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Domestic violence and shootings

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Formerly Rockymtnole

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Feb 9, 2013
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Reading this sad story out of Dallas where a guy shot his ex-wife and a bunch of her friends, the guy in Houston who killed his wife after she filed for divorce, the near-weekly stories about the mom or dad who kills themselves and their kids in the midst of a divorce..

What is it that drives people to this level of rage and extreme jealousy?

Theories?
 
Reading this sad story out of Dallas where a guy shot his ex-wife and a bunch of her friends, the guy in Houston who killed his wife after she filed for divorce, the near-weekly stories about the mom or dad who kills themselves and their kids in the midst of a divorce..

What is it that drives people to this level of rage and extreme jealousy?

Theories?

Douchebags, testosterone and easy access to guns.

Literally 55% of American women are killed by a current or former sex partner. Compared to about 7% of men.
 
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Douchebags first and foremost.

I would think drugs and/or alcohol is a common denominator with most of these deaths as well.
 
I would think drugs and/or alcohol is a common denominator with most of these deaths as well.

You would think so but I can't quickly find anything to support that assumption with recent statistics. I'll keep looking though.

But there are statistics showing that it's not usually out of a jealous cucked husband, only about 12% of the women murdered by their current or former sex partners were killed out of a jealous motive. 15% were killed because they were pregnant. So literally more were killed by douchebags wanting to escape responsibility than scorned men (even if it was only in their heads).

The biggest relationship was to gun ownership. 5 women were murdered by gun owners for every nongun owner. And that isn't directly tied to guns being used in the murder in fact most women murdered by their sex partners are beaten or stabbed to death. But men who purchase guns are far more likely to be violent ahats than men who don't and it's shown by the ridiculous statistical gulf between murderers with and without prior gun ownership.
 
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I saw a documentary on this very subject. It's really all over the map as to reasons. Some were raised in a violent home, violence is just normal. So feel powerless in the courts, they showed a couple examples where the wife and her family filed false molestation charges to prevent visits with the kids. The court just dragged their feet and didn't care, the man snapped. Other cases were from drugs that make both aggressive which leads to violent out comes.
BTW, despite the "only 7%, women are far more violent than reported. When a women kills in self defense that doesn't count in the 7%, and we know that's the first defense when a women is caught after a killing.
 
Big Pharma...Drug/Substance abuse. The irony is that people take meds (prescribed or not prescribed) to "help" and sometimes it does more harm than good.
 
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Big Pharma...Drug/Substance abuse. The irony is that people take meds (prescribed or not prescribed) to "help" and sometimes it does more harm than good.
I'm genuinely not singling your comment out at all but speaking specifically of prescription meds - and even more specifically, anti-depressants - this is becoming an ever-popular narrative that has very little verifiable proof/truth to it to my knowledge. I could be wrong and am glad to hear from people w/genuine knowledge on this topic.

This concerns me though b/c (and I'm purposefully making a big leap here) people w/no training at all seem to be setting themselves up as experts on the matter...much like (here's the leap) w/climate change.

Every moron under the sun seems to think they have a meaningful opinion on climate change...and much like they're not experts on atmospheric science on that topic, people increasingly seem to think they know as much about neuroscience.

My hunch (and I can't prove this either) is that the vast majority - like almost everyone who is on these meds - is on them b/c they need to be, and they see positive effects in their life w/out a concurrent desire to kill anyone.

Call me crazy (shrug).
 
You would think so but I can't quickly find anything to support that assumption with recent statistics. I'll keep looking though.

But there are statistics showing that it's not usually out of a jealous cucked husband, only about 12% of the women murdered by their current or former sex partners were killed out of a jealous motive. 15% were killed because they were pregnant. So literally more were killed by douchebags wanting to escape responsibility than scorned men (even if it was only in their heads).

The biggest relationship was to gun ownership. 5 women were murdered by gun owners for every nongun owner. And that isn't directly tied to guns being used in the murder in fact most women murdered by their sex partners are beaten or stabbed to death. But men who purchase guns are far more likely to be violent ahats than men who don't and it's shown by the ridiculous statistical gulf between murderers with and without prior gun ownership.

You are misunderstanding statistical cause and effect. How many people own guns but never kill anyone? A gun is an efficient tool. Your language in your post reveals your bias towards guns.
 
A buddy of mine on the softball team last night was torn up about the Plano shootings. Not sure which party he was close friends with, but kept saying that the media is being gullible with the side of the story they've been given. Will give him some time to cool down and see if I can get some better insight as to the whole story.
 
You are misunderstanding statistical cause and effect. How many people own guns but never kill anyone? A gun is an efficient tool. Your language in your post reveals your bias towards guns.

Really? I don't understand cause and effect?

How about that only 36% of American men own guns (so there's 2 without for every one with) yet they kill at a rate of 5 to 1. So yeah, gun owners are statistically more likely to kill you than nonowners. And by a LOT.

I also mentioned those gun owners killed women more often with their bare hands and sharp objects than they did their gun. So I think I understand what's happening.
 
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So I think I understand what's happening.
maxresdefault.jpg


It wasn't THAT hard of a show to understand, really. But I won't argue with you!
 
Before this gets locked for turning into a gun debate, which I generally enjoy, I'll inject my own poorly informed opinion...

Folks don't understand coping mechanisms and how to deal with stuff, that coupled with the pervasiveness of domestic violence results in a bunch of nitwits who can't get a grip on their own emotions thinking that killing their wifey/lover is an acceptable/common solution to whatever their problem is.

These people are weak, never taught how to cope with the stresses of life, and as such freak the heck out when something doesn't go their way.

As to the gun argument, I'll say we are a society that's grown disaffected by violence as it's salaciously broadcast all day on the news, movies, etc... what's televised begins to inspire real life, and so when the nitwits in question are put in a challenging position they choose the violent 'solution' rather than acting like an adult and being reasonable.
 
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personality disorders

dehumanization and objectification

hopelessness - in the case of divorce and financial ruin

lack of theory of mind - inability to see something from another's perspective

myopia

ego threat
 
All good thoughts.

I just don't get the "if I can't have you nobody will" mindset. Especially when it involves killing yourself after killing your ex-partner. And especially when it involves harming your kids to get back at your ex-partner. I can't fathom any of that.
 
False. Guns make us safer.

That's not what the studies at Harvard say.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...ay-defensive-gun-home-20150730-story,amp.html

"Why do so many Americans own guns? The main reason, according to surveys, is protection. Advocates argue that guns in the home both deter crime (criminals refrain from even trying to break in because they fear being shot by an armed citizen) and thwart it (an armed citizen can stop a crime in progress, preventing injury or theft).

The scientific evidence, however, provides little support for these arguments. Quite the opposite.

In terms of deterrence, a recent study found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership have higher levels of firearm crime and do not have lower levels of other types of crime.

Another study, in 2003, found that counties with higher levels of household gun ownership have higher rates of household burglary, not lower. Burglars like to steal not only cash and jewelry but also guns. A homeowner with a collection of firearms may not want to advertise that fact.

I analyzed the data for the five-year period from 2007 to 2011, looking at more than 14,000 crimes in which there was some degree of personal contact between the victim and perpetrator — incidents in which a self-protective action by the victim was theoretically possible (for example, assaults and robberies).

More than 42% of the time, the victim took some action — maced the offender, yelled at the offender, struggled, ran away, or called the police. Victims used a gun in less than 1% of the incidents (127/14,145). In other words, actual self-defense gun use, even in our gun-rich country, is rare.

It is sometimes claimed that guns are particularly beneficial to potentially weaker victims, such as women. Yet of the more than 300 sexual assaults reported in the surveys, the number of times women were able to use a gun to protect themselves was zero.

Indeed, a study of 10 previous years of crime survey data found that of more than 1,100 sexual assaults, in only one did the victim use a gun in self-defense.

Almost two-thirds of the people in the U.S. population live in homes without guns, and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of these homes are at greater risk of being robbed, injured or killed by criminals compared with citizens in homes with guns. Instead, the evidence is overwhelming that a gun in the home increases the likelihood not only that a household member will be shot accidentally, but also that someone in the home will die in a suicide or homicide.

In addition, hundreds of thousands of household guns are stolen each year. Gun theft is a main pathway by which guns end up in criminal hands. The public health costs of gun ownership are very high.

That is why physician organizations — who care about your health and often see firsthand the harmful effects of firearms — suggest that you very carefully weigh the actual costs and benefits before bringing a lethal weapon into your home."
 
That's not what the studies at Harvard say.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...ay-defensive-gun-home-20150730-story,amp.html

"Why do so many Americans own guns? The main reason, according to surveys, is protection. Advocates argue that guns in the home both deter crime (criminals refrain from even trying to break in because they fear being shot by an armed citizen) and thwart it (an armed citizen can stop a crime in progress, preventing injury or theft).

The scientific evidence, however, provides little support for these arguments. Quite the opposite.

In terms of deterrence, a recent study found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership have higher levels of firearm crime and do not have lower levels of other types of crime.

Another study, in 2003, found that counties with higher levels of household gun ownership have higher rates of household burglary, not lower. Burglars like to steal not only cash and jewelry but also guns. A homeowner with a collection of firearms may not want to advertise that fact.

I analyzed the data for the five-year period from 2007 to 2011, looking at more than 14,000 crimes in which there was some degree of personal contact between the victim and perpetrator — incidents in which a self-protective action by the victim was theoretically possible (for example, assaults and robberies).

More than 42% of the time, the victim took some action — maced the offender, yelled at the offender, struggled, ran away, or called the police. Victims used a gun in less than 1% of the incidents (127/14,145). In other words, actual self-defense gun use, even in our gun-rich country, is rare.

It is sometimes claimed that guns are particularly beneficial to potentially weaker victims, such as women. Yet of the more than 300 sexual assaults reported in the surveys, the number of times women were able to use a gun to protect themselves was zero.

Indeed, a study of 10 previous years of crime survey data found that of more than 1,100 sexual assaults, in only one did the victim use a gun in self-defense.

Almost two-thirds of the people in the U.S. population live in homes without guns, and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of these homes are at greater risk of being robbed, injured or killed by criminals compared with citizens in homes with guns. Instead, the evidence is overwhelming that a gun in the home increases the likelihood not only that a household member will be shot accidentally, but also that someone in the home will die in a suicide or homicide.

In addition, hundreds of thousands of household guns are stolen each year. Gun theft is a main pathway by which guns end up in criminal hands. The public health costs of gun ownership are very high.

That is why physician organizations — who care about your health and often see firsthand the harmful effects of firearms — suggest that you very carefully weigh the actual costs and benefits before bringing a lethal weapon into your home."
Fake news.
 
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I'm genuinely not singling your comment out at all but speaking specifically of prescription meds - and even more specifically, anti-depressants - this is becoming an ever-popular narrative that has very little verifiable proof/truth to it to my knowledge. I could be wrong and am glad to hear from people w/genuine knowledge on this topic.

My hunch (and I can't prove this either) is that the vast majority - like almost everyone who is on these meds - is on them b/c they need to be, and they see positive effects in their life w/out a concurrent desire to kill anyone.

Call me crazy (shrug).

You might be onto something....
 
...........
"Why do so many Americans own guns? The main reason, according to surveys, is protection. Advocates argue that guns in the home both deter crime (criminals refrain from even trying to break in because they fear being shot by an armed citizen) and thwart it (an armed citizen can stop a crime in progress, preventing injury or theft).

The scientific evidence, however, provides little support for these arguments. Quite the opposite........

Well I have a billboard on the side of my yard that reads "Our neighbor 2 doors to the right doesn't "believe" in firearms and is a gun free zone. This house is protected by Smith & Wesson and a vicious dog. " <with an arrow pointing to his house>

Poor guy has had 3 break-ins in the last 5 years, we've never had one. Weird.
 
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Really? I don't understand cause and effect?

How about that only 36% of American men own guns (so there's 2 without for every one with) yet they kill at a rate of 5 to 1. So yeah, gun owners are statistically more likely to kill you than nonowners. And by a LOT.

I also mentioned those gun owners killed women more often with their bare hands and sharp objects than they did their gun. So I think I understand what's happening.

That's still misusing statistics. How many people get killed by a knife? How many knife owners are there? How many gun owners don't kill people compared to those who do?

I can twist the stats to make any point I want.

Guns are a tool. A very efficient tool. People who want to kill will use whatever the most efficient tool is at their disposal. Merely owning a gun doesn't predispose anyone to killing.
 
That's still misusing statistics. How many people get killed by a knife? How many knife owners are there? How many gun owners don't kill people compared to those who do?

I can twist the stats to make any point I want.

Guns are a tool. A very efficient tool. People who want to kill will use whatever the most efficient tool is at their disposal. Merely owning a gun doesn't predispose anyone to killing.

I'll go out on a limb and say 99.999999999% of Americans own a knife. So not a particularly telling statistic unlike gun ownership where only a third of Americans own them yet do 500% more killing. That's not twisting statistics, those are facts. If you can't see the truth with a capital T behind it then it's your own biases blinding you, not statistics.

There's even a very simple psychological motivation behind it. People who use violence and think it's an effective tool usually do so because they personally fear violence. While those of us who don't use violence seldom think it's an effective tool. So you have all of these fearful individuals loading up on guns and then use violence either with or without the gun to solve their problems.
 
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All good thoughts.

I just don't get the "if I can't have you nobody will" mindset. Especially when it involves killing yourself after killing your ex-partner. And especially when it involves harming your kids to get back at your ex-partner. I can't fathom any of that.

Seriously.
Maybe a few milligrams of psilocybin and a gentle reminder that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively would help.
 
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Just wanted to chime in BTL. I'm opposed to domestic violence also. I generally get along with people. I have two guns and have not killed anyone yet, but I have shredded some paper people!
 
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Just wanted to chime in BTL. I'm opposed to domestic violence also. I generally get along with people. I have two guns and have not killed anyone yet, but I have shredded some paper people!

No one said all gun owners are violent aholes. But if you are a violent ahole you probably own a gun and usually lots of them.
 
I own six guns and I haven't killed anyone, in fact I have never even threaten anyone. Hell, I have never hit my wife...

Having said that, when it comes to deer, ducks, doves, geese, bears, coyotes.....I am a serial killer
 
I may be in the miniority, but I was involved in a shooting years <decades> ago. Decided that the dude who drew down on us shouldn't get a "free pass" if it happened again. Prompted me to get my concealed permit and to buy a concealed handgun. Carried for years and never needed it. Still have it at home but have never had to use it thankfully.



in the minority due to owning based on an actual personal event vs fear of the world.
 
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Reading this sad story out of Dallas where a guy shot his ex-wife and a bunch of her friends, the guy in Houston who killed his wife after she filed for divorce, the near-weekly stories about the mom or dad who kills themselves and their kids in the midst of a divorce..

What is it that drives people to this level of rage and extreme jealousy?

Theories?
That's just good old American gun violence. We're cool with that so long as we get to add composite stocks to our ARs.
 
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