Police to arrest 10 in LSU frat death

[GwinnettNole]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-arrest-10-people-lsu-fraternity-pledges-death-142745106.html

Between this one and the PSU incident that cost the life of a kid, frats are not getting good publicity.

One thing I'll say is it's amazing no one died or got seriously hurt from the frat I was in for a year at FSU. I actually hated it (and still do) and will try to keep my kids from going greek. I know this type of thing can happen anywhere-- greek or not-- but the frats tend to encourage the behavior of getting completely hammered every day/night. At least when I was in school....

 

[surfnole]

Although tragic, this does not seem as bad as the PSU incident, yet. No mention of a cover up or denying medical help. It was common to let guys "sleep it off" in college. We did that when I was in high school too. Best to stick to beer in this situations. Hard to die drinking beer.

 

[seminole97]

Hard to die drinking beer.

 

[goldmom]

18 year olds aren't well known for level headed thinking. Just very sad.

 

[QuaZ2002]

It's really hard for me to see how these kids should be facing prison sentences for this. As others have said, we did similar stuff in college and just got lucky I guess? Unfortunately, tragic stuff like this occasionally happens. That being said, colleges really do need to aggressively crack down on this type of hazing. Even when I was in a frat I thought it was stupid.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Although tragic, this does not seem as bad as the PSU incident, yet. No mention of a cover up or denying medical help. It was common to let guys "sleep it off" in college. We did that when I was in high school too. Best to stick to beer in this situations. Hard to die drinking beer.

Yep - it happened when I was at FSU and KA had a pledge die of alcohol poisoning. If that same incident happened today then there would have been some charges I bet.

 

[seminole97]

It's really hard for me to see how these kids should be facing prison sentences for this.

My first thought was that this would increase and spread the associated misery of this tragedy, but I'm hard pressed to see it furthering justice.

As others have said, we did similar stuff in college and just got lucky I guess? Unfortunately, tragic stuff like this occasionally happens. That being said, colleges really do need to aggressively crack down on this type of hazing. Even when I was in a frat I thought it was stupid.

I'd think more emphasis should be on the private club this happened in, not the university.
Seems like the threat of lawsuits bankrupting the national organization would help create internal pressure to help prevent this.

 

[DanC78]

If I were a fraternity president I'd make it a rule that pledges stay entirely sober for 2 semesters after their accepted.

I'd make them be designated drivers, administrative help, house keeping, etc

If they drink it would have to be off campus, and when they are not on the schedule; would have to be sober while in house or on campus.

 

[Ohio1nole]

This is one of the reasons I was never in a frat in college or never had the want to be in one..

Like you have to pass all these "tests" or "initiations" to join this club.. then you have to pay money, attend meetings, events and all of this other mandatory nonsense..

Me being an introvert plays into not wanting to be around that type of crowd, but the juice didn't seem worth the squeeze to me..

Does it make getting girls easier? It's college, there are girls every where.

Make more friends? Again, there's tons of people everywhere in college..

Just seemed like too much of an unnecessary hassle to me

 

[RunRonnieRun]

This is one of the reasons I was never in a frat in college or never had the want to be in one..

Like you have to pass all these "tests" or "initiations" to join this club.. then you have to pay money, attend meetings, events and all of this other mandatory nonsense..

Me being an introvert plays into not wanting to be around that type of crowd, but the juice didn't seem worth the squeeze to me..

Does it make getting girls easier? It's college, there are girls every where.

Make more friends? Again, there's tons of people everywhere in college..

Just seemed like too much of an unnecessary hassle to me

How was dorm living for four years, nerd?

 

[Ohio1nole]

How was dorm living for four years, nerd?

Outside of those pesky RA's, it was blast!

 

[goldmom]

How was dorm living for four years, nerd?

Ronnie, you're beginning to draw my attention. Now, as others can attest, that can be a good thing, so my question is which fraternity were you in?

 

[ChiefWB]

Yep - it happened when I was at FSU and KA had a pledge die of alcohol poisoning. If that same incident happened today then there would have been some charges I bet.

KA at FSU has never had a pledge die from alcohol poisoning. Back in the early 90's the chapter was suspended when a pledge was found unconscious and in pretty bad shape. The family did sue but no charges were brought.

 

[RunRonnieRun]

Ronnie, you're beginning to draw my attention. Now, as others can attest, that can be a good thing, so my question is which fraternity were you in?

Kappa Sig

 

[goldmom]

Kappa Sig

Aha. Nuff said.

 

[RunRonnieRun]

Aha. Nuff said.

Elaborate, anchor girl.

 

[F4Gary]

My fraternity (Fiji's) never used alcohol in any pledge/brother function. That was back in the early 70's.

 

[goldmom]

Elaborate, anchor girl.

Your house always seemed a bit "snooty".

 

[seminoleed]

As a double legacy, I enjoyed getting by with minimal hazing, and loved almost all my time in it. And yes, I was a KA, but I always believed it meant "Knights of Alcohol".

 

[surfnole]

If I were a fraternity president I'd make it a rule that pledges stay entirely sober for 2 semesters after their accepted.

.

Are you serious? My own parents couldn't keep me sober when I was 16 regardless of threats to get kicked out of the house.

Fraternities are only a target because they have an organizational structure that can be attacked. I am sure that kids in college die from drinking and drugs that don't belong to fraternities, but there is no organization to blame.

Several years ago a gunman at UCF had a dorm room full of loaded weapons, got found out, and killed himself. He was planning an attack on students. Yet there was no crackdown in the University for permitting this behavior. This is in spite of the fact that he was in his mid 20s and hadn't paid his dorm bills. No ban of dorms.

Yet, in another incident, UCF forced all fraternities and sororities to depledge their entire classes after a fraternity hazing incident. Panhellenic (sp?), got smart and threatened a lawsuit. UCF backed off. On the other hand every fraternity had to kick out their pledges because of one incident at one fraternity. They should have lawyered up too.

There was a train on a girl in Landis hall in 1981, but it wasn't frat related, so no news.

I can't speak for fraternities today, but I was never forced to drink or hazed in the early 80s, but beer was plentiful and as the Eagles say "She can't take me anywhere I don't already know how to go".

 

[goldmom]

As a double legacy, I enjoyed getting by with minimal hazing, and loved almost all my time in it. And yes, I was a KA, but I always believed it meant "Knights of Alcohol".

Or drugs. What years?

 

[seminoleed]

Or drugs. What years?

'69-'73

 

[Banditking]

Are you serious? My own parents couldn't keep me sober when I was 16 regardless of threats to get kicked out of the house.

Fraternities are only a target because they have an organizational structure that can be attacked. I am sure that kids in college die from drinking and drugs that don't belong to fraternities, but there is no organization to blame.

Several years ago a gunman at UCF had a dorm room full of loaded weapons, got found out, and killed himself. He was planning an attack on students. Yet there was no crackdown in the University for permitting this behavior. This is in spite of the fact that he was in his mid 20s and hadn't paid his dorm bills. No ban of dorms.

Yet, in another incident, UCF forced all fraternities and sororities to depledge their entire classes after a fraternity hazing incident. Panhellenic (sp?), got smart and threatened a lawsuit. UCF backed off. On the other hand every fraternity had to kick out their pledges because of one incident at one fraternity. They should have lawyered up too.

There was a train on a girl in Landis hall in 1981, but it wasn't frat related, so no news.

I can't speak for fraternities today, but I was never forced to drink or hazed in the early 80s, but beer was plentiful and as the Eagles say "She can't take me anywhere I don't already know how to go".

Wasn't in a fraternity but:

- there seems to be a culture of alcohol excess associated with frats
- hazing is also stereotypically associated with frats.
- both activities seem to be structurally part of the process. Basically, institutional staples.

The university as a whole does not engage/sanction either behavior. Sure, the general u community may also do these things (minus the hazing) but they don't tend to be tied to the leadership of any particular private group. And, frats are basically private party clubs. That's their purpose. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I agree with a prior poster. If one was to sue anyone, it would be the private party club, yes?

I do agree that the students should be charged. Doing so has the potential to prevent future deaths in the name of partying.

 

[runkpanole]

I tend agree with the crowd this isn’t isolated to frats. I was not in a frat, but man I loved my drink and so did many of my friends. I will say the analogy above about banning dorms due to a gunman is one of the dumber things I’ve read in a while.

 

[goldmom]

'69-'73

Oh My God. Do I know you? *
*Please say no.

 

[Banditking]

I tend agree with the crowd this isn’t isolated to frats. I was not in a frat, but man I loved my drink and so did many of my friends. I will say the analogy above about banning dorms due to a gunman is one of the dumber things I’ve read in a while.

There is precedent though. Eg the famu band hazing that resulted in the death of a student resulted in all sorts of legal ramifications.

The problem to me is the institutional expectation or implication that the behavior is necessary for membership. This is why it's different from the general university community. There is a coercion element. And, with alcoholi, kind of like in rape arguments, somewhere in thAt equation you have a loss of consent issue. In my opinion, this is why a manslaughter charge makes sense.

 

[SoddyNole]

Kappa Sig

Where was your house located? I went by most if not all of the frats, free beer, during rush week in 87 and do not recall KS.

 

[noleclone2]

I tend agree with the crowd this isn’t isolated to frats. I was not in a frat, but man I loved my drink and so did many of my friends. I will say the analogy above about banning dorms due to a gunman is one of the dumber things I’ve read in a while.

Agree with this. I was in a fraternity at William and Mary and in the few times someone was seriously sick it was always self inflicted, not out of someone forced to drink. And I think many of these cases (not all) are similarly not fraternity members forcing/hazing people to drink until death but rather more the person consuming way too much on their own. We all have seen this girl/guy, drinking way too much hard stuff way too fast. And the people around are not noticing because nobody is counting until the person is full alcohol poisoned. The problem the fraternity then has and will screw up on is getting that individual to hospital when it is needed out of fear of repercussions for underage drinking to all involved, especially the fraternity. There is not that fear in an apartment or dorm hall.

 

[ZZ828]

I spent my first semester in a dorm at FSU in the late 80s, and I can tell you that there was as much drinking going on in that dorm than there was in the fraternity I pledged. We even had one kid get taken to the hospital for alcohol poisoning after a night if drinking. The sickest I ever got was from a night of drinking with people in my dorm.

As a pledge, I was never forced to drink, and we even had a rule that pledges were not allowed to drink liquor.

 

[noleclone2]

Check out the interesting Table 1 in this document as it breaks down alcohol poisoning deaths by age group 2010-2012:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6353a2.htm?s_cid=mm6353a2_w#tab1

Definitely is not just a fraternity nor even a college thing...

 

[seminoleed]

Oh My God. Do I know you? *
*Please say no.

Possibly. Why would that upset you? After all, you're "Goldmom, hot FSU babe" according to Luke at Duke. In all seriousness, if you were around the house back in those days, we probably at least met, but I was rarely there. I stayed at my apartment; house life wasn't my thing.

 

[goldmom]

Possibly. Why would that upset you? After all, you're "Goldmom, hot FSU babe" according to Luke at Duke. In all seriousness, if you were around the house back in those days, we probably at least met, but I was rarely there. I stayed at my apartment; house life wasn't my thing.

Nothing like that - I was just kidding. Although I knew several of the guys in the house at the time who were servers at our house. And one of my classmates from high school was an active there as well, although two years ahead of you.
Luke from Duke - what a blast from the past LOL

 

[surfnole]

I tend agree with the crowd this isn’t isolated to frats. I was not in a frat, but man I loved my drink and so did many of my friends. I will say the analogy above about banning dorms due to a gunman is one of the dumber things I’ve read in a while.

Don't agree. A few years back, UCF forced all sororities and fraternities to have their pledges depledge because of an incident at one fraternity. The national group of sororities Panhellenic (sp?) sent a legal letter to UCF and they quickly backed off. IFC (Fraternity org) lacked the balls to do so I guess. So several hundred people suffered for the actions of one. Every fraternity was forced to depledge all their pledges because of the actions of one fraternity.

University admins are steeped in PC and they don't like groups they can't control, and they violate civil rights in their penalties. For example, at my fraternity at FSU, who is now off campus, FSU banned all brothers from associating with any pledge. Clearly unconstitutional. What right does anybody have to say who you can talk to.

Why not blame the dorm RAs for failing to control the residents?

Yes, some fraternities are guilty of bad behavior, but the college admins are on a witch hunt too. They can suspend fraternities on innuendo etc....

According to today's standards, I was hazed due to mental and verbal abuse during hell week. I was never forced to drink. Never physically abused. What I experienced was much less than what our military experiences in boot camp or officer school. Of course we all knew it was a game and 99% of the people made it through, so we just played the game.

 

[RunRonnieRun]

Where was your house located? I went by most if not all of the frats, free beer, during rush week in 87 and do not recall KS.

S Woodward, right across from the old dustbowl parking lot. Caddy corner from where the FSUPD station now stands.