Guess Canes DO have enough cash to trash gold (en)

[UMatFSU]

Not really. They're a small private school that doesn't have much in the way of revenue. Fertile recruiting grounds or not, paying a top tier coach and a top tier staff is going to be a challenge for them, regardless of an Addidas deal.

I dunno for sure, but I'm kinda leaning toward the notion that UM may have more money than is commonly speculated. Again, per this Herald article, they're apparently willing to go north of 4 mil for the right head coach, Don't know what that means for overall staff budget, of course, but I'd have to think they wouldn't spend 90% of the available budget on a HC and 10% on all other staff combined...so at a minimum, a 4 mil HC would likely mean a 7 mil overall budget. Now, being "willing to spend" that much and actually spending that much are 2 diff things; we'll see.

"The donor said UM ended up eating $7 million by firing Golden on Sunday and not waiting until the end of the season. The buyout, the donor said, would have been about $4 million less had UM waited until after the season. But trustees, not James, the donor said, pushed the issue of firing Golden during Saturday's 58-0 loss to Clemson, the most lopsided in school history. That said, UM apparently had the money to do it and will have the money to offer its next coach upwards of $4 million a season, the donor said."....

Also, keep in mind that UM did sink 25 mil or so into athletic renovations over the last couple years, and has been in talks with Beckham and MLS to buy into a stadium (though it's looking doubtful that'll actually come through)...so it seems like UM has at least some money to spend.

 

[FSUTribe76]

That is debatable. SoCal and Dallas are just as good and probably provide more recruits than SoFla. Definitely top 5 in recruiting areas though.

Nah not true. I'd link to the study but it was done by the Collective of sports sites of which we may not speak so you'll have to google it yourself. But basically from 2007-2014, Texas as a whole is the #1 state at producing D1 talent (an average of 377 recruits of year with a high of 405) while Florida is number 2 as a whole with an average of 333 with a high of 372). California was a distant third averaging 247 with a high of 276. But California and Texas are both substantially larger states (Cali is 38 mil, Texas is 27 mil and Florida is 19 mil), if you break it down by number of D1 prospects per million of residents then Florida is still a respectable third even with all of the snowbirds artificially lowering our score (Alabama is 1 at 18.96 per mil, Louisiana is 2 at 18.28 per mil and Florida is 3 at 17.08 per mil). Meanwhile Texas is only 9th at 14.44 per mil just ahead of Ohio's 13.4 per mil and California is pretty dreadful only producing 6.5 D1 prospects per mil.

All that taken together means Florida is the most lucrative recruiting state taken as a whole (VERY good per population and probably #1 per HS student if anyone could break that down...I might myself at some point and a very large state) and Miami is the best part of the best state. You might find one high school that's more lucrative but within a reasonable car ride Miami is bringing you more recruits. Plus Florida only has three big time schools (FSU, Miami and Hogtown CC), two passable school (USF and UCF) and two awful schools (FIU and FAU) competing for D1 talent while Texas has five big time schools (Texas, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and TAMU), three passable schools (Houston, SMU and Rice) and four awful schools (North Texas, UTEP, Texas State and UT-San Antonio) all competing for Dallas' D1 talent.

 

[sunset30a]

That is debatable. SoCal and Dallas are just as good and probably provide more recruits than SoFla. Definitely top 5 in recruiting areas though.

I guess I should have said area that we recruit in but I think you get the point. They were close enough to us the past two games that I think it will be competitive again when and if they get a good coach.

 

[Fijimn]

It was my understanding, and I may be wrong, that Shalala no longer wanted Miami to be The U and, instead, wanted to improve its academic and research faculties. Thus, the reduction in the athletic department's budget, not recruiting "those kids," etc.

 

[FSUTribe76]

It was my understanding, and I may be wrong, that Shalala no longer wanted Miami to be The U and, instead, wanted to improve its academic and research faculties. Thus, the reduction in the athletic department's budget, not recruiting "those kids," etc.

Well then bad job. All I can comment is about law schools as that's all of the rankings I really paid attention to, but back when I was applying to law schools in 98 it was Miami #1, UF a relatively distant second and FSU an equally distant third. Now it's FSU and UF basically neck and neck the past couple of years and Miami a fairly distant third.

 

[Gonolz]

Luther Campbell tweeted that former players are going to hold a conference call to discuss the next HC.....the inmates running the asylum

Rumor has it that they are rallying around this guy as the next HC:

 

[UMatFSU]

It was my understanding, and I may be wrong, that Shalala no longer wanted Miami to be The U and, instead, wanted to improve its academic and research faculties. Thus, the reduction in the athletic department's budget, not recruiting "those kids," etc.

Don't know how true that is. UM's athletic budget wasn't reduced, to my knowledge.

It's true that Shalala wanted UM to move away from the old "U"...hence the hiring of Randy Shannon (a guy from the 'hood, like many UM recruits, who tried to straighten out the players and improved UM's grad rate) and then Al Golden (white-bread Joe Paterno disciple who didn't tolerate much in the way of off-the-field BS).

But I think that desire had more to do with the fact that Shalala presided over the end of Larry Coker's tenure (which ended with the fight with FIU and included a couple murdered players) as well as the whole Nevin Shapiro. Given those two big issues, it'd be easy to see how Shalala would make the moves she did (eg, hiring Shannon after Coker, to clean that mess up, and then Golden after Shannon, to clean another mess), and why she'd be reluctant to allow those coaches to recruit players who would further damage UM's reputation or bring in a coach who values winning above all else.

 

[RTM58]

Nah not true. I'd link to the study but it was done by the Collective of sports sites of which we may not speak so you'll have to google it yourself. But basically from 2007-2014, Texas as a whole is the #1 state at producing D1 talent (an average of 377 recruits of year with a high of 405) while Florida is number 2 as a whole with an average of 333 with a high of 372). California was a distant third averaging 247 with a high of 276.

Not all talent is created equally. Big D wins championships!

 

[Fijimn]

Don't know how true that is. UM's athletic budget wasn't reduced, to my knowledge.

It's true that Shalala wanted UM to move away from the old "U"...hence the hiring of Randy Shannon (a guy from the 'hood, like many UM recruits, who tried to straighten out the players and improved UM's grad rate) and then Al Golden (white-bread Joe Paterno disciple who didn't tolerate much in the way of off-the-field BS).

But I think that desire had more to do with the fact that Shalala presided over the end of Larry Coker's tenure (which ended with the fight with FIU and included a couple murdered players) as well as the whole Nevin Shapiro. Given those two big issues, it'd be easy to see how Shalala would make the moves she did (eg, hiring Shannon after Coker, to clean that mess up, and then Golden after Shannon, to clean another mess), and why she'd be reluctant to allow those coaches to recruit players who would further damage UM's reputation or bring in a coach who values winning above all else.

I think "reduction," was not accurate on my part. More like: she didn't want to keep up with the Jones'

 

[DanC78]

I thought this was a great article on U and its program. Kind of gives you an idea how the university is breaking relations with the bad characters fro its past and how that is affecting the program.

It's centered around Uncle Luke, but still a great read IMO.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...er-campbell-uncle-luke-coach-miami-hurricanes

(SIAP)

 

[SoProudNole]

Apparently, he'd be a hit with the cane fan(s)....

 

[crooked_rain]

I thought this was a great article on U and its program. Kind of gives you an idea how the university is breaking relations with the bad characters fro its past and how that is affecting the program.

It's centered around Uncle Luke, but still a great read IMO.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...er-campbell-uncle-luke-coach-miami-hurricanes

(SIAP)

Yeah, I read that article recently. Their loss has been our gain. Glad we got Devonta and Cook out of Miami.

I'm hoping for Schiano, and not Butch coming back. Apparently the Memphis coach is in the running, but, I don't know his background.

 

[UMatFSU]

I think "reduction," was not accurate on my part. More like: she didn't want to keep up with the Jones'

To be fair, Shalala did agree to pay Golden a top-30 salary when he was first hired, and OK'd the hire of James Coley at around 750k...and my understanding is that Mark D'Onofrio (UM's DC) made some solid cash too. The other assistants...eh.

She also tried to bargain with the city of Miami to salvage the OB, and failing that, she tried to bargain with Beckham and MLS recently to go in on a 40-50k stadium near the old OB site.

She also oversaw some of the largest improvements in athletics facilities within the last 30 years at UM.

So I'm not sold on the idea that she intentionally de-emphasized football. I just think she made some bad hires in an attempt to do things "the right way," and she presided over a rough period for UM. I also think that she likely micro-managed the hell out of things, to the point that the position of Athletic Director was virtually neutered.

 

[OrlandNole]

Shalala personally oversaw the fundraising

 

[FSUTribe76]

To be fair, Shalala did agree to pay Golden a top-30 salary when he was first hired, and OK'd the hire of James Coley at around 750k...and my understanding is that Mark D'Onofrio (UM's DC) made some solid cash too. The other assistants...eh.

She also tried to bargain with the city of Miami to salvage the OB, and failing that, she tried to bargain with Beckham and MLS recently to go in on a 40-50k stadium near the old OB site.

She also oversaw some of the largest improvements in athletics facilities within the last 30 years at UM.

So I'm not sold on the idea that she intentionally de-emphasized football. I just think she made some bad hires in an attempt to do things "the right way," and she presided over a rough period for UM. I also think that she likely micro-managed the hell out of things, to the point that the position of Athletic Director was virtually neutered.

This was the deathnail in the Miami football program.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article27488947.html

With no shot of building a smaller stadium semi-near the school, it's dead as an elite program. No coach will magically change that. They might get it to Temple levels of relevance with the right coach but a private school with no local fan support and playing in an empty cavernous pro stadium an hour away is doomed. I agree with Small Slimebaum on this one point, that UCF and USF are now in a better situation than Miami and you might even be able to argue FAU as well.

 

[LesClaypool]

Never say never I suppose, but I can't see FAU and their rinky dink little stadium ever being viewed as a legitimate place for any elite players to go.

 

[SWFNole]

Not really. They're a small private school that doesn't have much in the way of revenue. Fertile recruiting grounds or not, paying a top tier coach and a top tier staff is going to be a challenge for them, regardless of an Addidas deal.

Too true. Right now with the state of the UM facilities (stadium issue, athletic facilities not up to par with top tier programs) the U has become a head-coach career graveyard when it used to be a stepping stone.

 

[SWFNole]

This was the deathnail in the Miami football program.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article27488947.html

With no shot of building a smaller stadium semi-near the school, it's dead as an elite program. No coach will magically change that. They might get it to Temple levels of relevance with the right coach but a private school with no local fan support and playing in an empty cavernous pro stadium an hour away is doomed. I agree with Small Slimebaum on this one point, that UCF and USF are now in a better situation than Miami and you might even be able to argue FAU as well.

UCF is poised to become a solid program now that O'Leary has retired, but the primary thing holding them back will be a lack of Power 5 conference $. Their next hire is going to be key to advancing the program to the point where they're invited to a P5.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Never say never I suppose, but I can't see FAU and their rinky dink little stadium ever being viewed as a legitimate place for any elite players to go.

Yeah I dont 100% agree about FAU but 20,000 fans in a new 30,000 seat stadium is more impressive and a better environment than 15,000 in cavernous 76,000 stadium with bad sightlines as it was multipurpose design.

 

[UMatFSU]

This was the deathnail in the Miami football program.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article27488947.html

With no shot of building a smaller stadium semi-near the school, it's dead as an elite program. No coach will magically change that. They might get it to Temple levels of relevance with the right coach but a private school with no local fan support and playing in an empty cavernous pro stadium an hour away is doomed. I agree with Small Slimebaum on this one point, that UCF and USF are now in a better situation than Miami and you might even be able to argue FAU as well.

Miami still has pull with recruits--they regularly haul in top-25 classes. UCF/USF, FAU...not so much. They're lucky to pull in classes ranked in the 70s.

The right coach can step into UM and win the coastal next year. The talent is there, and the coastal is weak.

Win and the crowds come back.

 

[Fijimn]

Yeah, it's difficult for me to see Miami being dead. There is too much talent in the area. SMU could be a comparison. It was a similar powerhouse located in a large city with fertile recruiting grounds. But, not only did SMU get the death penalty, it lost it power structure in the legislature and governor's office. Then, when the Southwest Conference disbanded -- SMU didn't have the political muscle to be included.

 

[FSUTribe76]

UCF is poised to become a solid program now that O'Leary has retired, but the primary thing holding them back will be a lack of Power 5 conference $. Their next hire is going to be key to advancing the program to the point where they're invited to a P5.

Actually that kind of goes into the conference realignment discussion as I think there's plenty of content providers out there (FS1, CBSSN, NBCSN and of course the networks and four letter network) that may be interested in cobbling together a new P5 conference. Or perhaps when the Big 12 and ACC cobble together the leftovers merge with the American and a few other decent schools.

I'll post more about that later.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Yeah, it's difficult for me to see Miami being dead. There is too much talent in the area. SMU could be a comparison. It was a similar powerhouse located in a large city with fertile recruiting grounds. But, not only did SMU get the death penalty, it lost it power structure in the legislature and governor's office. Then, when the Southwest Conference disbanded -- SMU didn't have the political muscle to be included.

I don't think Miami is dead dead. As you point out its got enough leftover talent in Miami that even as third pick it can field lower top 25 ranked teams on a regular basis with the right coach. It's just dead as a dominant program. Same as Nebraska.

 

[TexSkills]

Yeah, it's difficult for me to see Miami being dead. There is too much talent in the area. SMU could be a comparison. It was a similar powerhouse located in a large city with fertile recruiting grounds. But, not only did SMU get the death penalty, it lost it power structure in the legislature and governor's office. Then, when the Southwest Conference disbanded -- SMU didn't have the political muscle to be included.

Good comparison although my instinct tells me SMU could get that program competitive if their alums coughed up the money. Their alums have the dough.

 

[UMatFSU]

I don't think Miami is dead dead. As you point out its got enough leftover talent in Miami that even as third pick it can field lower top 25 ranked teams on a regular basis with the right coach. It's just dead as a dominant program. Same as Nebraska.

Seems like you're all over the place here, Tribe.

First you say UM is being eclipsed by UCF/USF/FAU. And they'll be lucky to get back to Temple levels...Temple's never finished in the top 25, and UCF/USF/FAU have only had a couple top-25 finishes among them, ever.

Now you're saying they can field a top-25 team team on a regular basis with the right coach..and you compare them to Nebraska...who lacks the talent-rich recruiting grounds that UM inhabits.

Meanwhile, your whole theory seems to be based on one premise...that UM plays too far from their campus.

Uh, OK.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Seems like you're all over the place here, Tribe. First you say UM will be lucky to get back to Temple levels...Temple's never finished in the top 25. Now you're saying they can field a top-25 team team on a regular basis with the right coach..and you compare them to Nebraska...who lacks the talent-rich recruiting grounds that UM inhabits. Your whole theory seems to be based on one premise...that UM plays too far from their campus.

Uh, OK.

Temple is 21 in the AP and 22 in the coaches currently which is what I'm referring to. Miami could get there with the right coach and occasionally pop up to decent top ten. I'm not implying Miami is Temple. Miami is Temple in a much better recruiting area as PA only produces about 60-90 D1 recruits for the whole state. Miami-FT Lauderdale probably produces that much by itself or maybe more.

Nebraska screwed themselves because they no longer have access to Texas which was their only source of decent recruits (the Midwest outside of Ohio, Michigan and PA if you count that as Midwest and I don't). They still have the loyal fanbase, filled stadiums, great tradition and decent facilities but no longer have good access to a solid recruiting base. Nebraska produces 10-20 D1 recruits a year and that's not 10-20 elite D1 recruits just any D1 level. Miami has access to a good recruiting base but %*%* for facilities and %*%* for fanbases. Don't say "the fans will come back when we win", even when Miami was at the elite level back in their heyday the fanbase was sad compared to the other big boys just not absolutely pathetic like that game against Clemson with the 1/2 empty stadium at the start and 1/20th filled stadium at the start of the third quarter. But the fans didn't matter because money was rolling from some other...donors. I don't think Miami has access to those same....donors when they're playing in FT Lauderdale where literally no one cares. When in Overtown, there were lots of....donors because homeboys were "taking care of each other".

Look at all of the currently elite level programs that are usually in the Top 10 or thereabouts. Pretty much without exception teams with good fanbases, good coaches, good access to lucrative recruiting spots either directly because they are situated there or because of traditional inroads (like Notre Dame, Michigan), and good to great facilities/stadium. There's only two exceptions I can think of recently that doesn't have all of the above as Michigan State lacks a real lucrative recruiting area although Michigan and Ohio isn't as bereft of talent as places like Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois and Minnesota and Stanford which lacks a truly loyal fanbase but they make up for it as well by having supremely rich alums even if fewer in number. But outside of MSU and Stanford, all of the usual suspects recently ie Ohio State, Alabama, FSU, LSU, Baylor, TCU, Clemson, Auburn until this year, etc... Have a complete combo of good fanbase, good facilities, good recruiting access, and a good coach. Right now Nebraska's got two of the four (fanbase and facilities) and Miami has one of the four (recruiting access). That's why imo, Miami has zero shot of becoming consistently elite again. No fanbase of consequence and #*%* for facilities. Even with the right coach you're missing half the equation. UCF and USF are each sitting on about half (recruiting plus facilities) and with the right coach is just missing a loyal fanbase and the money that comes with it. If you have the other three, you can build the fanbase.

 

[UMatFSU]

Temple's ranked because they're having a freak season (they've never started 7-0 before, in their entire history)...in a non-power 5 conference. They'll be unranked after getting clobbered by ND this weekend, they'll likely lose one or two more down the stretch (Memphis, potentially USF), and finish out of the top 25. And they may or may not ever see the top 25 again, depending on whether Matt Rhule gets picked up by a team with a bigger budget. So basically, they share no similarities with UM other than the fact that they're a private school in a large city. And they both employed Al Golden at one time. Implying anything more is simply silly.

I don't disagree with you about about Nebraska losing their core recruiting grounds...but again, I'm not sure what comparison you're drawing to Miami here. The two aren't analogous programs, as you point out. Miami still has a solid recruiting ground.

Even though they've been losing, they still regularly get top-25 classes, which, in the hands of a capable coach, means good seasons year-in/year-out...UM should win the Coastal far more times than not, given the recruiting disparity alone. Sustained success at that level means that those 5-star kids from So Fla who went to FSU/UF/Bama instead of Miami begin to come back to UM. Which begets top-10 classes instead of top-25. Which then begets more wins, occasional conference championships, shots at playoff bowl games, and shots at national titles. Which then brings bigger crowds to games like UM/Clemson and fewer folks leaving in exodus at halftime.

As for your knock on Miami's attendance...yeah, I get it. UM's attendance sucks. No kidding. But, as stated above, when they win, they definitely draw big crowds against high-ranked opponents. Back in the heyday (even the early 2000s heyday), games against the likes of Oklahoma, VT (when they were winning), UF, FSU, ND, etc...those games sold out, or came damn close to it. The games against middle-tier opponents would draw 40-50k, and the games against nobodies would bring in 30-40k. Get UM back in the top-20 on a regular basis and you'll start to see those crowds again, instead of what you saw for the Clemson game.

By your own measure of the 4 things needed for success, UM has only ever had 2 of them at a maximum (coach, recruits). The fan base at UM has never been steady (though they do come out for big games when UM is winning), and the facilities have always been poor in comparison to the FSU/UF/Bamas. The facilities (aside from stadium) at UM these days are actually better than they've ever been, though that's not saying much, admittedly. The only difference between the best of times (then) and the worst of times (now) is the fact that UM hasn't had a good coach in the last 10-15 years.

So, basically your argument boils down to "UM sucks. and they have lost their ...donors..winkwink'" OK, cool.

 

[Bartdog]

If Miami were the Miami of old, there wouldn't be an Internet or cell phones. They'd have a recruiting advantage simply by having the easiest access to players.

The world's changed. The Internet means there aren't tons of undiscovered gems out there. The budgets schools have allow them to pursue the players. Cell phones and the Internet allow regular contact.

I have heard this before. I saw a graphic that showed how their recruiting dropped with the advent of youtube. When these kids' abilities are known outside the area... Having said that, the story on Davonta was that he was discovered by accident on an in-person trip to watch another player.