I rely on multiple expert opinions whenever possible.
Chiropractor?
- Thread starter littleitch1
- Start date
A friend had a stroke after having a chiro work on his neck. However correlation does not equal causaition.
The stroke was due to one of his cartoid arteries in his neck being blocked. He had a long recovery, and I "think" the other cartoid artery took over the work of the blocked one.
I have been to a chiro a few times for some flexibility issues in my hip. He's called the "Shred Doctor" because he does a lot of work with competitive surfers (not me). He give me some bood exercises and massage to do.
The stroke was due to one of his cartoid arteries in his neck being blocked. He had a long recovery, and I "think" the other cartoid artery took over the work of the blocked one.
I have been to a chiro a few times for some flexibility issues in my hip. He's called the "Shred Doctor" because he does a lot of work with competitive surfers (not me). He give me some bood exercises and massage to do.
I believe chiropracty isn't real science. That's all.
Effect of Usual Medical Care Plus Chiropractic Care vs Usual Medical Care Alone on Pain and Disability Among US Service Members With Low Back Pain: A Comparative Effectiveness Clinical Trial - PubMed
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT01692275.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Effect of Usual Medical Care Plus Chiropractic Care vs Usual Medical Care Alone on Pain and Disability Among US Service Members With Low Back Pain: A Comparative Effectiveness Clinical Trial - PubMed
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT01692275.
The conflict of interest seems off but I dunno..
I do wonder how much of the moderate short-term improvement is due to the placebo effect, like with other medical interventions.
Conclusions and relevance: Chiropractic care, when added to usual medical care, resulted in moderate short-term improvements in low back pain intensity and disability in active-duty military personnel. This trial provides additional support for the inclusion of chiropractic care as a component of multidisciplinary health care for low back pain, as currently recommended in existing guidelines. However, study limitations illustrate that further research is needed to understand longer-term outcomes as well as how patient heterogeneity and intervention variations affect patient responses to chiropractic care.
Conflict of interest statement
Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Goertz reported receiving personal fees from Spine IQ as chief executive officer and from the American Chiropractic Association as a consultant outside the submitted work; and owning stock in Prezacor, Inc. Dr Pohlman reported receiving an educational fellowship from NCMIC Foundation outside the submitted work. Ms Walter reported receiving grants from RAND Corporation during the conduct of the study; and receiving grants from the US Army Medical Research Acquisition Agency, Samueli Institute, and RAND Corporation outside the submitted work. Dr Coulter reported receiving grants from RAND Corporation during the conduct of the study. No other disclosures were reported.
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Yikes the carotid isn’t a good one to ignore.
Both of my parents had their carotid arteries successfully undergo the “roto rooter” surgery.
Some of my early experiences with Chiropractors were not positive. However in the last 5 years I have seen my current guy for two separate issues. He fixes me up and gives me a PT plan to correct problems long term. I think he and his staff are incredible and appreciate the long term approach and not the quick fix. I have and will continue to recommend him to others.
Well...we are known as the clown school (circus). Sounds appropriate to have such a program. 🥸
Are you implying that the placebo affect took affect after I tried the second chiropractor and then lasted for ~30 years?
Maybe we should revisit the placebo affect of prayer since you're feeling so scientific.
I was referencing the study, not your personal experience. If any medical intervention worked for you, that's great.
The placebo effect is real across many interventions. I think the placebo effect is awesome.
If there's a placebo effect in prayer, that wouldn't surprise or discourage me.
The power of the placebo effect - Harvard Health
Under the right circumstances, a placebo effect—in which the brain convinces the body a fake treatment is the real thing—can be as effective as traditional treatments....
www.health.harvard.edu
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I can't wait for the chance to take my grandkids to the Flying High Circus!
FMFFM!
FUFFFUF!
Right, the study was placebo affect, my experience was. NFL teams keep chiros on staff for the placebo.I was referencing the study, not your personal experience. If any medical intervention worked for you, that's great.
The placebo effect is real across many interventions. I think the placebo effect is awesome.
If there's a placebo effect in prayer, that wouldn't surprise or discourage me.
The power of the placebo effect - Harvard Health
Under the right circumstances, a placebo effect—in which the brain convinces the body a fake treatment is the real thing—can be as effective as traditional treatments....
I have injury to my cervical # 5 and 6 since I was 16 and my Chiropractors know this and adjust my neck. Never have had any problems.When you employ people, you see stuff.
You skipped this part of the study and the opinion of @BrainVision but believe whatever you want.
I'm not trying to convince you.
Conflict of interest statement
Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Goertz reported receiving personal fees from Spine IQ as chief executive officer and from the American Chiropractic Association as a consultant outside the submitted work; and owning stock in Prezacor, Inc. Dr Pohlman reported receiving an educational fellowship from NCMIC Foundation outside the submitted work.
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Randomised comparison of chiropractic and hospital outpatient management for low back pain: results from extended follow up - PubMed
At three years the results confirm the findings of an earlier report that when chiropractic or hospital therapists treat patients with low back pain as they would in day to day practice those treated by chiropractic derive more benefit and long term satisfaction than those treated by hospitals.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Low back pain of mechanical origin: randomised comparison of chiropractic and hospital outpatient treatment - PubMed
For patients with low back pain in whom manipulation is not contraindicated chiropractic almost certainly confers worthwhile, long term benefit in comparison with hospital outpatient management. The benefit is seen mainly in those with chronic or severe pain. Introducing chiropractic into NHS...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Randomised comparison of chiropractic and hospital outpatient management for low back pain: results from extended follow up - PubMed
At three years the results confirm the findings of an earlier report that when chiropractic or hospital therapists treat patients with low back pain as they would in day to day practice those treated by chiropractic derive more benefit and long term satisfaction than those treated by hospitals.Low back pain of mechanical origin: randomised comparison of chiropractic and hospital outpatient treatment - PubMed
For patients with low back pain in whom manipulation is not contraindicated chiropractic almost certainly confers worthwhile, long term benefit in comparison with hospital outpatient management. The benefit is seen mainly in those with chronic or severe pain. Introducing chiropractic into NHS...
OK then, chiropractic treatment was 29% and 7% more effective than hospital treatment compared to hospital care for lower back pain, according to those two studies.
They're still not medical doctors and aren't taken seriously by many real doctors.
The End of Chiropractic
An article written by 3 chiropractors and a PhD in physical education and published on December 2, 2009 in the journal Chiropractic and Osteopathy may have sounded the death knell for chiropractic.
sciencebasedmedicine.org
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Exactly what happened to my friend.OK then, chiropractic treatment was 29% and 7% more effective than hospital treatment compared to hospital care for lower back pain, according to those two studies.
They're still not medical doctors and aren't taken seriously by many real doctors.
The End of Chiropractic
An article written by 3 chiropractors and a PhD in physical education and published on December 2, 2009 in the journal Chiropractic and Osteopathy may have sounded the death knell for chiropractic.sciencebasedmedicine.org
That video is Dr. Darria.
She taught medicine at Harvard.
About Us - Dr. Darria Long Gillespie
MEET MEET Dr. Darria Long leverages the best of science, to make our lives healthier, better… and easier. By combining her life’s work as an Emergency Room physician and being a mom of two – Dr. Darria has become the nation’s ‘making life better for…
drdarria.com
I'm also one of those C5 people. They know they can't mess with that. My C5 injury occurred when I was a kid, probably one of the major throws off of a horse, I don't know.
My long time pediatrician advised my mother for me not to have the surgeries that so many people recommended. Instead, she suggested that I focus on swimming. And, orthopods taught me to do exercises with my ankles on land, as well as in the water.
I managed riding horses, playing tennis and swimming throughout my life without having to have major surgeries. However, it has never been without my doing daily exercises with my ankles, which thankfully became a life long process with my ankles.
I believe in modern medicine, don't get me wrong, but I also believe that reiki, yoga. ayervedic, and holistic medicine can help in ways that the medical establishment cannot.
That said, I can direct people to the treatment of lyme disease, co-opted with medical doctors and herbalists. It's well documented.
So, poo poo all the holistic approaches all you want, there is proof that they work.
BTW, I did study homeopathic medicine in Brazil. I bet I can give you remedies that do not contain all the chemicals of "modern" medicine that heal you. But, go ahead and call me a witch. I welcome it.
I'm ready for the next round Brian. Whatcha got?
Oh, and by the way, I did cure someone of their year long ailment. Said person called me a month later and said thank you.
And since you are going to ask for details, I'll tell you.
Norwegian friend that was a diver for an oil company in Rio. His knee had gotten cut up on coral. Coral is weird. Antibiotics won't cure it. (just like Lyme)
He was in town and came to visit my friend and me. So I made a poultice, garlic, onion, rosemary, and honey. Put it on the knee. In 18 months, it had been the only treatment that worked.
Honey--antibiotic
Garlic -- blood purifier, anti bacterial, anti microbial
Onion - draws out bacteria, absorbs bacteria
Rosemary - antiseptic
It's actually very simple. And, if you are the big science searcher, you should know that medicine is based on plants.
You should read about Taxol and FSU, and Dr. Holton.
Oh, and by the way, I did cure someone of their year long ailment. Said person called me a month later and said thank you.
And since you are going to ask for details, I'll tell you.
Norwegian friend that was a diver for an oil company in Rio. His knee had gotten cut up on coral. Coral is weird. Antibiotics won't cure it. (just like Lyme)
He was in town and came to visit my friend and me. So I made a poultice, garlic, onion, rosemary, and honey. Put it on the knee. In 18 months, it had been the only treatment that worked.
Honey--antibiotic
Garlic -- blood purifier, anti bacterial, anti microbial
Onion - draws out bacteria, absorbs bacteria
Rosemary - antiseptic
It's actually very simple. And, if you are the big science searcher, you should know that medicine is based on plants.
You should read about Taxol and FSU, and Dr. Holton.
Cool. What year was that? You are a healer, just like the Lord.
What's your opinion on vaccines? How about anti-depressants?
My favorite "holistic" healing is fish oil for migraines. I got brutal migraines for 10 years and went to several different neurologists. They gave me meds that didn't help. In 2011, I started taking fish oil after seeing it on the "Dr. Oz" show (before he became a snake oil salesman) and 4 months later, my migraines were basically gone.
I've been telling every neurologist and migraineur I can about it in the world. I even made a thread about it.
My Letter to the Editor has been printed!!!
From 2001 to 2011, I got brutal migraines about 3 times a month. They were awful; a dizzy spell followed by 8 hours of severe head pain. I went to several doctors and neurologists and nothing really helped. It was depressing. If you get migraines, you know what I'm talking about. They suck. In...
floridastate.forums.rivals.com
That's
Calling Dr. Phil Good
That's fantastic! I really thoroughly enjoyed your insightful tire rotation metaphor. It puts everything in the proper perspective for me. I get it!
Calling Dr. Phil Good
MDs vigorously protect their degree. Many psychiatrist don't consider psychologist to be "real doctors". A DO was looked down upon by those with a MD even though their practice was similar. This has been going on for longer than you've been alive.
I had a C6 and T12 injury while in the military and opted against surgery as it would have required me to separate. During the many years of pain management and PT I was always told one thing. NEVER go to a Chiropractor as you could be permanently damaged. I reassessed this after I separated with the VA and a private doctor and they both advised against it as well. Surgery, pain pills or deal with it . I chose the latter and only use drugs to take the edge off after doing yard work or chopping wood. However, lately I have discovered that turmeric does seem to have a positive effect on the level of pain when I do physical activity.
My chiropractor told me never to let anyone twist my neck. She's the one who discovered it.
Anyway, tumeric as well as ginger is anti inflammatory.
Anyway, tumeric as well as ginger is anti inflammatory.
I had a multi level cervical diskectomy with fusion in 2019. My C5-C7 are all now one. The insurance company made me go through the gauntlet of other options before approving the surgery including PT, chiro and pain management. None gave any relief that lasted more than a week or so.
It was quite evident as to why when the neurosurgeon removed the first disk. In his words, the inside of my vertebrae looked like "heavy grit sandpaper" from bone spurs. The larger ones showed up on the MRI but not the rest. It was twelve hours of surgery to grind them all down.
For me, it turned out that surgery was my only option. No amount of PT, chiro or shots were going to get rid of the spurs. But, that didn't keep the insurance company from making me play the game anyway.
It was quite evident as to why when the neurosurgeon removed the first disk. In his words, the inside of my vertebrae looked like "heavy grit sandpaper" from bone spurs. The larger ones showed up on the MRI but not the rest. It was twelve hours of surgery to grind them all down.
For me, it turned out that surgery was my only option. No amount of PT, chiro or shots were going to get rid of the spurs. But, that didn't keep the insurance company from making me play the game anyway.
Had a similar problem a few years back. Body scan showed 17 blockages in my arteries, and my cardiologist immediately scheduled me for balloons and splints. But, no.....BC/BS I had to take a stress test first. I was still a runner at the time, so I smoked that test--and never got blockages fixed. 5 years later, still clicking along, thankfully.
Funny story. Last time I was at the doc he said maybe I want something stronger than Naproxen. I said no I don't want anything narcotic. He said " Wow, I never hear that" .
She would need a doc to write a Rx for some penicillin for that.
So you acknowledge that there was a benefit. Great, I'm done here.OK then, chiropractic treatment was 29% and 7% more effective than hospital treatment compared to hospital care for lower back pain, according to those two studies.
They're still not medical doctors and aren't taken seriously by many real doctors.
The End of Chiropractic
An article written by 3 chiropractors and a PhD in physical education and published on December 2, 2009 in the journal Chiropractic and Osteopathy may have sounded the death knell for chiropractic.sciencebasedmedicine.org
Some swear by them, some don't. I would never go to one but that's just me. I'm sure some people have benefitted from that type treatment and that's great. Whatever can avoid surgery and drugs is a bonus.
Here's the thing. Animal care is tough because you never know what's really wrong. They cant say how they feel or what hurts, plus animals (dogs in particular) are really good at masking what's wrong until its something serious. I would hate to subject an animal to that with the possibility that something could go wrong. It would be hard to live with. I have the same apprehension with dogs and the vet for regular medical care.
Cats are way worse than dogs when it comes to masking illness.
Good thing medical doctors have never done that……. 🤦♂️
I can only speak for myself, but Chiropractors have helped me tremendously more than any Orthopedic doctors, physical therapists, or pharmaceuticals they gave me. For me, having a chiropractor find the source of the issue, treat the issue, and fix it has been significantly better.
