POLL: Manzell as a Pro

[Voxvertis]

So 'Johnny Football" has not taken Cleveland by storm, as many expected. His pre-season play has been so-so at best. And his latest highlight is flipping the middle finger on national television. The season starts in a couple weeks, and Johnnie has yet to prove anything other than being an immature little punk. So, does he come through? Will he grow into the next Bret Farve?
What is your thought?

 

[TheTruth_]

Dude will go down as one of the biggest busts in the NFL. He can't throw in the pocket. Only time he completes passes in when he escapes the pocket. Another dumb Browns move .
This post was edited on 8/19 1:39 PM by TheTruth_

 

[kdswain]

#3. Either add to the thread or find a thread that is of interest to you.
This post was edited on 8/20 9:19 AM by FSU2Times

 

[fearthespearit]

Random question on an FSU board BUT...

I don't think the pre-season games are a good indicator for the rookie who has never played pro-style prior to arriving into Cleveland.

I think he is a great talent, his footwork is elite at times and he has the same thing that makes Winston dangerous - heart and a desire to win no matter the physical cost. Not every player has this will, I feel he does.

I don't think it will be fair to judge him until year 3 or 4, his rookie pre-season results aren't the best indicator. Even still he hasn't been HORRIBLE, %50 completion + a TD is decent for a rookie learning the huddle with a team that seems to always be in some kind of disarray/ rebuilding mode.

The other thing I think we have to watch is the fact that every time he snapped the ball last night (or Hoyer for that matter) the entire defense seemed to be in the backfield. This was the issue that plagued FSU for several years in the 00s. We use to hear so much about "how we recruited such great talent at QB but got inconsistent results", when your O-LINE isn't playing even average football as a cohesive unit, you can have Manning back there and it won't really make a difference.

Just my .02

 

[CC0492]

Originally posted by kdswain:
#1. How does this relate to FSU sports?

#2. At least learn how to spell someone's name correctly before attacking them.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

I know what you're saying and it is an NFL thread, but just to be clear there are threads on Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State, Auburn vs Alabama, Florida, etc.

It's advertised as an FSU Sports Message Board, but it isn't really.

 

[Nolebra Kai]

I've never felt he would be a Top 5 or even Top 10 NFL QB. Lacks size, ability to throw consistently from the pocket and isnt a leader. Bigger Doug Flutie, IMO.

 

[TheGodOfThunder]

I'll connect it to FSU sports..
If he starts his first regular season game in week 1 against Pittsburgh, I predict Lawrence Timmons will break his kneecaps and his hand rendering him unable to make his stupid money gesture or any other gestures.

 

[LT4PLY]

Originally posted by Nolebra Kai:
I've never felt he would be a Top 5 or even Top 10 NFL QB. Lacks size, ability to throw consistently from the pocket and isnt a leader. Bigger Doug Flutie, IMO.

Flutie was an NFL pro bowler so I'd think a bigger Doug Flutie would be a top 10 QB at least.

 

[joedallastrey]

There was no choice for "biggest prick" so I didn't vote. He is going to learn that it's one thing to aggravate a college DE but another one all together to flip off a entire NFL team. They will get their shot at him. He will probably get hurt. Not smart.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Originally posted by TheTruth_:

Dude will go down as one of the biggest busts in the NFL. He can't throw in the pocket. Only time he completes passes in when he escapes the pocket. Another dumb Browns move .
This post was edited on 8/19 1:39 PM by TheTruth_

He led NCAA in completion % and QR from inside the pocket. He may not be a HOF player but he has much more than legs and jukes. The guy can flat-out throw and is a tremendous leader.

I bet he makes at least a pro bowl.

 

[Nolebra Kai]

Originally posted by LT4PLY:

Originally posted by Nolebra Kai:
I've never felt he would be a Top 5 or even Top 10 NFL QB. Lacks size, ability to throw consistently from the pocket and isnt a leader. Bigger Doug Flutie, IMO.

Flutie was an NFL pro bowler so I'd think a bigger Doug Flutie would be a top 10 QB at least.

He made one Pro Bowl at the age of 36. One season in his entire pro career he was a Top 10 QB.

 

[RoaminHomey]

NMT, I bet he doesn't. I am in the camp that he turns out to be a bust. Tremendous leader, but not a prototypical NFL QB and will get injured scrambling around and his game will never translate to pro ball IMO

 

[Nolebra Kai]

Where do you guys get this tremendous leader thing from?

When has he displayed these great leadership skills?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Gonzo313]

Originally posted by Nolebra Kai:
Where do you guys get this tremendous leader thing from?

When has he displayed these great leadership skills?

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Beat me to that comment. He didn't show leadership at A&M either, IMO. Mel Kiper analyzed Johnny very well. He said something to the fact that the average fan sees Johnny the "playmaker", while coaches and scouts see Johnny not going through progressions and not being able to find the open receiver, so he resorts to scrambling and bailing himself out. They call that playmaker in the media, but coaches and scouts know better. He is not making something out of nothing, he is making something out of something that he didn't read properly most of the time.

 

[SeaPA]

Who the hell is Mel Kiper?

 

[62Nole]

Another way to tie this to FSU........................................... I'm very happy that he did not play for us.

 

[RoaminHomey]

Kai and Gonzo, re watch the second half of the TAM-Duke bowl game. He literally willed his team to that victory, which is the leadership I was referring to.

 

[LT4PLY]

Originally posted by Nolebra Kai:

Originally posted by LT4PLY:

Originally posted by Nolebra Kai:
I've never felt he would be a Top 5 or even Top 10 NFL QB. Lacks size, ability to throw consistently from the pocket and isnt a leader. Bigger Doug Flutie, IMO.

Flutie was an NFL pro bowler so I'd think a bigger Doug Flutie would be a top 10 QB at least.

He made one Pro Bowl at the age of 36. One season in his entire pro career he was a Top 10 QB.

I know but his issue is he was well under 6 feet tall and was small in general and still managed to make the pro bowl. Manziel is about the same size as Michael Vick and to be honest it's a far better comparison in general.

 

[CC0492]

The Evolution, or maybe De-Evolution of Johnny Manziel:

Johnny Football......-->......Johnny Drama......-->......Johnny Finger......-->......Johnny Backup

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Originally posted by Nolebra Kai:
Where do you guys get this tremendous leader thing from?

When has he displayed these great leadership skills?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well his teammates universally play hard for him and when he speaks they all listen. I don't know the ins and outs of how it developed but the guy is tough as nails and people follow him, plain and simple.

Those A&M teams had several reasons to quit on several occasions and they didn't, and it wasn't Kevin Sumlin alone making that happen. That doesn't happen without team leadership.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Originally posted by RoaminHomey:
NMT, I bet he doesn't. I am in the camp that he turns out to be a bust. Tremendous leader, but not a prototypical NFL QB and will get injured scrambling around and his game will never translate to pro ball IMO

It's certainly possible he gets hurt. I totally disagree with the "his game won't translate" concept...and you're surely not the only one saying it. His game evolved tremendously from year 1 to year 2. Note the stats from WITHIN the pocket were better than Winston. He also managed to avoid clean shots in his scrambling.

The bottom line is that the ball gets where it needs to be and when it needs to be there. Add that to the fact that he continues to learn and progress at a very fast rate and I think he'll excel.

FTR I'm not a Johnny jock-sniffer. I couldn't stand him for most of 2012 and then I started watching him actually play football and I had to swallow my distaste and realize he has some seriously special qualities.

EDIT: I think he's the worst backup QB to have in the league. Worse than Tebow, you do not want that guy on your roster if he's not starting. That's the biggest drawback to having him if you're a Cleveland fan.
This post was edited on 8/20 9:53 PM by NoleMoreTears

 

[kooterridesagain]

I don't rare him very high. Ok arm,He is a one read Qb until things break down, not accurate inside the hash marks, and he looks like a 4.8 runner in the nfl so that's not the asset it was in college. Too soon to tell but I can see why most teams didn't have a first rd grade on him, and clearly he's immature off the field too.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com[/URL]

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Originally posted by kooterridesagain:
not accurate inside the hash marks, and he looks like a 4.8 runner in the nfl so that's not the asset it was in college.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Did you miss the part where he was the nation's best QB inside the pocket? Better than Winston or Mariota.

He never out-ran guys in college either, but he was able to juke them and buy time for things to happen.

It doesn't make him a guaranteed superstar but the reasons you cite don't have any data to back them up.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Nolemore,
I wasn't referring to his feet inside pocket or where he threw from, but meant the Wrs in the middle of the field on routes between hashes. Basically hitting the routes that aren't on the outside through traffic is my concern which is what makes great nfl passers IMHO. You see three games with Browns, it's early, and he's often throwing them in the dirt or throwing behind the crossing routes. As many nfl scouts keeps saying he doesn't anticipate these routes and is a thrower not a passer. Outside he's better delivering but there's less traffic so he should be. We shall see I'll certainly be watching more Browns this year than normal maybe he'll figure it out.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

I see - my bad for the poor assumption. I apologize. I think you make a great point.

A lot of this is of course luck but maybe more important is how receptive he is to coaching. I know he worked with Whitfield but the Cleveland coaches have their work cut out for them on that front.