Privileged questions?

[littleitch1]

So , seems like if your Caucasian these days you are “ privileged “, according to some other whites out there

So are most folks some sort of social justice warrior as long as it doesn’t affect them?

I am not one of them, I am not entitled to anything, I do not receive govt assistance of any kind, I’m 65 and still out there grinding

But I do think some things are not fair

Here’s a couple -

Express lanes on I95
How is it fair to all the other non entitled paupers that travel the insane stretch of I95 in south Florida like me everyday, that if you have the money you can haul ass in one of the two express lanes?
I mean it would help reduce the traffic jams us poor folks have to sit in each day if those two lanes were just two more regular lanes, right?

Airport express at boarding check in

Why not just make it the same for everyone?

Is this what “ wokeness” is?

Or do I seek fairness?

 

[ChiefWB]

So , seems like if your Caucasian these days you are “ privileged “, according to some other whites out there

So are most folks some sort of social justice warrior as long as it doesn’t affect them?

I am not one of them, I am not entitled to anything, I do not receive govt assistance of any kind, I’m 65 and still out there grinding

But I do think some things are not fair

Here’s a couple -

Express lanes on I95
How is it fair to all the other non entitled paupers that travel the insane stretch of I95 in south Florida like me everyday, that if you have the money you can haul ass in one of the two express lanes?
I mean it would help reduce the traffic jams us poor folks have to sit in each day if those two lanes were just two more regular lanes, right?

Airport express at boarding check in

Why not just make it the same for everyone?

Is this what “ wokeness” is?

Or do I seek fairness?

Skyboxes and club seating. Why do people with money get to watch the same game with extra amenities ? Should be a random lottery. And that TSA Pre, I know it’s free for pretty much anyone with a credit card but it stinks of elitism.

😳

 

[NoleSince1961]

Conversations about “white privilege” aren’t well suited for sports message boards since too many folks who prefer to mock or dismiss it simply don’t understand what that phrase actually means and/or prefer to argue against its validity by totally ignoring what it means.

Like a gazillion other English words, “privilege” has different meanings when used in different context, and the nuance required to have any meaningful convo on the topic doesn’t exist here.

Not an elitist take. Simply reality.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

Skyboxes and club seating. Why do people with money get to watch the same game with extra amenities ? Should be a random lottery. And that TSA Pre, I know it’s free for pretty much anyone with a credit card but it stinks of elitism.

😳

🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

 

[ChiefWB]

🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

 

[goldmom]

LOL I thought you were going to insert her quote “my opinion is the only one that counts”
😬

 

[spencerklly]

I see many people (general statement) who don't realized how privileged they are no matter what race. For the most part, it is an excuse.

 

[spencerklly]

I try to be mindful of the privileges that I hold, though, by its nature, privilege is typically invisible to the holder. I certainly know that I am privileged to be an able-bodied, cisgender white man who holds advanced degrees and is securely employed within the professional class. I also know that I am privileged to be a U.S. citizen and to have a clean criminal record. I try to use these privileges to support the success, access, and inclusion of people who do not hold them. I do not think that I attempt to use these privileges to excuse any of my failings.

I may have not been specific... many people use their "lack of privelege" as an excuse for their short comings when they are pretty blessed to begin with.

 

[littleitch1]

I don’t feel privileged, however I am Blessed to have been raised in a wonderful loving family!

I am Blessed and thankful to have two beautiful children

Blessed by the Creator with so much I did not deserve !

 

[NoleSince1961]

To be white in America is to be “privileged” that our skin color is rarely an obstacle or even a passing concern on a routine basis as we navigate daily life, from childhood through adulthood.

Our black and brown fellow Americans do not have that privilege. It is in no way “making excuses for shortcomings” or any other nonsense that whites toss around to dismiss this privilege to acknowledge that non-whites encounter a very different reaction than we do when they walk into stores wearing a hoody, when they’re stopped by police for the same infractions that we whites don’t have anywhere close to the same fears of being pulled over for, when they apply for jobs with an African American sounding name on their resume (the hiring bias has been proven in study after study), when they get their homes appraised, when they seek healthcare and in countless other day to day situations where the obstacles and inferior outcomes have been documented extensively for anybody who genuinely cares.

When non-whites in America prosper DESPITE their less privileged situation, which plenty do, that’s awesome. But it doesn’t negate the reality of white privilege in America.

The laundry list of examples of systemic bias that we do not routinely face as whites underscores the easier life we lead thanks to our privilege. And it doesn’t matter if we were born into wealth or poverty, or how hard our individual circumstances might be, our day to day lives would entail many more obstacles if we were born into those same circumstances in America with different colored skin.

And you can save the weak counter of how “affirmative action” is so debilitating to whites, unless you can specify how that impacts our daily lives since childhood, our family’s generational wealth or lack thereof, etc.

Again, “white privilege” has ZERO to do with whether or not non-white individuals can overcome the obstacles, but that they face more to begin with. And you can also chill out because simply acknowledging that white privilege is real doesn’t mean you’re accepting blame for anything or that anybody is accusing you of being a racist.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I see being blessed and being privileged as synonymous. Both are advantages that have been granted not earned.

Sometimes privilege is granted but in some cases it’s earned. It’s that hard work thing.

 

[spencerklly]

To be white in America is to be “privileged” that our skin color is rarely an obstacle or even a passing concern on a routine basis as we navigate daily life, from childhood through adulthood.

Our black and brown fellow Americans do not have that privilege. It is in no way “making excuses for shortcomings” or any other nonsense that whites toss around to dismiss this privilege to acknowledge that non-whites encounter a very different reaction than we do when they walk into stores wearing a hoody, when they’re stopped by police for the same infractions that we whites don’t have anywhere close to the same fears of being pulled over for, when they apply for jobs with an African American sounding name on their resume (the hiring bias has been proven in study after study), when they get their homes appraised, when they seek healthcare and in countless other day to day situations where the obstacles and inferior outcomes have been documented extensively for anybody who genuinely cares.

When non-whites in America prosper DESPITE their less privileged situation, which plenty do, that’s awesome. But it doesn’t negate the reality of white privilege in America.

The laundry list of examples of systemic bias that we do not routinely face as whites underscores the easier life we lead thanks to our privilege. And it doesn’t matter if we were born into wealth or poverty, or how hard our individual circumstances might be, our day to day lives would entail many more obstacles if we were born into those same circumstances in America with different colored skin.

And you can save the weak counter of how “affirmative action” is so debilitating to whites, unless you can specify how that impacts our daily lives since childhood, our family’s generational wealth or lack thereof, etc.

Again, “white privilege” has ZERO to do with whether or not non-white individuals can overcome the obstacles, but that they face more to begin with. And you can also chill out because simply acknowledging that white privilege is real doesn’t mean you’re accepting blame for anything or that anybody is accusing you of being a racist.

The appraisal claim is bogus. I work in the industry and you'll have individuals always argue why didn’t you use certain homes for comparison when they have ZERO merit. We can get sued for anything, but when race is involved you can really pull out some guns even if the claims are baseless. Take it for what it's worth, but that's what really upsets me when someone is called a racist or bigot and the individual making the claims really doesn't know a thing about the individual. And I do agree white privilege doesn't have anything to do with being "racist" but what does the idea of it stem from?

 

[spencerklly]

I have not encountered any people who cite lack of privilege as an excuse for shortcomings.

So you have never heard someone claim they have no access or ability to "x" due to not having "y"? Individuals claim wealth, education, employment, even tangible items as privilege when many things can be earned if you work for it. That's why this equity vs equality idea is so big right now.

 

[littleitch1]

I honestly don’t know of anytime during my 65 years on this earth where I got more than another because of the color of my skin!

One of the Blessings I failed to mention was the work ethic my parents taught me at an early age

At 65 there is no one on my projects that can or will outwork me, it’s embedded in me to get my ass out of bed each morning and get to work! And I do the most physical, dirty demo work myself

Being self employed my whole life has taught me that if I’m lazy and not a self starter , I ain’t gonna make any money

In conclusion, it pisses me off when someone says “ your white”, and just assumes that I have it easier because of the color of my skin
America is still the Greatest country on earth!!

 

[NoleSince1961]

I honestly don’t know of anytime during my 65 years on this earth where I got more than another because of the color of my skin!

One of the Blessings I failed to mention was the work ethic my parents taught me at an early age

At 65 there is no one on my projects that can or will outwork me, it’s embedded in me to get my ass out of bed each morning and get to work! And I do the most physical, dirty demo work myself

Being self employed my whole life has taught me that if I’m lazy and not a self starter , I ain’t gonna make any money

In conclusion, it pisses me off when someone says “ your white”, and just assumes that I have it easier because of the color of my skin
America is still the Greatest country on earth!!

It’s awesome that you’ve always been a hard worker. Plenty of your fellow humans of all colors and creeds are and have been as well.

In America, non-whites tend to have far more daily obstacles and concerns to deal with based on their skin color that we do not. Some big and others of the death-by-a-thousand-paper-cuts variety. It’s been that way, to varying degrees, for centuries now. Some of us can’t or won’t acknowledge or empathize with that proven and should-be-obvious fact, for whatever reason(s).

Nothing about “white privilege” dismisses, diminishes or contradicts your personal accomplishments. It’s simply acknowledging what the reality is and has been for people different than us.

I’m sorry if that’s confusing or threatening.
It’s simply real life.

 

[NoleSince1961]

The appraisal claim is bogus. I work in the industry and you'll have individuals always argue why didn’t you use certain homes for comparison when they have ZERO merit. We can get sued for anything, but when race is involved you can really pull out some guns even if the claims are baseless. Take it for what it's worth, but that's what really upsets me when someone is called a racist or bigot and the individual making the claims really doesn't know a thing about the individual. And I do agree white privilege doesn't have anything to do with being "racist" but what does the idea of it stem from?

Please share the actual data you have or specific substantive errors in methodology that discredit the multiple studies nationwide confirming the impacts of race on appraisal valuations. Thanks.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2332649218755178?journalCode=srea

After that, please explain how your personal heartburn with the appraisal disadvantages discredits the dozens of other types of obstacles blacks in America have faced and continue to face as compared to whites.

 

[littleitch1]

61,
It’s not confusing nor threatening , nor is it a race thing to me

I see laziness and entitlement attitudes from all races

In the construction industry it is a huge problem

The way I was raised is to not wait to be told what to do, grab a broom, bag up debris etc, and to not just stand around doing nothing

Or dealing with language issues

Or cultural issues

Or my favorite piss me off thing is that it is somehow now the norm to constantly be on a cell phone while your being paid to do a job

Again, this is prevalent across the board, and not a racial thing

I respect all people except lazy freeloaders
Who could work but don’t, then bitch and moan about their situation

Anyways I gotta go, there’s some nasty demo work waiting on me

 

[NoleSince1961]

61,
It’s not confusing nor threatening , nor is it a race thing to me

I see laziness and entitlement attitudes from all races

In the construction industry it is a huge problem

The way I was raised is to not wait to be told what to do, grab a broom, bag up debris etc, and to not just stand around doing nothing

Or dealing with language issues

Or cultural issues

Or my favorite piss me off thing is that it is somehow now the norm to constantly be on a cell phone while your being paid to do a job

Again, this is prevalent across the board, and not a racial thing

I respect all people except lazy freeloaders
Who could work but don’t, then bitch and moan about their situation

Anyways I gotta go, there’s some nasty demo work waiting on me

Multiple things can be true at the same time.

Truth A: Different demographics of humans can and do tend to experience different realities of daily life than others. In some cases, those differences have been proven to be strongly correlated to skin color.

Truth B: Different individual humans have different work ethics than others.

Good luck with your demo work.

 

[spencerklly]

Please share the actual data you have or specific substantive errors in methodology that discredit the multiple studies nationwide confirming the impacts of race on appraisal valuations. Thanks.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2332649218755178?journalCode=srea

After that, please explain how your personal heartburn with the appraisal disadvantages discredits the dozens of other types of obstacles blacks in America have faced and continue to face as compared to whites.

You sent me a publication I can't even read. Can you tell me how you think an appraisal works and how it can be racist? If I'm appraising a house in a low value area, why would it be worth as much as the higher value areas? The appraisals are based off of money spent. If I have 5 houses within a quarter mile radius, same size, floorplan, quality, etc... which sold for 125k, should I value it as the same home three miles away where those properties are selling 100k higher? I will never say there aren't problems, but most of these claims are based on why are my neighborhood home values so much lower? Well, they sale at a predominantly lower value. USPAP (appraisal ethics) mandates we follow certain rules.

If you think we need equity, then great. I'm for equality no matter what you are. I know there are still issues, but those issues also stretch throughout the entire world.

 

[NoleSince1961]

You sent me a publication I can't even read. Can you tell me how you think an appraisal works and how it can be racist? If I'm appraising a house in a low value area, why would it be worth as much as the higher value areas? The appraisals are based off of money spent. If I have 5 houses within a quarter mile radius, same size, floorplan, quality, etc... which sold for 125k, should I value it as the same home three miles away where those properties are selling 100k higher? I will never say there aren't problems, but most of these claims are based on why are my neighborhood home values so much lower? Well, they sale at a predominantly lower value. USPAP (appraisal ethics) mandates we follow certain rules.

If you think we need equity, then great. I'm for equality no matter what you are. I know there are still issues, but those issues also stretch throughout the entire world.

It’s unfortunate that you continue to protest studies you’ve made no effort to read and understand. Duh on the different values in different areas. Exactly why those who conduct these studies control for variables like that and address them in the analysis of findings. That’s how basically all scientific studies work.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

Life ain’t fair, and the world is not — and cannot be — a utopia. It’s a fact. Some people grasp that and deal with the corresponding realities.

Some people work extra hard to try to overcome, or compensate for, whatever challenges they face. They are slow to quit, or to blame others for their situations.

Still others concoct elaborate rationalizations and excuses for their situations, and try to tear down those ahead of them, irrespective of whether the “ahead” is based on work ethic, superior skill, pure luck, genetics, or whatever.

It’s interesting to see who falls in which bucket.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Life ain’t fair, and the world is not — and cannot be — a utopia. It’s a fact. Some people grasp that and deal with the corresponding realities.

Some people work extra hard to try to overcome, or compensate for, whatever challenges they face. They are slow to quit, or to blame others for their situations.

Still others concoct elaborate rationalizations and excuses for their situations, and try to tear down those ahead of them, irrespective of whether the “ahead” is based on work ethic, superior skill, pure luck, genetics, or whatever.

It’s interesting to see who falls in which bucket.

Also interesting to see who is secure and open-minded enough not to be threatened by acknowledging the reality of others, as well as who truly values empathy and who considers empathy a weakness.

 

[spencerklly]

It’s unfortunate that you continue to protest studies you’ve made no effort to read and understand. Duh on the different values in different areas. Exactly why those who conduct these studies control for variables like that and address them in the analysis of findings. That’s how basically all scientific studies work.

Every study I read in regards to this is neighborhoods with predominately more blacks appraise lower than neighborhoods predominantly white. Why is that? Could it be that's just what homes are selling for in that area? Come over here to Jacksonville and I'll show you where the lowest value homes are. It's extremely difficult for any neighborhood to be predominantly black even in higher end markets, but that's RARELY statistically possible. How can 12% of the population make up the majority of most places? Like I said, you posted a study I couldn't read. I just provided what most of these studies share.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Every study I read is neighborhoods with predominately more blacks appraise lower than neighborhoods predominantly white. Why is that? Could it be that's just what homes are selling for in that area? Come over here to Jacksonville and I'll show you where the lowest value homes are. It's extremely difficult for any neighborhood to be predominantly black even in higher Ned markets, but that's RARELY statistically possible. How can 12% of the population make up the majority of most places? Like I said, you posted a study I couldn't read. I just provided what most of these studies share.

Nope. That doesn’t explain at all why homes in neighborhoods of all different demographics and average values have appraised for less if decorated (photos and such) in a way that suggests they are black-owned vs white or devoid of racial clues.
It might help if you made the effort to research the cases outside of your personal experience in Jax.
Or not, since clearly you’re bound and determined to refute the existence of white privilege no matter how many studies across all facets of daily life demonstrate that it’s real.

 

[spencerklly]

We can go into wage gap as well, which isn't part of the appraisal process but results in individuals of certain socioeconomic status living in lower end areas. You can also thank the banks and other lending industries as well since they are the ones who pass out the money for these loans.

 

[spencerklly]

Nope. That doesn’t explain at all why homes in neighborhoods of all different demographics and average values have appraised for less if decorated (photos and such) in a way that suggests they are black-owned vs white or devoid of racial clues.
It might help if you made the effort to research the cases outside of your personal experience in Jax.
Or not, since clearly you’re bound and determined to refute the existence of white privilege no matter how many studies across all facets of daily life demonstrate that it’s real.

Can you highlight where I said white privilege doesn't exist? Sure I get benefits, but so do others... that doesn't make them right. I was simply discussing the appraisal process

 

[NoleFan2U]

My American Express card says membership has its privileges. So I have that.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Can you highlight where I said white privilege doesn't exist? Sure I get benefits, but so do others... that doesn't make them right. I was simply discussing the appraisal process

Pardon me for interpreting your persistent objections to virtually all the posts of the only 2 people in this thread supporting the notion that white privilege is a real thing to mean you question its reality.
For someone who now supposedly doesn’t question its existence, you’ve chosen a peculiar way to express that… again and again and again.

Starting with “I see many people (general statement) who don't realized how privileged they are no matter what race. For the most part, it is an excuse.” and then continuing on in that same dismissive vein.

 

[spencerklly]

Pardon me for interpreting your persistent objections to virtually all the posts of the only 2 people in this thread supporting the notion that white privilege is a real thing to mean you question its reality.
For someone who now supposedly doesn’t question its existence, you’ve chosen a peculiar way to express that… again and again and again.

Starting with “I see many people (general statement) who don't realized how privileged they are no matter what race. For the most part, it is an excuse.” and then continuing on in that same dismissive vein.

That was a general statement, but ok. My statement was we all need to reflect on how privileged we really are. Not that none exist.

 

[GeddyLee09]

To be white in America is to be “privileged” that our skin color is rarely an obstacle or even a passing concern on a routine basis as we navigate daily life, from childhood through adulthood.

Our black and brown fellow Americans do not have that privilege. It is in no way “making excuses for shortcomings” or any other nonsense that whites toss around to dismiss this privilege to acknowledge that non-whites encounter a very different reaction than we do when they walk into stores wearing a hoody, when they’re stopped by police for the same infractions that we whites don’t have anywhere close to the same fears of being pulled over for, when they apply for jobs with an African American sounding name on their resume (the hiring bias has been proven in study after study), when they get their homes appraised, when they seek healthcare and in countless other day to day situations where the obstacles and inferior outcomes have been documented extensively for anybody who genuinely cares.

When non-whites in America prosper DESPITE their less privileged situation, which plenty do, that’s awesome. But it doesn’t negate the reality of white privilege in America.

The laundry list of examples of systemic bias that we do not routinely face as whites underscores the easier life we lead thanks to our privilege. And it doesn’t matter if we were born into wealth or poverty, or how hard our individual circumstances might be, our day to day lives would entail many more obstacles if we were born into those same circumstances in America with different colored skin.

And you can save the weak counter of how “affirmative action” is so debilitating to whites, unless you can specify how that impacts our daily lives since childhood, our family’s generational wealth or lack thereof, etc.

Again, “white privilege” has ZERO to do with whether or not non-white individuals can overcome the obstacles, but that they face more to begin with. And you can also chill out because simply acknowledging that white privilege is real doesn’t mean you’re accepting blame for anything or that anybody is accusing you of being a racist.

Dr Martin Luther King has a famous quote about judging people on the content of their character not the color of their skin. Saying one group prospers or doesn’t based on skin color is it’s self racist. Content of character is a persons values, ethics, integrity, work ethic and how they carry themselves. This has the largest impact on how people are treated.

Does racism exist? Of course it does in many forms and it’s wrong. But to say people only get by or not based on skin color is equally racist and even does a dis service to those that have overcome obstacles.
Just my opinion of course.

 

[GeddyLee09]

That was a general statement, but ok. My statement was we all need to reflect on how privileged we really are. Not that none exist.

True but some privilege isn’t automatically given some has to be earned by how one carries themselves and by actions. Some are born privileged some not so much.

I get privileges based on Veterans status, income and things like that but none of that was given.

 

[spencerklly]

True but some privilege isn’t automatically given some has to be earned by how one carries themselves and by actions. Some are born privileged some not so much.

I get privileges based on Veterans status, income and things like that but none of that was given.

Exactly!

 

[NoleSince1961]

Dr Martin Luther King has a famous quote about judging people on the content of their character not the color of their skin. Saying one group prospers or doesn’t based on skin color is it’s self racist. Content of character is a persons values, ethics, integrity, work ethic and how they carry themselves. This has the largest impact on how people are treated.

Does racism exist? Of course it does in many forms and it’s wrong. But to say people only get by or not based on skin color is equally racist and even does a dis service to those that have overcome obstacles.
Just my opinion of course.

Cool.
Where did I or anyone else say the strawman fallacy your comment hinges on?
“But to say people only get by or not based on skin color is equally racist and even does a disservice to those that have overcome obstacles.”

In fact, I’ve gone to great lengths repeatedly to make clear that the reality that blacks face more daily obstacles in America than whites says nothing about what anybody does or doesn’t do to deal with the obstacles they encounter.

As whites, the hill we have to climb daily is not higher because we are white. The same cannot be said for blacks in America.

The effort anybody expends to keep climbing whatever hill they encounter doesn’t change the slope or elevation.

 

[NoleSince1961]

True but some privilege isn’t automatically given some has to be earned by how one carries themselves and by actions. Some are born privileged some not so much.

I get privileges based on Veterans status, income and things like that but none of that was given.

See my very first post in this thread.
Not all uses of the word “privilege” mean the same thing.

Really doesn’t seem like there should be as difficult a level of nuance required to grasp that as some insist on making it. Defensiveness is a likely barrier to understanding IMHO.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Cool.
Where did I or anyone else say the strawman fallacy your comment hinges on?
“But to say people only get by or not based on skin color is equally racist and even does a disservice to those that have overcome obstacles.”

In fact, I’ve gone to great lengths repeatedly to make clear that the reality that blacks face more daily obstacles in America than whites says nothing about what anybody does or doesn’t do to deal with the obstacles they encounter.

As whites, the hill we have to climb daily is not higher because we are white. The same cannot be said for blacks in America.

The effort anybody expends to keep climbing whatever hill they encounter doesn’t change the slope or elevation.

Your making a lot of assumptions here.

 

[GeddyLee09]

See my very first post in this thread.
Not all uses of the word “privilege” mean the same thing.

Really doesn’t seem like there should be as difficult a level of nuance required to grasp that as some insist on making it. Defensiveness is a likely barrier to understanding IMHO.

It’s not difficult or very nuanced at all. I disagree with you. Disagreeing doesn’t mean people don’t understand or are stupid no matter how thinly you veil it.

 

[NoleSince1961]

It’s not difficult or very nuanced at all. I disagree with you. Disagreeing doesn’t mean people don’t understand or are stupid no matter how thinly you veil it.

You keep arguing what nobody in this thread has actually said.
But if you think that’s productive, useful for anybody or that’s what you enjoy, carry on.

 

[GeddyLee09]

You keep arguing what nobody in this thread has actually said.
But if you think that’s productive, useful for anybody or that’s what you enjoy, carry on.

Ok thanks 🙏

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

Can you highlight where I said white privilege doesn't exist? Sure I get benefits, but so do others... that doesn't make them right. I was simply discussing the appraisal process

I see brand new low-income housing projects built with some frequency. Beautiful upon completion. Drove by 12-18 months later and they are in obvious disrepair.

Why is that? Do you see that in your work?

 

[GeddyLee09]

Do you disagree that being born white in the U.S. is a privilege?

Yes I do. There are more factors involved. I can show you some white people that would trade in a minute.