Update on the frat hazing death at Penn State

[RunRonnieRun]

Thanks but wasn't trying to spin anything

Are you kidding, dude? Read your words:

Late 80s early 90s FSU. Girl drank too much with some pikes (this is the part where you're blaming her) at house, claimed rape (this is the part where you're calling her report of being raped into question), pikes left her on other frats front door with theta chi written on her. Pikes kicked off FSU campus

 

[Tides]

Are you kidding, dude? Read your words:

Late 80s early 90s FSU. Girl drank too much with some pikes (this is the part where you're blaming her) at house, claimed rape (this is the part where you're calling her report of being raped into question), pikes left her on other frats front door with theta chi written on her. Pikes kicked off FSU campus

Ok Ronnie just didn't recall the facts I honestly didn't remember the end result of the matter. Believe me I have no live loss for that fraternity. Sorry for poor choice of words.

I was in a frat that was behind pikes and prior to this the pikes emptied there septic tank on our front porch and left a trail back to their house including their stained clothes on back porch

 

[surfnole]

Ok Ronnie just didn't recall the facts I honestly didn't remember the end result of the matter. Believe me I have no live loss for that fraternity. Sorry for poor choice of words.

I was in a frat that was behind pikes and prior to this the pikes emptied there septic tank on our front porch and left a trail back to their house including their stained clothes on back porch

Sigma Nu?

This type of activity was rare but not unheard of in the 80s, and probably before and even today. What makes this one different is them dumping her at the house next door passed out and writing on her. It's not exclusive to fraternities. I remember my friend lived in Landis Hall in 1981, and there was a "train" one night with a girl in a dorm room. Guys lined up waiting in the hallway. Disgusting I thought about those guys waiting. Police were interviewing the next day.

On the other hand, there are some people who enjoy sex with more than one person. When everybody is inebriated, they don't think rationally. It's not unlike the Jameis story where the roommate asked if he could participate.

 

[Tides]

Sigma Nu?

This type of activity was rare but not unheard of in the 80s, and probably before and even today. What makes this one different is them dumping her at the house next door passed out and writing on her. It's not exclusive to fraternities. I remember my friend lived in Landis Hall in 1981, and there was a "train" one night with a girl in a dorm room. Guys lined up waiting in the hallway. Disgusting I thought about those guys waiting. Police were interviewing the next day.

On the other hand, there are some people who enjoy sex with more than one person. When everybody is inebriated, they don't think rationally. It's not unlike the Jameis story where the roommate asked if he could participate.

Delta Tau Delta

 

[surfnole]

Delta Tau Delta

I remember now. I had a couple of friends there in the 80s. Great guys.

 

[jackdanielsandcokefsu]

Didn't age well.

http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personNbr=6653

15 or so years ago - I was shopping for SUV's in SoFla; and Oltarsh was the sales guy at one of the dealerships.

 

[Gonolz]

15 or so years ago - I was shopping for SUV's in SoFla; and Oltarsh was the sales guy at one of the dealerships.

Did he try to rape you on the deal?

 

[Grad91]

Delta Tau Delta

I was involved with IFC when this all went down. It was bad, just bad. Worse, I was friends with Kathy O. at the time, and the whole incident cast a pall on everything thereafter. Was also a Delt. There were two sets of Pikes at the time - the cool ones who often didn't hang out at the house, and the other guys who had personal relationships with their trust accounts, Ray Bans, Polos and khakis, BMWs, trophy girlfriends, the gym, and all of the other qualities that made the fraternity as a whole a subject of scorn around campus. The whole fiasco was the result of elitism, privilege, and entitlement, and one woman and, to a lesser extent, some solid guys were the victims.

But let's move this forward. Which houses currently on or off-campus are the most likely place for a Penn State-like scenario to occur? It would be nice to alert the chapter advisors if similar conduct may be occurring under their noses.

 

[TC Nole OX]

Late 80s early 90s FSU. Girl drank too much with some pikes at house, claimed rape, pikes left her on other frats front door with theta chi written on her. Pikes kicked off FSU campus

I was VP of Theta Chi at the time and dealt with the police and media during all that. I remember it like it was yesterday. Girl was dumped in 2nd floor hallway of Theta Chi house with Sigma Chi written on her leg.

Claimed rape? Those losers raped her including with one of those space age toothpaste dispensers.

The OX president and I went over to Pike house after getting back from the police station the next morning and the Pike president and a couple other guys told us when we asked them if anyone on the side of the house, facing our house, saw anything that "everyone on that side of the house was out of town at a party." Seemed like an odd answer to us and a few days later we understood why.

The Pikes were banned permanently for covering up and protecting the three rapists. They stayed around as underground Fireman group and the losers who run FSU let them back in for the usual reason, $$$.

 

[Nole Lou]

I was VP of Theta Chi at the time and dealt with the police and media during all that. I remember it like it was yesterday. Girl was dumped in 2nd floor hallway of Theta Chi house with Sigma Chi written on her leg.

Claimed rape? Those losers raped her including with one of those space age toothpaste dispensers.

The OX president and I went over to Pike house after getting back from the police station the next morning and the Pike president and a couple other guys told us when we asked them if anyone on the side of the house, facing our house, saw anything that "everyone on that side of the house was out of town at a party." Seemed like an odd answer to us and a few days later we understood why.

The Pikes were banned permanently for covering up and protecting the three rapists. They stayed around as underground Fireman group and the losers who run FSU let them back in for the usual reason, $$$.

If I recall correctly, the name of the Firemen intramural teams was Crest. Just in case you thought they might have been contrite.

 

[TC Nole OX]

If I recall correctly, the name of the Firemen intramural teams was Crest. Just in case you thought they might have been contrite.

Truly awful and not at all surprising.

 

[goldmom]

I knew TC had firsthand knowledge of the legal fallout and I'm glad he chimed in. I don't mean to trash Pikes but they were NOT a big house when I was there, and then they got that big house on the corner. He's right about the big wigs who were Pikes over the last thirty five years. Definitely some behind the scenes big names. They even initiated Bobby.

 

[Grad91]

I was VP of Theta Chi at the time and dealt with the police and media during all that. I remember it like it was yesterday. Girl was dumped in 2nd floor hallway of Theta Chi house with Sigma Chi written on her leg.

Claimed rape? Those losers raped her including with one of those space age toothpaste dispensers.

The OX president and I went over to Pike house after getting back from the police station the next morning and the Pike president and a couple other guys told us when we asked them if anyone on the side of the house, facing our house, saw anything that "everyone on that side of the house was out of town at a party." Seemed like an odd answer to us and a few days later we understood why.

The Pikes were banned permanently for covering up and protecting the three rapists. They stayed around as underground Fireman group and the losers who run FSU let them back in for the usual reason, $$$.

I daresay from our perspective, being neighbors of both Pike and Theta Chi, that the Pike/Theta Chi animosity in the late '80s ran strong. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the perpetrators specifically put the victim in your house in an attempt to get you guys kicked off campus.

 

[surfnole]

"But let's move this forward. Which houses currently on or off-campus are the most likely place for a Penn State-like scenario to occur? It would be nice to alert the chapter advisors if similar conduct may be occurring under their noses."

It's really hard to say. It can't be predicted. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there was a "train" in Landis hall in 1981. Not fraternity related.

Guys passing out drunk happened many times at every party. One guy I know passed out before Christmas, and they shaved his eyebrows, stripped him down and took compromising pictures of him with a giant candy cane stick up at his butt. Nobody every thought those pictures would be posted on Facebook, and fortunately those weren't , but I have had a few 1980s pictures show up on FB and my kids saw them.

You really did not want to pass out in public at a fraternity party. The same went for women.

I think the difference is whether they were forced to drink and whether they had physically sustained an injury. We used to line our staircase with mattresses and slide down to the bottom sitting in a box and wearing a football helmet. The landing was covered with mattresses. No recipe for disaster there......It was great fun back then.

If the universities weren't so intolerant of drinking, this could have been avoided because the brothers would have called an ambulance because they didn't need to fear punishment. Drinking used to occur on campus and people could walk. Now it occurs off campus and people drive. This is solely due to the PC police at universities. Uber has made a huge difference here though.

It not unlike the woman who leaves her baby at the firestation instead of dumping it in a dumpster. She doesn't need to fear prosecution for doing the right thing. 18-20 year olds are going to drink in college no matter the policy. When I was at FSU, the drinking age was 18-19, and we would not have feared punishment.

I don't mean to diminish from the tragedy of this or the poor response from the brother's at all. However if they did not fear punishment, the situation may have been avoided.

Grad 91, did/do you know the victim Kathy?

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I daresay from our perspective, being neighbors of both Pike and Theta Chi, that the Pike/Theta Chi animosity in the late '80s ran strong. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the perpetrators specifically put the victim in your house in an attempt to get you guys kicked off campus.

I always assumed that was the case.

 

[Grad91]

"But let's move this forward. Which houses currently on or off-campus are the most likely place for a Penn State-like scenario to occur? It would be nice to alert the chapter advisors if similar conduct may be occurring under their noses."

It's really hard to say. It can't be predicted. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there was a "train" in Landis hall in 1981. Not fraternity related.

Guys passing out drunk happened many times at every party. One guy I know passed out before Christmas, and they shaved his eyebrows, stripped him down and took compromising pictures of him with a giant candy cane stick up at his butt. Nobody every thought those pictures would be posted on Facebook, and fortunately those weren't , but I have had a few 1980s pictures show up on FB and my kids saw them.

You really did not want to pass out in public at a fraternity party. The same went for women.

I think the difference is whether they were forced to drink and whether they had physically sustained an injury. We used to line our staircase with mattresses and slide down to the bottom sitting in a box and wearing a football helmet. The landing was covered with mattresses. No recipe for disaster there......It was great fun back then.

If the universities weren't so intolerant of drinking, this could have been avoided because the brothers would have called an ambulance because they didn't need to fear punishment. Drinking used to occur on campus and people could walk. Now it occurs off campus and people drive. This is solely due to the PC police at universities. Uber has made a huge difference here though.

It not unlike the woman who leaves her baby at the firestation instead of dumping it in a dumpster. She doesn't need to fear prosecution for doing the right thing. 18-20 year olds are going to drink in college no matter the policy. When I was at FSU, the drinking age was 18-19, and we would not have feared punishment.

I don't mean to diminish from the tragedy of this or the poor response from the brother's at all. However if they did not fear punishment, the situation may have been avoided.

Grad 91, did/do you know the victim Kathy?

I can't recall the victim's name from the IFC investigation. The Kathy I knew was Kathy Oltarsh, Danny's sister. She was never the same after this incident.

 

[jackdanielsandcokefsu]

I can't recall the victim's name from the IFC investigation. The Kathy I knew was Kathy Oltarsh, Danny's sister. She was never the same after this incident.

I believe Kathy ended up dying in a car accident years back