First living person diagnosed with CTE

[GwinnettNole]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nfl-player-confirmed-1st-diagnosis-cte-living-patient/story?id=51181721

This is a positive but the downside could be if they get to a point to find out kids are developing CTE in high school, for example.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nfl-player-confirmed-1st-diagnosis-cte-living-patient/story?id=51181721

This is a positive but the downside could be if they get to a point to find out kids are developing CTE in high school, for example.

Not sure how early diagnosis is a downside, other than football will cease to be a sport.

 

[kc78]

Good.

 

[321Nole]

Got to say I've been way less into football since this has been emerging over the past few years.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Got to say I've been way less into football since this has been emerging over the past few years.

Me too. I still watch it but “differently” than I did just years ago.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Not sure how early diagnosis is a downside, other than football will cease to be a sport.

It will be found to be prevalent in sports other than football.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Not sure how early diagnosis is a downside, other than football will cease to be a sport.

That is what I was referring to as a downside.

 

[GwinnettNole]

It will be found to be prevalent in sports other than football.

Lacrosse, hockey and yes soccer (headers) will have this problem as well.

My kids will be playing b-ball, baseball and individual sports if they want. As technology tells us more it should help people make wiser decisions, not just in sports but life overall.

Football/ rugby will return in 50 years when robots makeup the teams... yes Jetsons episode...

 

[funksouljon]

War on sports, get your pitch forks!

 

[seminoledq]

Sport of Peace

 

[cjnoles9399]

Football/ rugby will return in 50 years when robots makeup the teams... yes Jetsons episode...

Maybe the game becomes choreographed as sports entertainment just like wrestling. substitute practices with rehearsals each week against your opponent with everything scripted.

 

[noleville]

You can't treat it and don't know why or how it forms, but knowing it's there is important for some reason. You know once it forms it doesn't go away, so is it going to be when it show you're done even if you can pass the protocol??

 

[GwinnettNole]

You can't treat it and don't know why or how it forms, but knowing it's there is important for some reason. You know once it forms it doesn't go away, so is it going to be when it show you're done even if you can pass the protocol??

By protocol I’m assuming you are referring to the concussion protocol for entering games after getting injured? If so I think you will find out that the protocal is a joke in the grand scheme of what is going on in ones brain (who has CTE).

 

[FSU_UCLA]

By protocol I’m assuming you are referring to the concussion protocol for entering games after getting injured? If so I think you will find out that the protocal is a joke in the grand scheme of what is going on in ones brain (who has CTE).

Agreed.

 

[noleville]

By protocol I’m assuming you are referring to the concussion protocol for entering games after getting injured? If so I think you will find out that the protocol is a joke in the grand scheme of what is going on in ones brain (who has CTE).

That's my point. Once they pass the test it doesn't mean there's no damage, just that the brain healed enough to act "normal". My point is, does the league tell the player that even though he passed the test he's not allowed to play? If so does that open all kinds of lawsuits the other way?? I'll bet you 1 million that if Aaron Rogers was told he has the start of CTC he'd still play..

 

[Bill From Tampa]

War on sports, get your pitch forks!

It's a health care issue.

 

[funksouljon]

It's a health care issue.

No, ya think?

 

[RangerNole]

Lacrosse, hockey and yes soccer (headers) will have this problem as well.

My kids will be playing b-ball, baseball and individual sports if they want. As technology tells us more it should help people make wiser decisions, not just in sports but life overall.

Football/ rugby will return in 50 years when robots makeup the teams... yes Jetsons episode...

Don't know why you mention Rugby, they have some of the strictest contact rules of any contact sport period. You lead with your head, tackle higher than chest level, etc. and it is a penalty period, no questions asked. Yes Rugby is a high contact sport but it is all about tackling like we learned in Pee Wee football, lead with your head up and tackle with your shoulder.

 

[Banditking]

It is disturbing. There’s a lot we need to understand about it. At what level is it clinically significant? What is the mechanism of progression? What about head hits or sudden stops and starts causes it?

But, I watched my 6 year old play in his basketball league this morning. There won’t be a football one.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Don't know why you mention Rugby, they have some of the strictest contact rules of any contact sport period. You lead with your head, tackle higher than chest level, etc. and it is a penalty period, no questions asked. Yes Rugby is a high contact sport but it is all about tackling like we learned in Pee Wee football, lead with your head up and tackle with your shoulder.

Any thing that jars the brain with the skull will cause Tau proteins to develop which causes CTE. Think about all the tackling and falling to the ground in rugby— I’m assuming the brain sloshes in the head against the skull on a tackle. It more than likely would be a sub concussive type of fall. I’m speculating but could be wrong.

This is why a helmet change, for football, will not have any effect or change in the protein buildups. The physical contact results in the brain slamming against the skull. Dr Omalu has already said a helmet change won’t result in less sub-concussive hits.

 

[NoleinATL]

This is why a helmet change, for football, will not have any effect or change in the protein buildups. The physical contact results in the brain slamming against the skull. Dr Omalu has already said a helmet change won’t result in less sub-concussive hits.

That is surprising. If the brain rattles around the skull at a lower rate, less repeatedly then the effect would seem to be reduced. Is his conclusion ( I have read some of his writings not extensively though) that the injury no matter the degree produces the same amount of proteins?

 

[FSU_UCLA]

The way I think about CTE is to compare the bands of fibers in the brain to the cord you se to charge your phone. Anything that causes that cord to flex slowly breaks it down, and eventually the connection becomes inconsistent and ultimately breaks.

Gwinnett’s post is exactly right. The impacts on the outside of the skull aren’t the issue; the movement of the brain on the inside of the skull absolutely are. The brain itself is very soft and squishy, essentially like a bowl of oatmeal, with no supportive structure or tissue within the lobes to protect those bands of fibers from twisting and shearing.

 

[NoleinATL]

Gwinnett’s post is exactly right. The impacts on the outside of the skull aren’t the issue; the movement of the brain on the inside of the skull absolutely are. The brain itself is very soft and squishy, essentially like a bowl of oatmeal, with no supportive structure or tissue within the lobes to protect those bands of fibers from twisting and shearing.

Not questioning that fact UCLA , I am questioning whether severity of impact is an issue.In your research or reading , is severity of impact a contributing factor to advanced stages of CTE?

 

[Banditking]

Diffuse axonal injury is a mechanism of injury in tbi but this amyloid build up is interesting in terms of how it distributes in cte, say versus Alzheimer’s disease.

 

[Banditking]

Not questioning that fact UCLA , I am questioning whether severity of impact is an issue.In your research or reading , is severity of impact a contributing factor to advanced stages of CTE?

The longitudinal data aren’t really there to answer these sorts of questions definitively yet. The nfl also recently severed their research partnership with federal granting agencies in understanding the effects of concussion.

There are some disturbing articles out there. For example, in high school football players that never suffered a concussion, there was detectable white matter injury via diffusion tensor imaging (the diffuse axonal injury UCLA describe). That’s not the same thing as cte.

I also wonder about recuperative mechanisms and vulnerability. For example, apoe4 (ad genetic risk factor) has been suggested to have a role in brain recovery from injury, like from stroke. Wonder if some people are more or less likely to manifest clinical symptoms of injury than others and whether there may be a longitudinal trajectory heterogeneity. I bet there is.

Anyway, yeah, I think better helmets won’t help too much. There is some interesting pharmacological methods people have been working on to mitigate effects. But, when it comes down to it, I personally just don’t think the game is worth it.

 

[NoleinATL]

[QUOTE="Banditking, post:
Anyway, yeah, I think better helmets won’t help too much. There is some interesting pharmacological methods people have been working on to mitigate effects. But, when it comes down to it, I personally just don’t think the game is worth it.[/QUOTE]

Improved helmets will not help because severity of injury does not matter or causation as it relates to CTE is still unknown ?

The game is not worth what?

 

[RangerNole]

Any thing that jars the brain with the skull will cause Tau proteins to develop which causes CTE. Think about all the tackling and falling to the ground in rugby— I’m assuming the brain sloshes in the head against the skull on a tackle. It more than likely would be a sub concussive type of fall. I’m speculating but could be wrong.

This is why a helmet change, for football, will not have any effect or change in the protein buildups. The physical contact results in the brain slamming against the skull. Dr Omalu has already said a helmet change won’t result in less sub-concussive hits.

You use the word assume a lot in that post; not trying to be a d***; but if you are assuming and have no facts why would you make a claim. If we are worried about the brain sloshing and assuming this is a bad thing period; then any activity where you jump, ski, skateboard, throw weights around etc. will make the brain slosh and we should all just stretch and do yoga; not that there is anything wrong with that. Sounds to me like you want to ban anything where contact happens.

 

[billanole]

You use the word assume a lot in that post; not trying to be a d***; but if you are assuming and have no facts why would you make a claim. If we are worried about the brain sloshing and assuming this is a bad thing period; then any activity where you jump, ski, skateboard, throw weights around etc. will make the brain slosh and we should all just stretch and do yoga; not that there is anything wrong with that. Sounds to me like you want to ban anything where contact happens.

Or maybe he just wants people to know the risk they are taking. Freedom of choice, but perhaps informed choice.

 

[FSU_UCLA]

The distinction that bandit makes between the different types of brain damage is really important. Concussions are definitely a major issue, but the shearing and tearing and general wear and tear injuries are probably just as dangerous, if not moreso, in the development of neurological issues like CTE.

As somebody who played football on the line until high school and then boxed until graduate school, I am really irritated and frankly scared by the damage that I did to my brain, esp. given the history of dementia in my family. I truly wish that I had not been allowed to play football as a kid.

I am not advocating for the banning of the sport, but I would never support anybody about whom I cared playing it.

 

[NoleinATL]

As somebody who played football on the line until high school and then boxed until graduate school, I am really irritated and frankly scared by the damage that I did to my brain,.

What damage did you do to your brain?

Do you think you would have done less damage if you had worn shorts while boxing because of better movement ?

 

[FSU_UCLA]

What damage did you do to your brain?

Do you think you would have done less damage if you had worn shorts while boxing because of better movement ?

I battered my brain through thousands of hours of football and boxing, and I hate that I did that.

I don’t understand your question about wearing shorts while boxing.

 

[NoleinATL]

I battered my brain through thousands of hours of football and boxing, and I hate that I did that.

I don’t understand your question about wearing shorts while boxing.

You said you did damage , how did you damage your brain?
I know it is impossible to quantify the perceived damage, but do you feel the damage now in your life?



You have stated multiple times you do not wear short pants , so I was wondering how you stick and move in long pants?

Was attempting a joke, I apologize for it falling short

 

[Banditking]

[QUOTE="Banditking, post:
Anyway, yeah, I think better helmets won’t help too much. There is some interesting pharmacological methods people have been working on to mitigate effects. But, when it comes down to it, I personally just don’t think the game is worth it.

Improved helmets will not help because severity of injury does not matter or causation as it relates to CTE is still unknown ?

The game is not worth what?[/QUOTE]

Because even when there’s no apparent injury acutely (no concussion) people are still showing brain effects of repetitive hits, even at high school level play.

If the issue is acceleration/deceleration abruptness, as an example, what good would a cushy helmet do?

There are clearly down line effects. They may or may not become noticeable to an individual or distinguishable from normal aging or even psychiatric issues. Plenty of well adjusted ex boxers and football players out there.

For instance, in the military, what does diffuse axonal injury do to ptsd vulnerability or depression? In the “first living person identified” with cte the suspected clinical phenomenology was emotion/mood disorder.

Amyloid deposition w cte is kinda all over the place whereas in ad it tends to collect in specific areas. But there’s no clear relationship to where amyloid is located and clinical presentation. Drugs that actually do get rid of amyloid don’t stop ad progression nor do they offer detectable clinical improvement. That’s a lot of unknowns to deal with.

I could not justify exposing my child to this. Thus, my point is the game is not worth it because brains are important. Because, children aren’t informed decision makers in taking on the risk to play. Because young adults don’t necessarily understand or accurately count/value distant effects.

 

[RangerNole]

Or maybe he just wants people to know the risk they are taking. Freedom of choice, but perhaps informed choice.

I understand that and agree. I guess I come at this from a common sense standpoint. How could you not know that doing certain things are not bad for you. I don't need someone to tell me that drinking a bottle of vodka a day is bad for me and then decide that I should sue the alcohol company. The other thing that bothers me is players have never been taught to tackle with there head; it just started happening and the media and players loved the big hit. Players decided that the helmet was a weapon and started tackling by using it. I played HS football in the 80s and can still remember the first and only time I lowered my head to hit someone; the coach went crazy on me; you will break your neck, you can't see etc. Interestingly Mark Buniconnti was on my HS team as well.
I will say I do agree that the concussion protocols are a joke. My son had to go do his initial test in HS and I went with; maybe I was naïve but I expected some test where they hooked up probes etc.; when I saw the test I was like really that is it? My son played on the O & D line and honestly I was much more concerned with him blowing out a knee than getting a concussion.

 

[Banditking]

I understand that and agree. I guess I come at this from a common sense standpoint. How could you not
know that doing certain things are not bad for you. I don't need someone to tell me that drinking a bottle of vodka a day is bad for me and then decide that I should sue the alcohol company. The other thing that bothers me is players have never been taught to tackle with there head; it just started happening and the media and players loved the big hit. Players decided that the helmet was a weapon and started tackling by using it. I played HS football in the 80s and can still remember the first and only time I lowered my head to hit someone; the coach went crazy on me; you will break your neck, you can't see etc. Interestingly Mark Buniconnti was on my HS team as well.
I will say I do agree that the concussion protocols are a joke. My son had to go do his initial test in HS and I went with; maybe I was naïve but I expected some test where they hooked up probes etc.; when I saw the test I was like really that is it? My son played on the O & D line and honestly I was much more concerned with him blowing out a knee than getting a concussion.

Children can’t really make an informed choice. And parents shouldn’t be allowed to choose brain damage for their children in my opinion.

As far as greater concern for a knee injury, sure, that’s an obvious and loud physical impairment. Having trouble controlling rage, well that’s just a personality problem and people don’t detect that as the symptom of an injury.

 

[GwinnettNole]

You use the word assume a lot in that post; not trying to be a d***; but if you are assuming and have no facts why would you make a claim. If we are worried about the brain sloshing and assuming this is a bad thing period; then any activity where you jump, ski, skateboard, throw weights around etc. will make the brain slosh and we should all just stretch and do yoga; not that there is anything wrong with that. Sounds to me like you want to ban anything where contact happens.

Rugby hasn’t been studied yet, so it would be presumptuous to say the sport causes CTE. But connecting the dots say it isn’t a wild guess...

The force of a hit in rugby or football is much greater and more consistent than in stretching, yoga or basketball. So the argument that everything is banned is not accurate.

 

[RangerNole]

Rugby hasn’t been studied yet, so it would be presumptuous to say the sport causes CTE. But connecting the dots say it isn’t a wild guess...

The force of a hit in rugby or football is much greater and more consistent than in stretching, yoga or basketball. So the argument that everything is banned is not accurate.

Fair enough, but logic would also tell you that many sports some greater than others can cause brain damage etc. Pole vaulting, gymnastics, hockey, soccer, judo, mountain biking, weight lifting, wrestling, skiing, snowboarding, ski jumping, and on and on.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Fair enough, but logic would also tell you that many sports some greater than others can cause brain damage etc. Pole vaulting, gymnastics, hockey, soccer, judo, mountain biking, weight lifting, wrestling, skiing, snowboarding, ski jumping, and on and on.

Isn't there a distinction, though, between injury that results from accidents vs injuries that occur as a result of playing the sport as intended?

People get seriously injured all the time in downhill skiing, but those are accidents. It's not a planned part of the sport to run into a tree or take a wipeout at 60mph on an icy track.

Compare with boxing and football, and even soccer when it comes to heading. Those seem like the place to start when researching the issue.

 

[RangerNole]

Isn't there a distinction, though, between injury that results from accidents vs injuries that occur as a result of playing the sport as intended?

People get seriously injured all the time in downhill skiing, but those are accidents. It's not a planned part of the sport to run into a tree or take a wipeout at 60mph on an icy track.

Compare with boxing and football, and even soccer when it comes to heading. Those seem like the place to start when researching the issue.

True but take mountain biking if you have ever done difficult courses your body is getting jolted and bouncing constantly. While your head may not take some direct hit; your head is constantly jostling around. Heck I have 100's of parachute jumps going from 0 to 120 to 0 is a pretty big collision even though no one actually hit me; not to mention the hard landings. Should we ban parachute jumping.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Isn't there a distinction, though, between injury that results from accidents vs injuries that occur as a result of playing the sport as intended?

People get seriously injured all the time in downhill skiing, but those are accidents. It's not a planned part of the sport to run into a tree or take a wipeout at 60mph on an icy track.

Compare with boxing and football, and even soccer when it comes to heading. Those seem like the place to start when researching the issue.

Spot on