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To the Critics of the LIV tour

I won’t watch LIV. I want to watch the best - all the best - competing under one umbrella.

If LIV succeeds, who’s next to split up - the NFL? MLB?
 
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PGA tour changes

Please raise your hand if you think these changes would have occurred had the LIV tour and their changes
not been around.
There will be a lot of PGA tour players who will be saying a silent thank you to the LIV Tour!
What does that have to do with selling your soul to authoritarian dictators for blood money. The Saudis are murderers and terrorists or state sponsors of terrorists.
 
Without a doubt these moves are in response to LIV. I think they may be going too far with the elevated events personally as they are completely cannibalizing the lesser events. The Valspar in Tampa area has never been a premier event but last year they had 20 or so of the top 50 in the world. This year it’s probably closer to 8. I think there should be the 4 majors, TPC, 3 Fed Ex playoff events, and then 4 other “elevated” events with no cuts and smaller fields. That still guarantees 12 events per year basically all the best players will be in. Or rotate the elevated events so each tournament at least guarantees itself an elite field every few years.
 
Please raise your hand if this benefits you in any way?
 
Add Jack Nicklaus as a very vocal critic of the LIV tour. Somebody just poked the Golden Bear!
 
What does that have to do with selling your soul to authoritarian dictators for blood money. The Saudis are murderers and terrorists or state sponsors of terrorists.
This world is not Black and White. It's all different colors of grey!
Saudi Arabia is one of our oldest trade partners in the mideast.
They continue to be so with trade going both ways.
They certainly have radical elements.
If countries like us and other 1st world countries shut them out, you are simply incubating a wealthy regime that would look and act like Iran!
Compared to China, with whom we have much more trade, Saudi Arabia is a small mosquito.
Unlike SA, China has public aims to take over the world's economy and is constantly engaged in espionage efforts aimed at us.
So no, I'm not going apoplectic over LIV funding a golf tour.
I'm fine with you drawing a moral line in the sand.
I have a bigger problem with the PGA not making some of the changes earlier that they ONLY MADE IN RESPONSE TO LIV!
Does that not bug you?
And I'll tell you what else. It's total garbage that these players earn no WGR points except as allowed by the punitive PGA.

This line that they are trying to whitewash their reputation, doesn't pass muster, b/c best I can tell, it's not working. Meanwhile they are putting tons of money in Americans (and others) pockets. As has been mentioned they are literally responsible for the positive changes on the PGA tour.
 
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So are the LIV critics going to quit watching golf altogether?
 
So are the LIV critics going to quit watching golf altogether?

It]s a temptation. I wasn't happy with LIV, but I believe people have the right to make a living the best way they want to, and for those invited to play in it, it was pretty much a no-brainer. But the phoniness of PGA overlords is hard to swallow, so yeah, I'm prolly thru watching and caring about golf.
 
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I think many of the PGA tour players are going to have a huge problem with this.
They were lied to by the PGA! They weren't included in any of these negotiations or even made aware of them.
Phil Mickelsen is apparently hated by many in the PGA, but he was waaaaay more right about the shortcomings of the PGA than were his detractors.
I'd love to hear from Rory, Jack, Tiger and other big time PGA backers.
 
Still reading up on the details, but Monahan is a hypocrite and a coward.

A hypocrite for doing a complete 180 from his statement one year ago almost to the day to Jim Nance when he said has any PGA player had to apologize for playing on that tour. And a coward for not even telling the membership of the deal before he went on CNBC and announced it.

An interesting theory put out there by Jim Gray was that the PGA was in a position of financial weakness as it pertained to the litigation. With all the money the Saudis have such deep pockets they could afford to play the long game and wait out the PGA. Add to that with both entities being very secretive, in litigation there would be the discovery process that could bring out things the two would not like made public. Especially the Saudis who do not have a system of juris prudence like the US does.
 
OK. This is long but it's not a simple subject. Like everything else in this country, golf has been crapped upon by politics. But at the core there's 2 things to blame. 1.) The politics of NBC and (2) Jay Monahan. The initial blame is all on the guy who caused all this sh*t storm in the first place, Jay Monahan. Both Mickelson and Greg Norman were right. Who'd of thunk it ? He didn't do a 180 just because he changed his mind. It's because he didn't have a choice. Here’s a point that no one seems to want to face. The PGA’s main sponsor is FedEx. 30% of FedEx is owned by the Saudi’s. If LIV WANTED TO BANKRUPT/ CRIPPLE the PGA tour, they would just buy another 21% of FEDEX. Let Monahan know that when their contract runs out, FEDEX is moving their sponsorship to LIV because LIV's players bring the crowds around the world. ( Actually they really don't need a reason.)
I would imagine that Monahan's luncheon/golf meetings were not quite as friendly as is being advertised.
I would also imagine that Monahan had to know that Rory and Co. would be pretty pissed. Not to mention the legal bills that had to stacking up. In short, I think the PGA is bleeding money right now. All these events that are not premier events have had lackluster crowds. I know Valspar was way down. The Honda Classic is going to be something else. Honda said bye-bye. Jack is in his 80's. At his age, he doesn't wield the big sword like he used to. Doral is now in Mexico because they don't like Trump. There's a bunch to not like about the PGA that is completely irrelevant of LIV and the Saudi's. I completely agree with @Tom81 's post above. If the moron listened to Mickelson 3 years++ ago, none of this would have happened.
As @Bill From Tampa said, Monahan has spinal issues. Why CNBC ? They are the liberal spin doctors. But 🤣it didn't work. I realize that many on here are liberals. That's fine. I, unlike many on the liberal side, understand and many times applaud your desire to improve everyone's surroundings. Both the environment and socially. But I am someone that is also in business in the real world. You cannot improve society by handing people money. They need to earn it. You cannot make us all better off environmentally if you improve air quality in California while destroying billions of gallons of water in India, the Ukraine and Asia. There is a reason there is such opposition to mining for Lithium in New Mexico and Nevada. Earth is the big blue marble because of water. Most people in business use due diligence before making investments into products or companies. We dig deep. If we don't profit (win), we have responses. ( Sh*t, F-bombs come to mind.) But we normally don't blame others for results. We are planners. Please understand that buying an electric car isn't going to change the PGA Tour any more that it's going to improve the environment. ( Yes, there was a sports writer from Seattle that said buy an EV to hurt the Saudi's. Moron alert !) Please understand that there is much more to the Middle East than just Saudi Arabia. And the Saudi's have many, many more assets than just oil. In fact, if you Google " America's longest ally in the Middle East.", you get Saudi Arabia. Since 1946. We live in a complex world. We need golf announcers that do golf not politics. The Golf Channel has spewed for 2 years now how horrible The Saudi's are. From a middle of the road to conservative political standpoint, Brandel Chamblee and Rich Lerner are almost intolerable to watch/listen to. Yet in reality, look at all the major crimes in LA, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta EVERY SINGLE DAY. Look at the corruption in Wasington DC, the FBI and the CIA. Look at at Hunter's lap top. There's plenty of horsesh*t to look in the damned mirror over !
You want to fix golf ? You want to make it an honest game again ? Get the politics OUT !

Ken...
 
OK. This is long but it's not a simple subject. Like everything else in this country, golf has been crapped upon by politics. But at the core there's 2 things to blame. 1.) The politics of NBC and (2) Jay Monahan. The initial blame is all on the guy who caused all this sh*t storm in the first place, Jay Monahan. Both Mickelson and Greg Norman were right. Who'd of thunk it ? He didn't do a 180 just because he changed his mind. It's because he didn't have a choice. Here’s a point that no one seems to want to face. The PGA’s main sponsor is FedEx. 30% of FedEx is owned by the Saudi’s. If LIV WANTED TO BANKRUPT/ CRIPPLE the PGA tour, they would just buy another 21% of FEDEX. Let Monahan know that when their contract runs out, FEDEX is moving their sponsorship to LIV because LIV's players bring the crowds around the world. ( Actually they really don't need a reason.)
I would imagine that Monahan's luncheon/golf meetings were not quite as friendly as is being advertised.
I would also imagine that Monahan had to know that Rory and Co. would be pretty pissed. Not to mention the legal bills that had to stacking up. In short, I think the PGA is bleeding money right now. All these events that are not premier events have had lackluster crowds. I know Valspar was way down. The Honda Classic is going to be something else. Honda said bye-bye. Jack is in his 80's. At his age, he doesn't wield the big sword like he used to. Doral is now in Mexico because they don't like Trump. There's a bunch to not like about the PGA that is completely irrelevant of LIV and the Saudi's. I completely agree with @Tom81 's post above. If the moron listened to Mickelson 3 years++ ago, none of this would have happened.
As @Bill From Tampa said, Monahan has spinal issues. Why CNBC ? They are the liberal spin doctors. But 🤣it didn't work. I realize that many on here are liberals. That's fine. I, unlike many on the liberal side, understand and many times applaud your desire to improve everyone's surroundings. Both the environment and socially. But I am someone that is also in business in the real world. You cannot improve society by handing people money. They need to earn it. You cannot make us all better off environmentally if you improve air quality in California while destroying billions of gallons of water in India, the Ukraine and Asia. There is a reason there is such opposition to mining for Lithium in New Mexico and Nevada. Earth is the big blue marble because of water. Most people in business use due diligence before making investments into products or companies. We dig deep. If we don't profit (win), we have responses. ( Sh*t, F-bombs come to mind.) But we normally don't blame others for results. We are planners. Please understand that buying an electric car isn't going to change the PGA Tour any more that it's going to improve the environment. ( Yes, there was a sports writer from Seattle that said buy an EV to hurt the Saudi's. Moron alert !) Please understand that there is much more to the Middle East than just Saudi Arabia. And the Saudi's have many, many more assets than just oil. In fact, if you Google " America's longest ally in the Middle East.", you get Saudi Arabia. Since 1946. We live in a complex world. We need golf announcers that do golf not politics. The Golf Channel has spewed for 2 years now how horrible The Saudi's are. From a middle of the road to conservative political standpoint, Brandel Chamblee and Rich Lerner are almost intolerable to watch/listen to. Yet in reality, look at all the major crimes in LA, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta EVERY SINGLE DAY. Look at the corruption in Wasington DC, the FBI and the CIA. Look at at Hunter's lap top. There's plenty of horsesh*t to look in the damned mirror over !
You want to fix golf ? You want to make it an honest game again ? Get the politics OUT !

Ken...

Whew, that is quite the word salad, Ken, you hit many talking points.

Two things
1. Doral did not lose the tournament because people didn't like Trump, it was because no one would match Grupo Salinas 7 year offer after Cadillac left. Many wealthy people were trying very hard to get a sponsor to match and could not, that move like the LIV move, was all about money.

Out of curiosity,
2.. Where are you getting the Saudis on 30% of FedEx?.

 
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This is becoming rather comical. Now Monahan is taking a leave of absence to address a "medical issue". Anyone wanna bet we never see this guy again?

Who knew being stupid and a liar were medical conditions?
 
Urban Meyer.
Tom And Jerry Lol GIF by myHQ


So well played, sir.
 
I think many of the PGA tour players are going to have a huge problem with this.
They were lied to by the PGA! They weren't included in any of these negotiations or even made aware of them.
Phil Mickelsen is apparently hated by many in the PGA, but he was waaaaay more right about the shortcomings of the PGA than were his detractors.
I'd love to hear from Rory, Jack, Tiger and other big time PGA backers.
Jack has stated he is for it, Rory says its good for the game in the long run, haven't heard from Tiger. Reports are now that the Tour was hemorrhaging cash, they could not sustain the inflated $20mil designated events and had to dip into their reserves. They had no real choice. SIF got want they wanted, which was into the PGA Tour, LIV was their avenue, and I expect it to go away. The Tour got control and the end of LIV. The real problem was the prior statements by the commissioner on dealing the with Saudis. Of course, Phil had some not so kind comments about them too. I have no issue with the Saudi money. We have sent millions of jobs to China and elsewhere that don't follow decent labor rules and buy those products, and I don't hear any concerns about the African nations using child labor and unheard of conditions for mining Cobalt and Lithium for our electric powered cars. The historical list of ignoring practices that we may not agree with, yet dealing with the parties involved is quite long. At the very least, if the Tour can continue its philanthropic partnerships in its events, the Saudi money will be used for a greater good.
 
I keep hearing the end of the LIV.
If that is true, I'll be interested to see how they integrate the LIV players back onto the PGA or DP tours.
For many who objected to the LIV, the issue was that it's Saudi money. Do they quit the PGA tour now?
I think not!
 
Jack has stated he is for it, Rory says its good for the game in the long run, haven't heard from Tiger. Reports are now that the Tour was hemorrhaging cash, they could not sustain the inflated $20mil designated events and had to dip into their reserves. They had no real choice. SIF got want they wanted, which was into the PGA Tour, LIV was their avenue, and I expect it to go away. The Tour got control and the end of LIV. The real problem was the prior statements by the commissioner on dealing the with Saudis. Of course, Phil had some not so kind comments about them too. I have no issue with the Saudi money. We have sent millions of jobs to China and elsewhere that don't follow decent labor rules and buy those products, and I don't hear any concerns about the African nations using child labor and unheard of conditions for mining Cobalt and Lithium for our electric powered cars. The historical list of ignoring practices that we may not agree with, yet dealing with the parties involved is quite long. At the very least, if the Tour can continue its philanthropic partnerships in its events, the Saudi money will be used for a greater good.
This was basically my speculation after first hearing about this deal last week:
Haven't seen the TV ratings, but I can't imagine that they're exactly thriving for the non-majors lately. The PGA Tour is already bleeding sponsors (see Honda). The Saudi money (along with the return of stars such as Cam, Brooks, Bryson, DJ, etc.) will be a welcome injection of adrenaline for what may have been becoming a stale product.
 
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Jack has stated he is for it, Rory says its good for the game in the long run, haven't heard from Tiger. Reports are now that the Tour was hemorrhaging cash, they could not sustain the inflated $20mil designated events and had to dip into their reserves. They had no real choice. SIF got want they wanted, which was into the PGA Tour, LIV was their avenue, and I expect it to go away. The Tour got control and the end of LIV. The real problem was the prior statements by the commissioner on dealing the with Saudis. Of course, Phil had some not so kind comments about them too. I have no issue with the Saudi money. We have sent millions of jobs to China and elsewhere that don't follow decent labor rules and buy those products, and I don't hear any concerns about the African nations using child labor and unheard of conditions for mining Cobalt and Lithium for our electric powered cars. The historical list of ignoring practices that we may not agree with, yet dealing with the parties involved is quite long. At the very least, if the Tour can continue its philanthropic partnerships in its events, the Saudi money will be used for a greater good.
Awesome post and @NoleinATL I'll get you the info.
 
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Still reading up on the details, but Monahan is a hypocrite and a coward.

A hypocrite for doing a complete 180 from his statement one year ago almost to the day to Jim Nance when he said has any PGA player had to apologize for playing on that tour. And a coward for not even telling the membership of the deal before he went on CNBC and announced it.

An interesting theory put out there by Jim Gray was that the PGA was in a position of financial weakness as it pertained to the litigation. With all the money the Saudis have such deep pockets they could afford to play the long game and wait out the PGA. Add to that with both entities being very secretive, in litigation there would be the discovery process that could bring out things the two would not like made public. Especially the Saudis who do not have a system of juris prudence like the US does.
He just did all that crap behind the players backs and then didn't have the respect and courtesy to notify them of the merger. Rory found out on Twitter. That's a disrespectful shame. He should be entering the federal witness protection program and be relocated to Western Montana or somewhere near Ruby Ridge. He could live in the Unabomber's one room shack. :)
 
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