Death Penalty

[ChiefWB]

Yesterday Donald Dillbeck died by lethal injection for the 1990 murder of a woman in the parking lot of Gayfer’s in the Tallahassee mall. Not sure I see the point, 33 years later, of the execution. My opinion is let them rot. Certainly others will see this differently.

 

[SoddyNole]

I don't look at as punishment as much as putting a rabid dog down for the heinous crimes they committed. Obviously if you are going to go through with this you want to make sure you get it right and that creates a lot of time to process, too much time imo.

 

[SoddyNole]

I oppose the death penalty categorically and comprehensively. My stance is that no person should ever be executed by the government.

I understand your point but do you have the same stance on war too? Governments have been killing folks since the invention of government.

 

[ChiefWB]

Obviously if you are going to go through with this you want to make sure you get it right and that creates a lot of time to process, too much time imo.

Is it really a punishment or deterrent 33 years after the fact though? From my perspective it is almost a gift.

 

[NoleSince1961]

If I supported capital punishment, which I believe I do, I’d say “yeh go ahead and save us all the continued incarceration expense, and adios”

 

[spencerklly]

Yesterday Donald Dillbeck died by lethal injection for the 1990 murder of a woman in the parking lot of Gayfer’s in the Tallahassee mall. Not sure I see the point, 33 years later, of the execution. My opinion is let them rot. Certainly others will see this differently.

I've always had two feelings in regards to the death penalty. If the case is obvious with no doubt, remove them from the earth. If there is any doubt, just give them life or go though the process until there isn't doubt. I still don't understand why acts of terrorism or mass violent aren't handled more swiftly but I guess that's where we are now.

 

[spencerklly]

Is it really a punishment or deterrent 33 years after the fact though? From my perspective it is almost a gift.

That's the issue. Nothing is a deterrent because justice is not swift, not that it ever was.

 

[SoddyNole]

Is it really a punishment or deterrent 33 years after the fact though? From my perspective it is almost a gift.

It is not punishment or a deterrent, it is for humanity.

 

[ChiefWB]

It is not punishment or a deterrent, it is for humanity.

In what way?

 

[SoddyNole]

We all the ability to do heinous acts in us and yet we don't, why? I believe you incarcerate the lawless and you sentence those who have lost their soul or whatever it is that separates us to be removed from their existence. At that point you are well beyond punishments and deterrents and the gift of putting them out of their misery is our gift.

 

[goldmom]

I think use of the death penalty should be extremely rare.
I’m not familiar with the facts of this case but the crime seems to have been horrible and tragic. Why do we incarcerate someone for 33 years and then execute them? He likely had a miserable existence behind bars.

I was relieved when Ted Bundy was removed from the earth. He was irredeemable and dangerous to young women and he had a talent for escaping. It was truly a matter of public safety IMO.

Timothy McVeigh killed hundreds of innocent people including little ones. I had no sympathy for him when he headed to his execution.

Aiden Fucci, a 15 year old here in Jax stabbed his then 13 year old female neighbor and classmate 124 times on Mother’s Day 2021 and bragged about it. He pleaded guilty and will be sentenced this month to a likely term of 25+ years - after the possibility of the death sentence was removed to get his plea. He may not get out alive because he’s been a jailhouse bully. Rough justice might happen. His Mother goes to trial soon for lying to the police and trying to cover up evidence.
In Palatka a young man in his 20’s just received the death sentence for slitting the throats of his girlfriend’s two boys and then stabbing them repeatedly. He’ll be 50 if/when he’s executed. That’s ridiculous.

So called civilized countries have been executing people for hundreds of years but it was as much a deterrent for citizens to “behave” as it was punishment for the convicted. Hangings were a public spectacle and they allegedly taught a lesson to those in attendance.
Beheadings are still used in some countries. But only after “prayers” on a certain day of the week.

On the whole, I don’t think the death penalty today is an effective deterrent that comes close to what it accomplished decades ago. Not really a proponent of the sentence.

 

[ChiefWB]

We all the ability to do heinous acts in us and yet we don't, why? I believe you incarcerate the lawless and you sentence those who have lost their soul or whatever it is that separates us to be removed from their existence. At that point you are well beyond punishments and deterrents and the gift of putting them out of their misery is our gift.

Not a big fan of the idea rewarding those who cause great pain. I also don’t think it is “humane” to play God. But maybe that’s just me.

 

[SoddyNole]

Not a big fan of the idea rewarding those who cause great pain. I also don’t think it is “humane” to play God. But maybe that’s just me.

I don't believe playing god is about culling the herd and getting rid of the bad ants. I think that is left up to us to decide and live with. Their removal is society's reward.

By the way this is a very dark topic for a Friday.

Cheers and enjoy the weekend all! 🤣

 

[spencerklly]

I think use of the death penalty should be extremely rare.
I’m not familiar with the facts of this case but the crime seems to have been horrible and tragic. Why do we incarcerate someone for 33 years and then execute them? He likely had a miserable existence behind bars.

I was relieved when Ted Bundy was removed from the earth. He was irredeemable and dangerous to young women and he had a talent for escaping. It was truly a matter of public safety IMO.

Timothy McVeigh killed hundreds of innocent people including little ones. I had no sympathy for him when he headed to his execution.

Aiden Fucci, a 15 year old here in Jax stabbed his then 13 year old female neighbor and classmate 124 times on Mother’s Day 2021 and bragged about it. He pleaded guilty and will be sentenced this month to a likely term of 25+ years - after the possibility of the death sentence was removed to get his plea. He may not get out alive because he’s been a jailhouse bully. Rough justice might happen. His Mother goes to trial soon for lying to the police and trying to cover up evidence.
In Palatka a young man in his 20’s just received the death sentence for slitting the throats of his girlfriend’s two boys and then stabbing them repeatedly. He’ll be 50 if/when he’s executed. That’s ridiculous.

So called civilized countries have been executing people for hundreds of years but it was as much a deterrent for citizens to “behave” as it was punishment for the convicted. Hangings were a public spectacle and they allegedly taught a lesson to those in attendance.
Beheadings are still used in some countries. But only after “prayers” on a certain day of the week.

On the whole, I don’t think the death penalty today is an effective deterrent that comes close to what it accomplished decades ago. Not really a proponent of the sentence.

Fucci should have a cinder block dropped on his head repeatedly.

 

[Moriartythomas]

why is this on this message board???

 

[Jerry gray]

For murders, sexual predator on children and sex trafficking should warrant the death penalty. If they are caught in the crime of any of these they should be hung on the public square And right after their arrest and trial.

 

[ChiefWB]

why is this on this message board???

Why shouldn’t it be? Did I break a rule or some code? Feel free to skip over it if you have some issue.

 

[ChiefWB]

If they are caught in the crime of any of these they should be hung on the public square And right after their arrest and trial.

That’s my original thought. The time lapse just loses any deterrent it might initially cause. After 33 years it just seems like vengeance.

 

[spencerklly]

For murders, sexual predator on children and sex trafficking should warrant the death penalty. If they are caught in the crime of any of these they should be hung on the public square And right after their arrest and trial.

Bingo

 

[12Nole]

I’d like to see more Chain-Gangs and work crews. Way too much trash on the streets and overgrown vegetation on the roadways.

Put them to work.

 

[spencerklly]

I’d like to see more Chain-Gangs and work crews. Way too much trash on the streets and overgrown vegetation on the roadways.

Put them to work.

That's considered inhumane now.

 

[12Nole]

That's considered inhumane now.

I don’t think society will continue to allow the type of leniency we are giving career criminals. In the next 10 years I expect to see harsher punishments and accountability.

It’s all cyclical.

 

[spencerklly]

I don’t think society will continue to allow the type of leniency we are giving career criminals. In the next 10 years I expect to see harsher punishments and accountability.

It’s all cyclical.

My dad did 35 years with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, then worked with the public defender for a little bit... he said no one is scared of being arrested anymore due to the revolving door.

 

[SoddyNole]

I’d like to see more Chain-Gangs and work crews. Way too much trash on the streets and overgrown vegetation on the roadways.

Put them to work.

TN has the worst highway trash problem in the country. For such a beautiful state with some of the nicest people you will meet, we have some really trashy residents. One of the local mayors was talking about this subject and apparently the DA has to propose weekend trash pickup for the local judges to order it. We just recently got a new DA and sure enough the trash problem seems to be much better even though I put the blame on the trashy residents and it should not come down to the DA to enforce clean up.

 

[JAG2001]

Is it really a punishment or deterrent 33 years after the fact though? From my perspective it is almost a gift.

Yes I agree that it was a relief to him now that’s why they should have fried him 1 week after the guilty verdict

 

[12Nole]

My dad did 35 years with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, the worked with the public defender for a little bit... he said no one is scared of being arrested anymore due to the revolving door.

It’s going to swing back. All across the U.S. fatigue is slowly starting to set in. It’s the same story over and over. No one wants to hear anymore excuses for the folks that have a criminal record thicker than the dictionary.

 

[spencerklly]

It’s going to swing back. All across the U.S. fatigue is slowly starting to set in. It’s the same story over and over. No one wants to hear anymore excuses for the folks that have a criminal record thicker than the dictionary.

I hope so. I tried to put a guy in prison so he'd get the psychiatric help he needed. Unless they go to big lockups, some individuals will never get the real help they need and continue to be a menace.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I’m a supporter of capitol punishment but in order for it to be effective it needs to be swift. Murder, terrorism, crimes against children and treason (wartime) should get a dirt nap. Quickly and public. After this long it looses the intended purpose.

 

[spencerklly]

I hope not. I hope my community continues to work toward abolition of the carceral state. We voted two years ago to depopulate and tear down our central jail, which is one of the largest jails in the world. We also refused to support the ridiculous effort to recall our progressive DA, George Gascón, and I predict that he will win reelection easily.

Prisons should not be psychiatric hospitals, and psychiatric hospitals should not be prisons. I absolutely agree with Dostoyevsky that the degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.

Sending that individual away doesn't mean he'll be in actual prison. There are specific programs for individuals who need intervention who either can't afford it or ignore it all together. We are seeing people get trades now in the prison system... it's not a terrible product any longer.

 

[spencerklly]

We can provide people training in trades and mental health services without taking their freedom away from them and subjecting them to incarceration.

So... what do you do with felons?

 

[spencerklly]

I provide them compassionate mental healthcare.

Where do they live in the mean time? Are all felons mentally unstable? What about the high percentage of recidivism?

 

[GeddyLee09]

We can provide people training in trades and mental health services without taking their freedom away from them and subjecting them to incarceration.

So what’s the penalty for committing a crime? Nothing? A handshake? Good luck with that.

 

[spencerklly]

Most of the system impacted and formerly incarcerated people with whom I work live at home. I think that most people who have been convicted of felonies have psychological concerns. I believe that the available data indicates that a focus on humane rehabilitation and reintegration reduces recidivism dramatically.

It's possible. But even when I was studying this in 2012-2014 for my masters it didn't seem feasible. I agree a percentage can be rehabilitated from their residence, but that percentage isn't high. Proof is also in data associated with repeat offenders who were still on probation.

 

[ChiefWB]

I provide them compassionate mental healthcare.

Sometime it’s too late for a hug. A lot of accountability and a healthy does of fear would be my recipe to the right path.

 

[spencerklly]

Most of the system impacted and formerly incarcerated people with whom I work live at home. I think that most people who have been convicted of felonies have psychological concerns, and most of them have those concerns worsened severely by their experiences with the justice system. I believe that the available data indicate that a focus on humane rehabilitation and reintegration reduces recidivism dramatically.

I'm curious. I assume you work in some psychological profession. What is the prime issue for the homeless population in California (I assume you live there based on your comments).

 

[spencerklly]

I do not think that any location within the United States has implemented a restorative justice and humane rehabilitation system at any point in our history. I think it can be done, and I think that systems like what has been established in Sweden provide a hopeful counterexample to the disastrous system that we have had in the U.S.

Sweden is nice, but we are comparing a country with 330mil people to a country of 10mil... on top of that 80% or so of the population in Sweden is Swedes. The demographics there make it more feasible with less interwoven cultures with different outlooks on life.

 

[F4Gary]

So what’s the penalty for committing a crime? Nothing? A handshake? Good luck with that.

And meanwhile, Uhaul can't keep trucks and trailers in Kalifornia.

 

[spencerklly]

Which takes us back to the issue of systemic racism and the absolute necessity of counteracting that force within all our institutions and especially within our most destructive institutions, such as the carceral state.

I'm not sure it's racism, but the lack of various programs suitable for every culture... blacks, whites, hispanics, etc... have different standards and beliefs. They also need separate approaches which would mean that people in your world need to create specific programs for each one.

 

[spencerklly]

I am a psychologist. In the research that I have seen, the top driver of homelessness in California is the lack of affordable housing.

That's interesting. I have heard stories from family units needing multiple jobs to pay rent/mortgage but didn't think the vast amount of homeless would be part of a family unit. I was last in San Francisco in 2015. I told my wife I would never go back until the problem was solved. We actually have a large homeless unit in Jacksonville. My wife did psychology in college and is still under the belief there are largely psychological factors in those individuals which inhibits their ability to associate with every day task.

 

[spencerklly]

I do not know what it would be if not systemic racial bias within our society. In the mental health field, we have been mandated to learn, train, and practice multicultural competencies for my entire career. It's enshrined in our code of ethics, and we are formally evaluated on these competencies regularly as a condition of maintaining licensure.

There are very robust professional groups developing specialized programs for every group you can imagine. In my clinic alone, we have groups that specialize in Black, Latine, East Asian, Southeast Asian, South Asian, Asian American, First Generation, Transgender, Masculinity, Immigration Impacted, System Impacted, Neurodivergent, etc. mental health concerns. We also have multicultural and culture-specific trainings and consultations on weekly basis.

That's a good start right there and sounds like yall are trying to make a huge difference. Personally, I don't think there is any right answer on why things are the way the are. I think in many ways we are simply human.