The real trade war with China has begun

[surfnole]

Thoughts?

I say good. China has been spying on the US and US companies, stealing technology from the US, blocking US businesses doing business in China for decades while they built their own companies (Google/Baidu, Facebook/Wechat, Amazon/Alibaba)....

The real trade war with China has begun

A new embargo on advanced semiconductor sales is the most aggressive move yet by any US president against China.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Bill From Tampa]

The Inflation Reduction Act, for instance, incudes high domestic content requirement for electric vehicles in order to qualify for federal subsidies. It also includes powerful incentives for the domestic development of critical minerals such as lithium, cobalt and nickel.


Do we have those resources in this country? From what I have previously read, China controls an estimated 80% of those minerals.

 

[goldmom]

The Inflation Reduction Act, for instance, incudes high domestic content requirement for electric vehicles in order to qualify for federal subsidies. It also includes powerful incentives for the domestic development of critical minerals such as lithium, cobalt and nickel.


Do we have those resources in this country? From what I have previously read, China controls an estimated 80% of those minerals.

Those materials (many of them) can be sourced here but environmental limitations have made it easier to just get them from China who has no such limits.

Just start looking at labels on everything and you’ll see Made In China on about 75% of everything we buy from seasonal decor to clothing.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Good point about the environmental limitations.

 

[surfnole]

I was at lunch today with a group and one guy started going off about how EVs had a larger carbon footprint than gasoline powered cars. This was due to all the environmental damage due to mining those minerals etc and the cost of energy and waste and retired batteries disposal etc.

I've read such articles and I didn't really want to discuss it with him nor do I want to discuss the environmental impact here.

But back to china. The same guy reminded me of how China took over a bunch of islands off the coast that other nations claim as well. And now they have built massive military bases and a defensive perimeter. Can't say I blame them. The USA would do the same thing to any Island off their shore. We did it with hawaii. Might makes right

 

[surfnole]

The fate of the world economy may depend on what happens to a company most Americans have never heard of​

The fate of the world economy may depend on what happens to a company most Americans have never heard of

The Taiwanese firm TSMC is the world's largest chipmaker. But if tensions boil over with China, it could have trillions of dollars of economic costs.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[fsufool]

I was at lunch today with a group and one guy started going off about how EVs had a larger carbon footprint than gasoline powered cars. This was due to all the environmental damage due to mining those minerals etc and the cost of energy and waste and retired batteries disposal etc.

I've read such articles and I didn't really want to discuss it with him nor do I want to discuss the environmental impact here.

But back to china. The same guy reminded me of how China took over a bunch of islands off the coast that other nations claim as well. And now they have built massive military bases and a defensive perimeter. Can't say I blame them. The USA would do the same thing to any Island off their shore. We did it with hawaii. Might makes right

China's done. Demographically they can't pull out of their spiral, so they will always be an export based economy that is dependent on us and a few other countries. We are in the process of moving manufacturing back. Chips; they only manufacture the lowest level and don't have the capability to do the medium level or high level chips. They know now any movement on Taiwan (who manufactures high level chips) will be of no use as we would just stop buying anything from them and isolate them. They are also dependent on the middle east (and Russia) for oil. Finally, their real estate values are cratering rippling throughout the economy and causing dissent. Their Navy has no ability to project even to Japan. Just a matter of time..........

 

[F4Gary]

I'm hearing that manufacturing has gotten more expensive in China and some will be moving back to either the US or Mexico.

 

[surfnole]

China's done. Demographically they can't pull out of their spiral, so they will always be an export based economy that is dependent on us and a few other countries. We are in the process of moving manufacturing back. Chips; they only manufacture the lowest level and don't have the capability to do the medium level or high level chips. They know now any movement on Taiwan (who manufactures high level chips) will be of no use as we would just stop buying anything from them and isolate them. They are also dependent on the middle east (and Russia) for oil. Finally, their real estate values are cratering rippling throughout the economy and causing dissent. Their Navy has no ability to project even to Japan. Just a matter of time..........

What do you mean democratically they can't pull out of their spiral? It's a nation of over a billion people. Even if they don't have a replacement rate of population to keep their population from the declining they'll continue to have a huge population.

We can't stop buying chips from taiwan. As the article state it will take many many years to build the foundries to even make those chips.

They don't need a Navy to project.

Of course the USA funded those foundries in Taiwan and all the US companies wanted cheap chips. And now they're going to pay the price. A capitalist is somebody who will sell you the rope to hang them with.

Fortunately it's becoming economically less profitable to manufacture overseas due to supply chain constraints much of which were caused by the China premiers insane zero covid policy lockdowns

 

[seminole97]

But back to china. The same guy reminded me of how China took over a bunch of islands off the coast that other nations claim as well. And now they have built massive military bases and a defensive perimeter. Can't say I blame them. The USA would do the same thing to any Island off their shore. We did it with hawaii. Might makes right

There are several island chains that China contests ownership over with multiple neighbors. In addition to that they have dredged and built islands and installed runways and air defenses on them.
Cruise missile magnets when the balloon goes up.

 

[GeddyLee09]

What do you mean democratically they can't pull out of their spiral? It's a nation of over a billion people. Even if they don't have a replacement rate of population to keep their population from the declining they'll continue to have a huge population.

We can't stop buying chips from taiwan. As the article state it will take many many years to build the foundries to even make those chips.

They don't need a Navy to project.

Of course the USA funded those foundries in Taiwan and all the US companies wanted cheap chips. And now they're going to pay the price. A capitalist is somebody who will sell you the rope to hang them with.

Fortunately it's becoming economically less profitable to manufacture overseas due to supply chain constraints much of which were caused by the China premiers insane zero covid policy lockdowns

If they want to have anything besides a defensive posture they do need a Navy that can project power. Imagine the out come of WW2 if the US couldn't project Naval and Air forces across the Pacific. Had we deployed our ships prior to Pearl Harbor as the intel suggested things would have been much different.

 

[GeddyLee09]

There are several island chains that China contests ownership over with multiple neighbors. In addition to that they have dredged and built islands and installed runways and air defenses on them.
Cruise missile magnets when the balloon goes up.

The concern needs to be with the bases China is building in Africa and central Asia. China doesn't have a global reach capability like the US but bases closer to Europe extends their reach.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Of concern also is the parts of the Panama Canal that China owns. China worked its way into deals with Panama and now they have significant control over the canal. That is potentially not good for the US.