Mayo Clinic cardiologist shoots down PSU myocarditis numbers

[nips 9]

Which science?

Didn't even mention college football.

Which measures have worked best to mitigate death?

Not 1 person in this thread called Covid-19 a hoax.

That is the problem though, when people debate what is happening, many will say oh so you think it is a hoax like there are only 2 options believe what you say or you are a hoaxer.

Your #2 bullet point states we "are more concerned about possible political ramifications of these deaths or the measures taken to prevent or minimize them", you just accused everyone that doesn't agree with your evaluation of this as not caring about people dying. That is a hell of a thing to say.

 

[nips 9]

Unfortunately, there are too many people who refuse to acknowledge that this pandemic is serious, for different reasons, such as they

1. Desperately want CFB to be played to matter how many deaths occur,

2. Are more concerned about possible political ramifications of these deaths or the measures taken to prevent or minimize them,

3. Don't understand or care about science,

4. Think the pandemic is a hoax or part of a conspiracy.

Read my post above, this new format is awful on a mobile device.

 

[fsukenny]

He is not really talking about COVID.

I would have more respect for some people if they wouldn't hide behind the virus to push agendas. That goes for both sides, I dislike both equally.

Why would one dislike the side that wants to keep business going and not destroy America. Asking for a friend.

 

[jaap]

I’m done arguing about this, because regardless of what you or I think about it, ultimately it’s not our health on the line. It’s ultimately up to the players to decide whether they want to risk it. It’s just unfortunate we are putting 18-22 year old young men in the position of making potentially life-altering decisions under a lot of pressure and incentives to play.

Been doing that for years already. First of all the risk of incurring permanent injury from a contact-sport. But an even bigger stage are the armed forces as a career choice. Lots.of incentives to sign along the dotted line, then afterward you might get sent into the line of fire. We all have to make those choices when we are 18-22 and deciding what we are going to do with our lives and how much risk we are willing to take .

 

[Sawyer55]

Just play football. The people that want to stay home stay home.

Life is full of risk and people should have the option to choose.

I choose football and accept risks.

Amazingly after Nov 4, all this fear mongering will disappear (or reduce significantly)

 

[ZZ828]

The whole myocarditis thing is completely overblown. Covid is not the only thing you that can cause this. There are a whole host of viruses that can lead to this. Just more fear porn for the media to spread.

As for children being super spreaders, I have to disagree. Schools in my county have been open for three weeks now, and I think all of 50 kids have tested positive. Only one at my kids high school. I'm also not naïve. I'm well aware that many more are running around with it and are asymptomatic, which is fine as well. Herd immunity can get reached quicker.

 

[jbnoles4]

Thanks for letting me know that. That’s bad...you get that’s a bad thing, right?

Of course it looks bad to have that many cases in one dorm. And yes, COVID-19 is very contagious. But the death rate for college-aged students is practically 0. Some kids from our church just started at their respective colleges and I know 3 of them had to get tested. They tested positive but no symptoms. The death rate in the US is very low at .03 and that is factoring in all deaths. If you factor in relatively healthy people it drops to .0016. I think we can all agree, that yes, this is a real pandemic but it is the most over reacted to national issue I can ever remember. It is all about politics...on both sides.

 

[FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME!]

Okay. Sorry for being concerned about people’s safety during a pandemic that’s killed 200,000 people in this country alone. I will stop expressing concern about myocarditis since it is officially no big deal. Stay safe out there.

No worries. Heart disease and obesity related deaths are close to 700,000 a year in this country alone as well. Most are preventable with a reasonable diet and exercise...if you want to be concerned about people’s health there’s still plenty to worry about.
Anyway looking forward to seeing football!

You know the 187K # is exaggerated intentionally, correct? You also know that as comorbidities cause the # of Covid-19 deaths to increase so does the isolation, dispare, and economic destitution on suicide #s.

You also know that not only the direct # of suicides matter, but what is left in the aftermath in the next few years. I am sure you are also aware that when they tally flu deaths, they do it by season, not a rolling and continuous accounting. Lastly, I am sure we can all agree that Covid-19 is being used as a political tool and that is why the #s will always be misrepresented, no?

ding, ding, ding!!!

 

[FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME!]

Of course it looks bad to have that many cases in one dorm. And yes, COVID-19 is very contagious. But the death rate for college-aged students is practically 0. Some kids from our church just started at their respective colleges and I know 3 of them had to get tested. They tested positive but no symptoms. The death rate in the US is very low at .03 and that is factoring in all deaths. If you factor in relatively healthy people it drops to .0016. I think we can all agree, that yes, this is a real pandemic but it is the most over reacted to national issue I can ever remember. It is all about politics...on both sides.

Correct. There were 5 times as many deaths to the flu last year from this age group.

 

[FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME!]

Been doing that for years already. First of all the risk of incurring permanent injury from a contact-sport. But an even bigger stage are the armed forces as a career choice. Lots.of incentives to sign along the dotted line, then afterward you might get sent into the line of fire. We all have to make those choices when we are 18-22 and deciding what we are going to do with our lives and how much risk we are willing to take .

Spot on.

 

[Noleway99]

I’m done arguing about this, because regardless of what you or I think about it, ultimately it’s not our health on the line. It’s ultimately up to the players to decide whether they want to risk it. It’s just unfortunate we are putting 18-22 year old young men in the position of making potentially life-altering decisions under a lot of pressure and incentives to play.

I'm not sure that if they get Covid its life alternating but they do make life alternating decisions all the time.

 

[rowdienole]

Why would one dislike the side that wants to keep business going and not destroy America. Asking for a friend.

I said I was done arguing about this, and this sort of bile is why. 200,000 people are dead in six months. That annualizes to 400,000. People. Dead. And that’s with all of the measures that were taken to “destroy America.” If you think this is all part of some evil plan, you are lost beyond the ability of reason to find you. And I pity you. I hope no one you know dies unnecessarily as a result of your partisan flippancy.

 

[fsukenny]

I said I was done arguing about this, and this sort of bile is why. 200,000 people are dead in six months. That annualizes to 400,000. People. Dead. And that’s with all of the measures that were taken to “destroy America.” If you think this is all part of some evil plan, you are lost beyond the ability of reason to find you. And I pity you. I hope no one you know dies unnecessarily as a result of your partisan flippancy.

You sir cannot hide behind faulty statistics. My ability to reason is just fine. Discernment is truly a gift. You, quite obviously, have none. Good day .

 

[rowdienole]

Lol. If you think that has to do with the fans at a game vs students I have no idea what to tell you. But I could probably sell you anything you need if you are interested.

Students have been on campus, so the initial spike would be seen roughly two weeks after they arrived and started interacting. Then it would level off. It would then spike again two weeks after the game. It’s possible that student cases would just continue to climb and it would be difficult to distinguish. Either way, students do not live in isolation. They interact with older people — teachers, administrators, waiters, Uber drivers, whatever. So a bunch of young people walking around with covid will only kill a very small number of them. But they inevitably spread it to others who are more vulnerable. Like fifty-something overweight men at a football game, for example.

 

[rowdienole]

You sir cannot hide behind faulty statistics. My ability to reason is just fine. Discernment is truly a gift. You, quite obviously, have none. Good day .

I am following what the CDC is reporting. You seem to be following partisan anti-intellectual pseudoscientists who are casting any doubt they can in order to help a certain someone look less incompetent. You can believe whatever you need to to help justify in your mind dismissing the urgency of the situation I described above. That doesn’t make it true.

 

[elleby_13]

I've scanned through most all of the comments here, and NO ONE, not ONE PERSON, said anything about staying at Holiday Inn Express last night!! Seems like a missed opportunity, but what do I know...

 

[rowdienole]

You know the 187K # is exaggerated intentionally, correct? You also know that as comorbidities cause the # of Covid-19 deaths to increase so does the isolation, dispare, and economic destitution on suicide #s.

You also know that not only the direct # of suicides matter, but what is left in the aftermath in the next few years. I am sure you are also aware that when they tally flu deaths, they do it by season, not a rolling and continuous accounting. Lastly, I am sure we can all agree that Covid-19 is being used as a political tool and that is why the #s will always be misrepresented, no?

I agree with almost none of that. The CDC is not supposed to have a political agenda. The extent to which it does is in response to intense pressure from the executive to misrepresent the numbers. It is difficult to get exact figures on a novel pandemic virus, made more difficult by the reluctance of certain governors to test, bc more testing means more cases, and more cases look bad politically. It never had to become political, though. The executive did that. So if you want to believe it’s not as bad as the official numbers, for your probably partisan reasons, then okay, maybe it’s 160,000. Everything I’ve been reading — and I try to stick with reputable newspapers and official sources, not USAlibertypatriot.blogspot.com — indicates the official numbers are deflated, not inflated. But whether it’s 160,000 or 200,000, that’s really bad.


The economies of Europe and Asia are recovering much faster, and taking less damage, because they controlled the virus much faster. Nobody here seems to want to acknowledge that.

Yes, there will be negative impacts from this for a long time. It’s a situation with no good choices. Had we done noting, the estimates of the deaths were very high. A lot of deaths very suddenly also have a negative impact on the economy, not to mention it’s also just morally wrong to allow mass death to benefit the economy. Hopefully that’s not a controversial opinion.

Y’all are acting like we’re in a complete lockdown. We’re not. We never were. Europe did, in most places, and controlled it. Here in Connecticut, where we had some of the stricter measures in the country, we have among the lowest rates, and our economy is 85% open. That’s not my guess, that’s an official number.

We have a suicide problem in this country, and we’ve had one, and this experience will make it worse. As I’ve stated, I am not blind to that and I’m worried about it and it’s an issue that has touched my life too many times. I wish the pandemic hadn’t happened. I am not happy about any of this. This is the kind of classic utilitarian train lever situation (for anyone who’s taken an ethics class or seen the twitter meme). It’s a terrible situation to be in. Suicides might increase, but had we done nothing, the numbers of dead would be staggering. They already are. We’re at 67 9/11s right now. How people so easily wave that away I have no idea.

 

[rowdienole]

Been doing that for years already. First of all the risk of incurring permanent injury from a contact-sport. But an even bigger stage are the armed forces as a career choice. Lots.of incentives to sign along the dotted line, then afterward you might get sent into the line of fire. We all have to make those choices when we are 18-22 and deciding what we are going to do with our lives and how much risk we are willing to take .

And I feel similarly about that process. It’s unfair, kind of predatory, targeted disproportionately at minorities, but ultimately their choice and just a part of life. But at least when those young men unfortunately perish in the line of duty, I recognize them rightly as heroes, and not losers or suckers.

 

[SteveT1]

Bigotry is fairly obvious. OK. You do you.

No one who knows the Truth is offended. There were two men brought into this world supernaturally, without human conception; Adam, a direct creation of God, and Jesus Christ, the Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit. Through Adam, sin entered into the world and death by sin. As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Despite what anyone may say or think, God's love is clear: while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Timnole]

Students have been on campus, so the initial spike would be seen roughly two weeks after they arrived and started interacting. Then it would level off. It would then spike again two weeks after the game. It’s possible that student cases would just continue to climb and it would be difficult to distinguish. Either way, students do not live in isolation. They interact with older people — teachers, administrators, waiters, Uber drivers, whatever. So a bunch of young people walking around with covid will only kill a very small number of them. But they inevitably spread it to others who are more vulnerable. Like fifty-something overweight men at a football game, for example.

Your argument continues to be borderline incoherent. Just like your initial post where your two successive sentences contradicted one another, this post has just as much contradiction. Best thing for you to do is acknowledge that you don’t understand, are scared and then remove yourself from the conversation.

 

[rowdienole]

Your argument continues to be borderline incoherent. Just like your initial post where your two successive sentences contradicted one another, this post has just as much contradiction. Best thing for you to do is acknowledge that you don’t understand, are scared and then remove yourself from the conversation.

Much easier to just say an argument is incoherent than to show it. My initial post is perfectly coherent and not internally contradictory. If you can’t make sense of it, that’s not my problem.

 

[Timnole]

Much easier to just say an argument is incoherent than to show it. My initial post is perfectly coherent and not internally contradictory. If you can’t make sense of it, that’s not my problem.

No, it is contradictory. Students are out and about in Tallahassee. But yet them going to a game in open air and not sitting anywhere near 50 overweight males wearing masks shows me that you just don’t understand what you are talking about and it continues to contradict the points you try to make.

 

[fsufool]

But whether it’s 160,000 or 200,000, that’s really bad.

Bad is a relative word. In 1957 around 100,000 died in the USA from the Asian Flu. The population was half what it is now. In 1968 around 120,000 died from the Hong Kong Flu. The population was 60% what it is now. From my point of view, Covid is marginally worse than those two Flu's. Shelter-in-place regulations mitigated the emergent hospitalizations, by lowering the curve, but that only meant it elongated it. Meaning it would have been over by now if we didn't do it and it was unlikely to have saved any lives. For that we crashed the economy causing untold harm. Folks like to pretend that this nasty virus wasn't going to kill anyone if we only reacted in some different way. It isn't no deaths or lots of deaths. It was always a question of how our medical system could handle sick people.

I ask this question a lot and never get a good answer. If masks work, then why 4 months after nursing homes instituted 100% mask wearing (along with several other mitigation strategies) are we still seeing outbreaks in them?

 

[rowdienole]

No, it is contradictory. Students are out and about in Tallahassee. But yet them going to a game in open air and not sitting anywhere near 50 overweight males wearing masks shows me that you just don’t understand what you are talking about and it continues to contradict the points you try to make.

If it’s the 50 overweight males you’re confused about, rest assured I meant to say overweight fifty-somethings. My apologies for the poor wording.
My point is that students are going to get covid and spread it. Whether that’s in the dorm, out at a restaurant, or at a football game. It’s already happening. The students, being young, have only minor risk from it. Minor chance of death, minor chance of stroke, embolisms, etc.

But they then can spread it to older people (the fifty-somethings) who are more susceptible. Where is the contradiction?

 

[Timnole]

If it’s the 50 overweight males you’re confused about, rest assured I meant to say overweight fifty-somethings. My apologies for the poor wording.
My point is that students are going to get covid and spread it. Whether that’s in the dorm, out at a restaurant, or at a football game. It’s already happening. The students, being young, have only minor risk from it. Minor chance of death, minor chance of stroke, embolisms, etc.

But they then can spread it to older people (the fifty-somethings) who are more susceptible. Where is the contradiction?

Have you ever been to an FSU football game? Are you aware of the student sections? Are you aware of the precautions they are putting in place at the stadium? Are you aware that COVID spreads less in an open air environment?

Seemingly the answer to all these questions and more is a resounding NO! As I said, we get you are scared and not well informed. You may want to step away from the thread and save some of your humility.

 

[F4Gary]

I guess "I'm done arguing about this" doesn't mean what I thought it meant.

 

[rowdienole]

Bad is a relative word. In 1957 around 100,000 died in the USA from the Asian Flu. The population was half what it is now. In 1968 around 120,000 died from the Hong Kong Flu. The population was 60% what it is now. From my point of view, Covid is marginally worse than those two Flu's. Shelter-in-place regulations mitigated the emergent hospitalizations, by lowering the curve, but that only meant it elongated it. Meaning it would have been over by now if we didn't do it and it was unlikely to have saved any lives. For that we crashed the economy causing untold harm. Folks like to pretend that this nasty virus wasn't going to kill anyone if we only reacted in some different way. It isn't no deaths or lots of deaths. It was always a question of how our medical system could handle sick people.

I ask this question a lot and never get a good answer. If masks work, then why 4 months after nursing homes instituted 100% mask wearing (along with several other mitigation strategies) are we still seeing outbreaks in them?

Because “work” is also a relative term. Masks are about reducing spread, they don’t absolutely stop it. If everyone wore a mask when around others, we could get below R=1, and cases would decrease and keep decreasing.

As for your relativizing 200,000 deaths. Ok. Whatever helps you justify whatever you want to happen.

 

[fsufool]

If it’s the 50 overweight males you’re confused about, rest assured I meant to say overweight fifty-somethings. My apologies for the poor wording.
My point is that students are going to get covid and spread it. Whether that’s in the dorm, out at a restaurant, or at a football game. It’s already happening. The students, being young, have only minor risk from it. Minor chance of death, minor chance of stroke, embolisms, etc.

But they then can spread it to older people (the fifty-somethings) who are more susceptible. Where is the contradiction?

According to the CDC, the obesity co-morbidity is 3% of the deaths and is combined with 1-3 other co-morbidities.

In the 45-54 age group 8% of the total deaths are from Covid. In the 55-64 and 65-74 age groups 9% of the deaths are from Covid. So, those in the age groups mentioned are more than 9 times more likely to die of things other than Covid. Now if you have Diabetes, chronic lung disease, heart damage, or are a smoker, then you might want to protect yourself as all those significantly increase your risk. But, it not, then your risk is significantly less than the numbers listed above.

 

[rowdienole]

Have you ever been to an FSU football game? Are you aware of the student sections? Are you aware of the precautions they are putting in place at the stadium? Are you aware that COVID spreads less in an open air environment?

Seemingly the answer to all these questions and more is a resounding NO! As I said, we get you are scared and not well informed. You may want to step away from the thread and save some of your humility.

Yes, I graduated from FSU so I sat in the student section for four years. I am aware of the precautions. They are better than nothing, but it is magical thinking to think they are going to mean nobody gets covid at the game. I am aware covid spreads less in an open air environment. Less is not the same as not at all.

 

[Deerfuel2]

If it’s the 50 overweight males you’re confused about, rest assured I meant to say overweight fifty-somethings. My apologies for the poor wording.
My point is that students are going to get covid and spread it. Whether that’s in the dorm, out at a restaurant, or at a football game. It’s already happening. The students, being young, have only minor risk from it. Minor chance of death, minor chance of stroke, embolisms, etc.

But they then can spread it to older people (the fifty-somethings) who are more susceptible. Where is the contradiction?

You are putting on a show! You are probably more entertaining right now, than you have been in your whole life. Please keep posting! We are all enjoying the display of your intelligence

 

[nips 9]

I agree with almost none of that. The CDC is not supposed to have a political agenda. The extent to which it does is in response to intense pressure from the executive to misrepresent the numbers. It is difficult to get exact figures on a novel pandemic virus, made more difficult by the reluctance of certain governors to test, bc more testing means more cases, and more cases look bad politically. It never had to become political, though. The executive did that. So if you want to believe it’s not as bad as the official numbers, for your probably partisan reasons, then okay, maybe it’s 160,000. Everything I’ve been reading — and I try to stick with reputable newspapers and official sources, not USAlibertypatriot.blogspot.com — indicates the official numbers are deflated, not inflated. But whether it’s 160,000 or 200,000, that’s really bad.


The economies of Europe and Asia are recovering much faster, and taking less damage, because they controlled the virus much faster. Nobody here seems to want to acknowledge that.

Yes, there will be negative impacts from this for a long time. It’s a situation with no good choices. Had we done noting, the estimates of the deaths were very high. A lot of deaths very suddenly also have a negative impact on the economy, not to mention it’s also just morally wrong to allow mass death to benefit the economy. Hopefully that’s not a controversial opinion.

Y’all are acting like we’re in a complete lockdown. We’re not. We never were. Europe did, in most places, and controlled it. Here in Connecticut, where we had some of the stricter measures in the country, we have among the lowest rates, and our economy is 85% open. That’s not my guess, that’s an official number.

We have a suicide problem in this country, and we’ve had one, and this experience will make it worse. As I’ve stated, I am not blind to that and I’m worried about it and it’s an issue that has touched my life too many times. I wish the pandemic hadn’t happened. I am not happy about any of this. This is the kind of classic utilitarian train lever situation (for anyone who’s taken an ethics class or seen the twitter meme). It’s a terrible situation to be in. Suicides might increase, but had we done nothing, the numbers of dead would be staggering. They already are. We’re at 67 9/11s right now. How people so easily wave that away I have no idea.

Which countries in Europe or Asia for that matter did hard lockdowns? Which are testing heavily? Which European nations are doing well financially? So, now all the legacy media is under reporting Covid cases and deaths, because of the president? The CDC is also following suit? I want to make sure I am representing you correctly.

 

[rowdienole]

Have you ever been to an FSU football game? Are you aware of the student sections? Are you aware of the precautions they are putting in place at the stadium? Are you aware that COVID spreads less in an open air environment?

Seemingly the answer to all these questions and more is a resounding NO! As I said, we get you are scared and not well informed. You may want to step away from the thread and save some of your humility.

Also I’m still waiting with bated breath to see what contradictory and incoherent claims I’ve made.

 

[Timnole]

Yes, I graduated from FSU so I sat in the student section for four years. I am aware of the precautions. They are better than nothing, but it is magical thinking to think they are going to mean nobody gets covid at the game. I am aware covid spreads less in an open air environment. Less is not the same as not at all.

So people going to stores, restaurants, etc. are ok? Based on what is being done someone is 10x more likely (probably much higher than that),to get it in some way other than the football game. But I do think you and the media will play up the fact that a person who was out partying and is going to a restaurant and store regularly contracted COVID at a football game.

You better stay inside and never ever go out again. We are going to die!!!

 

[Timnole]

Also I’m still waiting with bated breath to see what contradictory and incoherent claims I’ve made.

I have pointed them out continuously, as have others. Just because you can't (or don't want to) comprehend that, I can't help that.

 

[fsufool]

Because “work” is also a relative term. Masks are about reducing spread, they don’t absolutely stop it. If everyone wore a mask when around others, we could get below R=1, and cases would decrease and keep decreasing.

As for your relativizing 200,000 deaths. Ok. Whatever helps you justify whatever you want to happen.

LOL......OK.......might want to look at the "science" behind all this mask nonsense. It certainly doesn't say what you think it does. As to my "justifying," facts are facts and people like you are in pretend world if you believe we could have somehow reduced the deaths down to anywhere close to 0. We were going to have these deaths no matter what we did. It sucks, but public health officials should have been a little more honest and humble about it. Death is a part of life. 45% or so of the deaths are from nursing home patients who had little "life" left in them. And before you go all postal on me, I have lost both of my parents, one who lived the last 4 years of his life in a nursing home and know that he was ready to die several years before he did because he told me clearly despite his dementia. And my mother in-law had Alzheimers and didn't know anyone for the last 18 months of her life and lived in a nursing home for the last 4 years of her life too. So, those numbers are meaningless without context.

 

[rowdienole]

Which countries in Europe or Asia for that matter did hard lockdowns? Which are testing heavily? Which European nations are doing well financially? So, now all the legacy media is under reporting Covid cases and deaths, because of the president? The CDC is also following suit? I want to make sure I am representing you correctly.

The “legacy media” is pointing out that the CDC numbers are conservative: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/health/coronavirus-infections-us.amp.html
The CDC is doing its best with the resources and information it has while under political pressure to misrepresent the results. An example of that claim is the administration forcing through new guidance while Fauci was under anesthesia, which they then corrected.
I’m not going to sit here and list off every nation in those regions and the specifics of their lockdown protocols. I know South Korea has had a lot of success with heavy testing/tracing and an initial lockdown. Germany same. Even Spain went to a hard lockdown initially because its numbers were so bad. And the point is that they’re fairing, and will fair, likely, well relative to the US because of the success of their measures. They’ve been able to reopen more quickly and broadly.

 

[rowdienole]

LOL......OK.......might want to look at the "science" behind all this mask nonsense. It certainly doesn't say what you think it does. As to my "justifying," facts are facts and people like you are in pretend world if you believe we could have somehow reduced the deaths down to anywhere close to 0. We were going to have these deaths no matter what we did. It sucks, but public health officials should have been a little more honest and humble about it. Death is a part of life. 45% or so of the deaths are from nursing home patients who had little "life" left in them. And before you go all postal on me, I have lost both of my parents, one who lived the last 4 years of his life in a nursing home and know that he was ready to die several years before he did because he told me clearly despite his dementia. And my mother in-law had Alzheimers and didn't know anyone for the last 18 months of her life and lived in a nursing home for the last 4 years of her life too. So, those numbers are meaningless without context.

So your argument is that because we could not possibly have prevented all deaths from happening (which is obvious, and I haven’t claimed otherwise) we shouldn’t have done anything? You’re looking at upwards of 1 million deaths by now had we not.

And the mask science is clear:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...he-scientific-evidence-is-growing-11595083298

 

[Deerfuel2]

LOL......OK.......might want to look at the "science" behind all this mask nonsense. It certainly doesn't say what you think it does. As to my "justifying," facts are facts and people like you are in pretend world if you believe we could have somehow reduced the deaths down to anywhere close to 0. We were going to have these deaths no matter what we did. It sucks, but public health officials should have been a little more honest and humble about it. Death is a part of life. 45% or so of the deaths are from nursing home patients who had little "life" left in them. And before you go all postal on me, I have lost both of my parents, one who lived the last 4 years of his life in a nursing home and know that he was ready to die several years before he did because he told me clearly despite his dementia. And my mother in-law had Alzheimers and didn't know anyone for the last 18 months of her life and lived in a nursing home for the last 4 years of her life too. So, those numbers are meaningless without context.

Thank You for the real conversation and context. I'm sorry for your loss. I feel like most people that are simply being honest, knew people that were ready to leave this world, at the end of their life.
It's so frustrating to see people be dishonest about the reality of the deaths

 

[fsufool]

The “legacy media” is pointing out that the CDC numbers are conservative: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/health/coronavirus-infections-us.amp.html
The CDC is doing its best with the resources and information it has while under political pressure to misrepresent the results. An example of that claim is the administration forcing through new guidance while Fauci was under anesthesia, which they then corrected.
I’m not going to sit here and list off every nation in those regions and the specifics of their lockdown protocols. I know South Korea has had a lot of success with heavy testing/tracing and an initial lockdown. Germany same. Even Spain went to a hard lockdown initially because its numbers were so bad. And the point is that they’re fairing, and will fair, likely, well relative to the US because of the success of their measures. They’ve been able to reopen more quickly and broadly.

I'm not sure you want to use Spain as an example of success as they have a higher death per million than the US and twice the CFR.

 

[rowdienole]

I have pointed them out continuously, as have others. Just because you can't (or don't want to) comprehend that, I can't help that.

Well, that was rude.