Player vaccine question (NO POLITICS)

bc_nolefan

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This is not a debate about masks, vaccines, politics. This is a serious question that I have. I don’t know the answer, so if someone can help me I’d appreciate it.

I get the feeling from listening to our fans and coaches that the key to playing this season successfully, without the potential of forfeiting a game, is to get everyone vaccinated.

We know that vaccines are given to prevent serious illness or death, not infection. So if they’re going to do contact tracing like they did last year, doesn’t anyone think that the emphasis should not only be on vaccines but on maintaining the strict discipline they had last year? If they’re basing everything on a positive Covid test, and then they do contact tracing, it doesn’t matter if these kids have been vaccinated or not. Infections are going to be infections. The vaccination does not prevent infections.

I’m not bringing this up from a political standpoint and I don’t care about anybody’s viewpoints on vaccines, but why does it matter so much if these kids are vaccinated? Not from a health perspective, I’m strictly speaking about playing this season.

Please, save your typing fingers and spare everyone your political viewpoints and CDC data. I just failed to see how anyone can feel safer about us playing through the season based on vaccination rate.

Thanks in advance for your answers if somebody knows how to respond.
 

NoleSix

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A different outlet just updated and said their sources say we should be close to the threshold
 
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AllNoles

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I think the system is set up to advantage those vaxxed so more vaxxed matters. I don’t think they test vaxxed players and they may be excused from tracing. If true then your numbers are going to be lower the more you have vaxxed.
 

Dot Com

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A different outlet just updated and said their sources say we should be close to the threshold
Said last week FSU was between 50-85%. And Norvell has said that they are getting close to the threshold. Doubt anyone has specifics beyond that because it's all on lockdown.

Unfortunately, doubt this thread lasts too long.
 

Sifu Hotman Nole

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This is not a debate about masks, vaccines, politics. This is a serious question that I have. I don’t know the answer, so if someone can help me I’d appreciate it.

I get the feeling from listening to our fans and coaches that the key to playing this season successfully, without the potential of forfeiting a game, is to get everyone vaccinated.

We know that vaccines are given to prevent serious illness or death, not infection. So if they’re going to do contact tracing like they did last year, doesn’t anyone think that the emphasis should not only be on vaccines but on maintaining the strict discipline they had last year? If they’re basing everything on a positive Covid test, and then they do contact tracing, it doesn’t matter if these kids have been vaccinated or not. Infections are going to be infections. The vaccination does not prevent infections.

I’m not bringing this up from a political standpoint and I don’t care about anybody’s viewpoints on vaccines, but why does it matter so much if these kids are vaccinated? Not from a health perspective, I’m strictly speaking about playing this season.

Please, save your typing fingers and spare everyone your political viewpoints and CDC data. I just failed to see how anyone can feel safer about us playing through the season based on vaccination rate.

Thanks in advance for your answers if somebody knows how to respond.
Anyone who is vaccinated will not have to be tested, therefore even if they are positive no one would know and there would be no contact tracing.
 

Shade Tree 55

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Said last week FSU was between 50-85%. And Norvell has said that they are getting close to the threshold. Doubt anyone has specifics beyond that because it's all on lockdown.

Unfortunately, doubt this thread lasts too long.
Remind me what’s important about the 85% number again. If we hit it then no contract tracing and no regular testing?
 
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BShea

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I think the system is set up to advantage those vaxxed so more vaxxed matters. I don’t think they test vaxxed players and they may be excused from tracing. If true then your numbers are going to be lower the more you have vaxxed.
Spot on which is ironic considering those that are vaccinated can equally spread the virus (based upon some articles, carrry a higher viral load to spread).

I’m still waiting on data that shows the impact of Covid on healthy 18-22 old athletes that warrants the 85% watermark and subsequent forfeiture if a team succumbs to an outbreak of positive tests.
 

bwc05nole

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Important to keep this thread apolitical so we can actually discuss this.
85% vaccinated is the number set by the ACC (and most other conferences). To my understanding, reaching that number gets your players out of contract tracing and 3X week testing.
We need all the help we can get to get to 6 wins, so we cannot risk having to forfeit winnable games - simple as that.
 

NeonDeion

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I think the system is set up to advantage those vaxxed so more vaxxed matters. I don’t think they test vaxxed players and they may be excused from tracing. If true then your numbers are going to be lower the more you have vaxxed.
Exactly. My understanding is that unvaxxed players will be tested quite often, but not so for those who have vaccinated. When a positive test is found, they do contract tracing but the sit out period is much smaller for asymptomatic vaxxed players. It is longer for unvaxxed players, even if they show a negative test.

In short, having the vaccine means you are 1) less likely to get tested, 2) when you are tested, it is less likely to be a positive test, 3) if you do test positive you are more likely to be asymptomatic, and 4) if you are vaxxed and test positive, you can return to competition quicker.

In short, if the goal is to reduce the possibility of a forfeit, then the entire team should be vaccinated. Obviously, there are other considerations to be weighed when it comes to taking the vaccine, though I personally feel like most of the objections against getting it are now entirely political.

-Neon
 

SB-Nole

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Exactly. My understanding is that unvaxxed players will be tested quite often, but not so for those who have vaccinated. When a positive test is found, they do contract tracing but the sit out period is much smaller for asymptomatic vaxxed players. It is longer for unvaxxed players, even if they show a negative test.

In short, having the vaccine means you are 1) less likely to get tested, 2) when you are tested, it is less likely to be a positive test, 3) if you do test positive you are more likely to be asymptomatic, and 4) if you are vaxxed and test positive, you can return to competition quicker.

In short, if the goal is to reduce the possibility of a forfeit, then the entire team should be vaccinated. Obviously, there are other considerations to be weighed when it comes to taking the vaccine, though I personally feel like most of the objections against getting it are now entirely political.

-Neon
Accurate and well said.
 

AllNoles

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I think that's right. I also think it's ridiculous. Test or don't test. Trace or don't trace. We know people can get and pass this after being vaxxed, so its not logical to exclude them. Then again, I suspect if I were to ask someone in charge what it is they are trying to accomplish through these protocols, they would not be able to explain it to me.
 

NeonDeion

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I think that's right. I also think it's ridiculous. Test or don't test. Trace or don't trace. We know people can get and pass this after being vaxxed, so its not logical to exclude them. Then again, I suspect if I were to ask someone in charge what it is they are trying to accomplish through these protocols, they would not be able to explain it to me.
I think the reason it doesn't make as much since now (late Aug 2021) as it did back in late Spring/early Summer is that we've since learned that the efficacy of the vaccine declines over time. Of course, we didn't know that in the spring/summer because not enough time had passed. It was thought that vaxxed people wouldn't catch it and therefore couldn't transmit it. That is no longer the case: Vaxxed people are still much less likely to catch Covid, and there is also evidence that they are infectious for shorter periods of time as compared to non-vaxxed people, but it is now clear that vaxxed individuals with breakthrough cases can spread the virus.

-Neon
 
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PopsNole

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I think the reason it doesn't make as much since now (late Aug 2021) as it did back in late Spring/early Summer is that we've since learned that the efficacy of the vaccine declines over time. Of course, we didn't know that in the spring/summer because not enough time had passed. It was thought that vaxxed people wouldn't catch it and therefore couldn't transmit it. That is no longer the case: Vaxxed people are still much less likely to catch Covid, and there is also evidence that they are infectious for shorter periods of time as compared to non-vaxxed people, but it is now clear that vaxxed individuals with breakthrough cases can spread the virus.

-Neon
The not spreading was largely true for Alpha but that has been overtaken by Delta, which vaccinated can spread.
 

bc_nolefan

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Said last week FSU was between 50-85%. And Norvell has said that they are getting close to the threshold. Doubt anyone has specifics beyond that because it's all on lockdown.

Unfortunately, doubt this thread lasts too long.
Sorry. Not my intention whatsoever.
 

jrnix11

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Also if you are vaccinated contact tracing doesn’t effect you if you were around someone who tested positive and I believe you don’t have to sit out or quarantine.
 
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Backinday

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Are we now discussing Virology and ACC has but out guidance and rules for rescheduling and vaccines, I wish people would stop the JUST ASKING line! Please Stop this crap on a football and Florida State Site.. IMHO
 

bc_nolefan

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Important to keep this thread apolitical so we can actually discuss this.
85% vaccinated is the number set by the ACC (and most other conferences). To my understanding, reaching that number gets your players out of contract tracing and 3X week testing.
We need all the help we can get to get to 6 wins, so we cannot risk having to forfeit winnable games - simple as that.
Makes sense if they make exceptions with a threshold of vaccinated that's met.
 

AllNoles

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my personal opinion is that any vaccination threshold should be subject to a player's level of antibodies present.
I don't like that because so far it looks like having had it makes it very unlikely to get again, but it's not defined by the presence of antibodies. After a while you won't ahve active antibodies, but your Tcells should have the imprint of the antibody ready if reinfected.

Here is the Cleveland Clinic study I posted in another thread, which shows that natural immunity is pretty dang strong. This is why it bothers me so much that they don't capture/report the relationship between getting Covid and getting it again. If numbers bear out that natural immunity is as good or better than the vaccine, that has some real public health implications.
 

GbrNole

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Makes sense if they make exceptions with a threshold of vaccinated that's met.
this is also my reasoning that antibody tests and levels should be a reasonable guideline to include in the population of a football program. it shouldn't matter how you achieved them, the effect is largely the same.
 
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GbrNole

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I don't like that because so far it looks like having had it makes it very unlikely to get again, but it's not defined by the presence of antibodies. After a while you won't ahve active antibodies, but your Tcells should have the imprint of the antibody ready if reinfected.

Here is the Cleveland Clinic study I posted in another thread, which shows that natural immunity is pretty dang strong. This is why it bothers me so much that they don't capture/report the relationship between getting Covid and getting it again. If numbers bear out that natural immunity is as good or better than the vaccine, that has some real public health implications.
fully agree but it's a more complex task to determine immunity at the T cell level. The antibody test is at least pretty quick and quite straightforward and presence of antibodies should be an automatic qualifier as vaccine equivalency.

we're applying this to a population of about 150-200 (incl walk-ons, coaches and support staff). not the population in general.
 
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Sterling_archer2

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I think that's right. I also think it's ridiculous. Test or don't test. Trace or don't trace. We know people can get and pass this after being vaxxed, so its not logical to exclude them. Then again, I suspect if I were to ask someone in charge what it is they are trying to accomplish through these protocols, they would not be able to explain it to me.
My thoughts exactly, it's almost* like the science is not be utilized to develop policy.

*Relax, I said almost
 

AllNoles

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fully agree but it's a more complex task to determine immunity at the T cell level. The antibody test is at least pretty quick and quite straightforward and presence of antibodies should be an automatic qualifier as vaccine equivalency.
Or, we could capture the data and evaluate it and see if there is any complex need there or not. If numbers bear out that X% of those who have had it tend to get it again, a lot changes depending on what X is. That is especially true if X is lower than the percentage of those who get it after being vaccinated.

I get what you're saying, but it seems like there is an effort to keep the whole issue of the impact of having had it off the table for some reason.