Please Weigh In...

[rich5203]

Why is it such a big deal if students get on campus and we see a bunch of positive test? If college football ramps up to 3 test a week, and football players by in large do what they need to do to avoid the overall population,parties,so on and so forth..... why does it matter when there are clusters of positive test?
Is it optics?

If sports players are good and staying safe why would you even think about cancelling football and allowing the players to go back to general population of students?

It would seem like the decision to cancel is more risky then anything. Your taking 100 players per school and taking away the one thing that they love, and that they will make sacrifices for to stay safe.

The freshman linebacker from UAB on the other hand was murdered a few days ago from being back at home right now instead of playing football. @CoreyClark @iraschoffel

 

[jgking83]

Because America. Go Noles!

 

[MobileAlNole]

Political and news needs clicks. Rational thinking is out the door right now, and has been. I had a friend whose boss made her take 4 days off work to test for Covid and wait on results, just for coughing once. Our local and state leaders have shown about as much IQ as well.

 

[NoleOne]

185.

 

[JC-NOLE-77]

The fear of the optics and the reality "IF" a player or coach dies during the season due to COVID19. Clearly the financial want/need is huge, but you have to understand that this could pale in comparison to the bad publicity and/or negative financial implications the risk of playing poses. Trust that they want to play, they just fear it......and are making decisions around that. Im in the camp they are safer playing and being in a "semi" bubble with the team vs. going home. But I am not making the decisions, which I am thankful for.

 

[cncnole]

It would be nice if we heard more about the effect it has on those testing positive. Number of positive tests really doesn't mean much by itself.

 

[rich5203]

What if a regular student dies? Does the university shut down?

 

[NeuroticNoleFan]

Players are in a much safer and controlled environment playing football that being in the general population of campus. There will still be the possibility of outbreaks but frequent testing should identify and control these as best as possible. No one is completely safe from COVID unless they live in a bubble. But release these kids into the population on campus and their chances of infection increase exponentially. That's my take.

 

[bungman]

185.

227 and trending down keto/ caveman diet!!!

 

[Odel4Pres]

Question for any lawyers. Can a school or workplace legitimately be held liable if an employee or student dies from Covid? I would think this is something that is prevalent enough that exposure could come from any walk of life...

We have ~180k deaths associated already, are there any lawsuits from families currently existing?

 

[rowdienole]

Why is it such a big deal if students get on campus and we see a bunch of positive test? If college football ramps up to 3 test a week, and football players by in large do what they need to do to avoid the overall population,parties,so on and so forth..... why does it matter when there are clusters of positive test?
Is it optics?

If sports players are good and staying safe why would you even think about cancelling football and allowing the players to go back to general population of students?

It would seem like the decision to cancel is more risky then anything. Your taking 100 players per school and taking away the one thing that they love, and that they will make sacrifices for to stay safe.

The freshman linebacker from UAB on the other hand was murdered a few days ago from being back at home right now instead of playing football. @CoreyClark @iraschoffel

Well, the main proposition of your argument is unlikely to be the case. The players are not going to avoid coming in contact with other students if students are on campus. The players have friends and girlfriends that aren’t other players. They’re going to go to parties, some of them. You can’t put amateur student-athletes in a bubble. I mean, even if you tried, it’s unlikely to work.

Also if cases spike, the university will either go all online or completely shut down again. In which case, how do you justify having players, who are students, there when other students aren’t? And if the campus shuts down, that would have to include football facilities.

None of that is addressing the larger point about the safety of the players and the larger community, which is more important.

 

[Odel4Pres]

Well, the main proposition of your argument is unlikely to be the case. The players are not going to avoid coming in contact with other students if students are on campus. The players have friends and girlfriends that aren’t other players. They’re going to go to parties, some of them. You can’t put amateur student-athletes in a bubble. I mean, even if you tried, it’s unlikely to work.

Also if cases spike, the university will either go all online or completely shut down again. In which case, how do you justify having players, who are students, there when other students aren’t? And if the campus shuts down, that would have to include football facilities.

None of that is addressing the larger point about the safety of the players and the larger community, which is more important.

So how do you think life should look until Coronavirus disappears?

 

[itsjustme0770]

Question for any lawyers. Can a school or workplace legitimately be held liable if an employee or student dies from Covid? I would think this is something that is prevalent enough that exposure could come from any walk of life...

We have ~180k deaths associated already, are there any lawsuits from families currently existing?

To win a tort case you have to prove, among other things, proximate cause. That's the hard part. You need to prove where you caught the virus and then you need to prove that something the university did, or did not do, is the reason you caught the virus. We've taken one case (an American Airline's worker who died). Most of the cases will prove very difficult to establish causation.

Of course, the reason that kids shouldn't be on campus has nothing to do with lawsuits and everything to do with people taking community safety seriously. But state, local and national leadership has failed miserably at protecting the public. And then you have the idiots whining about their non-existant rights not to wear a mask. But I digress.

 

[RealtyNole]

To win a tort case you have to prove, among other things, proximate cause. That's the hard part. You need to prove where you caught the virus and then you need to prove that something the university did, or did not do, is the reason you caught the virus. We've taken one case (an American Airline's worker who died). Most of the cases will prove very difficult to establish causation.

Of course, the reason that kids shouldn't be on campus has nothing to do with lawsuits and everything to do with people taking community safety seriously. But state, local and national leadership has failed miserably at protecting the public. And then you have the idiots whining about their non-existant rights not to wear a mask. But I digress.

Sheeze. You make it sound like we’re all going to die.

 

[Odel4Pres]

To win a tort case you have to prove, among other things, proximate cause. That's the hard part. You need to prove where you caught the virus and then you need to prove that something the university did, or did not do, is the reason you caught the virus. We've taken one case (an American Airline's worker who died). Most of the cases will prove very difficult to establish causation.

Of course, the reason that kids shouldn't be on campus has nothing to do with lawsuits and everything to do with people taking community safety seriously. But state, local and national leadership has failed miserably at protecting the public. And then you have the idiots whining about their non-existant rights not to wear a mask. But I digress.

thanks for the reply. Interested in your community safety statement. Do you really think that’s why schools would close down?

I’m more of a numbers kinda person. I did hear some interesting discussions back in March about the chicken pox approach where people who know they are less susceptible towards it could let it flow and achieve herd immunity. I still wonder if this should have been our approach.

I say all this not from some heartless narcissistic place, but just trying to continue good discussions on it. We all have people we care about who would be and are susceptible to it.

 

[GbrNole]

there has been no shortage of kids around campus since summer school began. admittedly, not to fall level but certainly not devoid.

 

[itsjustme0770]

Sheeze. You make it sound like we’re all going to die.

Not all. But 170,000 have to date. Its now the 3rd leading cause of death in the US after only 6 months. I guess as long as its not someone you know or care about its cool. How would we feel if there was an airliner crashing every day with 1000 people on it. That's essentially what is happening now.

 

[itsjustme0770]

thanks for the reply. Interested in your community safety statement. Do you really think that’s why schools would close down?

I’m more of a numbers kinda person. I did hear some interesting discussions back in March about the chicken pox approach where people who know they are less susceptible towards it could let it flow and achieve herd immunity. I still wonder if this should have been our approach.

I say all this not from some heartless narcissistic place, but just trying to continue good discussions on it. We all have people we care about who would be and are susceptible to it.

The numbers indicate that we are at 2% of the population infected. even if you triple that we are no where near herd immunity. And the resistance to the virus doesn't last, so you are never getting there without a vaccine.

As for schools, yeah, they should be closing. That's why you are seeing it at UNC and you are about to see it at Notre Dame. 18-20 year olds are idiots. I know, I was one.

 

[GbrNole]

Not all. But 170,000 have to date. Its now the 3rd leading cause of death in the US after only 6 months.

And therein lies the problem. The number reported includes COVID as a primary cause, COVID as being present at time of death and COVID as a probable without any diagnosis.

Relatively speaking, COVID as a primary cause of death is about one third of the death toll.

The redacted Florida medical examiners reports available to be read on USA Today website is quite informative for co-morbidities that were present for the approximate 2,000 deaths in Florida through late May.

 

[itsjustme0770]

And therein lies the problem. The number reported includes COVID as a primary cause, COVID as being present at time of death and COVID as a probable without any diagnosis.

Relatively speaking, COVID as a primary cause of death is about one third of the death toll.

The redacted Florida medical examiners reports available to be read on USA Today website is quite informative for co-morbidities that were present for the approximate 2,000 deaths in Florida through late May.

Keep telling yourself that. But even it it were 1/3, you are still talking about a plane crashing every three days. And do you know what a co-morbity is? Here's the definition:

1. the simultaneous presence of two chronic diseases or conditions in a patient.
   "the comorbidity of anxiety and depression in Parkinson's disease"

 

[GbrNole]

Keep telling yourself that. But even it it were 1/3, you are still talking about a plane crashing every three days. And do you know what a co-morbity is? Here's the definition:

1. the simultaneous presence of two chronic diseases or conditions in a patient.
   "the comorbidity of anxiety and depression in Parkinson's disease"

I don’t need to tell myself that, it is verifiable.

A person that is terminally ill and at the time of death had or was suspected to have had COVID and is recorded as a COVID death was still just as likely to die without COVID.

A person who fell off a roof and died of catastrophic injuries and had COVID or was suspected to have had COVID did not die of COVID but has been recorded as such.

A person who was shot and killed and had COVID or was suspected to have had COVID did not die of COVID but has been recorded as such.

A person who was in a car crash and died of catastrophic injuries and had COVID or was suspected to have had COVID did not die of COVID but has been recorded as such.

I do suggest you read the Florida medical examiners report on USA Today. Real data, no color to shade the facts of each case.

 

[Odel4Pres]

The numbers indicate that we are at 2% of the population infected. even if you triple that we are no where near herd immunity. And the resistance to the virus doesn't last, so you are never getting there without a vaccine.

that’s kind of my point. If we only have 2% of our population infected, and we are truly waiting for herd immunity... how long will this go on? Are we only delaying the inevitable by social distancing. I say all of that because we don’t typically see a high success rate with respiratory virus vaccines. (such as the common flu vaccine we get each year) I’m not a doctor but there are numerous infectious disease experts out there that still think that should have been our strategy all along, much the same way it is with every other respiratory virus.

 

[itsjustme0770]

that’s kind of my point. If we only have 2% of our population infected, and we are truly waiting for herd immunity... how long will this go on? Are we only delaying the inevitable by social distancing. I say all of that because we don’t typically see a high success rate with respiratory virus vaccines. (such as the common flu vaccine we get each year) I’m not a doctor but there are numerous infectious disease experts out there that still think that should have been our strategy all along, much the same way it is with every other respiratory virus.

You will never get herd immunity through natural spread. And you will have millions dead. Believe the science. If you aren't a scientist who understands epidemiology and how viruses spread, your opinion doesn't count.

 

[RealtyNole]

Not all. But 170,000 have to date. Its now the 3rd leading cause of death in the US after only 6 months. I guess as long as its not someone you know or care about its cool. How would we feel if there was an airliner crashing every day with 1000 people on it. That's essentially what is happening now.

My dad had it. He’s probably 80 pounds overweight and has heart issues. He recovered. My 80 year old grand mother has it. She’s recovering nicely. My husband had a classmate die from it. He was relatively young and strong. Shutting down our entire way of life is not the answer. It’s killing our economy. 1 in 4 FHA loans are now delinquent. 250,000 renters are looking at eviction in just Las Vegas. The numbers are pretty bad for Florida too…

People are going to die. I hate that. I truly do. I may end up being one of them. Or, my husband or kids… But. I won’t give up truly living out of fear of possibly dying. I would PERSONALLY rather die living my life to the fullest than cowering away in fear.

 

[GbrNole]

You will never get herd immunity through natural spread. And you will have millions dead. Believe the science. If you aren't a scientist who understands epidemiology and how viruses spread, your opinion doesn't count.

so you're an epidemiologist then?

 

[itsjustme0770]

My dad had it. He’s probably 80 pounds overweight and has heart issues. He recovered. My 80 year old grand mother has it. She’s recovering nicely. My husband had a classmate die from it. He was relatively young and strong. Shutting down our entire way of life is not the answer. It’s killing our economy. 1 in 4 FHA loans are now delinquent. 250,000 renters are looking at eviction in just Las Vegas. The numbers are pretty bad for Florida too…

People are going to die. I hate that. I truly do. I may end up being one of them. Or, my husband or kids… But. I won’t give up truly living out of fear of possibly dying. I would PERSONALLY rather die living my life to the fullest than cowering away in fear.

if you think you have to cower away in fear then you are doing it wrong.

i am sorry for the losses.

 

[itsjustme0770]

so you're an epidemiologist then?

i have substantial training in epidemiology, yes. But Im not giving you my opinion. Im giving you the opinion of the vast majority of degreed epidemiologists.

 

[rich5203]

Well, the main proposition of your argument is unlikely to be the case. The players are not going to avoid coming in contact with other students if students are on campus. The players have friends and girlfriends that aren’t other players. They’re going to go to parties, some of them. You can’t put amateur student-athletes in a bubble. I mean, even if you tried, it’s unlikely to work.

Also if cases spike, the university will either go all online or completely shut down again. In which case, how do you justify having players, who are students, there when other students aren’t? And if the campus shuts down, that would have to include football facilities.

None of that is addressing the larger point about the safety of the players and the larger community, which is more important.

Chapel Hill just did it

 

[GbrNole]

The numbers indicate that we are at 2% of the population infected.

in June, before the current spike in cases, the CDC was already estimating through serology testing that more than 20 million Americans had been infected with COVID knowingly or unknowingly. Recent British studies now place estimates of infected Britons at 10 to 12 times higher than the official count.

There were about 2.3 million positives in the US at the time of the CDC estimates. The similarities in the results of the comparable studies may suggest that 50 million or more Americans have now knowingly or unknowingly been infected with COVID, about 15% of the population. It's still a far cry from the numbers needed for herd immunity but it is significantly greater than 2% which is taken solely from the number of positive tests returned.

 

[GbrNole]

i have substantial training in epidemiology, yes. But Im not giving you my opinion. Im giving you the opinion of the vast majority of degreed epidemiologists.

so you're not an epidemiologist. Thanks.

 

[Odel4Pres]

in June, before the current spike in cases, the CDC was already estimating through serology testing that more than 20 million Americans had been infected with COVID knowingly or unknowingly. Recent British studies now place estimates of infected Britons at 10 to 12 times higher than the official count.

There were about 2.3 million positives in the US at the time of the CDC estimates. The similarities in the results of the comparable studies may suggest that 50 million or more Americans have now knowingly or unknowingly been infected with COVID, about 15% of the population. It's still a far cry from the numbers needed for herd immunity but it is significantly greater than 2% which is taken solely from the number of positive tests returned.

interestingly enough, there were a few statisticians claiming herd immunity could be achieved at closer to 20% of the population. I truly hated stats and won’t be able to claim to follow their logic but they weren’t hacks. I just think there has to be more than waiting on big pharma to save us, and I definitely agree with most of the opinions on this board about opening life back up.

btw, I type all of this as I currently have Coronavirus. My gf and I have been locked down for over a week and experienced all the minor and quirky symptoms and effects. I can’t wait to get back to work.

 

[rowdienole]

Chapel Hill just did it

Yeah, it could happen, but if it happens in a widespread way it will be rightfully criticized as having two standards. And it will throw into question the amateur model, which frankly I’d like to see. But it could also further jeopardize the season because some schools will go forward with athletes only on campus and other schools might not.

 

[krelden]

Not since 1968 has the nation been in such turmoil. Back then you had some rationality in the media and there were periodicals available where you could gain some perspective. Not today. Everything is politicized, mischaracterized, and misunderstood because of social media along with the avalanche of pseudo news.

 

[GbrNole]

I just think there has to be more than waiting on big pharma to save us, and I definitely agree with most of the opinions on this board about opening life back up.

the viral load of the 1918 flu was far more prevalent than COVID, no flu vaccines existed until 26 years after it had run its course - I would imagine it's more likely that nature will beat big pharma to the punch given that we are 6-8 months into COVID depending on whether you count from the first cases or the first significant prevalence. Interestingly both COVID and the 1918 flu share a similar timeline. 1918 flu began in March and it remained for about 12 months. Nationwide quarantines were in place for approximately three months from September through November 1918.

 

[bookernole]

Not since 1968 has the nation been in such turmoil. Back then you had some rationality in the media and there were periodicals available where you could gain some perspective. Not today. Everything is politicized, mischaracterized, and misunderstood because of social media along with the avalanche of pseudo news.

Yes. But you can not ignore the failure of leadership at the top.

.

 

[itsjustme0770]

Yes. But you can not ignore the failure of leadership at the top.

.

Sure he can.

 

[ChiefWB]

Yes. But you can not ignore the failure of leadership at the top.

.

The void in leadership is everywhere. The idea of leaders working together for the greater good is long gone.

 

[Odel4Pres]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.se...-protect-against-coronavirus-infection/?amp=1

interesting news out of Seattle.

 

[goldmom]

Sheeze. You make it sound like we’re all going to die.

At some point...we all will. Just not from C19.

 

[RealtyNole]

At some point...we all will. Just not from C19.

Exactly.