it stands for everyone in the country.

How to do this? I guess I haven't thought enough about it. I'm sure someone could come up with an equally inflammatory gesture that doesn't further the narrative that the flag is only for the powerful.

i think the metaphor he's going for is he won't stand up for a flag that won't stand up for him (read: minorities treated unjustly by the justice system).

the flag being a representation of America, all 315m of us and our government.

i think it's fine, he's not desecrating, mocking, or disrespecting it.
the metaphor, while not perfect makes enough sense.

i don't think he or anyone else would deny that the flag stands for a lot of great things and brave men and women, however the history of our flag also has it's flaws. we aren't a perfect union, but we'd be unfaithful to the promise of the founding fathers if we didn't actively strive to move in that direction.

 

[SoddyNole]

It never ends well for the martyr.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

It never ends well for the martyr.

true, but in theory it never starts without one?

 

[DanC78]

It never ends well for the martyr.

i agree with this and have been burned in the past because of it.

 

[given2fly]

I support his right to protest, and his cause to some extent. As I was saying before...I'd rather see something other than a flag protest, such as maybe a uniform alteration that draws fines, or something. I'm not sure what.

Martin Luther King gave his I Have a Dream Speech under that flag. Civil rights marchers carried it. The North crushed the confederacy carrying it. Kapernick and his fellow posters have every right to that flag, it doesn't belong to the cops or even the army. He shouldn't be rejecting it, he should be reminding people it stands for everyone in the country.

How to do this? I guess I haven't thought enough about it. I'm sure someone could come up with an equally inflammatory gesture that doesn't further the narrative that the flag is only for the powerful.

I think your exact sentiment about the flag is what makes it such a powerful protest. Nobody is talking about this 1 year later if he altered his uniform.

 

[SoddyNole]

I think your exact sentiment about the flag is what makes it such a powerful protest. Nobody is talking about this 1 year later if he altered his uniform.

Wouldn't you think that a clear message of what his point is would have had more impact? And while a lot of networks went into immediate defense and damage control a vast number of people still today either did not understand, did not believe or found his actions too offensive to think about what he was trying to convey. While he has some talent as a QB and should be in the league as a 2nd string player at worst, chances are no team is going to touch him because of an actual economic impact suffered and the media circus that would follow. It is not a stretch to think his football playing days very well may be over. He could have easily kept his job in the NFL and spent the off-seasons on lecture tours of campuses and various venues and think tanks across the country. I am sure with his status he could have had the best writers work on a speech that would inspire others in pursuing his dream. A successful open dialog for such a change rarely begins with an insult or a moderation of speech. While not knowing the guy, I suspect that was his intent and obviously the reaction he received and his dream and NFL career will both soon fade into obscurity.

 

[daveynole]

Jaguars.

 

[gunnyhiway]

as a former Marine I think you should stand but if you don't, I don't care. Makes it easier to ID the SJW. If you really want to make an impact, invest your time and/or money to a cause. I'm tired of tuning into sports and hearing someone's hot political take which is why other than GameDay, I never watch or listen to espn.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

as a former Marine I think you should stand but if you don't, I don't care. Makes it easier to ID the SJW. If you really want to make an impact, invest your time and/or money to a cause. I'm tired of tuning into sports and hearing someone's hot political take which is why other than GameDay, I never watch or listen to espn.

What's an sjw?

 

[West Duval Nole]

What's an sjw?

Social Justice Warrior would be my guess.

 

[LesClaypool]

What's an sjw?

Sarah Jessica Warker?

 

[peezy28]

Chris Long joined the protest.

 

[peezy28]

as a former Marine I think you should stand but if you don't, I don't care. Makes it easier to ID the SJW. If you really want to make an impact, invest your time and/or money to a cause. I'm tired of tuning into sports and hearing someone's hot political take which is why other than GameDay, I never watch or listen to espn.

As for Colin Kap he actually does invest his time and money in it. As for never watching ESPN... Yup I joined that trend years ago.. Its basically TMZ sports so unless its an actual game or a CFB highlight show I will not watch (maybe for 30 for 30's depending on the topic.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Sarah Jessica Warker?

I laughed

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Social Justice Warrior would be my guess.

Oh haha had no idea that acronym existed.
I guess that's helpful. I'd also like to ID social justice warriors so that I can commend them on working to continue our founding fathers' commitment to equality for all.

My compliments to @gunnyhiway for being so attentive to these fine folks. I should expect nothing less of a Marine. Bravo.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

No one is "guaranteed" a job. Do stuff that makes you controversial, rightly or wrongly, and you may be unemployed. Kaepernick is a distraction for any organization, and that is why is why no one wants to deal with him. Big lesson for all young kids. You are never bigger than the game or the organization. Everyone will be fine without you. Next man up.

 

[Fijimn]

No one is "guaranteed" a job. Do stuff that makes you controversial, rightly or wrongly, and you may be unemployed. Kaepernick is a distraction for any organization, and that is why is why no one wants to deal with him. Big lesson for all young kids. You are never bigger than the game or the organization. Everyone will be fine without you. Next man up.

I'm going to suggest that opposition outside your employment in sports will lead to the same results. Mohammed Ali had to go all the way to SCOTUS to work. So I'd be careful with the shut up and work narrative

 

[KitingHigh]

No one is "guaranteed" a job. Do stuff that makes you controversial, rightly or wrongly, and you may be unemployed. Kaepernick is a distraction for any organization, and that is why is why no one wants to deal with him. Big lesson for all young kids. You are never bigger than the game or the organization. Everyone will be fine without you. Next man up.

Really, he just isn't that good. If Tom Brady kneeled during the anthem it wouldn't affect his career at all.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Maybe time for a big thanks to DFS for giving us a little leeway in some of these current event threads! ( and thanks to all who are posting responsibly and not purposely blowing them up)

 

[BelemNole]

Really, he just isn't that good. If Tom Brady kneeled during the anthem it wouldn't affect his career at all.

Tom Brady is different. I'll let u figure out how. No, not the super bowl rings.

 

[goldmom]

I agree. Never judge a man by the size of his flagpole, I say.

Hey, YOU'RE not the one running up the flag, honey.

 

[Mugsy101]

Obviously this country is not perfect, much like there is no QB who hasn't thrown and INT.

My main problem with Kaepernick is that he doesn't get or understand that there has been no other form of government or economic freedom that has provided more for the common person or the downtrodden around the world than what the United States has done. It is undeniable and without question.

He's a fraud and hypocrite not because he is wrong, but because he is ignorant to the truth, and I am sick and tired of the idiots of the world getting a free pass for being wrong.

 

[Hayduke GW]

Tom Brady is different. I'll let u figure out how. No, not the super bowl rings.

It's the banging a smoking hot chick thing, right?

 

[ohio#1nolefan]

So basically we are at the point that an employer(team) must employ a person even though only a fraction of people that doesn't even matter,feels that he should even be employed and if not, the media drags this on and on and on?
Didn't we go through this with Michael Sam? He was cut because he was gay...nothing else. Didn't matter that he wasn't good enough..Then when he went to the CFL and took 2 'personal leaves of absences' before calling it quits. I don't recall that being reported non stop.

Point being, if a NFL team feels that a guy will be an asset, he will be on a team pretty much regardless of personal agenda. These groups and people that whine about everything just fuel the hatred in this country.

 

[OrlandNole]

Tom Brady is different. I'll let u figure out how. No, not the super bowl rings.

I disagree. I'm sure race plays a factor to some degree, it always does, but this is more about ability.

Do you think Blake Bortles would still have a job if he generated this much controversy?
Looking at it from the other side, what about Cam Newton?

 

[West Duval Nole]

Hey, YOU'RE not the one running up the flag, honey.

How do you know he isn't? Not that there would be anything wrong with that (in Seinfeld voice).

 

[goldmom]

I disagree. I'm sure race plays a factor to some degree, it always does, but this is more about ability.

Do you think Blake Bortles would still have a job if he generated this much controversy?
Looking at it from the other side, what about Cam Newton?

Newsflash: Bortles has "lost" his job and if online comments on Jacksonville.com are to be believed, all twelve Jags fans STILL would not want Kap here.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I disagree. I'm sure race plays a factor to some degree, it always does, but this is more about ability.

Do you think Blake Bortles would still have a job if he generated this much controversy?
Looking at it from the other side, what about Cam Newton?

I'd agree with this.

If Antonio Brown did this, he'd still be paid the exact same $$ w/ the Steelers.

That said, Kap is absolutely better than more than a handful of QBs who will be on the opening day 53. The statistics make that irrefutable, but because of the 'baggage' owners have shied away. He's not seen to have enough upside to make the downside/controversy worth it.

I respect what he's done. You can't live life scared to express your opinion on topics you care deeply about just because you're scared of your corporate overlord. What kind of life is that?

He's made his money, he's using it for a variety of community initiatives. He's stayed classy and avoided being all "woe is me". I think history will view him favorably.

 

[BelemNole]

It's not about ability. It's about not wanting to piss off the fans too dumb to understand his protest or his right to protest. He's not a star QB, but if it wasn't for the "controversy" he'd be on a team by now. The numbers don't lie. Yes, if he was a star the owners would likely take the risk - especially if he was a good looking/charismatic white star. But he's not. He's a middle of the pack QB with a giant 'fro who won't smile. So no one will risk upsetting the paste-lickers.

 

[LesClaypool]

It's not about ability. It's about not wanting to piss off the fans too dumb to understand his protest or his right to protest. He's not a star QB, but if it wasn't for the "controversy" he'd be on a team by now. The numbers don't lie. Yes, if he was a star the owners would likely take the risk - especially if he was a good looking/charismatic white star. But he's not. He's a middle of the pack QB with a giant 'fro who won't smile. So no one will risk upsetting the paste-lickers.

Pretty harsh, IMO.

What are those that don't agree with him supposed to do? Pretend to like him...b/c you'll call them names if they don't?

 

[BelemNole]

Pretty harsh, IMO.

What are those that don't agree with him supposed to do? Pretend to like him...b/c you'll call them names if they don't?

There are lots of players in the NFL that I don't like. What do I do? Hope they suck that day. I don't spend my time trying to keep them out of the NFL.

 

[LesClaypool]

There are lots of players in the NFL that I don't like. What do I do? Hope they suck that day. I don't spend my time trying to keep them out of the NFL.

Obviously for very different reasons, I hoped for Tim Tebow and Ray Lewis to be out of the NFL. Not sure what that says about me. Don't care really.

I don't care if an owner chooses to sign him, cut him, or ignore him. That's their business.

Fans can't keep anyone out of the NFL though.

 

[ncnole1975]

I am curious to know if the biggest gripe people have is with the players sitting or the fact the media continues to cover it.

Personally, and I think a lot of others are similar, I tune into sports, TV shows, movies, etc. to escape all the crap going on in the world. Celebrities & Athletes are there to entertain us, and help us enjoy our lives without all the crap going on in the world. When players decide to protest it brings the real world into sports. When celebrities decide to lecture on what they think is right, they bring the real world into entertainment.

If the players want to protest that is their right. It is also my right to turn off the TV or tune into something different. If the media doesn't bring the protests front & center people wouldn't get fed up and turn to other things, which is already happening.

I think the biggest gripe is that most people see sports as an escape. They do not want to pay hard earned money to go to a game and have it turn political. Same could be said for concerts. I went to U2 earlier this summer and had a blast until Bono decided to go on a 30 minute rant regarding his political views. I paid to hear him sing, not his political opinions.
I will also add, a friend of mine claimed to have called DTV to cancel his Sunday ticket subscription. He says the employee on the line told him their phones were ringing off the hook with folks doing the same thing. Who knows what that truly means statistically though.

 

[BelemNole]

lol@
1. Going to a U2 concert and NOT expecting Bono to say something.
2. People canceling Sunday ticket because a few people are quietly kneeling before games.

 

[RangerNole]

lol@
1. Going to a U2 concert and NOT expecting Bono to say something.
2. People canceling Sunday ticket because a few people are quietly kneeling before games.

LOL at the irony. NFL player makes a stand by not stand for the national anthem - it is his right and he is brave and thoughtful. Fans cancel their paid for package to watch the NFL and they are dumb. IMO those that are cancelling and who know the actual number are likely doing it based on the failure of the NFL to address the issue to their satisfaction. This is why I think this issue could really hurt the NFL. If 10 or so players per team start doing this plenty of people will start tuning out.

 

[BelemNole]

based on the failure of the NFL to address the issue to their satisfaction.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

For those saying they view sports as an escape from the daily stresses of the world and politics, I get that.

Sports are a getaway, no doubt. We get to be like 12 year olds again, cheering for the guys wearing our team colors.

At the same time, if an athlete takes a knee quietly near the training table for 2-3 mins, what's the big deal. None of these guys are making a show of it, they go to the back of the sideline and do it away from the field.

You almost have to seek them out to be discomforted by what they're doing.

(and that doesn't even begin to explore, what if the cause is truly worthwhile and will bring progress for a group of people that don't have the platform an NFL player has)

I really wish we could talk about what they're protesting rather than the method they're using because it's about as innocuous as it gets in terms of protest tactics.