FACE MASKING

[blazernole]

No, it's not. Nothing is. Wal Mart had to raise their wages in order to compete with Target and Costco for workers. There are nice Wal Marts and then there are junky ones. I've been in both.

I was referring more to being shoulder to shoulder with everybody in there. Have you ever tried to get down the cereal aisle on a Saturday? We could form a human chain. But yes there are good ones & bad ones. I dont go to Target much either but I do love Costco.

 

[blazernole]

You're right on with people needing their work valued higher and how many people have been forced into 10-12 $/hr wage slavery. Unfortunately every "paradigm shift" thus far has made people more vulnerable, not less so and more comfortable being uncomfortable. You saw it in the 09 recession when people took what was available jobwise and adjusted their expectations accordingly. Mom's HAVING to go to work, because Dad's job doesn't pay enough to support a single income house; working classers who spent years earning 50¢/hr raises every six months only be fired and resume their same job at the "market rate" where they started; watching your company hire and promote the next c-suiter who has a plan to increase dividends ("time to run 'lean' yeah!) while experience means nothing.

We've been told for 4 decades that our employers are just one tax break or deregulation from sharing their profits. Anyone get a 14% raise three years ago? Still waiting for it to "trickle down" I guess.

Maybe someday manufacturing jobs will come back, but if big business has it's way it'll be us making toys and instapots for China at minimum wage. Not solid middle class jobs. The market simply won't allow it. There's enough cash in the economy to not need manufacturing jobs back; we just need business to share more and policy that allows for that. And we need to shift things back to where an investment dollar isnt more valuable than a dollar generated through labor.

For the record, I'm proud to live in a country with safety nets. I think part of being an American is not telling your fellow Americans that they just need to work harder and do more right things or they're SOL. The biggest welfare recipients in this country are corporations and the investment class, not parents trying to feed their kids in an economy looking to eat them alive.

Whew, off the soap box. Lol.

Weve brought a lot manufacturing back to this country due to revising our trade agreements, using tariffs, & giving companies incentives to be here. If you want to call that welfare then fine but to get to your point...you're business model is a little off. You cant tax the hell out of corporations & expect them to provide high paying jobs at the same time. Especially, when other countries are in competition for those jobs. Dont get me wrong I'm not saying there arent some bad players in corporate America, there are. I'm just pointing out that the idea you put forth wouldn't work for any company thinking locating or expanding thier operation in the US.

 

[FSURobert]

In the last 4 years skill labor has far exceeded 14% wage increase. Since those tax cuts you reference the job market for highly skill labor has sky rocketed. I literally could put 100 trained welders to work a month if it were possible to train them that fast. Starting pay in the $25-$35/hr. Most jobs are averaging 50hrs/week so a lot of young folks are starting careers with good futures in front of them. At the school I teach it is not only the welders in such high demand as companies are lined up to hire electricians, heating and air technicians, mechanics, and many other skilled trades.

I keep hearing corporations and the investment class are the largest welfare recipients, yet we continue to have the highest corporate taxes in the world. While I am not against safety nets, they should be more like hands up and not so much as never ending hand outs.

Didn't union welders make at least $50K back in the 80s? With full medical, pension, ect?
I'm truly glad there are skilled trade opportunities for our young people that pay enough to survive, but the wage hasn't kept up with the cost of living/inflation relative to what was being made 25+ years ago.

Our corporate taxes are completely messed up. Some companies and individuals loophole and taxbreak their way into paying nothing, while some small-midsize businesses and their owners are crippled with tax burden. Personally, I'd like to see a complete revision of our corp tax system such that it reflects how well they treat their employees. For example, if you own a company where everyone makes a living wage and has benefits sure, your taxes should be low. If you're a Walmart, and half of your employees still qualify for the never ending welfare you speak of, they should be taxed til it hurts.

And agreed, a hand up is way more practical than a handout. But a huge chunk of people in this country think of any tax dollar spent helping someone as a handout. To me, a hand up is anything from federal scholarships for trade schools to Headstart to help mothers that need to work before their children are old enough for school, etc. Many look at those as handouts.

 

[FSURobert]

Weve brought a lot manufacturing back to this country due to revising our trade agreements, using tariffs, & giving companies incentives to be here. If you want to call that welfare then fine but to get to your point...you're business model is a little off. You cant tax the hell out of corporations & expect them to provide high paying jobs at the same time. Especially, when other countries are in competition for those jobs. Dont get me wrong I'm not saying there arent some bad players in corporate America, there are. I'm just pointing out that the idea you put forth wouldn't work for any company thinking locating or expanding thier operation in the US.

Agreed, you can't tax like crazy and expect enough meat left on the bone to treat employees right. I have my own ideas that I crudely outlined in the reply above. Unfortunately we're stuck between legislators that either tax and spend to stupidity and those that won't acknowledge or don't care that the unrestrained invisible hand crushes people by nature.

 

[blazernole]

Lol!!!!

 

[divinnole]

Didn't union welders make at least $50K back in the 80s? With full medical, pension, ect?
I'm truly glad there are skilled trade opportunities for our young people that pay enough to survive, but the wage hasn't kept up with the cost of living/inflation relative to what was being made 25+ years ago.

Our corporate taxes are completely messed up. Some companies and individuals loophole and taxbreak their way into paying nothing, while some small-midsize businesses and their owners are crippled with tax burden. Personally, I'd like to see a complete revision of our corp tax system such that it reflects how well they treat their employees. For example, if you own a company where everyone makes a living wage and has benefits sure, your taxes should be low. If you're a Walmart, and half of your employees still qualify for the never ending welfare you speak of, they should be taxed til it hurts.

And agreed, a hand up is way more practical than a handout. But a huge chunk of people in this country think of any tax dollar spent helping someone as a handout. To me, a hand up is anything from federal scholarships for trade schools to Headstart to help mothers that need to work before their children are old enough for school, etc. Many look at those as handouts.

I completed my union apprenticeship in 1981 and I never earned anywhere near $50/hr total compensation. I think the media fueled by Reagan's anti union stance greatly inflated what was really being earned back then. The exception being the UAW and the air traffic controllers at the time. Those 2 unions earned far more than the construction trade unions.

What you consider a hand up is also what I would consider a hand up. However as a teacher in a tech center I could tell you some stories that would piss you off at the waste in some of our "helping" programs.
Just one example, about 12 years ago I had a student turn down a $23/hr plus full benefits job, because he was going to enroll in another program which was his 4th in 7 years. I am all for helping the un or under employed get support and help to earn a GED and get some job training. I don't have a problem with a student getting partially thru a program and realizing it is not for him/her and let them switch to a different program. Support them in their training, help them put food on the table, transportation vouchers, childcare, even after they are employed help them a few months as their wages catch up.But don't enable them to stay on a system of dependency from the government. That is not an isolated example, that kinda of thing happens all the time.

 

[goldmom]

I completed my union apprenticeship in 1981 and I never earned anywhere near $50/hr total compensation. I think the media fueled by Reagan's anti union stance greatly inflated what was really being earned back then. The exception being the UAW and the air traffic controllers at the time. Those 2 unions earned far more than the construction trade unions.

What you consider a hand up is also what I would consider a hand up. However as a teacher in a tech center I could tell you some stories that would piss you off at the waste in some of our "helping" programs.
Just one example, about 12 years ago I had a student turn down a $23/hr plus full benefits job, because he was going to enroll in another program which was his 4th in 7 years. I am all for helping the un or under employed get support and help to earn a GED and get some job training. I don't have a problem with a student getting partially thru a program and realizing it is not for him/her and let them switch to a different program. Support them in their training, help them put food on the table, transportation vouchers, childcare, even after they are employed help them a few months as their wages catch up.But don't enable them to stay on a system of dependency from the government. That is not an isolated example, that kinda of thing happens all the time.

Not many people were earning $100K in 1981 regardless of what Union or what trade.
But you're right about the other. I had a co-worker in Texas whose daughter got into the old Job Corps and hung on to that for six years.

 

[Random_John]

Since this economic crisis is a bottom up issue do any of you feel Unions could make a major come back or do you feel corporations are still king?

 

[F4Gary]

 

[Deerfuel2]

In the last 4 years skill labor has far exceeded 14% wage increase. Since those tax cuts you reference the job market for highly skill labor has sky rocketed. I literally could put 100 trained welders to work a month if it were possible to train them that fast. Starting pay in the $25-$35/hr. Most jobs are averaging 50hrs/week so a lot of young folks are starting careers with good futures in front of them. At the school I teach it is not only the welders in such high demand as companies are lined up to hire electricians, heating and air technicians, mechanics, and many other skilled trades.

I keep hearing corporations and the investment class are the largest welfare recipients, yet we continue to have the highest corporate taxes in the world. While I am not against safety nets, they should be more like hands up and not so much as never ending hand outs.

But that work is hard! You sweat, maybe cut your finger, sometimes have to work overtime, and sometimes you have to pass a drug test. That is not the kind of job, so many living wage folks want. I know people milking cows that make $35-50,000 a year. The farm can not get a US born person to take that job.
The people that sneak across the border to the south, don't come up here to earn $400 a week. They are making $15-25 an hour. Some are skilled, many gain their skills on the job. The hard workers make the most