Is New York Times Smearing Jameis Winston?

[alaskanseminole]

Well, looky there...an article that sums up every single thing we've been saying for 2 years now. (I forwarded it on to our friend Nancy Armour

)



I doubt this will make ESPN ticker

 

[Dr. Nole]

Like we have said countless times:
Even the most rudimentary investigation into this case would lead you to know Jameis was innocent.

The scary thing was watching the mob mentality who didn't want to know the facts. They were and are more than willing to slander an innocent person simply because of the team he plays for and his success.

 

[cmanole]

What's puzzling is what the NY Times has to gain by this? We know what ESPN had to gain, but the Times?

 

[Dr. Nole]

Originally posted by cmanole:
What's puzzling is what the NY Times has to gain by this? We know what ESPN had to gain, but the Times?

We are not allowed to discuss what that could be on here.

 

[MuchasVeces]

Originally posted by cmanole:
What's puzzling is what the NY Times has to gain by this? We know what ESPN had to gain, but the Times?

Bold headlines sell advertisements. The answer is, very simply, "money"

 

[alaskanseminole]

Originally posted by Dr. Nole:
We are not allowed to discuss what that could be on here.

We're not allowed to discuss eSECpn's biased agenda?

DOT discusses it often and on these boards.

 

[Dr. Nole]

Originally posted by alaskanseminole:

Originally posted by Dr. Nole:
We are not allowed to discuss what that could be on here.

We're not allowed to discuss eSECpn's biased agenda?

DOT discusses it often and on these boards.

No, I meant we aren't allowed to discuss what motivations the NYTimes may be using (ie politics)

 

[kc78]

That article would be a lot more exciting if it wasn't written by an admitted Nole fan. I'd like to see the "unbiased" media finally admit to this.

 

[Rhino_nole]

Originally posted by kc78:
That article would be a lot more exciting if it wasn't written by an admitted Nole fan. I'd like to see the "unbiased" media finally admit to this.

You're thinking of the article written by SBNation, that author was a Nole fan and graduate. Stuart Taylor Jr is a Princeton and Harvard Law graduate from the north east.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Originally posted by kc78:
That article would be a lot more exciting if it wasn't written by an admitted Nole fan. I'd like to see the "unbiased" media finally admit to this.

He is?

Stuart Taylor Jr.[/B] is an American journalist. He graduated from The Wall Street Journal[/I].

He is the co-author, with Professor K.C. Johnson of Brooklyn College, of Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustice of the Duke Lacrosse Case[/I] (ISBN 0-312-36912-3). It was published in September 2007.

 

[fsugrad]

Does anyone know whatever happened to Kinsman's hometown boyfriend, Jamal Roberts? Remember he was also an african american kid that was a qb and played baseball, too. He was at Kent State University the year all this went down. Now he's not on the roster anymore. Wonder if she ruined his life, too.

 

[alaskanseminole]

The headline is unusually blunt: 'Is the New York Times Smearing Jameis Winston?,' a reference to the Heisman-winning quarterback of Florida State, who has been accused of rape, a case discussed in 40 New York Times articles. Stuart Taylor, Jr., author of the blunt article today on Real Clear Sports, is an attorney and veteran journalist who has worked for National Journal and the New York Times.
Taylor, co-author (with KC Johnson) of the classic analysis of the Duke lacrosse hoax, "Until Proven Innocent," thinks the Times's many articles on Winston are "all pointing to a single conclusion: He is guilty, and the state of Florida and his school have excused his crime because of his football prowess. But there is a large body of evidence that The Times[/I] has kept from its readers that would lead a discerning reader to another conclusion: that Winston has been cleared by three separate investigations because the evidence shows that his claim that his accuser consented to have sex is as credible as her often-revised account."

THE STRANGE EFFORT TO GET JAMEIS WINSTON

 

[Dr. Nole]

Originally posted by MuchasVeces:

Originally posted by cmanole:
What's puzzling is what the NY Times has to gain by this? We know what ESPN had to gain, but the Times?

Bold headlines sell advertisements. The answer is, very simply, "money"

True.

The NYTimes has gotten 40 stories from the Jameis situation.

Had they written the truth they would have only written one: He's innocent and was falsely accused...end of story.

 

[montconole]

Originally posted by alaskanseminole:

Originally posted by kc78:
That article would be a lot more exciting if it wasn't written by an admitted Nole fan. I'd like to see the "unbiased" media finally admit to this.

He is?

Stuart Taylor Jr.[/B] is an American journalist. He graduated from The Wall Street Journal[/I].

He is the co-author, with Professor K.C. Johnson of Brooklyn College, of Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustice of the Duke Lacrosse Case[/I] (ISBN 0-312-36912-3). It was published in September 2007.

The research by Patrick Nohe is cited at the bottom of the article so people will bash the story because Nohe writes for a pro-FSU website.

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

My work network has that site blocked. Can someone summarize?

 

[kc78]

Got you. I saw this at the bottom of the article, but didn't read the full item.

Stuart Taylor Jr., is a freelance author and journalist. Patrik Nohe, editor of ChopChat, a news site covering Florida State sports, helped research and prepare this article.

I just saw the editor of ChopChat part and assumed that belonged to the author. I am happily corrected.

 

[SeaPA]

Originally posted by fsugrad:
Does anyone know whatever happened to Kinsman's hometown boyfriend, Jamal Roberts? Remember he was also an african american kid that was a qb and played baseball, too. He was at Kent State University the year all this went down. Now he's not on the roster anymore. Wonder if she ruined his life, too.

I didn't realize he was no longer at Kent. I'll ask around, I know him a little & know some of his family.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Originally posted by More Kirk Less Spock:
My work network has that site blocked. Can someone summarize?

It's five full pages summarizing all the holes in Erica's various stories and showing NYT's biased coverage and omission of facts that would go against their agenda.

 

[TexSkills]

Journalistic integrity isn't exactly a strong suit of the NY Times so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

[dmm5157]

Originally posted by kc78:
Got you. I saw this at the bottom of the article, but didn't read the full item.

Stuart Taylor Jr., is a freelance author and journalist. Patrik Nohe, editor of ChopChat, a news site covering Florida State sports, helped research and prepare this article.

I just saw the editor of ChopChat part and assumed that belonged to the author. I am happily corrected.

Patrik Nohe is the FSU writer who wrote a great response to the NYT piece a couple of months ago on Chop Chat and began with his current position and history as a journalist. Sounds like a lot of what Stuart Taylor wrote comes from what Patrik wrote in that original article.

Here's a link to that story: http://chopchat.com/2014/12/24/heres-new-york-times-isnt-telling/

Here's what the NYT Isn't Telling you

 

[fsugrad]

Originally posted by SeaPA:

Originally posted by fsugrad:
Does anyone know whatever happened to Kinsman's hometown boyfriend, Jamal Roberts? Remember he was also an african american kid that was a qb and played baseball, too. He was at Kent State University the year all this went down. Now he's not on the roster anymore. Wonder if she ruined his life, too.

I didn't realize he was no longer at Kent. I'll ask around, I know him a little & know some of his family.

Thanks. Would've loved to have been privy to the conversations between Erica and Jamal after the JW incident. Maybe he still goes to Kent State but he's not on the football team anymore...

 

[gcnole]

Problem is, this story was too big to let facts get in the way. These so called journalist only saw the headline "Star QB of a national championship team commits rape and the city and school cover it up,all in the name of winning football games" It is way too good of a headline to let go, even if the facts do not support their story. I mean this is stuff journalist masturbate over! All objectivity went out the window the minute they realized how big of a story this could be. They also know that the majority of the people who are going to read their articles want this story to be true as much as they do. They will not be scrutinized for reporting half-truths and obvious bias. It's really a win win for them. They can Tee off on Winston and FSU and know that they will not be called out for it.

Honestly, I feel much better about our program after all of this then I did before. I mean seriously, we had a NY times investigating reporters camped out in Tallahassee trying to dig up as much dirt as they could about the school and team. They really came up with nothing. How many schools do you think could say the same? How many schools do you think would fare better then FSU if they had these reporters trying to dig up any dirt that they could?

 

[alaskanseminole]

Response from Nancy Armour of USA Today re: this article:



XXX,

I would have a lot more faith in the investigations that "cleared" Winston had the Tallahassee police done their job in the first place. It's going to be near impossible to find evidence of wrongdoing when you wait a year to look.

Best,
Nancy

 

[Rhino_nole]

Originally posted by alaskanseminole:
Response from Nancy Armour of USA Today re: this article:




XXX,



I would have a lot more faith in the investigations that "cleared" Winston had the Tallahassee police done their job in the first place. It's going to be near impossible to find evidence of wrongdoing when you wait a year to look.



Best,

Nancy

Such an awful and lazy response.

Rape kit examination includes: buccal swabs for DNA testing, physical examinations of suspected areas, an interview an a litany of other examinations with a certified forensic nurse and a doctor in the room.

Interviews of friends.

BAC and toxicology test (done in Tampa FDLE office and later at the UF toxicology certification lab).

The video from Bullwinkles is important but it doesn't make or break the case especially when you have 3 interviews from friends of the accuser and interviews from 2 friends of the accused that all back up one single narrative.

It's also kind of hard to investigate a crime when the accuser forces the hand of the LEO by not cooperating w/ the investigation any further.

 

[dmm5157]

Originally posted by Rhino_nole:

Originally posted by alaskanseminole:
Response from Nancy Armour of USA Today re: this article:




XXX,



I would have a lot more faith in the investigations that "cleared" Winston had the Tallahassee police done their job in the first place. It's going to be near impossible to find evidence of wrongdoing when you wait a year to look.



Best,

Nancy

Such an awful and lazy response.

Rape kit examination includes: buccal swabs for DNA testing, physical examinations of suspected areas, an interview an a litany of other examinations with a certified forensic nurse and a doctor in the room.

Interviews of friends.

BAC and toxicology test (done in Tampa FDLE office and later at the UF toxicology certification lab).

The video from Pottbelly's is important but it doesn't make or break the case especially when you have 3 interviews from friends of the accuser and interviews from 2 friends of the accused that all back up one single narrative.

It's also kind of hard to investigate a crime when the accuser forces the hand of the LEO by not cooperating w/ the investigation any further.

It was Pott's, not Bullwinkle's, but I see your point.

I would argue that it's nearly impossible to prove that a crime occurred on many rape allegations regardless of how quickly a perceived investigation took place.


Co-worker said repeated the popular quote that hits home and should be reiterated: "You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else".

In this case, certain members of the media have an agenda and Winston fits so many of the checklist:
Successful athleteAllegations taking place in a football town that can fit the "win at all costs" narrativePerception of special treatmentPerception of accused not being remorsefulAccused being a "loud, arrogant black athlete"Accused being labeled a "thug" by many outsiders ... I'll just leave it there, I think we can read between the lines here


Facts don't matter when you have an agenda. Even if Erica Kinsman recanted and admitted it was all false, it would not change the "all-in" position some in the media have taken. There is no turning back now, Jameis has been made to take the fall for all the perceived injustice that has come before him. So many like to ignore the Mark Sanchez's, whose persona is marketed as being squeaky clean. Some of this is a result of the Social Media era we live in now.

I'm so sick of it, only way to avoid it, it seems, is to stay off the internet.

 

[Rhino_nole]

Originally posted by dmm5157:

Originally posted by Rhino_nole:

Originally posted by alaskanseminole:
Response from Nancy Armour of USA Today re: this article:





XXX,



I would have a lot more faith in the investigations that "cleared" Winston had the Tallahassee police done their job in the first place. It's going to be near impossible to find evidence of wrongdoing when you wait a year to look.



Best,

Nancy

Such an awful and lazy response.

Rape kit examination includes: buccal swabs for DNA testing, physical examinations of suspected areas, an interview an a litany of other examinations with a certified forensic nurse and a doctor in the room.

Interviews of friends.

BAC and toxicology test (done in Tampa FDLE office and later at the UF toxicology certification lab).

The video from Pottbelly's is important but it doesn't make or break the case especially when you have 3 interviews from friends of the accuser and interviews from 2 friends of the accused that all back up one single narrative.

It's also kind of hard to investigate a crime when the accuser forces the hand of the LEO by not cooperating w/ the investigation any further.

It was Pott's, not Bullwinkle's, but I see your point.

I would argue that it's nearly impossible to prove that a crime occurred on many rape allegations regardless of how quickly a perceived investigation took place.


Co-worker said repeated the popular quote that hits home and should be reiterated: "You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else".

In this case, certain members of the media have an agenda and Winston fits so many of the checklist:


Successful athlete
Allegations taking place in a football town that can fit the "win at all costs" narrative
Perception of special treatment
Perception of accused not being remorseful
Accused being a "loud, arrogant black athlete"
Accused being labeled a "thug" by many outsiders ... I'll just leave it there, I think we can read between the lines here


Facts don't matter when you have an agenda. Even if Erica Kinsman recanted and admitted it was all false, it would not change the "all-in" position some in the media have taken. There is no turning back now, Jameis has been made to take the fall for all the perceived injustice that has come before him. So many like to ignore the Mark Sanchez's, whose persona is marketed as being squeaky clean. Some of this is a result of the Social Media era we live in now.

I'm so sick of it, only way to avoid it, it seems, is to stay off the internet.

I do agree with you in general that it's hard to prove rape allegations regardless of time of collection of evidence but you can't hinder the investigation by making things up. The narrative against Winston is an easy story to sell especially if you look at places like Vanderbilt where a gang rape happened w/ a coach admitting he had knowledge and there's nothing near the national out cry. Or the 2 UM players that admitted to assaulting an underage girl. A bunch of no name guys on no name teams that aren't in the national spotlight don't sell advertisement slots.

It reminds me of the time when the Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped. At the same exact time in California and Detroit a Hispanic girl and a black girl were each kidnapped and no one cared (beyond the region of the crime). No national coverage on the level of the Smart family, no Nancy Grace camping out in front of the house, no private sectors assisting on their own dime in the investigation, no high profile criminalist helping out pro bono. As I watched this unfold, I was at first pissed and out raged but as I slowly realized, upper middle class white girl being kidnapped from her home resonates more w/ the majority of America than two brown girls. One story sells, one doesn't and the nature of this is kind of sad.

 

[tommynole3476]

Originally posted by Rhino_nole:
It's also kind of hard to investigate a crime when the accuser forces the hand of the LEO by not cooperating w/ the investigation any further.

To add to that, the inconsistencies in her story made it hard for them to know who/where to investigate.

It's like the media just glosses over the fact that in the month after she reported the rape, the police were technically looking for a black male that didn't come close to fitting JW's description.

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

Nancy, and the other detractors, don't want to address an argument they cannot win. So, predictably they shift the focus to something other than the evidence that was collected. So, let''s one more time address that. They also proceed from the assumption that the TPD failed to perform a complete investigation. As I have said numerous times, the investigating officers' opinion of her credibility is completely discounted in all of the assertions that the TPD is either corrupt or inept or both. It is very possible, if not probable, that upon hearing "I was hit on the head" "I was drugged" "I was forced into a car" or some variation....and then "he was short and stocky" etc.... they surmised that she was making an allegation that did not hold water. Despite this, they completed a rape kit and followed procedure. After numerous attempts to contact the alleged victim, they were told via her attorney, don't call us we'll call you. Then, despite this request for limited communication, her attorney eventually lambastes TPD for their lack of follow up which was in keeping with her client's request.

OAOS

 

[alaskanseminole]

In Nancy's latest response she still believes Erica because of how quickly she reported being raped.

Here is my response:


Ms. Armour,
I think Erica went home with a guy she just met (Winston) and had sex with him...during the encounter Jameis's roommate (Casher) burst into the room hoping join in and was promptly denied by Erica (in fact, she got up and shut the door). Since the roommate couldn't join in, he decided to make a further jerk of himself and tried filming it with his phone.


Afterwards, Erica got to thinking about the encounter and the video Casher took and got both embarrassed (justifiably so) and scared that her friends and family would find out (maybe even see the video...also remember that her Attorney slipped up saying Erica didn't date "black boys"...um...oops--see Jamal Reynolds), so she concocted a story to her friend Jenna that she was drunk and hit over the head at a party to try to get ahead of it. She told this same story to Bri Henry in her home town.


Being the good friends these people are, they contacted her parents and the police...once the proverbial cat got let out of the bag, there was no turning back. She was stuck in this mess. Sadly, it's often hard to keep your story straight when it's made up. Interesting how the media NEVER discusses the clean toxicology report, the lack of physical evidence for being hit in the head or forcefully raped, or her constantly changing narrative. It's as though, we know you've told a dozen lies, but you claim rape so it MUST be true because the accused stole crab legs. (see how silly that sounds?)


Once the story broke to the media that fan favorite and Heisman hopeful Jameis Winston was the accused, the media went on the offensive and turned over every single rock they could find to vilify him and find him guilty in the court of public opinion. Now documents are slowly surfacing that this was nothing more than a money grab (SEE LINK):

Unfortunately, where Jameis went wrong was not laying low and adding fuel to the fire with his childish antics. Had Jameis never been accused of rape, no would have ever cared about him shouting a popular (yes, vulgar) internet meme, nor would they have cared about soda in ketchup cups (which, less we not forget, he still hasn't been named in...listen to the 911 call...it's available).






This post was edited on 2/23 8:45 AM by alaskanseminole

Kinsman's Attorney Wanted Insurance Policy

 

[SeaPA]

Good response Alaskan, but I think you mean Jamal Roberts (her hometown boyfriend), not Jamal Reynolds.

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

Their letter to FSU outlining the timeline solidly confirms who initiated settlement talks as long as you believe the only reason for the first call was to indicate where service of process could be made.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Originally posted by SeaPA:

Good response Alaskan, but I think you mean Jamal Roberts (her hometown boyfriend), not Jamal Reynolds.

Crap....yes...

No worries, it isn't like she's going to fact check me.

 

[Phinhead]

If Winston was white and played in the SEC, this would have so little traction. It would have never built to this.

 

[vanole35]

Originally posted by fsugrad:
Does anyone know whatever happened to Kinsman's hometown boyfriend, Jamal Roberts? Remember he was also an african american kid that was a qb and played baseball, too. He was at Kent State University the year all this went down. Now he's not on the roster anymore. Wonder if she ruined his life, too.

I do know he was on the witness list at the CoC hearing.......Winston's witness list that is.
Posted from Rivals Mobile