Groundbreaking article from New York Times on the overly sensitive PCR Tests

[Scalphunter]

I really can't believe that no one has posted this article from over the weekend already. A plethora of highly qualified people have already discussed how the current PCR test for COVID-19 is overly sensitive and is picking up minute viral fragments in people who are not contagious at all. This article highlights this and from such an unsuspecting source as the New York Times. I linked the free version of this article that was re-posted in the Times Of India Newspaper.

In three sets of testing data that include cycle thresholds, compiled by officials in Massachusetts, New York and Nevada, up to 90% of people testing positive carried barely any virus, a review by The New York Times found.

On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aybe-it-shouldnt-be-/articleshow/77830805.cms

 

[Dr. Nole]

interesting

 

[F4Gary]

Ready, shoot, aim...

 

[QuaZ2002]

I don’t doubt that but what are they suggesting then? Should the tests not just say “positive or negative” but also a percentage of some kind to indicate how infectious you are? Considering the range of symptoms people experience it certainly stands to reason there are “minor” exposures.

 

[mjpwooo]

Only issue is that it's from the new York times. This paper sucks.

 

[nynole1]

Only issue is that it's from the new York times. This paper sucks.

Between this and their account of the 17 year old shooter in Kenosha, I've been surprised this week. HONESTY!

 

[Scalphunter]

I don’t doubt that but what are they suggesting then? Should the tests not just say “positive or negative” but also a percentage of some kind to indicate how infectious you are? Considering the range of symptoms people experience it certainly stands to reason there are “minor” exposures.

If you read the article, what is being suggested is that the number of cycles run at the lab be standardized to detect only an infectious viral load. Right now there is ZERO standards at any of these labs. In layman's terms the more cycles you run is like increasing the magnification of a microscope you will always find something if you continue to increase magnification.

 

[mjpwooo]

Between this and their account of the 17 year old shooter in Kenosha, I've been surprised this week. HONESTY!

If they can't get the story about a college QB right, they can't get anything right.....

 

[bookernole]

So to summarize, 6 months in and the United States of America still doesn’t have an accurate test to gauge this virus?

.

 

[nips 9]

So to summarize, 6 months in and the United States of America still doesn’t have an accurate test to gauge this virus?

.

Or it is profitable to keep the numbers as high as possible in their field.

 

[QuaZ2002]

So to summarize, 6 months in and the United States of America still doesn’t have an accurate test to gauge this virus?

.

It doesn’t sound like an accuracy issue so much as an issue of what the standard should be. At this point just get rapid test options readily available and everyone chill for another 3 months and a vaccine or two will likely be released.

 

[GbrNole]

It doesn’t sound like an accuracy issue so much as an issue of what the standard should be. At this point just get rapid test options readily available and everyone chill for another 3 months and a vaccine or two will likely be released.

another three months and we will be approaching the point in time historically where virtually every similar prior viral pandemic has begun to peter out with no vaccine. no doubt though they will ride the coattails of 20-21 influenza deaths and declare them to be COVID since influenza, pneumonia, and COVID are all nestled together in the tracking system so we will likely be dealing with this until March / April 2021.

 

[Scalphunter]

I love how everyone (media) just ignore Sweden, and now the Sunbelt States which includes Florida and the already established scientific phenomenon known as herd immunity.

 

[QuaZ2002]

I love how everyone (media) just ignore Sweden, and now the Sunbelt States which includes Florida and the already established scientific phenomenon known as herd immunity.

You really think FL has herd immunity?

 

[MIKE_G]

I love how everyone (media) just ignore Sweden, and now the Sunbelt States which includes Florida and the already established scientific phenomenon known as herd immunity.

I'm so confused.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200813/swedens-no-lockdown-policy-didnt-achieve-herd-immunity

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-outbreaks-u-s-cases-ticking-up-virus-update

I tend to lean to the side that Sweden did a better job of handling COVID than most countries, but there doesn't seem to be any consensus.

 

[nips 9]

You really think FL has herd immunity?

We can compare NY cases vs deaths and Florida and it would definitely tell some story, no?

 

[GbrNole]

I'm so confused.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200813/swedens-no-lockdown-policy-didnt-achieve-herd-immunity

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-outbreaks-u-s-cases-ticking-up-virus-update

I tend to lean to the side that Sweden did a better job of handling COVID than most countries, but there doesn't seem to be any consensus.

if there is a gold standard for the handling of COVID i think that is owned by Taiwan.

 

[nips 9]

here are the facts, simple if you think you are at risk or may have symptoms of Covid get a test done , if it comes up positive see a doctor and a retest will take place. Then let the doctor take you through the prescribed treatments that are out there. I had it and my wife had Covid in the same month.

Anti Biotics and other treatments are available as well as monitoring, rest and sleep and do not stop eating even though you are not hungry and like other fevers drink a lot, we started to see improvement in the about 8 days and it was making us feel weak for about 2 weeks.

Some are not going to like the treatments but we agreed to Remdesivir and believe it had a positive result for us...

Lots of people talking a good game but until this stuff knocks you on your ass, then its just talking!

Ignoring signals and signs causes real problems... I have been told that 99% of the people that take steps never see a hospital room

I am thankful for the Shands Hospital in Gainesville Florida

We saw three doctors that are infectious disease specialist and all and I mean all had a little different twists!

Glad you guys made it through mostly unscathed.

 

[QuaZ2002]

We can compare NY cases vs deaths and Florida and it would definitely tell some story, no?

Not sure how that relates to herd immunity. We’d have to have close to 15M cases in FL to have herd immunity. There’s no way we’re even close to that.

 

[Scalphunter]

Not sure how that relates to herd immunity. We’d have to have close to 15M cases in FL to have herd immunity. There’s no way we’re even close to that.

If you do your own research there is a plethora of information out there that suggest with current T-Cell immunity in conjunction with folks that have actual COVID-19 antibodies, that the herd immunity rate is between 15% to 20% of the population in order to gain herd immunity for COVID-19. In the State of Florida during just the current COVID-19 antibody testing (which is not taking into account T-Cell immunity) the antibody test is coming in at 20% - 25% at the testing sites. I believe the data bears this out in the State of Florida with hospitalizations and deaths in a steep decline. The only metrics that matter are those 2 metrics.

 

[nips 9]

If you do your own research there is a plethora of information out there that suggest with current T-Cell immunity in conjunction with folks that have actual COVID-19 antibodies, that the herd immunity rate is between 15% to 20% of the population in order to gain herd immunity for COVID-19. In the State of Florida during just the current COVID-19 antibody testing (which is not taking into account T-Cell immunity) the antibody test is coming in at 20% - 25% at the testing sites. I believe the data bears this out in the State of Florida with hospitalizations and deaths in a steep decline. The only metrics that matter are those 2 metrics.

Thank you, your answer is better than mine would have been.

 

[Scalphunter]

If you're unfamiliar with T-Cell immunity, I linked an article below from the National Institutes of Health that was published on August 18th.

Immune cells for common cold may recognize SARS-CoV-2

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2

 

[bookernole]

If you do your own research there is a plethora of information out there that suggest with current T-Cell immunity in conjunction with folks that have actual COVID-19 antibodies, that the herd immunity rate is between 15% to 20% of the population in order to gain herd immunity for COVID-19. In the State of Florida during just the current COVID-19 antibody testing (which is not taking into account T-Cell immunity) the antibody test is coming in at 20% - 25% at the testing sites. I believe the data bears this out in the State of Florida with hospitalizations and deaths in a steep decline. The only metrics that matter are those 2 metrics.

Question, is 8,000 out of 11,000 total deaths in July and august considered a “steep decline”? Today is Sept 2nd.

.

 

[Scalphunter]

Question, is 8,000 out of 11,000 total deaths in July and august considered a “steep decline”? Today is Sept 2nd.

.

So over HALF of deaths are over the age of 80 and 80% of all deaths are over the age 65 years old. The overwhelming majority with multiple comorbidities. The CDC just released a report this past week that stated that only 6% of all deaths nationwide were from COVID-19 alone which equates to only 9,000 deaths nationwide. Getting sick of of the ignorance.

Google is your friend buddy: https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/#latest-stats

Go to the lower right hand corner graph on statewide deaths and look for yourself.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

So yes, deaths in the State of Florida are in a steep decline!

Again here's a newsflash and I know this is crazy talk......OLD PEOPLE DIE. They've been dying since the beginning of time.

 

[Deerfuel2]

So over HALF of deaths are over the age of 80 and 80% of all deaths are over the age 65 years old. The overwhelming majority with multiple comorbidities. The CDC just released a report this past week that stated that only 6% of all deaths nationwide were from COVID-19 alone which equates to only 9,000 deaths nationwide. Getting sick of of the ignorance.

Google is your friend buddy: https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/#latest-stats

Go to the lower right hand corner graph on statewide deaths and look for yourself.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

So yes, deaths in the State of Florida are in a steep decline!

Again here's a newsflash and I know this is crazy talk......OLD PEOPLE DIE. They've been dying since the beginning of time.

Great Post. People have become entrenched in their position, and would rather hold on to the old narrative and science, than accept that it's not as bad as we all initially thought it could be

 

[GbrNole]

Daily death totals also include "because of COVID". This includes deaths such as Alzheimer's patients, and others with similar significant pre-existing conditions, that have passed due to insufficient care because of COVID lockdowns, not because they actually ever had COVID. The CDC acknowledges this.

 

[Jeffersoncountynole]

There is an interesting three part article on redstate.com by Michael Thau expanding on the implications of the NY Times findings.

 

[GbrNole]

There is an interesting three part article on redstate.com by Michael Thau expanding on the implications of the NY Times findings.

read it during a conference call. pleased i only had to listen in...

it's an interesting article, no less biased than the original NYT article. i think the more important question that hasn't been broached is delineating between excess deaths that occurred from a COVID infection and excess deaths that occurred due to insufficient care.

the CDC has already acknowledged that a certain number of deaths included in the COVID total never actually had COVID present. given the faulty PCR testing, this number might be much higher than originally thought.

we cannot, however, ignore that a significant number of excess deaths have occurred, a large portion of those attributed to the virus, mostly in the elderly or compromised patients.

ps. just for clarity on what I refer to as bias, i believe the NYT article uses the data they obtained to shill for more testing whereas the redstate article appears to do the opposite. i don't believe the data is invalid but i do believe it is not potentially being used in its most useful or practical way. my only opinion on testing is if you want one, get one.

 

[rowdienole]

The New York Times: Totally fake until it confirms my priors!

 

[GbrNole]

The New York Times: Totally fake until it confirms my priors!

i receive most news with curiosity regardless of its source. a bit sad that we have to comb through agenda much of the time.

 

[buckeyenole]

I really can't believe that no one has posted this article from over the weekend already. A plethora of highly qualified people have already discussed how the current PCR test for COVID-19 is overly sensitive and is picking up minute viral fragments in people who are not contagious at all. This article highlights this and from such an unsuspecting source as the New York Times. I linked the free version of this article that was re-posted in the Times Of India Newspaper.

In three sets of testing data that include cycle thresholds, compiled by officials in Massachusetts, New York and Nevada, up to 90% of people testing positive carried barely any virus, a review by The New York Times found.

On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aybe-it-shouldnt-be-/articleshow/77830805.cms

Very glad they published this. I read it on a medical website several weeks ago, along with a commentary by the Nobel-prize winning guy who developed this test, who said "IT WASN'T EVEN DESIGNED TO DIAGNOSE COVID." That it was to be used in manufacturing vaccines. And that it could show anyone positive or negative, depending on where states arbitrarily drew the "positive" line.

 

[Scalphunter]

This article from the BBC echoes the New York Times article:

Coronavirus: Tests 'could be picking up dead virus'

 

[GbrNole]

This article from the BBC echoes the New York Times article:

Coronavirus: Tests 'could be picking up dead virus'

this article linked within what you posted is equally as interesting, especially when you factor both.

Coronavirus: England death count review reduces UK toll by 5,000

Deaths recorded in England had included people who tested positive months before they died.

www.bbc.com

 

[fsufool]

I don’t doubt that but what are they suggesting then? Should the tests not just say “positive or negative” but also a percentage of some kind to indicate how infectious you are? Considering the range of symptoms people experience it certainly stands to reason there are “minor” exposures.

This will have far reaching consequences. A recent pre-print had to add it on the end of its paper. Cliff notes: A S Korean research paper concluded that children have a higher level infectious virus than adults even if asymptomatic and remain infectious for 14-18 days. This was covered by all the major media outlets recently.

However, when it was released in pre-print this appeared at the end:
"Notably, this study involved PCR tests, and the detection of SARS-CoV-2 using this method may not equate to infectivity, Kim and team noted."

So, basically, it invalidates the main findings of the study making it useless for public policy.

Not only this issue, but the wasted resources in tracing and isolating folks who are not infectious and those they came in contact with.

For research purposes the amount of cycles to find virus should be added into each positive case. For practical, public policy reasons, the cycles should be limited to no more than 30. Can't help but think the CDC knew this and just used this to incite more panic so when the vaccination appears they can get more people to take it, which is what the CDC has been about for decades. Not a conspiracy guy, but this whole thing has to make one wonder.

 

[fsufool]

Very glad they published this. I read it on a medical website several weeks ago, along with a commentary by the Nobel-prize winning guy who developed this test, who said "IT WASN'T EVEN DESIGNED TO DIAGNOSE COVID." That it was to be used in manufacturing vaccines. And that it could show anyone positive or negative, depending on where states arbitrarily drew the "positive" line.

Mullis died in August of 2019, so he didn't say anything about Covid. That is a myth.

 

[GbrNole]

pure opinion, but i think it will eventually weed itself out that isolation and restriction from necessary non-COVID medical care have been at least as responsible for excess deaths as the virus.

 

[buckeyenole]

Mullis died in August of 2019, so he didn't say anything about Covid. That is a myth.

Here you go:

Was the COVID-19 Test Meant to Detect a Virus? - UncoverDC

The Corona Simulation Machine: Why the Inventor of The “Corona Test” Would Have Warned Us Not To Use It To Detect A Virus“Scientists are doing an awful lot of damage to the world in the name of helping it. I don't mind attacking my own fraternity because I am ashamed of it.” --Kary Mullis...

uncoverdc.com

 

[F4Gary]

Here you go:

Was the COVID-19 Test Meant to Detect a Virus? - UncoverDC

The Corona Simulation Machine: Why the Inventor of The “Corona Test” Would Have Warned Us Not To Use It To Detect A Virus“Scientists are doing an awful lot of damage to the world in the name of helping it. I don't mind attacking my own fraternity because I am ashamed of it.” --Kary Mullis...

uncoverdc.com

That's a pretty eye-opening article. Thanks.

 

[GbrNole]

Here you go:

Was the COVID-19 Test Meant to Detect a Virus? - UncoverDC

The Corona Simulation Machine: Why the Inventor of The “Corona Test” Would Have Warned Us Not To Use It To Detect A Virus“Scientists are doing an awful lot of damage to the world in the name of helping it. I don't mind attacking my own fraternity because I am ashamed of it.” --Kary Mullis...

uncoverdc.com

powerful

"We think you’re an asshole, and we think you are wrong, but you’re the only dissenter, and we need one, because it’s science, it’s not religion.’ "

 

[GbrNole]

well there's a nugget I hadn't considered

“I just want to identify who sponsored that simulation conference, 6 weeks before the first news broke out of Wuhan,” I interjected. “It was the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, Johns Hopkins Center For Health Security, and the World Economic Forum. Incidentally, all the stats, projections and modeling you see in the media are coming out of Johns Hopkins.”

this makes me even more curious about Johns Hopkins receiving its core data from The Atlantic Magazine.