Sorry, we were assured here in this thread that "no one got beat up". He probably boarded with those injuries.
United Airlines Video
- Thread starter Fijimn
- Start date
Sorry, we were assured here in this thread that "no one got beat up". He probably boarded with those injuries.
I flew on Tuesday, not United but American. I only fly a few times a year, but it's the first time in several years I flew on a flight with empty seats (ATL to NY). Also, that they gave me a full can of Coke.
I don't know if it was related, but I can't help but wonder if the airlines scaled back the overbooking a bit to avoid any possibility of an involuntary bumping. I'd be pissed, but I'd comply. But after this? This guy will get PAID. Everyone's going to be looking to make trouble now.
The thing I don't understand is why there isn't someone at every airport/airline with like $5-10k in cash to make sure something like this doesn't happen. Obviously, you don't want to set a precedent, but you'd think there would be some guy in a black suit that could walk up and offer you $5k with a legal non-disclosure like they give reality show participants.
I mean, they could have given everyone on the plane $20k to get off and hired them a limo to their destination and it would have been a bargain compared to what this is going to cost.
I also don't understand why they didn't find people willing to drive. I got screwed over by United because our layover was on opposite sides of the Philadelphia airport, and they refused to call down and hold the other plane for two minutes. We watched them shut the door while we were running down the concourse, and then watched the plane sit for 15 minutes. Rather than wait for the next flight, which was going to have another connection, I just went and rented a car and drove the seven hours.
To their very minor credit, we called and United did refund us for the second leg we missed.
I don't know if it was related, but I can't help but wonder if the airlines scaled back the overbooking a bit to avoid any possibility of an involuntary bumping. I'd be pissed, but I'd comply. But after this? This guy will get PAID. Everyone's going to be looking to make trouble now.
The thing I don't understand is why there isn't someone at every airport/airline with like $5-10k in cash to make sure something like this doesn't happen. Obviously, you don't want to set a precedent, but you'd think there would be some guy in a black suit that could walk up and offer you $5k with a legal non-disclosure like they give reality show participants.
I mean, they could have given everyone on the plane $20k to get off and hired them a limo to their destination and it would have been a bargain compared to what this is going to cost.
I also don't understand why they didn't find people willing to drive. I got screwed over by United because our layover was on opposite sides of the Philadelphia airport, and they refused to call down and hold the other plane for two minutes. We watched them shut the door while we were running down the concourse, and then watched the plane sit for 15 minutes. Rather than wait for the next flight, which was going to have another connection, I just went and rented a car and drove the seven hours.
To their very minor credit, we called and United did refund us for the second leg we missed.
Some legislators as a response are pushing anti-overbooking regs, so I'm sure they are on their very best behavior.
Well as far as I'm aware Rowdy Roddy Piper said it first in They Live in '88 and then it was slightly changed (Beer for bubblegum) in Dazed and Confused in '93.
Anyone see the story about the United passenger getting stung by a scorpion? And to think that's not the worst customer experience this week.
Heard the docs attorney say today that the "may" file a suit. He also said they might include the City of Chicago in their suit. Really? Chicago?
He also said Dao said it was worse than when he fled Vietnam during the fall of Saigon. And Jesse Jackson is protesting at O'Hare.
Crazy how this has spun so far.
I'm not 100% clear, they keep changing the story about who they worked for.
On a different topic you can see the initial confrontation here and while you can see the Doctor was being emphatic about not getting off he was not hostile or creating a threat.
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...passengers-conversation-with-security-w476462
So a stern "no!" should be enough? "Okay. Pick another passenger. This guy says no and he means it!"
What I was getting at is there was no threat to public safety so violence by the officers was uncalled for.
If he would've complied as did the other three selected, there would've been no violence.
There was no need to have it escalate to violence. The whole "refusal" was literally a couple of minutes, maybe ten minutes. They literally bumped the violence up to eleven over nothing.
The overwhelming majority of people think United was wrong, and their plummeting stock backs that. Look for a near boycott in the coming months. If people have a viable option, United will probably have an empty seat(s).
They would have been so much better off upping the ante until someone took it. Even if they had to offer free flights for a year!
I am not saying they're not without fault but the good doctor was certainly complicit.
So then you would have left peacefully? They are legally permitted to remove/bump a passenger, per 'contract'...
As I figured, all those that feel that this the worst thing to ever happen, can't say how they would have removed the guy that wouldn't willingly leave.
Sure, offering more money is the obvious solution but they chose not to.(this time)
The analogies are related in terms of, if you are asked to leave someone's property, you leave or take the chances of getting knocked around.
For the record, I totally think that airlines being permitted to remove a ticket holding passenger due to overbooking is total bs.
Delta just dropped 20k skymiles in my account for a delay I experienced last week. My family was returning on Saturday from spring break and each of our accounts is getting 20k. They're loving this UA disaster to move attention away from them. Nice gesture on the points though, I bet there are others who got much more than that.
You are not reading the contract. You have made a wrong assumption on the legality of removing a seated passenger for an employee.
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I don't think new rules need to be made to prevent overbooking. Just tweak the ones already on the books.
Main thing would be that no passenger can be involuntarily bumped once they have boarded. That would force all airlines to make sure this is taken care of BEFORE they start boarding the plane.
I would also increase the amount a passenger can receive if they are involuntarily bumped. Right now I would say that $1300 max is way low for someone bumped against their wishes.
Main thing would be that no passenger can be involuntarily bumped once they have boarded. That would force all airlines to make sure this is taken care of BEFORE they start boarding the plane.
I would also increase the amount a passenger can receive if they are involuntarily bumped. Right now I would say that $1300 max is way low for someone bumped against their wishes.
Well looks like they are going to court and while United would probably like settle I get the impression the Doa team will be asking for way more than United is willing to pay.
I find it odd that based on that video posted he received a broken nose, lost teeth, and a concussion; oh and this was worse than getting out of Vietnam during the fall of Saigon, ok sure.
Fox had 2 attorneys on last night, 1 who is supposedly a top notch guy in these cases and the other guy was just some regular ambulance chaser. The top guy lawyer said he wouldn't take the case and while he thought United did a number of things wrong; the physical damage was on Doa as well and he wasn't sure they would win. He said there are a number of issues here and most people aren't separating the issues. I guess we will see and if Erin Andrews gets 50 million for someone seeing her naked; who knows how this thing plays out.
I find it odd that based on that video posted he received a broken nose, lost teeth, and a concussion; oh and this was worse than getting out of Vietnam during the fall of Saigon, ok sure.
Fox had 2 attorneys on last night, 1 who is supposedly a top notch guy in these cases and the other guy was just some regular ambulance chaser. The top guy lawyer said he wouldn't take the case and while he thought United did a number of things wrong; the physical damage was on Doa as well and he wasn't sure they would win. He said there are a number of issues here and most people aren't separating the issues. I guess we will see and if Erin Andrews gets 50 million for someone seeing her naked; who knows how this thing plays out.
I'm curious about something. Earlier this year I redeemed miles on United to book a flight on Air Canada to go to Toronto this summer. Can I expect to be treated politely by the Canadians on Air Canada or will I be subjected to a beating from jack-booted thugs on United since I booked the flight through United?
Canadians (excluding those from Quebec) are usually quite polite. They will likely apologize frequently before, during and after your beatdown.
Again, I ask, what is allowable by United before the world at large gasps in disgust? Does another passenger have to take a hit while another is being forcibly removed? Does a passenger have to die in one of these removals? In all seriousness. It's "their" plane so can they use the castle doctrine? How far should they be allowed to go?
Most passengers prior to this would just get off the plane without needing to be dragged. They may bitch and moan and use profanity and vulgar language but would still get off. After this, if it is disclosed how much he gets paid, more people may be more apt to get dragged off for whatever the dollar amount is that he receives.
Of course airlines can just simply change a few policies by determining who is getting bumped prior to boarding the plane, which I am not sure why they waited for this incident to occur to do it. Heck they could predetermine the people most likely to get bumped at time of purchase and basically advise them that they are flying on stand by and that they will be bumped if a situation occurs that there are more passengers than seats available. don't give them a seat # on their boarding pass and tell them to see an employee at the gate before boarding to get a seat and confirm availability.
In almost all cases, passengers are not involuntarily bumped AFTER they are already on the plane. This is where United screwed up. These things are taken care of prior to any passengers boarding.
A simple FAA policy change can fix this for good. Change the wording to state that passengers cannot be involuntarily bumped once they are on board. This puts it on the airline to make sure they do what is necessary to avoid this situation in the future. All United had to do was keep raising their offer to stay behind, and none of this would have happened. Eventually someone would have bit, taken the money and gladly stayed behind.
Or here's a thought...don't allow overbooking period. United made 2.5 billion dollars in tax reportable profit (so after their accountants made up everything under the Sun to disguise their actual income and profit), they're hardly hurting. That practice of overbooking probably accounts for at most a couple hundred mil a year in increased revenue. So if Congress removed the statutes they themselves added so that airlines could sell more seats than they actually have, United would have "only" made what? 2.3 or 2.2 billion? Let's say $2 billion to be safe. Oh the horrors of "only" generating 2 billion dollars in taxable reported net profit...
I really don't think overbooking is a big deal or that much of an issue if it's done right. It has been common practice for years, and if people were consistently unhappy with airlines doing it you know Congress or the FAA would have stepped in long ago. It's what they like to do.
Overbooking typically works in everyone's favor. The bulk of the time, they ask for and get volunteers, and based on this thread, people gladly and sometimes actually look to do this. Everyone wins. The airline gets their seats filled, and someone else gets extra money, vouchers or free plane tickets. It seems like it had worked fine for a long time.
This one well publicized incident makes it seem that people are getting thrown off planes all the time, when in fact that's just not true. They are usually bumped well before they ever get on. If United had handled this properly from the start, no one would be having a conversation about overbooking. It was the perfect storm of all the flight delays/cancellations piling up, the airline boarding the plane knowing they had too many people and then Doa deciding he was not giving up a seat he already sitting in.
Overbooking typically works in everyone's favor. The bulk of the time, they ask for and get volunteers, and based on this thread, people gladly and sometimes actually look to do this. Everyone wins. The airline gets their seats filled, and someone else gets extra money, vouchers or free plane tickets. It seems like it had worked fine for a long time.
This one well publicized incident makes it seem that people are getting thrown off planes all the time, when in fact that's just not true. They are usually bumped well before they ever get on. If United had handled this properly from the start, no one would be having a conversation about overbooking. It was the perfect storm of all the flight delays/cancellations piling up, the airline boarding the plane knowing they had too many people and then Doa deciding he was not giving up a seat he already sitting in.
I've personally been on a United flight where we were forced to wait on the Tarmac for two hours then had four people involuntarily ejected to make room for a US Senator and his entourage. They asked for volunteers and then ejected them when they didn't get enough. So it happens often enough.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Well it's an interesting discussion. On the one hand you have people who think that capitalism trumps human rights, dignity and safety and who support authoritarian responses to not just this but almost everything and you have others upset with corporate structure who thinks of humans as disposable garbage to be beaten and removed when inconvenient. Why wouldn't that be a lengthy discussion?
Heck if it wouldn't Godwin the argument, I've got a couple of people identified who I assume are getting measurements taken for their NuTotenkopfverbände uniform as we speak.
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Lol very true. Obviously my experience wasn't as band as getting my face smashed in and drug out half clothed like Dr. Dao was, but I didn't exactly volunteer to sit around with no or little functioning air on the Tarmac while we waited for two hours for the Senator to eventually show up.
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