United Airlines Video

[Fijimn]

Anyone seen this one? Plane overbooked and UA didn't have seats to fly its employees to the next part, so they offered $800. No one took it, so they randomly selected 4 passengers. One passenger refused so they dragged him off the plane. See what happens when a Chicago company buys a nice southern airline like Continental.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3297228/doctor-dragged-off-united-airlines-flight-overbooked-video/

 

[LesClaypool]

Someone's getting a payday.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Anyone seen this one? Plane overbooked and UA didn't have seats to fly its employees to the next part, so they offered $800. No one took it, so they randomly selected 4 passengers. One passenger refused so they dragged him off the plane. See what happens when a Chicago company buys a nice southern airline like Continental.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3297228/doctor-dragged-off-united-airlines-flight-overbooked-video/

Jebus. That could maybe even sink United. I pretty much hate flying with them anyways but I always thought Delta was just as bad. Not anymore, Delta it is.

 

[HilltopperNole]

Couldn't happen to a better company, except maybe comcast

 

[seminole97]

Someone's getting a payday.

Probably, but I wouldn't give him one.
It's not his plane. Somewhere in that fine print it says they can tell you to get off their plane.

"Passengers on all U.S. flights are required to obey the orders of crew members, including flight attendants. Refusing is a federal crime that can (and often does) result in the defiant passenger(s) being taken off the plane in handcuffs and delivered into the tender warmth that is the FBI."

His entitlement mentality (after all, he's a doctor) no doubt played a roll...

You can passively resist if you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to play along with the rules you're trying to establish.

 

[RangerNole]

Interesting. I went through the airline melt down this past week and it was not pretty. People were screaming at airline employees, doing the I am calling your boss right now thing, making very rude comments and being complete jacka%%. Now I get it being delayed and stuck sucks; but screaming, threatening and treating someone that maybe can help you doesn't seem like a good plan. When I finally got to Atl. I saw the Delta lines and wasn't going to stand there for 3 hours. I walked down the concourse till I saw a boarding area where only 2 people were in line. The lady in front of me was just abusing the Delta employee; I mean I wanted to punch her in the face. When she was done I walked up and said hey dude bet your day can't end soon enough. Asked him the info I needed and for his advice; which was get a car and drive to Sav. from Atl. I did wait 2 days for my luggage; and then just did the 2 plus hour round trip to Sav. and got it myself. It wasn't fun but I am pretty sure the airlines didn't want to deal with it either. IMO people have gotten so used to putting crap on line and talking to people on line with no consequences; they think they can do it in person too. The world would be better off if you got beat up in HS for being an jerk; then you would realize that being a jerk isn't the way to go.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Probably, but I wouldn't give him one.
It's not his plane. Somewhere in that fine print it says they can tell you to get off their plane.

"Passengers on all U.S. flights are required to obey the orders of crew members, including flight attendants. Refusing is a federal crime that can (and often does) result in the defiant passenger(s) being taken off the plane in handcuffs and delivered into the tender warmth that is the FBI."

His entitlement mentality (after all, he's a doctor) no doubt played a roll...

You can passively resist if you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to play along with the rules you're trying to establish.

So it's ok for the airlines to intentionally overbook the flight so they can make more money and then physically harm you removing you from the seat you paid for because they can't find enough people willing to sell their seats back to the airline? Not in my book.

 

[Finance85]

It was a seriously bad week for Delta. They cancelled one of my flights Friday morning, rebooking me to arrive 40 hours later. I was able to get a flight on American instead. I've been a loyal Delta customer for over 25 years. They can't control the weather, but they can control of a lot of other things and have been doing a poor job of it lately.

 

[Finance85]

So it's ok for the airlines to intentionally overbook the flight so they can make more money and then physically harm you removing you from the seat you paid for because they can't find enough people willing to sell their seats back to the airline? Not in my book.

Airlines usually take care of this before the flight boards, upping the offer until enough people accept. I've seen the voucher offer go to $1500 before. Bumping compensation rules are a lot better than they used to be.

 

[Fijimn]

Probably, but I wouldn't give him one.
It's not his plane. Somewhere in that fine print it says they can tell you to get off their plane.

"Passengers on all U.S. flights are required to obey the orders of crew members, including flight attendants. Refusing is a federal crime that can (and often does) result in the defiant passenger(s) being taken off the plane in handcuffs and delivered into the tender warmth that is the FBI."

His entitlement mentality (after all, he's a doctor) no doubt played a roll...

You can passively resist if you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to play along with the rules you're trying to establish.

Or they could of upped the offer until they found 4 seats. I imagine if they had gotten to 1000 or 1200, they would have found it. Or paid another airline to fly their employees. Or used one of there many private planes to fly their employees. There were several better options.

 

[RangerNole]

So it's ok for the airlines to intentionally overbook the flight so they can make more money and then physically harm you removing you from the seat you paid for because they can't find enough people willing to sell their seats back to the airline? Not in my book.

They didn't overbook. They had 100's of flights cancelled and couldn't get planes east of Miss. due to weather. When they did finally get plans east they were playing catch up and had a bad plan. I am not saying they did a great job; but they also don't control weather.

 

[cfbfan23]

His entitlement mentality (after all, he's a doctor) no doubt played a roll...

I think most people feel entitled to the seat they paid for. Not just a doctor thing. You get the vouchers high enough, people will give up their seats.

 

[travnole]

Anytime I get flight delays, I try and get a seat as close to the counter to watch the passengers line up to freak out on the ticket counter. It's very entertaining, watching both the way people bug out and also how the ticket person handles the same requests over and over...

 

[FSUTribe76]

They didn't overbook. They had 100's of flights cancelled and couldn't get planes east of Miss. due to weather. When they did finally get plans east they were playing catch up and had a bad plan. I am not saying they did a great job; but they also don't control weather.

He wasn't rerouted from what I can tell from the reporting. According to the newspaper articles, the doctor had paid for the flight and it was overbooked by one. They found someone to take a voucher and THEN United said we have four employees that need to fly and booted four more. The doctor was allegedly chosen at random.

I would agree with your argument if there were flights cancelled due to weather and this was a makeup flight or something of that ilk, but the doctor allegedly had an ordinary ticket and he was removed so United could move employees.

 

[Fijimn]

Good thing he wasn't wearing yoga pants, they may have shot him.

 

[runkpanole]

I've seen people in airports act like absolute children. I honestly would never want to work for an airline. Poor kid in Tallahassee once just trying to earn a little money and free flights had to have TPD come into the terminal b/c of weather in the southern part of the state messing things up. The young man wasn't responsible for the weather.

 

[FSUTribe76]

I've seen people in airports act like absolute children. I honestly would never want to work for an airline. Poor kid in Tallahassee once just trying to earn a little money and free flights had to have TPD come into the terminal b/c of weather in the southern part of the state messing things up. The young man wasn't responsible for the weather.

Most airline companies seem to intentionally hire terrible customer service. It doesn't seem to be a few "bad apples" in my experience but a purposeful plan to make it as miserable an experience as possible.

 

[goldmom]

Jebus. That could maybe even sink United. I pretty much hate flying with them anyways but I always thought Delta was just as bad. Not anymore, Delta it is.

Even though Delta still has not 100% ramped back up after the "bad storms" of last week? That was crazy and incompetent, if you ask me.

 

[Random_John]

I hope his patients didn't need him because doctors don't really do anything to help the world you know? Why couldn't the employees fly another airline or take another flight? Was Greyhound booked? I wonder how long until a class action law suit comes against over booking and wins. This looks really bad for a lot of reasons. They will have to settle or it's going to look even worse for them.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I fly UA exclusively and am surprised it got this far. Should've just upped the payment until they got enough volunteers. You can't drag people off a plane.

But as 97 said there are limits on what they're required to do for passengers who are involuntarily bumped.

And no way are these passengers randomly selected. They're not going to pull a elite status flyer off the plane.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Even though Delta still has not 100% ramped back up after the "bad storms" of last week? That was crazy and incompetent, if you ask me.

Well in my experience Delta and United are the two worst airlines. Yet because of Tallahassee's limited options I have no choice but to fly them usually. When I do get to fly someone else like Virgin Australia, Lufthansa or Hawaiian Airlines (because I drive to Tampa or Orlando for long vacation trips to fly out of decent airports) it's like a breath of fresh air.

 

[Finance85]

I fly UA exclusively and am surprised it got this far. Should've just upped the payment until they got enough volunteers. You can't drag people off a plane.

But as 97 said there are limits on what they're required to do for passengers who are involuntarily bumped.

And no way are these passengers randomly selected. They're not going to pull a elite status flyer off the plane.

Right on all counts. They have a formula based on ticket price, frequent flier status, rebooking options, etc.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Right on all counts. They have a formula based on ticket price, frequent flier status, rebooking options, etc.

And there's an FAA reg on bumping too.

 

[BelemNole]

Guy got back on the plane later because even tone deaf united realized they were screwed after seeing the guy get bloodied up due to intentional overbooking and half a dozen people catching it on video.

 

[Finance85]

And there's an FAA reg on bumping too.

Oh yeah. They hate involuntary bumping because they have to pay cash (or check) if that's what the passenger chooses. Double the one way fare for up to four hour delay, then doubles again after that, plus they have to rebook on the next available flight.

 

[Random_John]

In here is a clip of the guy getting knocked around and being let back on the plane. Yeesh UA. Really?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelv...er-the-airline?utm_term=.piA5Pjdg2#.ra51O4WZJ


I love the end of the article which just seems extremely bogus:

When asked why the airline had the man forcibly removed, and whether that was standard procedure in cases of overbooked flights, United refused to comment.
Instead they told BuzzFeed News all further questions should be referred to Chicago Police. BuzzFeed News contacted Chicago Police and were told to contact the Chicago Department of Aviation. When BuzzFeed News contacted the Chicago Department of Aviation they were transferred to a TSA message bank. A TSA spokesperson later told BuzzFeed News they were not involved and to contact Chicago Police.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

One thing I dont like is when UA flight crew get preferred seats. If I owned an airline no employee would have exit row or first class seating. It looks terrible. Give the good seats to the paying passengers first.

 

[Finance85]

One thing I dont like is when UA flight crew get preferred seats. If I owned an airline no employee would have exit row or first class seating. It looks terrible. Give the good seats to the paying passengers first.

Because exit row seats usually cost more (unless the passenger has status), they are the last seats open. There are usually no first class seats open any more because there are so many frequent fliers that get upgraded.

 

[LesClaypool]

Well in my experience Delta and United are the two worst airlines. Yet because of Tallahassee's limited options I have no choice but to fly them usually. When I do get to fly someone else like Virgin Australia, Lufthansa or Hawaiian Airlines (because I drive to Tampa or Orlando for long vacation trips to fly out of decent airports) it's like a breath of fresh air.

Airlines are a commodity. There is no difference, save for (perhaps) a little extra legroom here or there.

 

[FSUTribe76]

In here is a clip of the guy getting knocked around and being let back on the plane. Yeesh UA. Really?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelv...er-the-airline?utm_term=.piA5Pjdg2#.ra51O4WZJ


I love the end of the article which just seems extremely bogus:

When asked why the airline had the man forcibly removed, and whether that was standard procedure in cases of overbooked flights, United refused to comment.
Instead they told BuzzFeed News all further questions should be referred to Chicago Police. BuzzFeed News contacted Chicago Police and were told to contact the Chicago Department of Aviation. When BuzzFeed News contacted the Chicago Department of Aviation they were transferred to a TSA message bank. A TSA spokesperson later told BuzzFeed News they were not involved and to contact Chicago Police.

I enjoyed how the CEO used the term "re-accommodate" to refer to the passengers thrown off by their overbooking implying it was somehow their fault and they were being whiney. "Don't make me have to re-accommodate my fist to your face."

 

[FSUTribe76]

Airlines are a commodity. There is no difference, save for (perhaps) a little extra legroom here or there.

I wish that were true. Then I ride Virgin Australia Airline and see a free snack and drink station built into the general population section and I realize that's not true. That's right, all you care to grab snacks and drinks plus they'll bring you free beer and wine up to a certain point (two per meal). I flew back United from Hawaii on a flight not that substantially shorter than the one to Sydney and not only did they have NO food other than what you paid for except some cookies but they didn't even have a digital entertainment box for the seat, just three movies running on tiny screens four rows above mine.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Because exit row seats usually cost more (unless the passenger has status), they are the last seats open. There are usually no first class seats open any more because there are so many frequent fliers that get upgraded.

Right but they can bump other paying passengers into those preferred seats and give the employees the less desirable ones. At least that would be the policy on my airline. Kinda like making employees park in the far part of the parking lot instead of the spaces closest to the entrance.

 

[mnole03]

They should have upped the cash offer past 4x face value. They also could have rented a Sprinter van and driven their employees to Louisville.

That said, If you're on a plane and the police or air marshall order you to leave, and you refuse, I won't feel bad if you are injured.

 

[DFSNOLE]

If his only reason that he shouldn't lose his seat was that he is a doctor, then I have little sympathy for him unless he can show he had open heart surgeries scheduled the next day. If not, his time is no more valuable than any of the others on the plane.

 

[LesClaypool]

I wish that were true. Then I ride Virgin Australia Airline and see a free snack and drink station built into the general population section and I realize that's not true. That's right, all you care to grab snacks and drinks plus they'll bring you free beer and wine up to a certain point (two per meal). I flew back United from Hawaii on a flight not that substantially shorter than the one to Sydney and not only did they have NO food other than what you paid for except some cookies but they didn't even have a digital entertainment box for the seat, just three movies running on tiny screens r rows above mine.

1. Shorter flights never have as good of accommodations as longer ones. Why would you expect a 5 hour flight from Honolulu to LA (I'm just guessing) to be as accommodating as what I imagine might've been a 15-hour flight to Australia?
2. Flights from anywhere in the USA to anywhere in Europe (w/very few exceptions, mainly on low-cost airlines) have the free snacks and free beer and wine you're describing. Typically, those flights are only 6-10 hours long.
3. Furthermore, you clearly flew back on a crappy plane from Hawaii. What you're describing is the exception, not the rule. To avoid anomalies though, I highly suggest vetting your flight on seatguru.com before booking. You put your flight number and date of flight in and then you can see what amenities are on the plane, which seats are reviewed as good or bad, and most importantly, what the pitch is (ie legroom) in coach. This can be a lifesaver. You DON'T want to be stuck on a 10-hour flight in a seat with a 28-29" pitch, especially when for the same price on a different plane it might be 31-32". That extra 2-4" is HUGE (that's what she said.)
4. Airlines are a commodity. A few extra free bags of peanuts doesn't change that.

 

[FSUTribe76]

1. Shorter flights never have as good of accommodations as longer ones. Why would you expect a 5 hour flight from Honolulu to LA (I'm just guessing) to be as accommodating as what I imagine might've been a 15-hour flight to Australia?
2. Flights from anywhere in the USA to anywhere in Europe (w/very few exceptions, mainly on low-cost airlines) have the free snacks and free beer and wine you're describing. Typically, those flights are only 6-10 hours long.
3. Furthermore, you clearly flew back on a crappy plane from Hawaii. What you're describing is the exception, not the rule. To avoid anomalies though, I highly suggest vetting your flight on seatguru.com before booking. You put your flight number and date of flight in and then you can see what amenities are on the plane, which seats are reviewed as good or bad, and most importantly, what the pitch is (ie legroom) in coach. This can be a lifesaver. You DON'T want to be stuck on a 10-hour flight in a seat with a 28-29" pitch, especially when for the same price on a different plane it might be 31-32". That extra 2-4" is HUGE (that's what she said.)
4. Airlines are a commodity. A few extra free bags of peanuts doesn't change that.

Well United didn't give me %*%* on the flight from Philly to Gatwick. I think they did serve one meal, but not an open snackbar for you to roam around and grab. The plus side is that they DID at least have an entertainment Center in each seat.

And LA to Melbourne isn't that substantially longer than Honolulu to Dallas (or Houston I've forgotten which one). 13.5 hours versus 9 or 10 from memory of both. You're still on the plane basically forever.

 

[Gonolz]

The Doctor really wanted to Fly the Friendly Skies. He missed the subtext of the slogan (But We Reserve the Right to Beat Your Ass While Still on the Ground).

It is ridiculous. In addition to beating the good Dr., they ended up having a huge delay, inconveniencing all the other passengers. If they would offer straight cash and/or up the amount, they would get a volunteer.

 

[seminole97]

So it's ok for the airlines to intentionally overbook the flight so they can make more money

If you want to lobby for a law preventing airlines from overbooking, go ahead. They'll just increase prices to try and compensate for their efforts to launch full planes.
That having been said, it's immaterial whether you think it 'ok', you agreed to possibility when you bought the ticket. You don't buy a right to refuse instructions of the crew.

and then physically harm you removing you from the seat you paid for because they can't find enough people willing to sell their seats back to the airline? Not in my book.

Paying for a ticket doesn't give you a property right to the seat.

He was harmed when he refused to comply. We can have a civil society where people obey the laws, even when they find it personally inconvenient, or you can learn the hard way that man made law is backed by force.

"The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning." Ludwig von Mises

I note that no harm came to the couple that left the flight before him. They understood how man made law works. He insisted on an demonstration. He got it.
Would you prefer anarchy?

 

[FSUTribe76]

If you want to lobby for a law preventing airlines from overbooking, go ahead. They'll just increase prices to try and compensate for their efforts to launch full planes.
That having been said, it's immaterial whether you think it 'ok', you agreed to possibility when you bought the ticket. You don't buy a right to refuse instructions of the crew.



Paying for a ticket doesn't give you a property right to the seat.

He was harmed when he refused to comply. We can have a civil society where people obey the laws, even when they find it personally inconvenient, or you can learn the hard way that man made law is backed by force.

"The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning." Ludwig von Mises

I note that no harm came to the couple that left the flight before him. They understood how man made law works. He insisted on an demonstration. He got it.
Would you prefer anarchy?

I think there's a couple of steps in between not being beaten for maintaining yourself in a seat you rented for the flight and anarchy.

 

[BelemNole]

It's amazing that these days even a video where a guy who paid for a seat is dragged bloody from it by the police for no reason other than the airlines overbooked it to make more money and there are still people defending them.