Looks like there was a hazing death at FSU over the weekend

[FSUTribe76]

I haven’t seen any story confirming it was a hazing death, just lots of innuendo before the coroner’s report.


http://www.news-press.com/story/new...ternity-has-faced-sanctions-before/832876001/

 

[DFSNOLE]

Terrible. I wish I had an answer.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Does anyone who goes to a non-technical school that is in a frat not end up in sales or as a Gap manager or something like that?

 

[DanC78]

Pledges shouldn’t drink their first two semesters. They should be cooking and cleaning and being designated drivers etc.

 

[seminole97]

“An investigation by the Tallahassee Democrat found that between January 2015 and April 2016, FSU led Florida's State University System in reported hazing allegations.

During that year, 21 hazing investigations into 15 Greek organizations were initiated; with all of them were determined the allegations to be unfounded or unprovable.”

21 investigations all came up blank. Good to know nothing is actually going on...

 

[F4Gary]

Does anyone who goes to a non-technical school that is in a frat not end up in sales or as a Gap manager or something like that?

Me.

 

[F4Gary]

Where in the article does it say he was hazed? It was an off campus party. How do you know he didn't just drink too much? It happens.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Me.

Said tongue in cheek, you get the point.....

 

[goldmom]

Does anyone who goes to a non-technical school that is in a frat not end up in sales or as a Gap manager or something like that?

I'll assume you're not serious, but aside from that, there's simply no explanation for the inability of law enforcement to stop the proliferation of stupid pills being universally prevalent on college campuses over the ages.

This is yet another sad example of horrid decision making. My heart sincerely goes out to the parents.

As for management material for the Gap, I have no answer. All I can tell you is that over 6 in 10 of all dollars donated by Alumni come from those who are members of Greek letter organizations. I will also go out on a limb and say that a healthy majority of Golden Chiefs are also Greek letter alums. Every tailgate I've been to this season was 100% Golden Chiefs and 100% fraternity alums. At some point we all grow up and realize we did some really dumb stupid pet tricks in college. Doesn't excuse what happened in any way, but GDI's in the dorms certainly didn't stay in on Saturday nights as far as I know.
Encouraging our kids to be better decision makers is vitally important and a required skill for success all through life.

 

[OrlandNole]

My roommate was a Pi Kappa Phi at FSU. Seemed like pretty laid back guys.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Where in the article does it say he was hazed? It was an off campus party. How do you know he didn't just drink too much? It happens.

It could be. But he was an underage pledge and the frat was immediately suspended. Sooooo....yeah....I’d say occam’s razor points to a very clear probability. But that’s why I phrased it vaguely, there’s a small chance he died of a heart attack or a brain embolism or something along those lines completely unrelated to being an underage pledge. But if this were a betting situation, I know where my money would be placed.

Also the fact that they were sanctioned repeatedly for hazing in the past five years is a good indicator that’s what occurred again.

 

[Random_John]

I wasn't in a frat and never cared to be. What exactly is the reason for the agression between Greeks and Non-Greeks? Is it a haves vs have nots issue? What does it matter?

 

[FSUTribe76]

What aggression is there in Greeks versus nonGreeks? Some jokes about nerds versus needing to buy your friends? I met plenty of nerd Greeks and plenty of unaligned people who bought friendship with their parents money.

 

[DanC78]

I had 4 roommates, all in the same fraternity. I was a working student and never really cared to join.

Our off campus house was used on many occasions for fraternity parties and some hazing (hell week). I never saw excessive drinking, they would just have pledges come over after parties and clean our house, they would bartend during the party as well. From my outsiders point of view, it was never bad.

The only crazy thing I saw was a kid tied to a pine tree in our backyard while eggs were thrown at him. And it was actually just one of my roommates and some dudes I didn't know who were throwing them, and he was a complete dork. I think it was his way of feeling cool, but he wasn't. I couldn't imagine seeing any of my other roommates partaking in something like that now that I think about it. But who knows what was going on back at their fraternity house.

If that kind of stuff was the norm...who in the hell would want to be associated with them???

 

[RunRonnieRun]

Does anyone who goes to a non-technical school that is in a frat not end up in sales or as a Gap manager or something like that?

Yes. Lots of us hire dormrats and GDIs to pick up grounds, pour drinks, and other menial tasks.

 

[OrlandNole]

Do you think Greeks are more likely to be OTP or ITP-ers?

 

[GamedayNole]

Where in the article does it say he was hazed? It was an off campus party. How do you know he didn't just drink too much? It happens.

I have a colleague that was a Pi Kapp. Word from him is that the house party was their Big Brother/Little Brother party.

As for solutions, there is a trend to bring Greek houses under University ownership. They basically becomes dorm that only a member of that fraternity or sorority can live in. Rent and utilities are paid to the University, maintenance and cleaning are performed by the University, etc. The trade-off is you never know when "the man" comes knocking on the door and wants to do a pass through of the common areas.

 

[FSU_UCLA]

The view among campus mental health professionals of the Greek system is pretty grim, with most of my colleagues preferring to see the entire culture and institution dismantled entirely. I don’t go that far, though I do think that Greek houses need to be completely dry and have a university house manager in residence.

UCLA has an interesting dynamic in that there are 10-20x more non-Greek student organizations than there are Greek organizations. The Greek orgs are explicitly a niche for students who want to drink and hook-up, and most students who join tend to have their fun for a year or two and then exit the system.

 

[FSUTribe76]

The view among campus mental health professionals of the Greek system is pretty grim, with most of my colleagues preferring to see the entire culture and institution dismantled entirely. I don’t go that far, though I do think that Greek houses need to be completely dry and have a university house manager in residence.

UCLA has an interesting dynamic in that there are 10-20x more non-Greek student organizations than there are Greek organizations. The Greek orgs are explicitly a niche for students who want to drink and hook-up, and most students who join tend to have their fun for a year or two and then exit the system.

It depends on the school. At William and Mary, the place where collegiate fraternities were literally invented there’s a pretty hefty involvement by the student body in both Greek lettered fraternities and the older secret societies. But unlike at FSU where the volunteerism and group assistance was incidental to the drinking and whoring, at William and Mary the drinking and whoring is incidental to the volunteerism and group assistance. At William and Mary the Greek and secret societies are highly beneficial to the school, I doubt that’s true of most schools beyond the ancient colleges.

 

[montconole]

I don't understand how an adult allows hazing to go on? You want me to chug a bottle of vodka? No. And the hazing is a right of passage into frats is a crock. It's a power trip for insecure egos.

 

[BelemNole]

Yes. Lots of us hire dormrats and GDIs to pick up grounds, pour drinks, and other menial tasks.

"I wasn't in a frat and never cared to be. What exactlyis the reason for the agression between Greeks and Non-Greeks? Is it a haves vs have nots issue? What does it matter?"
People like Ronnie.

 

[RunRonnieRun]

"I wasn't in a frat and never cared to be. What exactlyis the reason for the agression between Greeks and Non-Greeks? Is it a haves vs have nots issue? What does it matter?"
People like Ronnie.

 

[noleclone2]

It depends on the school. At William and Mary, the place where collegiate fraternities were literally invented there’s a pretty hefty involvement by the student body in both Greek lettered fraternities and the older secret societies. But unlike at FSU where the volunteerism and group assistance was incidental to the drinking and whoring, at William and Mary the drinking and whoring is incidental to the volunteerism and group assistance. At William and Mary the Greek and secret societies are highly beneficial to the school, I doubt that’s true of most schools beyond the ancient colleges.

Hey - I was in a fraternity at William and Mary!! And agree and also think it is the same at some other schools. One thing is there is some pretty sobering data on overdosing by alchohol that point to this not being a Fraternity thing or even a Colege Age kids thing. I think many of the deaths both fraternity and non fraternity events are not really hazing but mass binge drinking events that lead to terrible supervision of a medical crisis.

 

[TC Nole OX]

Incompetent & unqualified university president suspends all greek activities indefinitely.

http://www.fsunews.com/story/news/2...kappa-phi-fraternity-pledges-death/836055001/

 

[nolejam99]

It could be. But he was an underage pledge and the frat was immediately suspended. Sooooo....yeah....I’d say occam’s razor points to a very clear probability. But that’s why I phrased it vaguely, there’s a small chance he died of a heart attack or a brain embolism or something along those lines completely unrelated to being an underage pledge. But if this were a betting situation, I know where my money would be placed.

Also the fact that they were sanctioned repeatedly for hazing in the past five years is a good indicator that’s what occurred again.

Hazing sanctions can be for almost anything. When I was a pledge my fraternity was sanctioned for singing. Literally our pledge class was practicing for a skit and the campus police thought it was a prank.

And yes, this might be a case of forced drinking but it could just be a tragic accident. I know as a pledge we were not allowed to drink liquor and would have never been provided it at a sanctioned fraternity party.

 

[DanC78]

Incompetent & unqualified university president suspends all greek activities indefinitely.

http://www.fsunews.com/story/news/2...kappa-phi-fraternity-pledges-death/836055001/

Not sure if being sarcastic, but how can you not get onboard with his decsion, I think it’s great.

 

[TC Nole OX]

Not sure if being sarcastic, but how can you not get onboard with his decsion, I think it’s great.

Not at all sarcastic. He and his connected friends rigged the selection process to put him in this job for which he is in no way qualified. Look no further than the fact that we are on the hook to Jimbo for 40 million as evidence of his poor decision making.

As for this ban, it is absurd over-reach. If this particular fraternity broke rules, then they should be closed down. All fraternities and sororities do not deserve to be punished. Also, at this point, we don't even know if the student's death was hazing related.

 

[ericram]

FSU has banned Greek Life on campus. Should have been done before now. I commend FSU and Thrasher for making this decision.

 

[RTM58]

As for this ban, it is absurd over-reach. If this particular fraternity broke rules, then they should be closed down. All fraternities and sororities do not deserve to be punished. Also, at this point, we don't even know if the student's death was hazing related.

Exactly!

To be fair, they should ban drinking at any event with more than four students.

A ban on alcohol has also been issued at all Recognized Student Organization events during the interim suspension. “All of our student organizations – Greek organizations and the other recognized student organizations on campus – must step up. They will have to participate in the solution,” Thrasher said.

Occam's razor you say......

 

[DanC78]

Not at all sarcastic. He and his connected friends rigged the selection process to put him in this job for which he is in no way qualified. Look no further than the fact that we are on the hook to Jimbo for 40 million as evidence of his poor decision making.

As for this ban, it is absurd over-reach. If this particular fraternity broke rules, then they should be closed down. All fraternities and sororities do not deserve to be punished. Also, at this point, we don't even know if the student's death was hazing related.

Dude: the Greek life at FSU is notorious for being one of the wildest in the country. This kind of action is not an over reaction at all, some would argue overdue. He’s simply trying to change the culture and outlook oustsiders have when they think about FSU.

The Greek life is sanctioned by the university (I’m assuming this actually). So the school has full authority to do this and it’s their duty to take seriously.

FYI- my college self would wholeheartedly disagree with what future Dad self is saying, but it’s just how I feel about the situation.

And the way Thrasher was given be job is an entirely different topic.

 

[nolejam99]

Not at all sarcastic. He and his connected friends rigged the selection process to put him in this job for which he is in no way qualified. Look no further than the fact that we are on the hook to Jimbo for 40 million as evidence of his poor decision making.

As for this ban, it is absurd over-reach. If this particular fraternity broke rules, then they should be closed down. All fraternities and sororities do not deserve to be punished. Also, at this point, we don't even know if the student's death was hazing related.

I had the same feelings when he was named president but he has completely changed my mind and think he's done a great job. Thrasher has always been proactive. Whether is was defending the university from undue media criticism or making academic funding a priority, he is not one to sit around. Here he is taking another strong stand. This isn't a lifetime ban or anything, he is simply putting a stop to greek life for the time being in order to try and fix an issue. What is absurd about that?

 

[DanC78]

Here is another example of the precived culture of FSU:

My niece, who graduated high school 2 years ago was accepted to FSU. She has been a life long die hard fan. Super cute and super smart, and would be a great fit for the university.

The only problem is, she didnt want to go to school there because she was intimidated by the party culture she had heard so much about. She was flat out scared, I kid you not. She elected to go to community college and then FSU PC campus, which is where she is now.

I remember trying to convince her it wasn’t this crazy place where you have to be hammered in ordered to fit in etc. She was having none of it though.

Her older sister went to FSU in Tallahassee and she stayed alway from the Greek scene and got her bachelors by the time she 20. She is now 25 and makes 6 figures and does whatever she wants during her free time. She did it right.

 

[LesClaypool]

Good decision.

The fact TC is so opposed to it tells me it’s an even better idea than I realize too.

 

[seminole97]

This isn't a lifetime ban or anything, he is simply putting a stop to greek life for the time being in order to try and fix an issue. What is absurd about that?

Some of them frat bros are bad hombres.

 

[TC Nole OX]

I had the same feelings when he was named president but he has completely changed my mind and think he's done a great job. Thrasher has always been proactive. Whether is was defending the university from undue media criticism or making academic funding a priority, he is not one to sit around. Here he is taking another strong stand. This isn't a lifetime ban or anything, he is simply putting a stop to greek life for the time being in order to try and fix an issue. What is absurd about that?

It is simply a politician grandstanding, "doing something." There isn't much evidence of a problem other than a student died. In a population of around 40 thousand, that will happen. As has been pointed out in this thread already, pretty much anything can be classified as hazing. As was also pointed out, FSU conducted 21 investigations into fraternity hazing recently and came up empty every single time. Rather than acknowledging that the accusations were unfounded, administrators publicly lamented a "culture of silence."

Again, if there is evidence that this particular fraternity broke a rule, then punish them. There is zero reason to punish everyone else.

 

[surfnole]

Does anyone who goes to a non-technical school that is in a frat not end up in sales or as a Gap manager or something like that?

Yes me. Computer Science major working for one of the top ten richest men in the world.

 

[NoleFan2U]

I disagree on banning all Greek life. Yes there is a problem. And yes something needs to be done about it. But banning all Greek life because of one frat is ridiculous. Ban alcohol at all events, have the university over see them. There has to be a better solution. My daughter just told me she can't go to FSU now because she won't be able to join a sorority.

 

[TC Nole OX]

Here is another example of the precived culture of FSU:

My niece, who graduated high school 2 years ago was accepted to FSU. She has been a life long die hard fan. Super cute and super smart, and would be a great fit for the university.

The only problem is, she didnt want to go to school there because she was intimidated by the party culture she had heard so much about. She was flat out scared, I kid you not. She elected to go to community college and then FSU PC campus, which is where she is now.

I remember trying to convince her it wasn’t this crazy place where you have to be hammered in ordered to fit in etc. She was having none of it though.

Her older sister went to FSU in Tallahassee and she stayed alway from the Greek scene and got her bachelors by the time she 20. She is now 25 and makes 6 figures and does whatever she wants during her free time. She did it right.

So you and some of your family have a fantastical perception of FSU greek life and since one of them didn't go greek and now makes big time locker room money, fraternities and sororities should be banned. Makes sense

 

[surfnole]

It could be. But he was an underage pledge and the frat was immediately suspended. Sooooo....yeah....I’d say occam’s razor points to a very clear probability. But that’s why I phrased it vaguely, there’s a small chance he died of a heart attack or a brain embolism or something along those lines completely unrelated to being an underage pledge. But if this were a betting situation, I know where my money would be placed.

Also the fact that they were sanctioned repeatedly for hazing in the past five years is a good indicator that’s what occurred again.

Underage???? Really? Yes legally 20 years old is underage, but that is BS. In most of the world he is "of-age" and he would have been "of-age" in the early 80s when the drinking age was 18 or he would be of age in the military.

I have a little inside info, and I heard he died by drowning on his vomit. ala Jimmy Hendrix. Not sure that is true, but makes sense when he was found dead the next morning. I can't count the number of times I saw guys pass out, including myself, and we let them sleep it off.

 

[surfnole]

I have a colleague that was a Pi Kapp. Word from him is that the house party was their Big Brother/Little Brother party.

As for solutions, there is a trend to bring Greek houses under University ownership. They basically becomes dorm that only a member of that fraternity or sorority can live in. Rent and utilities are paid to the University, maintenance and cleaning are performed by the University, etc. The trade-off is you never know when "the man" comes knocking on the door and wants to do a pass through of the common areas.

Yes. It was a big brother little brother party.

On another note, how many non-Greek students die from overdoses, drinking and suicides, and why doesn't the university go after their friends?

I remember a few years back when a UCF student was prepped to go on a mass murder. Dorm room full of weapons. He killed himself. Why not go after the RA, his roommates and the Housing department?