College Sports and Reckless Greed

[JRDNole86]

Perspective | College sports embraced reckless greed. With the coronavirus crisis, the bill has come due.
By Sally Jenkins

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ed-with-coronavirus-crisis-bill-has-come-due/

 

[Sparkzilla1]

Perspective | College sports embraced reckless greed. With the coronavirus crisis, the bill has come due.
By Sally Jenkins

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ed-with-coronavirus-crisis-bill-has-come-due/

Great read. It is indeed payback time for most institutions......

 

[fsufool]

Perspective | College sports embraced reckless greed. With the coronavirus crisis, the bill has come due.
By Sally Jenkins

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ed-with-coronavirus-crisis-bill-has-come-due/

Found myself agreeing to most of it. But then I read the comments section and they were trash as usual.

 

[UFoundawaytogo4and8]

Good article, but when it comes to institutions of higher learning in this country, CFB isn’t the only element that is being illuminated as a radio active under the light of covid.

 

[fsufool]

Good article, but when it comes to institutions of higher learning in this country, CFB isn’t the only element that is being illuminated as a radio active under the light of covid.

I've been a huge critic of both the out of control spending for football as well as the changing face of academic labor (two tier system where a few make great salaries and most labor at or near minimum wage). But, universities were given a losing hand starting in the 1980s and federal funding slowed down to the states and state funding was decreased to the universities. But, the pendulum has started to swing back for universities, but it looks much different. That is what college football is going to go through going forward. Less spending, pain, and then something that looks different than before.

 

[UFoundawaytogo4and8]

I've been a huge critic of both the out of control spending for football as well as the changing face of academic labor (two tier system where a few make great salaries and most labor at or near minimum wage). But, universities were given a losing hand starting in the 1980s and federal funding slowed down to the states and state funding was decreased to the universities. But, the pendulum has started to swing back for universities, but it looks much different. That is what college football is going to go through going forward. Less spending, pain, and then something that looks different than before.

I’m in sales unrelated to it but my entire life I’ve been a history nut and even long after graduating I’ll still watch the Yale professor lectures on youtube because they are free and I think they are interesting but I can’t help but find it absolutely comical that kids are now getting the equivalent of what I normally watch for free as their higher education for the cost of starter home in debt in all online learning with covid. The entire system is built on gauranteed debt, not supply and demand. When over 70 percent of millennials have college degrees, what is the true value of a piece of paper saying your qualified for a starter job in the work place. Yet these institutions costs are so buried in debt, they have to continue to charge at unparalleled levels in history with more and more kids to keep their doors open. Everyone loves to point the finger at college football as a problem whole ignoring the fact that it’s just a micro version- the baby elephant in the room with the momma elephant standing behind it which is a much bigger problem. Major college football despite being a Frankenstein version of itself still provides more opportunities for young men from challenging backgrounds than any other sport in the country and yes it has areas it could grow a lot in becoming better but it’s funny that all the negative attention through this is focused there and not the bigger issue by these sources

 

[MobileAlNole]

It is reckless to read drivel from the Washington Post since homeboy bought it. Signed previous subscriber...

 

[JRDNole86]

It is wreckless to read drivel from the Washington Post since homeboy bought it. Signed previous subscriber...

Well, it is certainly better than Faux News. However, if one just wants to live in an imaginary, consiracy-driven world...

Indoor waterfalls? That is just ridiculous.

 

[JRDNole86]

Well, it is certainly better than Faux News.

Indoor waterfalls? That is just rediculous.

 

[Sparkzilla1]

It is wreckless to read drivel from the Washington Post since homeboy bought it. Signed previous subscriber...

In this case not as reckless as the institutions author Jenkins wrote about. Very mildly comforting that we are not the only institution with significant voids in the athletic leadership realm......

 

[noletaire]

Major college football despite being a Frankenstein version of itself still provides more opportunities for young men from challenging backgrounds than any other sport in the country and yes it has areas it could grow a lot in becoming better but it’s funny that all the negative attention through this is focused there and not the bigger issue by these sources

^^^^^^This, great post.
The dude on this thread who wants to return to 1976-1980 football landscape constantly rails about the great injustice of spending along with the "do more with less" faction are just as out of touch with the group that wants to build a mini-Taj Mahal as a FOF.

 

[mpls_nole]

How higher education's own choices left it vulnerable to the pandemic crisis
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/educat...-choices-left-it-vulnerable-pandemic-n1235458

 

[FarmerNole]

How higher education's own choices left it vulnerable to the pandemic crisis
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/educat...-choices-left-it-vulnerable-pandemic-n1235458

Yep. This quote pretty much sums it up:
“Teaching is the only profession, with the possible exception of prostitution, that has had no productivity improvement in the 2,400 years since Socrates taught in Athens,” said Richard Vedder, an emeritus professor of economics at Ohio University and a longtime critic of the ways universities are managed.

Mismanaged businesses will always end up out of business. Universities are about to find that out. They’ve been operating in an alternate universe for way too long.

 

[Banditking]

I’m in sales unrelated to it but my entire life I’ve been a history nut and even long after graduating I’ll still watch the Yale professor lectures on youtube because they are free and I think they are interesting but I can’t help but find it absolutely comical that kids are now getting the equivalent of what I normally watch for free as their higher education for the cost of starter home in debt in all online learning with covid. The entire system is built on gauranteed debt, not supply and demand. When over 70 percent of millennials have college degrees, what is the true value of a piece of paper saying your qualified for a starter job in the work place. Yet these institutions costs are so buried in debt, they have to continue to charge at unparalleled levels in history with more and more kids to keep their doors open. Everyone loves to point the finger at college football as a problem whole ignoring the fact that it’s just a micro version- the baby elephant in the room with the momma elephant standing behind it which is a much bigger problem. Major college football despite being a Frankenstein version of itself still provides more opportunities for young men from challenging backgrounds than any other sport in the country and yes it has areas it could grow a lot in becoming better but it’s funny that all the negative attention through this is focused there and not the bigger issue by these sources

About 36 percent have a bachelors. And even fewer from a good school. There’s also little reason to go into debt for a degree. That people do it is a reflection of poor decision making rather than need.

 

[nolaholic]

I’m in sales unrelated to it but my entire life I’ve been a history nut and even long after graduating I’ll still watch the Yale professor lectures on youtube because they are free and I think they are interesting but I can’t help but find it absolutely comical that kids are now getting the equivalent of what I normally watch for free as their higher education for the cost of starter home in debt in all online learning with covid. The entire system is built on gauranteed debt, not supply and demand. When over 70 percent of millennials have college degrees, what is the true value of a piece of paper saying your qualified for a starter job in the work place. Yet these institutions costs are so buried in debt, they have to continue to charge at unparalleled levels in history with more and more kids to keep their doors open. Everyone loves to point the finger at college football as a problem whole ignoring the fact that it’s just a micro version- the baby elephant in the room with the momma elephant standing behind it which is a much bigger problem. Major college football despite being a Frankenstein version of itself still provides more opportunities for young men from challenging backgrounds than any other sport in the country and yes it has areas it could grow a lot in becoming better but it’s funny that all the negative attention through this is focused there and not the bigger issue by these sources

I think the article was garbage. For the reasons you stated towards the end. One of her solutions is to reduce scholarships to 70. Arbitrary on her part like most other suggestions. How does this help the kid by having less opportunity.

Also, it’s not free. The benefits package they receive in football all in is equal to about $100k. Median household income in the U.S. is $72k. For 18-22 year olds, significantly less. She fails to mention the bloated athletic budgets have a lot to do with Title IX as well. Football pays the bills for all of that. Failed to mention booster contributions are still the largest portion of “revenue” for an athletic department, not TV contracts. Is the spending out of control, yes? But there is a lot more to it than greedy athletic directors. If people are willing to donate money so Saban can have 13 analysts so be it. Free market Capitalsim is in the process in terms of supply/demand (better football product demands more money for TV, booster levels, priority seating etc...

It just wreaks of an agenda driven article that was sparse in real facts about a much more complicated problem. And so crazy coming from WaPo because they are never agenda driven.

 

[Wizzle_23]

Yet these institutions costs are so buried in debt,

What do you mean, cause most students get loans from the government, the government pays the institution, and the student struggles to pay back the government. The institution is rolling in money, they have very little skin in the game, concerning their student's prosperity with the degree they earn. It's why the University keeps creating degrees that have very little real life application.

 

[Sparkzilla1]

Yep. This quote pretty much sums it up:
“Teaching is the only profession, with the possible exception of prostitution, that has had no productivity improvement in the 2,400 years since Socrates taught in Athens,” said Richard Vedder, an emeritus professor of economics at Ohio University and a longtime critic of the ways universities are managed.

Mismanaged businesses will always end up out of business. Universities are about to find that out. They’ve been operating in an alternate universe for way too long.

Operating within one’s means is real, even for institutions dependent on big brother and big time FB success.......

 

[fsufool]

I’m in sales unrelated to it but my entire life I’ve been a history nut and even long after graduating I’ll still watch the Yale professor lectures on youtube because they are free and I think they are interesting but I can’t help but find it absolutely comical that kids are now getting the equivalent of what I normally watch for free as their higher education for the cost of starter home in debt in all online learning with covid. The entire system is built on gauranteed debt, not supply and demand. When over 70 percent of millennials have college degrees, what is the true value of a piece of paper saying your qualified for a starter job in the work place. Yet these institutions costs are so buried in debt, they have to continue to charge at unparalleled levels in history with more and more kids to keep their doors open. Everyone loves to point the finger at college football as a problem whole ignoring the fact that it’s just a micro version- the baby elephant in the room with the momma elephant standing behind it which is a much bigger problem. Major college football despite being a Frankenstein version of itself still provides more opportunities for young men from challenging backgrounds than any other sport in the country and yes it has areas it could grow a lot in becoming better but it’s funny that all the negative attention through this is focused there and not the bigger issue by these sources

Yes, you are right. Clearly, there are too many people encouraged into the system that have no business in college. College debt is a huge factor, but it was around when I was an undergraduate in the 1970s when tuition was fairly cheap. I am sending my kid off to college next week (actually driving him 2300 miles to drop him off). The total cost will push $90K-$100K if he makes it through. At universities fully 2/3 fail to graduate in 4 years. And for six years it is only 59%. That is just counting full time entering freshman. The numbers for the part timers are very low even going out 10 years. The percentage of 25-29 year olds with a bachelor degree is 36%. Most alarming is how many majors have stripped the math out of its courses. I can speak to this because I taught for several years statistics for social science majors (this included education majors) at USF. In order to get students to pass this course, I literally stripped the math out of it. Found I was not the only one around the country to have to do this, but this was normative even at places like UCLA and USC. Being able to handle basic quantitative analysis should be a requirement to having a bachelor degree IMO. But yet we graduate a whole bunch of folks that can't. No wonder the media is so easily manipulated and in turn manipulates the public.

 

[fsufool]

What do you mean, cause most students get loans from the government, the government pays the institution, and the student struggles to pay back the government. The institution is rolling in money, they have very little skin in the game, concerning their student's prosperity with the degree they earn. It's why the University keeps creating degrees that have very little real life application.

I almost wrote a lengthly post on this.

 

[MongooseFSU]

Perspective | College sports embraced reckless greed. With the coronavirus crisis, the bill has come due.
By Sally Jenkins

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ed-with-coronavirus-crisis-bill-has-come-due/

Everything in this article is true, no one can deny a single fact stated in the article. The non-player folks that stand to benefit economically from college football being played this year are the folks pushing for it to be played. I love FSU and I love college football but I also know that the whole college football industry is rotten and in need of a overhaul. I applaud the PAC 12 players for using their leverage!

 

[UFoundawaytogo4and8]

What do you mean, cause most students get loans from the government, the government pays the institution, and the student struggles to pay back the government. The institution is rolling in money, they have very little skin in the game, concerning their student's prosperity with the degree they earn. It's why the University keeps creating degrees that have very little real life application.

Perhaps you misread what I posted but what you posted is exactly the point of my post. I agree with you , but the problem is that part isn’t discussed in our culture but one small out growth is and that is college football. Statistically though, colleges are not banking all the dough they are rolling in, they are so mismanaged that despite all the record money they are making in this racket, they can barely run themselves profitably and rely on the system continuing to keep operating. If there is any downswing in enrollment or cost they are going have to shut down hundreds nationally. In many ways the unspoken mastodon in the room, where we complain about the baby elephant which is college football

 

[Bossnole]

I think the article was garbage. For the reasons you stated towards them end. One of her solutions is to reduce scholarships to 70. Arbitrary on her part like most other suggestions. How does this help the kid by having less opportunity. Also, it’s not free. The benefits package they receive in football all in is equal to about $100k. Median household income in the U.S. is $72k. For 18-22 year olds, significantly less. Also, she fails to mention the bloated athletic budgets have a lot to do with Title IX as well. Football pays the bills for all of that. Also, failed to mention booster contributions are still the largest portion of “revenue for an athletic department, not TV contracts. Is the spending out of control, yes? But there is a lot more to it than greedy athletic directors. If people are willing to donate money so Saban can have 13 analysts so be it. Free market Capitalsim is in the process in terms of supply/demand. It just wreaks of an aganda drivejnarticle that was sparse in real facts about a much more complicated problem. And so crazy coming from WaPo because they are never agenda driven.

Many will miss what you are saying altogether my man. The reason is probably because partial context is the context in this broken society called America. All one has to do is make one point the issue and most get tunnel vision or create their own context altogether.

No thinking, no absolutes, and no real direction. It’s one all encompassing reality for some, wrapped up in one slanted point. It’s just too hard nowadays to gather all the facts and present a more complete argument.

 

[Wizzle_23]

I almost wrote a lengthly post on this.

My kid better have a plan, in a degree that makes money if he wants to go to college. I would rather pay $10 grand for him to go travel Europe, then come home and start a trade, than send him to college and accrue useless debt.

 

[Archetype]

The schools have to come together and agree collectively on spending limits. These football operating budgets are so large they are starting to eat away at the rest of the university.

 

[Backinday]

The schools have to come together and agree collectively on spending limits. These football operating budgets are so large they are starting to eat away at the rest of the university.

FOOTBALL IS NOT PAID FOR BY THE STATE

You understand that, people give money and buy the tickets with the money they earn right?

So my question is how does that have a negative impact on the university?

Stop Football and major sports and watch what happens to the schools that do not have it,

The issue is people do not like the fact that others make alot of money coaching etc, but never mention the amount of learning and time invested to get to that point and also the jobs where they worked for less than minimum wage.

Just like so many people that have no idea of the recipe of how something is done making a decision on what is right and and wrong

Not to direct this at you as a post but you just kinda got to turn it off sometimes..

 

[-Black]

Good article. I've been saying for awhile that college football has a spending problem more than a revenue problem. The reason so many athletic departments don't operate in the black(an argument I see parroted without critical thought) is because they make it a point to spend almost every dollar they make.



Beyond the fact that College football Accounting is also more than suspect, it's clear to see where most of the money in college football is going, and why there seems to be a shortage despite revenues skyrocketing.

Covid has only exposed this system for what it is. A system where scholarships and health care doesn't even amount to a fifth of what college programs spend their money on.

 

[-Black]

The schools have to come together and agree collectively on spending limits. These football operating budgets are so large they are starting to eat away at the rest of the university.

Agreed. No reason they can't implement caps.

 

[sunset30a]

My kid better have a plan, in a degree that makes money if he wants to go to college. I would rather pay $10 grand for him to go travel Europe, then come home and start a trade, than send him to college and accrue useless debt.

Yep, my son talked me into out of state tuition because he had a plan. He wanted to attend a school for a specific program and it made sense. He graduated with honors, has a job and I have no regrets. My 16 year old is a different story so far, no discipline, no direction but he wants to have fun. Not sure what’s going to happen there but a plan must be in place. I remind him of an Uncle Rico live in Napoleon Dynamite, “money doesn’t grow on trees in this family Napoleon.”

 

[sunset30a]

FOOTBALL IS NOT PAID FOR BY THE STATE

You understand that, people give money and buy the tickets with the money they earn right?

So my question is how does that have a negative impact on the university?

Stop Football and major sports and watch what happens to the schools that do not have it,

The issue is people do not like the fact that others make alot of money coaching etc, but never mention the amount of learning and time invested to get to that point and also the jobs where they worked for less than minimum wage.

Just like so many people that have no idea of the recipe of how something is done making a decision on what is right and and wrong

Not to direct this at you as a post but you just kinda got to turn it off sometimes..

Outstanding post, if the boosters aren’t giving there’s no pie to divvy up for the players. They need to study, get a meaningful degree, take their stipend and be thankful for what they’ve been given in return for playing the game that they enjoy.

 

[Seminole'13]

Y’all call it greed, but it’s us the consumers that are demanding it.

They’re just providing. Someone’s gotta cash in that money.

 

[nolaholic]

Good article. I've been saying for awhile that college football has a spending problem more than a revenue problem. The reason so many athletic departments don't operate in the black(an argument I see parroted without critical thought) is because they make it a point to spend almost every dollar they make.

View embedded media

Beyond the fact that College football Accounting is also more than suspect, it's clear to see where most of the money in college football is going, and why there seems to be a shortage despite revenues skyrocketing.

View embedded media

Covid has only exposed this system for what it is. A system where scholarships and health care doesn't even amount to a fifth of what college programs spend their money on.

Spending all you make is similar to how government institutions work. I know of several examples of where the department finds creative ways to spend money towards the end of a quarter or fiscal year to ensure they don’t have the budget reduced. My friend’s father ran Warner Robbins Airforxe Base and the last week of each quarter they would send planes up 24 hours out of the day to burn fuel off so they would not have surplus of jet fuel for fear of getting less fuel the next quarter.

academia seems eerily similar based on what you pointed out.

 

[Archetype]

It honestly doesn’t matter what any of us think. Spending is out of control. Exponential growth isn’t sustainable. Universities will have no choice but to scale back.

 

[pbcnole]

While I don't disagree with many of the points brought up in the article, overall it sounded more like a bitch and moan session from someone who doesn't like CFB, or the culture surrounding it, very much. I found the ensuing posts on the TC, more engaging than the "meat" of the article itself.

 

[fsufool]

I think the article was garbage. For the reasons you stated towards the end. One of her solutions is to reduce scholarships to 70. Arbitrary on her part like most other suggestions. How does this help the kid by having less opportunity.

Also, it’s not free. The benefits package they receive in football all in is equal to about $100k. Median household income in the U.S. is $72k. For 18-22 year olds, significantly less. She fails to mention the bloated athletic budgets have a lot to do with Title IX as well. Football pays the bills for all of that. Failed to mention booster contributions are still the largest portion of “revenue” for an athletic department, not TV contracts. Is the spending out of control, yes? But there is a lot more to it than greedy athletic directors. If people are willing to donate money so Saban can have 13 analysts so be it. Free market Capitalsim is in the process in terms of supply/demand (better football product demands more money for TV, booster levels, priority seating etc...

It just wreaks of an agenda driven article that was sparse in real facts about a much more complicated problem. And so crazy coming from WaPo because they are never agenda driven.

Like hot stocks (Tesla?), it depends on the greater fool theory. The theory that you can always find a greater fool to bail you out. At some point even Bama will find it hard to find donaters to give more. And if the federal government decides it needs more money, then they can just cancel the tax writeoff. There is a limit to everything, I think we are at it in college football. Maybe I am totally off base, but judging from people on here it doesn't look like it.

 

[garnett76]

Yes, you are right. Clearly, there are too many people encouraged into the system that have no business in college. College debt is a huge factor, but it was around when I was an undergraduate in the 1970s when tuition was fairly cheap. I am sending my kid off to college next week (actually driving him 2300 miles to drop him off). The total cost will push $90K-$100K if he makes it through. At universities fully 2/3 fail to graduate in 4 years. And for six years it is only 59%. That is just counting full time entering freshman. The numbers for the part timers are very low even going out 10 years. The percentage of 25-29 year olds with a bachelor degree is 36%. Most alarming is how many majors have stripped the math out of its courses. I can speak to this because I taught for several years statistics for social science majors (this included education majors) at USF. In order to get students to pass this course, I literally stripped the math out of it. Found I was not the only one around the country to have to do this, but this was normative even at places like UCLA and USC. Being able to handle basic quantitative analysis should be a requirement to having a bachelor degree IMO. But yet we graduate a whole bunch of folks that can't. No wonder the media is so easily manipulated and in turn manipulates the public.

Just curious having taken a couple of statistics classes myself, if you strip the math out of it what's left? Lol

 

[fsufool]

FOOTBALL IS NOT PAID FOR BY THE STATE

You understand that, people give money and buy the tickets with the money they earn right?

So my question is how does that have a negative impact on the university?

Stop Football and major sports and watch what happens to the schools that do not have it,

.

You overvalue football programs. They are nice and give students and alumni something to make them feel good about their choice of college. Consider it a value added for non elite universities. The Ivy League devalued its football programs. They do all right. And they have people come to their games, even alumni on homecoming weekend. I have been to those games. It's still football. And there are school like MIT, Cal Tech and U. of Chicago that do all right without football teams. They have sports, lower division sports that their students enjoy. There are literally thousands of smaller schools that do all right without football that attract great students without football. Some people even seek them out. My son was the opposite and sought schools with major football/sports. It is what he wanted. But he had other wants to; great engineering program, large school, in or near a large city, skiing nearby, etc.

 

[fsufool]

Just curious having taken a couple of statistics classes myself, if you strip the math out of it what's left? Lol

I know.......just theory, vocabulary, application and general understanding. Turns into punching numbers into a computer program, unfortunately, with only a superficial understanding of how it all works. All probably forgotten within 10 days after the test as most of college is..........(don't kill t he messenger). The opposite is students who strive to really understand the material and learn by doing (the math).

 

[Renegade_State]

It’s not just football. It’s academia in general. Everyone cries for these athletes but they are treated like superstars. These universities are turning the average 18 year old into lifetime debtors so the 70 year old socialist teaching “philosophy of gender” gets a huge salary with tenure.

 

[garnett76]

FOOTBALL IS NOT PAID FOR BY THE STATE

You understand that, people give money and buy the tickets with the money they earn right?

So my question is how does that have a negative impact on the university?

Stop Football and major sports and watch what happens to the schools that do not have it,

The issue is people do not like the fact that others make alot of money coaching etc, but never mention the amount of learning and time invested to get to that point and also the jobs where they worked for less than minimum wage.

Just like so many people that have no idea of the recipe of how something is done making a decision on what is right and and wrong

Not to direct this at you as a post but you just kinda got to turn it off sometimes..

FOOTBALL IS NOT PAID FOR BY THE STATE

You understand that, people give money and buy the tickets with the money they earn right?

So my question is how does that have a negative impact on the university?

Stop Football and major sports and watch what happens to the schools that do not have it,

The issue is people do not like the fact that others make alot of money coaching etc, but never mention the amount of learning and time invested to get to that point and also the jobs where they worked for less than minimum wage.

Just like so many people that have no idea of the recipe of how something is done making a decision on what is right and and wrong

Not to direct this at you as a post but you just kinda got to turn it off sometimes..

Good points and without football all those Olympic sports will go away. I do think some of the spending by football programs has gotten a bit crazy, but an even bigger problem is the spending by the universities themselves. Layer after layer of new bureaucracies that have nothing's to do with teaching students.

 

[fsufool]

It’s not just football. It’s academia in general. Everyone cries for these athletes but they are treated like superstars. These universities are turning the average 18 year old into lifetime debtors so the 70 year old socialist teaching “philosophy of gender” gets a huge salary with tenure.

While you weren't looking the universities starting hiring and advancing professors who bring in research dollars. Admittedly, this is easier for science and engineering profs., but there is money out there for history and sociology profs too. Yes, there are still departments and profs. that are working in and teaching critical theory, deconstructionism, etc. But, they are generally not your highest paid profs. If anything they are a lower caste of profs behind the sciences and engineering. Now there are some liberal arts schools where they are the majority, but these schools tend to teach the children of the elite who will take their place on top of the economic heap as soon as they graduate. For now, we can all look aghast at "micro-aggressions," gender bending rhetoric, etc. and wait for those students to hit the real world the same way I await for those football players with their demands of revenue sharing to hit the real world. By the way, the universities are well on their way to have been taken over by women using whatever means they can muster. As to whether that is a good or bad thing, remains to be seen. Title 9 panels were pushed by these female prof's, not a great sign for our universities. But, what we find in all parts of life, women once they reach power, usually act in the same ways that men do. So female administrators at the university will not be a force for much change. And universities are even more dependent on the federal government research agendas, for which basic science and engineering will always be the largest recipients.

That is why I was delighted that my encouragement for my son and his aptitudes, turned into an attempt at an engineering degree. Hope he makes it through.