The Pope

[NDallasRuss]

I'm honestly not trying to cause an argument, but I don't understand why our government goes to such great lengths to accommodate him and kiss his papal rear to the extent that they do.

Apparently 22% of the country is Catholic, which means that 78% of the country is not Catholic. Yet, the Pope is here and we're shutting down most of DC so that he can have a parade, meet with the President, speak to Congress, etc, etc, etc.

Why does he meet with Congress? What business could he possibly have with them? He's not (supposed to be) a politician. He's not the head of any country (not really counting Vatican City).

And if there's supposed to be some sort of separation between church and state (which, practically, there isn't), then why would the government expend this much effort on someone whose influence is limited to moral issues and a chance at the afterlife?

Not only that, but we're also paying for some of the costs associated with the visit - especially the related security costs. If he wants to visit the US and go around talking to different Catholic/religious groups, then more power to him, but why is it a national/federal event to have the Pope visit? Why do we need to shut down most of the streets in DC and have tens of thousands of people work from home to avoid coming into the District, so that he can come and be paraded around for a couple of days?

I'm certainly not questioning what anyone believes in, or who they hold to be important. My question is more about visiting government official, versus some other important person or celebrity that's visiting. To some extent, my questions are the same about when the Dalai Lama visits, although he's not treated quite this extravagantly when he visits.

 

[Urban Cryer]

Well.....he's the leader of the largest religion in the world and arguably the most powerful religious figure in the world, so he's got some influence. Second, he is a head of state, the Holy Sea is a nation.

 

[Urban Cryer]

Oh, and the Dalai Lama is a "head of state in exile" however due to the sensitivities with China we don't give him the full honors. I don't like it either, but we go to great lengths not to piss our bankers off.

 

[DanC78]

I agree with you 100%...the attention he is getting seeem's like a little much.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Well.....he's the leader of the largest religion in the world and arguably the most powerful religious figure in the world, so he's got some influence. Second, he is a head of state, the Holy Sea is a nation.

The "Holy Sea"? I'm not even sure what that is.

I understand that he's the leader of a major religion. Is Catholicism really the world's largest religion though? Is it larger than Islam and Hinduism? I don't think that it is, but maybe it is.

Even though, most of his beliefs go against the laws of the US, so I don't see why the government would be so invested in cow-towing to him. Let all the Catholic universities and churches host him, but I don't see why he's given free run of DC for a couple of days.

It's possible that I'm missing something, but if the President of China, or the Prime Minister of India (both also leaders of over a billion people), they wouldn't receive the same level of fanfare and grandeur, and also wouldn't be invited to address Congress.

 

[Urban Cryer]

The "Holy Sea"? I'm not even sure what that is.

I understand that he's the leader of a major religion. Is Catholicism really the world's largest religion though? Is it larger than Islam and Hinduism? I don't think that it is, but maybe it is.

Even though, most of his beliefs go against the laws of the US, so I don't see why the government would be so invested in cow-towing to him. Let all the Catholic universities and churches host him, but I don't see why he's given free run of DC for a couple of days.

It's possible that I'm missing something, but if the President of China, or the Prime Minister of India (both also leaders of over a billion people), they wouldn't receive the same level of fanfare and grandeur, and also wouldn't be invited to address Congress.

Sorry.....Holy "See". Catholicism is huge, largest block of Christianity. Islam is definitely gaining. The Pope is very popular in South America and Africa, especially this Pope. Any president would host the Pope in the same manor, he gets this treatment wherever he travels to. Security wise, keep in mind whenever there is a threat and a vulnerability you have a problem, the last Pope that was very outspoken like this one was almost killed. I'd trust the secret service in this case. And why does the US taxpayer pay for it? Well......how would it look if arguably one of the most popular men in the world, especially in the third world was killed in the US?

I don't see how this is a separation of church and state issue.....

 

[seminole97]

I admire the Pope's balls.

 

[dmm5157]

My mom is a crazy church lady. Goes to church every day, watches EWTN (Eternal World Television Network. Catholic channel). If she's not eating or working, she's doing something related to the church.

When I call her on my lunch break yesterday, she is going on and on about how amazing it was that the Pope was in the US. My sis lives in NYC and my mom is freaking out that my sister "is going to get to see him", when in reality my sister has no desire to see him at all. She was gushing like I imagine little girls did over the Beatles back in their early days.

Love my mom, but she's nuts.

 

[RTM58]

1.1 billion followers, immigration, and climate change.


It is nice to see all those pro-choice Democrats at the White House celebrating the Pope.

 

[Urban Cryer]

This Pope is all about income redistribution and crap like that which i am most certainly not a fan of, but one thing I have to give him credit for is that he walks the walk, none of our politicians do.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Any president would host the Pope in the same manor, he gets this treatment wherever he travels to.

I certainly didn't intend to imply that the treatment is any different because of this President, versus any other. I agree that the reception would be the same - I just don't really see why.

As for the church/state comment - to me it's that you have the Church - in an official capacity - formally addressing the State, in a visit at least partially funded by the State. Just seems like a lot of crossover to me.

 

[NDallasRuss]

This Pope is all about income redistribution and crap like that which i am most certainly not a fan of, but one thing I have to give him credit for is that he walks the walk, none of our politicians do.

A big difference is that he doesn't have to worry about being re-elected.

 

[Nole Lou]

Because if the US didn't accommodate him, it would be a nightmare of epic proportions logistically. If he just "showed up"? And the millions of people that want to see him just headed off to see him with no logistical planning or accommodation? It would be a hundred times worse than Woodstock.

You could ban him from our shores I guess because he's so popular and it might disrupt someone's routine. I'm sure that would go over well with American Catholics, as well as do great things for the USA's image in the developing world.

 

[YogiNole]

This Pope sounds like a cool dude. I wouldn't mind grabbing beer/wine with him. However I agree with @NDallasRuss about the whole parade and shutting down streets for him. The Catholic Church could just as easily rent out a huge venue or stadium and hold it indoors not inconveniencing the rest of us, not to mention the security nightmares of the Pope rolling around the streets in an open vehicle

 

[LesClaypool]

Not catholic but I like this pope a lot.

The fanfare doesn't bother me at all, but then again he's not shutting down my city either, so maybe it's easy to be so laissez fare (sp?) about it.

 

[goldmom]

25% +/- of us are Catholic- largest single Christian denomination in the U.S.

Majority of the SCOTUS = Catholic
Slight advantage in Congress

That numbers game aside many of us are NOT fans of this Pope who comes from heavily Communist leaning traditions and priests in South America.
Stick to Catholic teachings Padre, not political preaching.

 

[RTM58]

They aren't accommodating him, they accommodating the masses.

and this....
Pope Francis said in his opening remarks to the United States on the White House lawn that climate change is an urgent matter that "can no longer be left to a future generation."
Francis waded into that hot-button political issue after President Barack Obama and a crowd of thousands welcomed him Wednesday morning.
The pope praised Obama for focusing on the environment and the need to cut air pollution, calling it "encouraging."


Live from the White House

 

[goldmom]

So he's also a useful tool now.

He is a scientific expert? NO. This is what I do not buy into.

 

[Spearchucker87]

25% +/- of us are Catholic- largest single Christian denomination in the U.S....

25% of Christians are catholic? (or 25% of US is catholic?)

 

[LesClaypool]

He has a masters degree in Chemistry.

He IS a scientific expert, of sorts.

 

[LesClaypool]

Wiki says 20% of US Christians are Catholic.

 

[Spearchucker87]

He has a masters degree in Chemistry.

He IS a scientific expert, of sorts.

Probably not relying on his own research. I think the Vatican has pretty good scientists as consultants on a variety of matters, having led to their acknowledgement of the big bang, a 13.7 billion year old universe, and the evolution of life on earth.

 

[KelloggNole]

It is in his capacity as Head of State of the Holy See that Pope Francis will address a Joint Session of Congress, just as Shinzo Abe, Mohammad Ashraf Ghani, Binyamin Netanyahu (twice), Petro Poroshenko, Park Geun Hye, Lee Myung-bak, Julia Gillard, Felipe Calderón Hinojosa, Dr. Angela Merkel, Gordon Brown, Bertie Ahern, Nicolas Sarkozy, King Abdullah II Bin Al Hussein, Dr. Nouri Al-Maliki, Vaira Vike-Freiberga, Ehud Olmert, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Silvio Berlusconi, Manmohan Singh, Viktor Yushchenko, Ayad Allawi, Hamid Karzai, Jose Maria Aznar, Tony Blair, John Howard, Vicente Fox, and Atal Bihari Vajpayee all have since the year 2000. Basically, it's a standard part of any foreign head of state visit. I would expect the address to touch on the world's need to do more in relation to environmental change and the refugee crisis. I doubt it will be a deep theological lecture.

In terms of size, Sunnis make up somewhere between 75-90% of all Mulsims. That could make it the same size or larger as the Roman Catholic Church. A major difference though is that there is no hierarchy in Islam, so there is no leader akin to the Pope.

It's in this religious capacity as the leader of 1.1 billion Roman Catholics world-wide and 69.4 million in the US that he will have a parade. It will also be in the religious capacity that he canonizes Junipero Serra, a missionary who brought Catholicism to California. This will be the first Saint to be canonized on US soil. Finally, he will attend the Worldwide Meeting of Families in Philadelphia.

 

[RTM58]

Wiki says 20% of US Christians are Catholic.

The Catholic Church in the United States is part of the worldwide Catholic Church. With 69.4 million members, it is the largest religious body in the United States, comprising 22% of the population.

 

[Spearchucker87]

Are these numbers right? It was said earlier that something like 22% of US Christians are catholics. Now I see that 69 million people in the US are catholics. If both numbers are true, we have close to 300 million Christians in the US?

I could conceive that maybe 300 million believe in God in some way or another, but Christian?

 

[goldmom]

25% of Christians are catholic? (or 25% of US is catholic?)

Nearly one in four U.S. Residents are Catholic- apx 70 million

 

[goldmom]

Probably not relying on his own research. I think the Vatican has pretty good scientists as consultants on a variety of matters, having led to their acknowledgement of the big bang, a 13.7 billion year old universe, and the evolution of life on earth.

. LOL...good one

 

[Spearchucker87]

Nearly one in four U.S. Residents are Catholic- apx 80 million.

I'm certainly in no position to give a number of my own......but these numbers are shocking me. Places like this board have me believing the country is just a big heathen mess......

 

[LesClaypool]

The Catholic Church in the United States is part of the worldwide Catholic Church. With 69.4 million members, it is the largest religious body in the United States, comprising 22% of the population.

my bad. Apparently I didnt read Wiki properly.

 

[Nole Lou]

That numbers game aside many of us are NOT fans of this Pope who comes from heavily Communist leaning traditions and priests in South America.
Stick to Catholic teachings Padre, not political preaching.

Yep Padre, take your marching orders from the pro-choice "Catholic".

 

[SoddyNole]

So he's also a useful tool now.

He is a scientific expert? NO. This is what I do not buy into.

Do you realize the money to be made on this subject? People hate tithing as much as taxes. The masses will gladly hand over their wallets to save the planet.

 

[KelloggNole]

In fairness, the Roman Catholic Church has the least stringent criteria for counting it's membership. If you were baptized Catholic, but haven't been back since, you're still Catholic. If you're going to a Baptist Church now, you're probably being double counted. There aren't 69.4M people sitting in pews for Sunday Mass. It's commonly thought that the second largest denomination in America is "non-practicing Catholics".

 

[FSUATT]

I'm honestly not trying to cause an argument, but I don't understand why our government goes to such great lengths to accommodate him and kiss his papal rear to the extent that they do.

Apparently 22% of the country is Catholic, which means that 78% of the country is not Catholic. Yet, the Pope is here and we're shutting down most of DC so that he can have a parade, meet with the President, speak to Congress, etc, etc, etc.

Why does he meet with Congress? What business could he possibly have with them? He's not (supposed to be) a politician. He's not the head of any country (not really counting Vatican City).

And if there's supposed to be some sort of separation between church and state (which, practically, there isn't), then why would the government expend this much effort on someone whose influence is limited to moral issues and a chance at the afterlife?

Not only that, but we're also paying for some of the costs associated with the visit - especially the related security costs. If he wants to visit the US and go around talking to different Catholic/religious groups, then more power to him, but why is it a national/federal event to have the Pope visit? Why do we need to shut down most of the streets in DC and have tens of thousands of people work from home to avoid coming into the District, so that he can come and be paraded around for a couple of days?

I'm certainly not questioning what anyone believes in, or who they hold to be important. My question is more about visiting government official, versus some other important person or celebrity that's visiting. To some extent, my questions are the same about when the Dalai Lama visits, although he's not treated quite this extravagantly when he visits.

I am not catholic, but I do like this Pope. He is probably the most Christ-like Pope the Catholic church has had in a long time, and that scares some people, including some Catholics. I believe the reason he is speaking to Congress is because he was invited to speak. I personally have no problems with his visit, or the resources that are being used while he is here. I just hope that nothing happens to him during his visit.

 

[osceola74]

So he's also a useful tool now.

He is a scientific expert? NO. This is what I do not buy into.

I'm Catholic and don't like this Pope for what Gold Mom mentioned. In addition, those who always want to bring up separation of church and state will look the other way when the church agrees with them. I'm like the Cubans in Miami, Catholic without a Pope.

 

[KelloggNole]

25% +/- of us are Catholic- largest single Christian denomination in the U.S.

Majority of the SCOTUS = Catholic
Slight advantage in Congress

That numbers game aside many of us are NOT fans of this Pope who comes from heavily Communist leaning traditions and priests in South America.
Stick to Catholic teachings Padre, not political preaching.

What has he said that is not rooted in Catholic theology?

 

[Fijimn]

Too man damn Protestants on this board...don't y'all have snakes to go talk to while the Holy See is here to bless us. You and your hard work and pre-destination beliefs.


(I obviously have my tongue in my cheek

 

[Spearchucker87]

What has he said that is not rooted in Catholic theology?

I detect that it's a question of emphasis and not theology. Many christians would like to help the poor. But do you help them by spreading capitalism and traditional American pathways to prosperity. Or do you help them by redistributing wealth, taking in refugees from Syria, etc.? If the pope implies that the US should help the world by contributing more money to the UN, is that the best way to help or could he be wrong?

 

[Nole Lou]

What has he said that is not rooted in Catholic theology?

Well, there's the generally politically lefty stuff that works some folks into a lather, who like their popes the way they like their congressmen. It doesn't always jibe with me politically, but that stuff doesn't bother me. It's virtually impossible for a Catholic to fall along party lines as they are delineated in the United States. Trying to "vote Catholic" is hard, if not impossible...neither party comes anywhere near checking all the boxes. So I don't expect the Pope to fall in line as a Republican (or Democrat), and wouldn't want him to.

I do have some significant concerns about his liberalism on dogmatic Catholic teaching however. There are things he says and does that I do not care for and make me worried about what he might try to change in terms of Catholic teachings on faith and morals.

On the other hand...I don't think he's wrong to try to bring the focus back on winning souls for Christ and bringing people to the Church, and/or back to the Church. And in that prism, some of the things he's done that scare traditional-minded Catholics like myself, make a lot of sense.

Take the new rules on streamlining annulment. Many read that as the first step toward "Catholic divorce", or allowing divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Communion. That is reason for concern if you are an orthodox believer in Catholic teaching.

On the other hand...it's a great thing. There are likely millions of Catholics who are separated from the sacraments right now because they haven't been able to get an invalid marriage annulled do to the length, invasiveness, inconvenience and/or cost. Even a clearly invalid marriage. It's a problem in the United States and everywhere, but it can be a crisis in parts of the world. Can you imagine a 14 year old girl in Africa that is abducted and "married" by some warlord, and finally extricates herself 10 years later? And to get that "marriage" annulled takes 2-3 years, travelling thousands of miles, and half a year's salary? Absurd.

So we'll see. There is well-founded fear that he is courting the adoration of people in media and governments who are atheists (avowedly or openly) at the expense of the true faith. If that's true, it's going to be a hellish ride for Catholics.

Or, he'll truly be able open some doors to Catholics around the world without compromising fundamental beliefs. If that's the case, his media honeymoon won't last forever. He's everyone's darling now because people think archaic Catholic teaching will finally be broken. But if we don't have married lesbian priests performing sanctified abortions within 24 months, a lot of that secular lovefest is going to turn on him.

We'll see how it goes. JPII managed to walk that line for decades and left a very complex legacy, angering the right and the left, and beloved by the people. I'm hoping Francis manages something similar.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Some of the opinions being voiced in this thread may lead to it being locked up. This is a tricky one with several combining religion and politics which is outside the premise of the OP. Tread very carefully if you want this topic to stay.

 

[BelemNole]

My dad doesn't like him. I find this ridiculous. The reasons my dad doesn't like him are all about American politics and nothing about thinking about his job as pope. They guy is suppose to be the ultimate catholic/christian right? Of course he should care about the poor, not care about money, not judge people, be all about forgiveness, love your fellow man, want to save the planet, etc, etc, etc.