🥎 Softball 🥎 Supers and WCWS Thread

Lanoles

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For those softball fans who love FSU softball and Women's College Softball, please use this thread until a Champion is crowned.

# 1 Oklahoma vs #16 Central Florida
# 2 is now Mississippi State (hosts super) vs Arizona
# 3 Virginia Tech vs #14 Florida
# 4 Arkansas vs Texas
# 5 UCLA vs #12 Duke
# 6 is now Stanford (Hosts super) vs Oregon State
# 7 Oklahoma State vs # 10 Clemson
# 8 Arizona State vs #9 Northwestern

PAC 12 has 5 teams out of 7.
ACC has 3 teams out of 6.
BIG 12 has 3 teams out of 3.
SEC has 3 teams out of 12.
B1G has 1 team out of 7
AAC has 1 team out of 3.

Seeded teams lost 3 SEC, 1 ACC, 1 PAC
 
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P4KNole

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Interesting. If you look at the top 16 seeds, 11 made it to the supers. The Pac12 went from 3 to 5 teams! The Big12 went from 2 to 3 teams. The SEC lost 2 and of course the ACC lost 1.
 

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I think the SEC lost three seeds # 6 Alabama; #11 Tennessee and #15 Missouri, but got back unseeded Mississippi St. but I could be wrong.

Also looking at all teams from the Power 5 conferences only 25% of SEC teams moved on. The Big 10 was even less at 14% while the ACC was 50%; Pac 12 at 71% and the Big 12 at 100%
 

P4KNole

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I think the SEC lost three seeds # 6 Alabama; #11 Tennessee and #15 Missouri, but got back unseeded Mississippi St. but I could be wrong.

Also looking at all teams from the Power 5 conferences only 25% of SEC teams moved on. The Big 10 was even less at 14% while the ACC was 50%; Pac 12 at 71% and the Big 12 at 100%
Yes, I think you are correct. I was just netting it out. They lost 3 picked up 1.

I was just looking at the top 16 seeds, because I would imagine if we went back 5 years so, maybe longer, the vast majority of them do move on to the supers.

When the seeds came out, the SEC had 5, ACC 4, Pac12 4, Big12 2, and UCF. After regionals, the Pac12 has 5, the Big12, SEC, and ACC have 3, Big10 1, and UCF.

Obviously the Pac12 and Big12 did great. The others did ok.

The biggest surprise for me was Arizona. Their pitching has been horrible! A team ERA over 4 horrible! But they went and won 8-3, 2-0, and 1-0. They are a good hitting team, so IF they can pitch like that this weekend, I think they'll win. Of course, I didn't think there was a chance we wouldn't be hosting, so what do I know??? lol
 

Lanoles

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The last 10 years there has been a major shift in softball from the West Coast. From 1988 to 2011 only OU and Michigan won the title 1 time, then since then only in 2019 did UCLA win. Then Ala Fla and OU won. 2018 FSU won for the 1st ACC winner.

Not sure how the Big 10 got 7 teams in, but the ACC did not commitment to softball until Duke and Clemson started teams in last several seasons. The Big 12 only has 7 teams which is why they don't get more teams in. The result is conferences playing longer get seeds, even if a 3 seed in a regional. The more teams in the more a conference should have in Supers.

This is also why the RPI as calculated is a poor measure. It simply looks at W's and L's and not the strength or quality of them. That is a discussion for the off season and applies to all sports where it is used
 
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P4KNole

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If the RPI was all they used, then I would totally agree with you! However, it's not. If it was, then Texas would have hosted instead of Washington.

I also find the formula interesting and would love to know the reasoning. At its face, i dont agree with it at all! I would also like to know how big of a role it plays. I don't think its that huge, but it is important. I only use it because its easy and is pretty close, whether it should be or not. I also like Massey's ranking.
 
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Lanoles

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As long as umps don't call it, they won't. Similar to stepping out of box to hire the ball.

Watched part of a game where the batter did so (with 2 strikes and 2 outs) which should have been 3rd Out, instead a walk and HR followed, which resulted in the win.

Either eliminate the rules or train umpires how to call the rules.

Also make stepping out of the box, with clear evidence, a reviewable play, especially when the batter should be called out, no difference the any other out call.
 

P4KNole

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I don’t understand why VT doesn’t simply teach her not to pitch illegally!
What's really funny is her coaches actually getting upset about the calls. Apparently one of them got thrown out. lol

I worked a tournament 2 years ago and had her for a game. Thankfully, I was behind the plate so I didn't have to worry about her leaps, but she was called 7 times in that game. lol

Her coaches were great and they understood. They didn't necessarily like it, but....

The reason for the "inconsistency" in calling it is because of the trench the pitchers dig during the game. As long as the toe is inside the hole, she generally won't get called. Her toe can be off the ground, but in the hole, and won't get called. I only watched a couple of innings and every one that was called was obvious! Her pitching coach was acting like a moron. He knows better.
 

Lanoles

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The 'leaping' or 'crow hopping' is easy to call, but it has to be either the 1st base or 3rd base umpire as opposed to the plate or 2nd base umpire. When the tv replay is from the side it becomes obvious whether or not there is a trench. The issue the umps who do not call it everytime it happens. It is a delayed dead ball call and should actually be signaled by the ump 'before' the ball gets to the plate. Otherwise the decision to call it is effected by the result of the pitch. (Kinda like a holding penalty call after the play goes for huge yardage).

The effect is the offensive team can take the result of the pitch or it becomes a ball. Going back to the game she pitched against FSU in Tallahassee they did not call it the first few innings and she shut down the bats, score got to 11- 0 then the guy started calling it almost every pitch until they finally took her out of the game. The last game when she came it, it was called again and both the pitching coach and head coach got thrown out. So it is not like they did not know it happened and happened alot.

Just wish all base umps called it all season anytime it happened. That is the only thing that puts a stop to it. Or the other option is to let the pitchers leap like they do internationally.
 

Lanoles

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Supers Update

#1 seed is #1 Oklahoma
#2 Seed is unseeded Arizona
#3 Seed is #14
#4 Seed is unseeded Texas
#5 Seed is # 5 UCLA
#6 Seed is unseeded Oregon State
#7 Seed is # 7 Oklahoma State
#8 Seed is #9 Northwestern

Opening games are:

#1 Oklahoma vs # 8 Northwestern
#2 Arizona vs #7 Oklahoma State
#3 #14 Florida vs Oregon State
#4 Texas vs #5 UCLA

3 PAC 12 Teams
3 Big 12 Teams
1 SEC team
1 B1G team
 
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P4KNole

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The 'leaping' or 'crow hopping' is easy to call, but it has to be either the 1st base or 3rd base umpire as opposed to the plate or 2nd base umpire. When the tv replay is from the side it becomes obvious whether or not there is a trench. The issue the umps who do not call it everytime it happens. It is a delayed dead ball call and should actually be signaled by the ump 'before' the ball gets to the plate. Otherwise the decision to call it is effected by the result of the pitch. (Kinda like a holding penalty call after the play goes for huge yardage).

The effect is the offensive team can take the result of the pitch or it becomes a ball. Going back to the game she pitched against FSU in Tallahassee they did not call it the first few innings and she shut down the bats, score got to 11- 0 then the guy started calling it almost every pitch until they finally took her out of the game. The last game when she came it, it was called again and both the pitching coach and head coach got thrown out. So it is not like they did not know it happened and happened alot.

Just wish all base umps called it all season anytime it happened. That is the only thing that puts a stop to it. Or the other option is to let the pitchers leap like they do internationally.
lol...it's a lot easier to see on TV after the call, than it is in real time.
Actually, if you have a 2, 3 or 4 person system, all umpires can call it. Years ago, it used to be the plate has the hands and the bases have the feet. That's not the case any more.

We almost always know about pitchers before hand. We talk about it and call it from the beginning.

Everyone thinks they know about umpiring, but alas...they don't. I've had some rather humorous conversations with fans during games and after.
 

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Considering I started officiating softball in the military starting in 1972 and have called off and on until about 2000. Yes I have called both slow pitch and fast pitch so I speak for experience not television. If one cannot see it on the field when it occurs then they don't need to be on the field.

As as side bar while I did not call Edie Feigner, "The King and his court" he was the masterful fast pitch pitcher. I did see him/team several times while in the military. Striking batters out from 2nd base blindfolded. Never wished to try and hit off him as I knew it was hopeless.
 
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As an umpire you might know how a team gets a triple play without any defensive player touching a batted ball. (i.e. can;t have all three runners leaving early as then you don't have a batted ball). Will let you think about that one for a while, and yes it happened in a youth state championship playoff game.
 

P4KNole

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Considering I started officiating softball in the military starting in 1972 and have called off and on until about 2000. Yes I have called both slow pitch and fast pitch so I speak for experience not television. If one cannot see it on the field when it occurs then they don't need to be on the field.

As as side bar while I did not call Edie Feigner, "The King and his court" he was the masterful fast pitch pitcher. I did see him/team several times while in the military. Striking batters out from 2nd base blindfolded. Never wished to try and hit off him as I knew it was hopeless.
Wow!!! You saw everything on the field? Never missed anything? You must have been the greatest umpire of all time! We could all learn from you! lol
 

P4KNole

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As an umpire you might know how a team gets a triple play without any defensive player touching a batted ball. (i.e. can;t have all three runners leaving early as then you don't have a batted ball). Will let you think about that one for a while, and yes it happened in a youth state championship playoff game.
I have no idea. Have to be in a situation with runners on 1st and 2nd, or bases loaded with no outs....infield fly rule situation. Pop up in the infield would be one out. One of the runners on base over-runs the runner in front of him/her would be second out, and then the batted ball hits the ground and then hits one of the other runners while that runner is not touching a base.

On one hand, I can't imagine all that happening, but on the other hand, I've seen some hilarious things happen when the ball does drop in an infield fly situation.
 

squiffynole

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lol...it's a lot easier to see on TV after the call, than it is in real time.
Actually, if you have a 2, 3 or 4 person system, all umpires can call it. Years ago, it used to be the plate has the hands and the bases have the feet. That's not the case any more.

We almost always know about pitchers before hand. We talk about it and call it from the beginning.

Everyone thinks they know about umpiring, but alas...they don't. I've had some rather humorous conversations with fans during games and after.
I don't know how is it even possible for a home base ump to watch the pitcher's feet, the batter's feet and determine balls and strikes all in a split second. I mean I'll poke fun at the game officials but see some of their tasks as mission impossible with kludges like me second guessing everything.
 

runningnole

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The wheels are really coming off! And I really thought VT was the best team in the ACC (next to us, of course)!
 

P4KNole

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I don't know how is it even possible for a home base ump to watch the pitcher's feet, the batter's feet and determine balls and strikes all in a split second. I mean I'll poke fun at the game officials but see some of their tasks as mission impossible with kludges like me second guessing everything.
Oh you're correct! The plate ump isn't going to call it unless it's ridiculously obvious. However, he/she can and I, myself, have called it once or twice. When I did Lemley's game a couple years ago, I'd have called it, because she is one of the worst I've seen. Believe it or not, watching both the batter's and pitcher's feet is very easy.
 
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Lanoles

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Out here at the WCWS, Day 1 was long day as four (4) games played from 11 AM to almost midnight. Results are the three (3) PAC 12 teams all lost and the three (3) Big 12 teams won. Fortunately, was in low 70's and overcast and dropped to low 60's after sunset.

General observations from the baseline seats is the differences between umpires' strike zones. Those watching on TV can confirm or deny. As expected OU blew out Northwestern. The NW pitcher had difficulty adjusting to her umpire's strike zone. Once OU got runners on it was curtains. Noted that with a huge lead OU would not pinch for the 'star players. This is why they likely have the stats they have. Texas then upset UCLA as their bats went silent. In the evening Session UF beat out manned Oregon State, was not ever really in the game. The last game was the best game as after 3 scoreless innings Oklahoma State took a 1 - lead, then UA took the lead with a 2-run homer only to have OSU have a 3-run homer to retake lead again. With no dog in the hunt, was the best game of the day,

Friday's games are losers brackets games. At least 1 PAC 12 team heads home and one moves to Sunday's games. (most likely UCLA and Arizona move on while Northwestern and Oregon State head home.)

Saturdays games are similar except one Big 12 team will drop to losers bracket and one moves to Monday's Pool Championship game. (Most likely OU moves to winner bracket while Texas falls into losers bracket while it appears to be a tossup between OSU and UF but UF did hold back Hightower.)
 
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Lanoles

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Back after Friday's games and as expected UCLA and Arizona move on with Northwestern and Oregon State head home.

Saturday's game is OU vs Texas then UF vs Oklahoma State, Weather starts warming up but thankfully rain should be out of the picture.
 
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ParooKid

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Makes me sick to my stomach knowing we beat every one of those teams except Oklahoma. We should be playing for the NC!! Makes me wanna puke every time I think about it, which is about ten times a day.
 
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ParooKid

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Anyone know what Syd S is doing? Is she playing anywhere? All Star team, some special team, pro league etc.? It's just not right for her career to be over so suddenly.:mad:
 

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Makes me sick to my stomach knowing we beat every one of those teams except Oklahoma. We should be playing for the NC!! Makes me wanna puke every time I think about it, which is about ten times a day.
Makes me extra sick to see who is still in the winner's bracket. Don't even want to pay attention to it.
 
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ParooKid

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I just received my autographed softball I ordered. Autographed by Syd, Kat, Mikalea, and Daniel. It's going up on the shelf with all my Bobby Bowden autographed memorbilia.
 

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Anyone know what Syd S is doing? Is she playing anywhere? All Star team, some special team, pro league etc.? It's just not right for her career to be over so suddenly.:mad:
My understanding is she has a Job.
 

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Saturday game 1 went as most expected. Not that OU needs it the strike zone was tight. Pitchers are have a tough time against OU anyway, but inconsistent zones and tight zones make it harder. Game 2 was a pitching duel and OSU's bats worked a little.

On to the losers bracket games today UCLA vs UF and Texas vs Arizona
 

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Down to four teams, three Big 12 and one PAC 12, three teams FSU went 4 - 0 against. ( Yes what could have been but was still a really good season, just a bad Sunday.)

Gators had hard time scoring Saturday and Sunday, UCLA did enough to win followed by a good game between Texas and Arizona but another Big 12 team beat UofA with a three run home run in late innings.

Like most others I'd expect UCLA to get beat by OU as they don't have the pitching to shut down OU nor the offense to keep up with them. OSU has gone with Kelly Maxwell (lefty) in first two games. Interesting to see if the coach goes with her again as she has had an extra day's rest and if they win will have another days rest. I'd expect a low scoring game and possible OSU pulls it out with pitching but Texas has HR power as they used on Sunday.

Looking like an all Big 12 Championship. Both Texas and OSU did be OU during the season. Pitching and ump behind the plate strike zone will play a huge part. Tight zone OU wins easily as they are patient. A bit wider zone means OU's hitters can't just sit and wait for a certain pitch.
 
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