Greece publishing photos of the Nazi-imposed famine during Germany's occupation during WWII.
Germany Greece reparations just got real
Germany Greece reparations just got real
Germany Greece reparations issue just got real
- Thread starter Lemon Thrower
- Start date
I'm living proof of that! Just giving you the German perspective, a people who are so guilt ridden about their past that they feel bad for everyone.
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Bjoern Werner was from there and he most certainly didn't seem to play that way.
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I don't think you guys are grasping the issue. The debt isn't money that Greece recently borrowed from Germany to build vacation houses or luxury cars.
Rather, the debt goes back to the war. Germany invaded during WWII and basically charged them rent for the cost of the invasion. That rent, plus compounded interest, is part of the "debt" that Germany claims Greece owes. On top of that, Germany effectively killed thousands of women and children through the famine that occurred during their occupation. So it would be unconscionable for the current leaders of Greece to tax its citizens to pay Germany for their war crimes.
On the other hand, if Greece defaults, the direct effect will be to cause losses to banks throughout the EU who hold German bonds. To say the least, this can be destabilizing to the European banking system and economy.
Rather, the debt goes back to the war. Germany invaded during WWII and basically charged them rent for the cost of the invasion. That rent, plus compounded interest, is part of the "debt" that Germany claims Greece owes. On top of that, Germany effectively killed thousands of women and children through the famine that occurred during their occupation. So it would be unconscionable for the current leaders of Greece to tax its citizens to pay Germany for their war crimes.
On the other hand, if Greece defaults, the direct effect will be to cause losses to banks throughout the EU who hold German bonds. To say the least, this can be destabilizing to the European banking system and economy.
I don't think you guys are grasping the issue. The debt
isn't money that Greece recently borrowed from Germany to build vacation
houses or luxury cars.
Correct, they recently borrowed money to keep their government operations going and government pension system disbursing payments. They're broke, and the EU just extended them more loans instead recognizing that fact. The new finance minister is in fact spot on in identifying the problem, "the problem with the bailout is that it wasn't really a bailout... it was an extend and pretend, it was a vicious cycle, a debt-deflationary trap, which destroyed our social economy."
Rather, the debt goes back to the war.
Germany invaded during WWII and basically charged them rent for the
cost of the invasion. That rent, plus compounded interest, is part of
the "debt" that Germany claims Greece owes.
No. The Greeks are asking for war reparations. The Greeks are trying to conflate their recent profligacy, underwritten by German and other EU banks, with tribute they had to pay to Nazi Germany.
If you want more details you can find them here.
On the other hand, if Greece defaults, the
direct effect will be to cause losses to banks throughout the EU who
hold German bonds. To say the least, this can be destabilizing to the
European banking system and economy.
It will mean losses to the institutions that hold Greek bonds (I imagine that is what you meant). A clue at what institutions hold those bonds gives you an idea of why 'the Greeks' have been 'bailed out' to this point (hint: they haven't, the bailouts are just cycling money back to the banks that bought the Greek debt).
Greece can't afford to repay the loans it has taken on. The more sane course is to recognize this is as soon as possible in order to avoid exacerbating the problem. Few years too late on that score, but each day makes it worse.
isn't money that Greece recently borrowed from Germany to build vacation
houses or luxury cars.
Correct, they recently borrowed money to keep their government operations going and government pension system disbursing payments. They're broke, and the EU just extended them more loans instead recognizing that fact. The new finance minister is in fact spot on in identifying the problem, "the problem with the bailout is that it wasn't really a bailout... it was an extend and pretend, it was a vicious cycle, a debt-deflationary trap, which destroyed our social economy."
Rather, the debt goes back to the war.
Germany invaded during WWII and basically charged them rent for the
cost of the invasion. That rent, plus compounded interest, is part of
the "debt" that Germany claims Greece owes.
No. The Greeks are asking for war reparations. The Greeks are trying to conflate their recent profligacy, underwritten by German and other EU banks, with tribute they had to pay to Nazi Germany.
If you want more details you can find them here.
On the other hand, if Greece defaults, the
direct effect will be to cause losses to banks throughout the EU who
hold German bonds. To say the least, this can be destabilizing to the
European banking system and economy.
It will mean losses to the institutions that hold Greek bonds (I imagine that is what you meant). A clue at what institutions hold those bonds gives you an idea of why 'the Greeks' have been 'bailed out' to this point (hint: they haven't, the bailouts are just cycling money back to the banks that bought the Greek debt).
Greece can't afford to repay the loans it has taken on. The more sane course is to recognize this is as soon as possible in order to avoid exacerbating the problem. Few years too late on that score, but each day makes it worse.
The war was a long time ago and the Germans paid very heavily for it as they should have.
GFY Greece, take care of your own people for a change. If some hairdresser wants to retire at 40 or whatever to live off the government, thats their problem, not Germany's.
war reparations is on top of the debt cancellation. you are correct that they are also asking for reparations, but incorrect if you mean there is not an issue of simply refusing to pay the cost of their occupation.
if they simply announce they don't intend to pay for the cost of their nazi occupation, credit markets will swoon.
btw, the reparations hysteria is propoganda put out by Germany. and Germany did pay reparations to others in the past, just not to Greece. There was even a treaty, but of course Greece was not asked to sign it since they didn't get paid.
war reparations is on top of the debt cancellation.
They hope to use the demand for reparations to offset some of their existing external debt load.
you are correct that they are also asking for reparations, but
incorrect if you mean there is not an issue of simply refusing to pay
the cost of their occupation.
if they simply announce they don't intend to pay for the cost of their nazi occupation, credit markets will swoon.
LT, what are you talking about?
Do you think someone is holding Nazi issued debt that Greece has to pay and will lose out if they refuse?
That's not what is happening.
Greeks are just trying to muddy the waters to get a better deal before they face reality and default (some more) to some degree.
There is no nazi issued debts out there threatening credit markets. The problem is Greek issued debt held by major banks in the other EU member states.
Realize the 'bailouts' (not too different from the 2008 bailouts here) were about saving those other EU member's banks from the bad bets on Greek debt, not about savings the Greeks. The EU has basically been trying to offload these bonds from the banks to the ECB, who will then take the loss if/when Greece defaults.
btw,
the reparations hysteria is propoganda put out by Germany.
So you think the Germans just raised the question of Germany paying reparations to Greece to obviate some of the Greek public debt out of the blue?
You are mistaken. This issue was raised by the Greeks, again seeking to offset the amount owed to foreign creditors.
did pay reparations to others in the past, just not to Greece.
Wrong again.
They hope to use the demand for reparations to offset some of their existing external debt load.
you are correct that they are also asking for reparations, but
incorrect if you mean there is not an issue of simply refusing to pay
the cost of their occupation.
if they simply announce they don't intend to pay for the cost of their nazi occupation, credit markets will swoon.
LT, what are you talking about?
Do you think someone is holding Nazi issued debt that Greece has to pay and will lose out if they refuse?
That's not what is happening.
Greeks are just trying to muddy the waters to get a better deal before they face reality and default (some more) to some degree.
There is no nazi issued debts out there threatening credit markets. The problem is Greek issued debt held by major banks in the other EU member states.
Realize the 'bailouts' (not too different from the 2008 bailouts here) were about saving those other EU member's banks from the bad bets on Greek debt, not about savings the Greeks. The EU has basically been trying to offload these bonds from the banks to the ECB, who will then take the loss if/when Greece defaults.
btw,
the reparations hysteria is propoganda put out by Germany.
So you think the Germans just raised the question of Germany paying reparations to Greece to obviate some of the Greek public debt out of the blue?
You are mistaken. This issue was raised by the Greeks, again seeking to offset the amount owed to foreign creditors.
and Germany
did pay reparations to others in the past, just not to Greece.
Wrong again.
Have you seen their retirement system?
It is nuts.
They regularly have folks retiring in their 40s.
I am sure the issue is complicated and involving more than one thing. But the Greeks ABSOLUTELY have helped do this to themselves.
It is nuts.
They regularly have folks retiring in their 40s.
I am sure the issue is complicated and involving more than one thing. But the Greeks ABSOLUTELY have helped do this to themselves.
I am confused are you saying that spending money you don't have for decades, promising people tons of stuff for nothing, spending money without any thought etc. is a bad idea economically? I have been reading and seeing on numerous TV shows that doing all the above is the way to economic prosperity and will create a solid economy.
