After an infield single and a RBI, in Beantown. And Beantown showed class. My hat's off to both of them!!!!
Greatness just stepped down......
- Thread starter puffdaddy911
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Classy player? Yes.
Most overrated player in baseball over the last 20 years?? Also, YES!!
Played his entire career surrounded by an All Star team...was never even the best player on his team....if he played his career in Houston, he wouldn't be receiving nearly the love he is...
Most overrated player in baseball over the last 20 years?? Also, YES!!
Played his entire career surrounded by an All Star team...was never even the best player on his team....if he played his career in Houston, he wouldn't be receiving nearly the love he is...
Well said fsugrad98.He was never the best ss in baseball .For some years wasn't even the best SS on his team.Class act who had a great long career.
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Interesting critique. If I apply it, does that negate Babe Ruth because he played with Lou Gerig and Joe DiMagio? How 'bout Mickey Mantle who played with HOFers Whitey Ford, Yogi Berra and Roger Maris? Sandy Kofax because he played with Don Drysdale? Most yankee greats played with other yankee greats. Most St Louis greats played with other Cardinal greats. Same with the Reds.
Jeter provided the leadership among much great talent with a manic for an owner. He did it with enormous class that is too rare today.
Yet he managed to end up at 6 on the all time hits list. Yeah go ahead and keep thinking that way. You must be a Rays or Bosox fan...
To even doubt what a great player and teammate he was is just plain ignorant.
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Not a Yankees fan by any stretch, but hats off to Jeter for playing with integrity. Much respect.
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If I use your logic, Jameis is the most overrated QB of all time. He also was surrounded by a team of All-Stars last year.
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Classy player, great career on the field and off. Probably dated or hooked up with the more hotties...prolific bachelor.
Take away PED inflated power stats from much of his peers during his career and Jeter would be recognized along with Boggs, Gwynn, etc as one of the greatest players of his generation. People want to look at his shortstop play and stats over the past few seasons and decide he was over rated his entire career. He had some tremendous seasons and was the ultimate clutch player. Not to mention his leadership.
Was he a good player? No question...he also benefitted from playing on loaded rosters. He wouldn't have anywhere near the hits that he ended up with if he wasn't surrounded by other all stars. If he had been taken by the Astros with the #1 pick, rather than the Yankees, he'd have 1,000 less hits and only a couple playoff wins. He got more pitches to hit because they'd rather take their chances with him singling to right center than grooving a fastball to others who could really hurt them. Jeter never carried a team...he was a good complementary piece to the puzzle his entire career. He's been a liability in the field for years.
Good player? Yes.. Great leader? Yes.
One of the all-time greats? No way.
Good player? Yes.. Great leader? Yes.
One of the all-time greats? No way.
Jeter almost always delivered in the clutch. And anyone that plays or coached baseball knows that the two most challenging in positions on the field are shortstop & catcher.
And the guy who sarcastically said the Yankees teams over the last few years have been loaded makes my point....take away all the other stars he's played with and Jeter took them nowhere...
Jeter benefitted from a talent and financial inequality that exists in MLB for years....large market teams like the Yankees SHOULD win and at least make the playoffs annually....
Jeter benefitted from a talent and financial inequality that exists in MLB for years....large market teams like the Yankees SHOULD win and at least make the playoffs annually....
I started this thread and now there is criticism of him.....
Here is the deal. No one was more of a leader. He didn't take plays off. His hits, his plays his stardom came when the game was on the line. He wasn't juiced, he didn't make excuses, he was professional.
He had 200 hits multiple times, including 218 during 158 post season games. That is a remarkable number of hits during the biggest games on one of the biggest stages. 158 games is 4 games short of a regular season. Look today, the last day of the regular season and tell me how many players in the majors got over 200 hits.
He hit win it mattered, The dive, the flip, the Mr. November moniker happened with only a few teams still playing.
He didn't win because of the Yankees. The Yankees won because of him.....he had great teammates, but he and MO. they were the real deal.
They were winners.
Here is the deal. No one was more of a leader. He didn't take plays off. His hits, his plays his stardom came when the game was on the line. He wasn't juiced, he didn't make excuses, he was professional.
He had 200 hits multiple times, including 218 during 158 post season games. That is a remarkable number of hits during the biggest games on one of the biggest stages. 158 games is 4 games short of a regular season. Look today, the last day of the regular season and tell me how many players in the majors got over 200 hits.
He hit win it mattered, The dive, the flip, the Mr. November moniker happened with only a few teams still playing.
He didn't win because of the Yankees. The Yankees won because of him.....he had great teammates, but he and MO. they were the real deal.
They were winners.
Alot of good points. I really like Jeter but it matters that he played in NYC.
Paul Molitor had almost identical stats but played in Milwaukee, Minnesota and Toronto and he got 10% of the acclaim of Jeter.
Paul Molitor had almost identical stats but played in Milwaukee, Minnesota and Toronto and he got 10% of the acclaim of Jeter.
LOL. U actually made me laugh. Career .310 hitter. over 20 years. Unbelieveble. let me guess, u are probably a braves fan. And if he had done this at Houston, and finished 6th in hits in MLB history, yes he would have gotten this same treatment. Leader of sports biggest franchise, and did this while playing in the toughest city in the world to play in. NYC. Many have crumbled there, jeter succeeded, and for 20 years.
Not a Yanks, but for anyone questioning Jeter.....well that right there is a definition of being a hater. Who cares who he played, he still produced with consistency.had he not he would have been on multiple teams and ending his career a few years ago.
If he had been in Houston he WOULDN'T have put up those numbers, that's my point.
The Molitor comparison is a good one...did nearly as much, without the benefit of being on the most talented rosters, largest payrolls by a mile and having the love fest from the largest media market in the country.
Oh, and I'm not a Braves fan, just a realist without the Pinstripe Glasses on......
The Molitor comparison is a good one...did nearly as much, without the benefit of being on the most talented rosters, largest payrolls by a mile and having the love fest from the largest media market in the country.
Oh, and I'm not a Braves fan, just a realist without the Pinstripe Glasses on......
If the Queen had balls, she would be the King.
Derek Jeter played SS in the fishbowl of New York, on the greatest team in the history of sports and carried himself like a champion, both on the field and off.
Say what you like, he is one of the best players to ever play the game.
Derek Jeter played SS in the fishbowl of New York, on the greatest team in the history of sports and carried himself like a champion, both on the field and off.
Say what you like, he is one of the best players to ever play the game.
anyone that stays with the same team for 20 years or whatever it was gets respect...of course no one would have given him the money the yanks did over the last 7-8 years of his career. He was a good hitter, an average (at best) shortstop, a guy that was more than likely clean for his career and a prolific cocksman off the field. I'm glad the year long circle-jerk is over.
Do we have any all-time greats left to leave the game next year? We had quite the run with chipper, rivera and jeter in consecutive years. Ortiz might get similar treatment despite his obvious PED use. Pujols plays out west, so espn doesn't care about him (he also still has quite a few years left on his absurd contract). I can't really think of many other guys that would even be candidates.
Do we have any all-time greats left to leave the game next year? We had quite the run with chipper, rivera and jeter in consecutive years. Ortiz might get similar treatment despite his obvious PED use. Pujols plays out west, so espn doesn't care about him (he also still has quite a few years left on his absurd contract). I can't really think of many other guys that would even be candidates.
I'm no Yankee fan, but the Captain has always conducted himself with nothing but class on and off the field. The tributes of the last week culminating in the Boston sports greats bidding their farewells yesterday were nothing short of awe-inspiring. It was really good seeing something so positive with all the ugly sports news over the past few months.
I agree with all of the comments above, is Jeter a top 10 player at his position? Maybe, maybe not. His stats, across the board stayed the same for almost all categories and situations (I believe his playoff numbers were better). Was he surrounded by pretty decent players? So was Kevin McHale and Robert Parrish. Was he helped by longevity? So was Jim Rice (probably hindered him where he only played about 16 years but still hit 400+ HR's) and Yaz (helped his stats that he played 22+ years) . A hot topic up here in New England, who was a better player, Yaz or David Ortiz and who would you pick first when starting a team, Yaz or Papi.
Now comes the overrated part, was he? Let's just say he was, but every way that I look at it, he was a Hall of Famer, pure and simple. In terms of HOF entrance, class has nothing to do with it, IMO, but Jim Rice might not have waited 15 years if he had a tad bit more class off of the field.
I don't buy that he did it in NY, if his numbers were the same in Houston, he is still a 100% HOF'er, because if you want to argue that he did it in NY, then I can throw at you he had better teams and saw a TON (literally, thousands of better pitches to hit because of the bats around him). If he did it in Houston, was he a better player? I would say no, except that his hits would be down and his BB's would be up. HOW MANY GAMES DID HE PLAY IN WHEN HIS TEAM WAS OUT OF PLAYOFF CONTENTION? 5! Really, just 5 games out of 2,916 regular season games, and only once in his 18 year career, did he play a regular season game, at Yankee Stadium, where the Yankees were eliminated from playoff contention. There is only 1 player in sports history that I think can remotely compare to that, and that would be Bill Russell (I am too lazy to look up how many games in which Russell played where he played while his team was prepping for golf). Other than Wilt Chamberlain never fouling out of a game, have I seen a stat that f*cking lopsided where I doubt it ever gets close the being matched!
Growing up a Red Sox/Cardinals fan, I got goosebumps when he walked off against Baltimore. Did he deserve that? IMO, no one deserves that, he just went and approached the AB as he did every other AB in his career. Fear knocked on the door, faith answered, there was no one there!
Some stats that thrived under pressure, his playoff average was better than regular season. His 3,000th hit was a HR (only Wade Boggs matched this feat, and neither was a HR hitter), how many AB's did it take to collect hit # 3,000 after collecting #2,999? ONE! Jeter entered the game with 2,998 hits, collects a hit in his first AB, homers for hit # 3,000 in his next AB and proceeds to go 5 for 5 for the evening, while the Yanks win the game, 5-4. He would have pulled a Ted Williams and not a Justin Morneau and sat out a game so that his average did not drop. Williams was over .400 for the year and went 6-8 in a double header on the last day of the season, while Morneau sat out yesterday knowing that Harrison finished the say 0-4 and Morneau could have lost the batting title by going 0 for 6, or so (Pitt's season was already done when Colorado's game started).
I don't understand all the hoopla on Jeter if he was overrated, was always surrounded by great teams and players...... The only question that I have, is, was he a Hall of Famer? As Hunter Pence said yesterday.... YES, YES, YES!!!
Again, being a Sox fan, here's my message to Jetah, good f*cking riddance and you should have slapped that tag on Dave Roberts just a little quicker!
Congrats on your 5 titles and a first ballot Hall of Fame career!
Now comes the overrated part, was he? Let's just say he was, but every way that I look at it, he was a Hall of Famer, pure and simple. In terms of HOF entrance, class has nothing to do with it, IMO, but Jim Rice might not have waited 15 years if he had a tad bit more class off of the field.
I don't buy that he did it in NY, if his numbers were the same in Houston, he is still a 100% HOF'er, because if you want to argue that he did it in NY, then I can throw at you he had better teams and saw a TON (literally, thousands of better pitches to hit because of the bats around him). If he did it in Houston, was he a better player? I would say no, except that his hits would be down and his BB's would be up. HOW MANY GAMES DID HE PLAY IN WHEN HIS TEAM WAS OUT OF PLAYOFF CONTENTION? 5! Really, just 5 games out of 2,916 regular season games, and only once in his 18 year career, did he play a regular season game, at Yankee Stadium, where the Yankees were eliminated from playoff contention. There is only 1 player in sports history that I think can remotely compare to that, and that would be Bill Russell (I am too lazy to look up how many games in which Russell played where he played while his team was prepping for golf). Other than Wilt Chamberlain never fouling out of a game, have I seen a stat that f*cking lopsided where I doubt it ever gets close the being matched!
Growing up a Red Sox/Cardinals fan, I got goosebumps when he walked off against Baltimore. Did he deserve that? IMO, no one deserves that, he just went and approached the AB as he did every other AB in his career. Fear knocked on the door, faith answered, there was no one there!
Some stats that thrived under pressure, his playoff average was better than regular season. His 3,000th hit was a HR (only Wade Boggs matched this feat, and neither was a HR hitter), how many AB's did it take to collect hit # 3,000 after collecting #2,999? ONE! Jeter entered the game with 2,998 hits, collects a hit in his first AB, homers for hit # 3,000 in his next AB and proceeds to go 5 for 5 for the evening, while the Yanks win the game, 5-4. He would have pulled a Ted Williams and not a Justin Morneau and sat out a game so that his average did not drop. Williams was over .400 for the year and went 6-8 in a double header on the last day of the season, while Morneau sat out yesterday knowing that Harrison finished the say 0-4 and Morneau could have lost the batting title by going 0 for 6, or so (Pitt's season was already done when Colorado's game started).
I don't understand all the hoopla on Jeter if he was overrated, was always surrounded by great teams and players...... The only question that I have, is, was he a Hall of Famer? As Hunter Pence said yesterday.... YES, YES, YES!!!
Again, being a Sox fan, here's my message to Jetah, good f*cking riddance and you should have slapped that tag on Dave Roberts just a little quicker!
Yes!
I know there are people way more knowledgeable than me on stats and many of them don't believe in "clutch" play in baseball.
I also know for a fact that Jeter is one guy you absolutely would not want to face with 2 outs, bottom 9, tying run on second. He's one of the best performers of the generation. Hit .320 in the World Series. 5 titles. Incredible instincts.
Though I'm a die hard Sox fan I never got riled up about him - it's like trying to root against Roger Federer.
I know there are people way more knowledgeable than me on stats and many of them don't believe in "clutch" play in baseball.
I also know for a fact that Jeter is one guy you absolutely would not want to face with 2 outs, bottom 9, tying run on second. He's one of the best performers of the generation. Hit .320 in the World Series. 5 titles. Incredible instincts.
Though I'm a die hard Sox fan I never got riled up about him - it's like trying to root against Roger Federer.
It was a pleasure watching him play. I think his dedication to excellence and class on and off the field are his greatest attributes.
It was nice to see the respect he got in Fenway (though I have to say I expected nothing less). As a Yankee fan its easy to dislike the Sox and there fans (mainly because they have been better than the Yanks the last few years).
Kudos to the Sox fans in this thread for being honest on Jeter and giving him his due.
Now I am looking forward to the NHL!!!
Stay thirsty my friends!!!
It was nice to see the respect he got in Fenway (though I have to say I expected nothing less). As a Yankee fan its easy to dislike the Sox and there fans (mainly because they have been better than the Yanks the last few years).
Kudos to the Sox fans in this thread for being honest on Jeter and giving him his due.
Now I am looking forward to the NHL!!!
Stay thirsty my friends!!!
The haters talk about how he benefited from being on the Yankees all those years......uh, would he have been on the Yankees all those years if he wasnt great? Its not like they have a reputation for loyalty. They buy the best, but for 20 years they didn't buy another SS. They bought Arod...and put him at third.
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When people say that, they forget that Jeter was called up in '95, the first season the Yankees made the playoffs since '81. He was a part of the group that helped bring the Yankees back to prominence. Not by himself, albeit.
