Vaccine mandates for student athletes

[chumleynole]

Your logic is calling others whack jobs or irrational. Once again, I am not anti vax for anyone but myself. I am against covid vaccine mandates.

This thread I believe was about mandates for football players. I have said before I am not necessarily for a mandate for all. Football players can opt out of the vaccine by not playing football. Employees can quit a job if their employees mandate vaccines. Yes there are plenty of wack jobs that are against the vaccine. Please look at couple of posts above where one poster has posted information from a site that is in the disinformation business. There are plenty of people with your point of view that probably believe I have lizard blood. They listen to guys like Alex Jones who is a verifiable Wack job. The guy said Sandy Hook was fake and when he was sued his defense was he was crazy. They still listen to guys like this. These kind of people along with some other mainstream idiots are the ones that are creating a lot of the vaccine hesitancy. You know who else is? Our enemies. Again, I am referring to football players and the general idea that this vaccine is safe and effective and what might render it otherwise is the unwillingness of the hesitant to get the shot. Personally I think not getting the vaccine is unpatriotic. That is my opinion and I know yours will differ.

 

[fsufool]

99.999%? I like those odds. Likely gets better when you consider 96,000+ of the 600,000 total "covid deaths" involve those with diabetes as a contributing cause, another 12,000+ involve intentional/unintentional injuries, poisonings, etc. (should those even be considered "covid deaths"?) Another 21,000+ involve alzheimers, another 58,000 involve dimentia, another 25,000 involve obesity. I don't have any of those issues. And I'm not over 70.

66,000 ischemic heart disease
45,000 cardiac arrhythmia
30,000 malignant neoplasms (cancer)

 

[chumleynole]

66,000 ischemic heart disease
45,000 cardiac arrhythmia
30,000 malignant neoplasms (cancer)

This is another deflection. Show me where this is out of line with the normal attribution of cause of death. I had a friend hat had auto immune issues causing anemia. She was on steroids. She died from an infection that due to the steroid use she unable to fight off. The cause of death was sepsis. I am sure many people that die from heart disease have other comorbidities. This is just an attempt to muddy the water.

 

[SteveT1]

This thread I believe was about mandates for football players. I have said before I am not necessarily for a mandate for all. Football players can opt out of the vaccine by not playing football. Employees can quit a job if their employees mandate vaccines. Yes there are plenty of wack jobs that are against the vaccine. Please look at couple of posts above where one poster has posted information from a site that is in the disinformation business. There are plenty of people with your point of view that probably believe I have lizard blood. They listen to guys like Alex Jones who is a verifiable Wack job. The guy said Sandy Hook was fake and when he was sued his defense was he was crazy. They still listen to guys like this. These kind of people along with some other mainstream idiots are the ones that are creating a lot of the vaccine hesitancy. You know who else is our enemies. Again, I am referring to football players and the general idea that this vaccine is safe and effective and what might render it otherwise is the unwillingness of hesitant to get the shot. Personally I think not getting the vaccine is unpatriotic. That is my opinion and I know yours will differ.

People like Kamala Harris said they wouldn’t trust the vaccine. Whack jobs.
A lot of people with your view point nodded in agreement with her back then.
For players, it should be up to them. They earned the scholarship, were admitted to school, enrolled… now you want to tell them there’s another condition of their scholarship unrelated to football? Seems absurd. These guys don’t face much risk of death from this virus. They should have the choice. Could you imagine if the FDA doesn’t approve of the vaccine? I don’t expect a political branch to come to that conclusion at this point, but suppose they did and we force a bunch of healthy 18-22 yearolds to take an Emergency Use Authorization vaccine—on a non emergency basis—or they lose their scholarship/ability to play the sport they worked hard to play at an elite level at the school of their dreams. Yeah, not forcing them at all. What a choice.

 

[SteveT1]

This is another deflection. Show me where this is out of line with the normal attribution of cause of death. I had a friend hat had auto immune issues causing anemia. She was on steroids. She died from an infection that due to the steroid use she unable to fight off. The cause of death was anemia. I am sure many people that die from heart disease have other comorbidities. This is just an attempt to muddy the water.

What about a self inflicted gunshot wound to the head? Covid or not? Because it’s in the death total.

 

[chumleynole]

66,000 ischemic heart disease
45,000 cardiac arrhythmia
30,000 malignant neoplasms (cancer)

Years from now when people can study what the toll of this virus really was, I expect the death toll to go up significantly. There are far more people that died from this when it was never diagnosed then attributed to Covid in error. By the way the death toll is in line with the excess death total. The number of excess deaths in 2020 almost exactly matched the death total attributed to Covid. I also think that the safeguards put in place for the pandemic has decreased deaths that would normally occur from other causes.

 

[SteveT1]

Years from now when people can study what the toll of this virus really was, I expect the death toll to go up significantly. There are far more people that died from this when it was never diagnosed then attributed to Covid in error. By the way the death toll is in line with the excess death total. The number of excess deaths in 2020 almost exactly matched the death total attributed to Covid. I also think that the safeguards put in place for the pandemic has decreased deaths that would normally occur from other causes.

Link? Data? Evidence? Because it’s nonsense without it.

 

[fsufool]

Years from now when people can study what the toll of this virus really was, I expect the death toll to go up significantly. There are far more people that died from this when it was never diagnosed then attributed to Covid in error. By the way the death toll is in line with the excess death total. The number of excess deaths in 2020 almost exactly matched the death total attributed to Covid. I also think that the safeguards put in place for the pandemic has decreased deaths that would normally occur from other causes.

There will be 3 categories; death with Covid, death from Covid and Covid initiated deaths where the cause was from multiple factors. This gives you a rough estimate of the cost of Covid, but conflates some issues because of the age of those dying. How do you categorize NY nursing home deaths after folks with Covid were transferred in? How do you categorize those that died because we didn't know how to treat them and we had inexperienced doc's putting them on high PEEP ventilator settings? Or suicides, how are they categorized. Or the large amount of opiate ODs that caused deaths? Or the amount of advanced Cancers that will be showing up in the near future, because people were too scared to go get a check up?

There has been a huge toll on our society, no doubt from the virus and the way this was handled. There will be, hopefully, a big learning curve from this too, which will help us in the future.

 

[chumleynole]

Link? Data? Evidence? Because it’s nonsense without it.

Does this work for you. There is plenty out there.




May 2021, following an analysis by the IHME that the true count of fatalities due to COVID-19 in United States was above 900,000, Anthony Fauci said that "no doubt" there was undercounting of COVID-19 deaths.[3] A study published in The Lancet in September 2020 also pointed to significant undercounting.[50][51] Undercounting has been reported from Virginia[52] and California.[53] A 2021 scandal involving New York authorities involves undercounting or an alleged cover-up of COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes in 2020.

 

[chumleynole]

People like Kamala Harris said they wouldn’t trust the vaccine. Whack jobs.
A lot of people with your view point nodded in agreement with her back then.
For players, it should be up to them. They earned the scholarship, were admitted to school, enrolled… now you want to tell them there’s another condition of their scholarship unrelated to football? Seems absurd. These guys don’t face much risk of death from this virus. They should have the choice. Could you imagine if the FDA doesn’t approve of the vaccine? I don’t expect a political branch to come to that conclusion at this point, but suppose they did and we force a bunch of healthy 18-22 yearolds to take an Emergency Use Authorization vaccine—on a non emergency basis—or they lose their scholarship/ability to play the sport they worked hard to play at an elite level at the school of their dreams. Yeah, not forcing them at all. What a choice.

I never nodded with agreement. People with my point of view never agreed with the above. I got the vaccine the second day it was available to my age group. I was hoping it would be made available to essential workers first so I could get it sooner. There is a lot of money invested and at stake with a major college football program. I believe the people in charge have the right to mandate the vaccine considering the players can opt out of playing. I would not take their scholarship away. I am not certain what I would do with their eligibility. The vaccine will get full FDA approval shortly. I might wait until then to mandate it. One thing no one mentions is the effect this virus has had on businesses. Absenteeism due to the virus is wreaking havoc. I have said before that it is my experience that the vast majority of those contracting the virus or at least missing work due to the virus is from the unvaccinated. I will also tell you that based on what I have seen from those that got sick this is a virus everyone should be afraid of. It has made about 40 percent of those I have seen with the virus very sick. I define very sick as many trips to the Dr. and even one or two emergency room treatments. This is far worse then any virus I have seen in the last 5 decades. It is also apparent that overall health has an impact on who gets really sick. Having said that, there are young healthy people that get hit pretty hard. This last go round has been the worst. I have access to a database of about 500 people. I would guess at the moment there are between 10 to 15 percent of the workforce out with Covid. Since the virus started probably about 40 percent have missed time due to Covid. No one has died. There have been a handful that were close. Two I know of likely will never work again. If I were to include obesity and if my work place is typical I would guess that 30 to 50 percent of Americans have some sort of comorbidity.

 

[SteveT1]

Does this work for you. There is plenty out there.




May 2021, following an analysis by the IHME that the true count of fatalities due to COVID-19 in United States was above 900,000, Anthony Fauci said that "no doubt" there was undercounting of COVID-19 deaths.[3] A study published in The Lancet in September 2020 also pointed to significant undercounting.[50][51] Undercounting has been reported from Virginia[52] and California.[53] A 2021 scandal involving New York authorities involves undercounting or an alleged cover-up of COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes in 2020.

Fauci had no doubt about many things he was wrong about. Many covid deaths were never diagnosed, but suspected and therefore included in the count. Per cdc guidelines. Will read the Lancet study. Thanks for linking.

 

[chumleynole]

Fauci had no doubt about many things he was wrong about. Many covid deaths were never diagnosed, but suspected and therefore included in the count. Per cdc guidelines. Will read the Lancet study. Thanks for linking.

For what it is worth, I do not believe not wanting to get the vaccine because of health concerns down the road is irrational. I disagree with the choice but I would not label a person with that viewpoint crazy or a wack job. I also believe there is an argument against the forced vaccination carried out by government mandate. Again, I might .disagree but it would be an interesting debate. I find exception to fringe information/disinformation and the anecdotal evidence used to defame the vaccine itself. Those that supply that information start with a certain set of beliefs and then seek out the people and information that agree with those beliefs. They are on social media that supports that alternative way of thinking and they frequently have friends that share the same ideas. I have a brother in law whom I love dearly that fits that description. The video of the Dr at the school board which someone posted is an example. As is the posting of a supposed survey of Docs by AAPS. The belief in either of these two does not represent a rational or objective mind.

 

[chumleynole]

There will be 3 categories; death with Covid, death from Covid and Covid initiated deaths where the cause was from multiple factors. This gives you a rough estimate of the cost of Covid, but conflates some issues because of the age of those dying. How do you categorize NY nursing home deaths after folks with Covid were transferred in? How do you categorize those that died because we didn't know how to treat them and we had inexperienced doc's putting them on high PEEP ventilator settings? Or suicides, how are they categorized. Or the large amount of opiate ODs that caused deaths? Or the amount of advanced Cancers that will be showing up in the near future, because people were too scared to go get a check up?

There has been a huge toll on our society, no doubt from the virus and the way this was handled. There will be, hopefully, a big learning curve from this too, which will help us in the future.

By the way, I am a year past due for a coloscopy because of the virus. The facilities did not operate until just recently. They are back up and running but with this current surge they are putting off the routine ones for the people who are more at risk. I am not unhappy. I would probably use any excuse to put this procedure off.

 

[SteveT1]

For what it is worth, I do not believe not wanting to get the vaccine because of health concerns down the road is irrational. I disagree with the choice but I would not label a person with that viewpoint crazy or a wack job. I also believe there is an argument against the forced vaccination carried out by government mandate. Again, I might .disagree but it would be an interesting debate. I find exception to fringe information/disinformation and the anecdotal evidence used to defame the vaccine itself. Those that supply that information start with a certain set of beliefs and then seek out the people and information that agree with those beliefs. They are on social media that supports that alternative way of thinking and they frequently have friends that share the same ideas. I have a brother in law whom I love dearly that fits that description. The video of the Dr at the school board which someone posted is an example. As is the posting of a supposed survey of Docs by AAPS. The belief in either of these two does not represent a rational or objective mind.

I don’t know if the guy at the school board is right or wrong, but I’m open to either. I find troubling the idea that we’re going to force this vaccine on those with little risk of serious illness or death. Not sure if you saw the breakdown in vaccine hesitancy, but very few are extreme beliefs.

 

[chumleynole]

I don’t know if the guy at the school board is right or wrong, but I’m open to either. I find troubling the idea that we’re going to force this vaccine on those with little risk of serious illness or death. Not sure if you saw the breakdown in vaccine hesitancy, but very few are extreme beliefs.

The guy on the video has been widely discredited. You can make a decision however you want. In terms of vaccine hesitancy I will give you my opinion based on personal observation of a workforce I am familiar with. The largest number made up their mind based on ideological reasons and a distrust in our current national leadership. Very little thought went into their decision. A few of these of these people would espouse all kind of conspiracy theories including the notion of the chip. Fortunately just a few of those. These are mostly blue collar type workers whom I have a good relationship with. I do not make my personal opinions known to them.

 

[MIKE_G]

People like Kamala Harris said they wouldn’t trust the vaccine. Whack jobs.

False. She said she wouldn't trust Trump's word that the vaccine were safe, but would wait for credible sources of information (i.e. doctors, scientists). This was before the vaccine was approved, when Trump was encouraging the FDA to speed up the approval process ahead of the election. Context is very important.
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/

 

[SteveT1]

The guy on the video has been widely discredited. You can make a decision however you want. In terms of vaccine hesitancy I will give you my opinion based on personal observation of a workforce I am familiar with. The largest number made up their mind based on ideological reasons and a distrust in our current national leadership. Very little thought went into their decision. A few of these of these people would espouse all kind of conspiracy theories including the notion of the chip. Fortunately just a few of those. These are mostly blue collar type workers whom I have a good relationship with. I do not make my personal opinions known to them.

Please point me to some evidence discrediting the guy.

 

[chumleynole]

Please point me to some evidence discrediting the guy.

Here is one. Just google it.

Fact-checking Dr. Stock’s COVID-19 claims at the Mt. Vernon school board meeting

A school board meeting in Hancock County, Indiana has gone viral after a doctor made a lot of COVID-19 claims that don't match recommendations from the CDC and ISDH.

www.wthr.com

 

[AllNoles]

99.999%? I like those odds. Likely gets better when you consider 96,000+ of the 600,000 total "covid deaths" involve those with diabetes as a contributing cause, another 12,000+ involve intentional/unintentional injuries, poisonings, etc. (should those even be considered "covid deaths"?) Another 21,000+ involve alzheimers, another 58,000 involve dimentia, another 25,000 involve obesity. I don't have any of those issues. And I'm not over 70.

Where are those numbers found?

 

[AllNoles]

Here is one. Just google it.

Fact-checking Dr. Stock’s COVID-19 claims at the Mt. Vernon school board meeting

A school board meeting in Hancock County, Indiana has gone viral after a doctor made a lot of COVID-19 claims that don't match recommendations from the CDC and ISDH.

www.wthr.com

Just as a point of logic, when the guy is pointing out the CDC is full of shit, of course the CDC is going to disagree.

 

[SteveT1]

Where are those numbers found?

Table 3, or #4 in table of contents https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

 

[chumleynole]

Just as a point of logic, when the guy is pointing out the CDC is full of shit, of course the CDC is going to disagree.

There are tons of Doctors - not associated with the CDC saying what this Dr. said was nonsense. The logical conclusion is this guy is crackers.

 

[AllNoles]

There are tons of Doctors - not associated with the CDC saying what this Dr. said was nonsense. The logical conclusion is this guy is crackers.

I’m just talking about the text of the tweet.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

I am not sure a state is required to allow free access to citizens of other states in emergency situations. However requiring a vaccination to enter is not closing the borders. Did further research and I was correct. In court cases upheld by the Supreme Court states can close its borders to citizens of other states using their emergency powers.

Wait, so we could have kept all of the New Yorkers out of Florida 30-40-50 years ago by invoking “emergency powers”? Damn….someone screwed up.

 

[GbrNole]

Ok complain about the AMA. The AAPS intentionally spreads disinformation. Not a credible source. In fact if you read their material and put any stock in the info provided it is clear that you are not objective to the truth and only interested in reinforcing a false narrative. I will not discuss this point any further with you because someone who relies on this type of info or even reads it, let alone posts it, is not a rational person. There is nothing more frustrating then entering into a debate with someone who is irrational. I cannot debate someone to make things up.

you are completely incapable of having a discussion with anyone that doesn't fall lockstep with your opinion aren't you.

lets make a couple of things very clear here:

1) i believe that physicians (and other medical staff) that are regularly forward facing with COVID patients should get vaccinated.
2) i believe that if those people don't want to get vaccinated it's their choice and they should adequately protect themselves from infection.
3) you made an absolute claim that i provided an alternate data point for. i could care less about the politics of the AMA or the AAPS. i go to a physician to be made healthy, not be lectured to.
4) the AMA survey provided absolutely zero information for confidence level or margin of error but you were happy to intimate that it meant 950,000 physicians have been fully vaccinated.

let's step back to your assumption where you are quite certain that 950,000 physicians have been vaccinated. to get a statistically relevant survey from 301 respondents with a reasonable 5% margin of error, the population proportion would need to be 96%. that is highly unreasonable for a supposedly blind survey. the AMA would need to know the answer before sending out the survey.

medscape had run a similar survey just a month prior to the AMA survey that found approximately 75% of physicians were fully vaccinated. if the prior medscape numbers had been used as a basis for the population proportion, the AMA would need to survey nearly 1,500 people to achieve your confidence level.

 

[fsufool]

This is another deflection. Show me where this is out of line with the normal attribution of cause of death. I had a friend hat had auto immune issues causing anemia. She was on steroids. She died from an infection that due to the steroid use she unable to fight off. The cause of death was sepsis. I am sure many people that die from heart disease have other comorbidities. This is just an attempt to muddy the water.

These were among those deaths that were attributed to Covid.

 

[chumleynole]

These were among those deaths that were attributed to Covid.

If she is diagnosed with covid it would be determined by the post mortem. Interestingly she died because her lungs were full of fluid.

 

[SteveT1]

If she is diagnosed with covid it would be determined by the post mortem. Interestingly she died because her lungs were full of fluid.

That isn’t how cdc guidance was structured for covid as a cause of death determination. If they were positive with covid within x amount of days of death, covid is a cause. If covid symptoms but no covid positive test prior to death, can still count as covid positive. That’s the guidance I read on cdc website last year. The numbers are inflated, at least since May 2020. Willing to concede there are likely hundreds or thousands more from Nov 2019 - March 2020 that weren’t counted.

 

[chumleynole]

you are completely incapable of having a discussion with anyone that doesn't fall lockstep with your opinion aren't you.

lets make a couple of things very clear here:

1) i believe that physicians (and other medical staff) that are regularly forward facing with COVID patients should get vaccinated.
2) i believe that if those people don't want to get vaccinated it's their choice and they should adequately protect themselves from infection.
3) you made an absolute claim that i provided an alternate data point for. i could care less about the politics of the AMA or the AAPS. i go to a physician to be made healthy, not be lectured to.
4) the AMA survey provided absolutely zero information for confidence level or margin of error but you were happy to intimate that it meant 950,000 physicians have been fully vaccinated.

let's step back to your assumption where you are quite certain that 950,000 physicians have been vaccinated. to get a statistically relevant survey from 301 respondents with a reasonable 5% margin of error, the population proportion would need to be 96%. that is highly unreasonable for a supposedly blind survey. the AMA would need to know the answer before sending out the survey.

medscape had run a similar survey just a month prior to the AMA survey that found approximately 75% of physicians were fully vaccinated. if the prior medscape numbers had been used as a basis for the population proportion, the AMA would need to survey nearly 1,500 people to achieve your confidence level.

I cannot have a debate with fact deniers. I actually did debate in both high school and college. Your arguments would be disqualified on their merits. Anecdotal evidence (one doctor) is not evidence. However you would make that point with your one Dr. and I would site about 10 that disagreed. You are posting information from a site that is labeled a disinformation site and believes in all kind of wacked out ideas. The AMA study may be flawed but I doubt it (The AMA is a very resected society) because it is light years more highly respected the AAPS. Yeah I have trouble debating with people that have no regard for logic, facts and peruse sites that have that same disregard.

 

[chumleynole]

That isn’t how cdc guidance was structured for covid as a cause of death determination. If they were positive with covid within x amount of days of death, covid is a cause. If covid symptoms but no covid positive test prior to death, can still count as covid positive. That’s the guidance I read on cdc website last year. The numbers are inflated, at least since May 2020. Willing to concede there are likely hundreds or thousands more from Nov 2019 - March 2020 that weren’t counted.

Guys, I do not think she had Covid. I was simply illustrating how other deaths had underlying causes. She died of sepsis. The anemia indirectly caused it. If someone is diabetic and dies of a heart attack or a stroke the heart attack or stroke are the cause of death. When a person who has cancer gets covid and dies. The cause of death is covid. This is not the big deal that people are making it. Look at excess deaths. That is where you will see the toll of this virus.

 

[fsufool]

If she is diagnosed with covid it would be determined by the post mortem. Interestingly she died because her lungs were full of fluid.

Lots of older people die of pneumonia, whether because of the virus or some other cause.

 

[GbrNole]

I cannot have a debate with fact deniers. I actually did debate in both high school and college. Your arguments would be disqualified on their merits. Anecdotal evidence (one doctor) is not evidence. However you would make that point with your one Dr. and I would site about 10 that disagreed. You are posting information from a site that is labeled a disinformation site and believes in all kind of wacked out ideas. The AMA study may be flawed but I doubt it (The AMA is a very resected society) because it is light years more highly respected the AAPS. Yeah I have trouble debating with people that have no regard for logic, facts and peruse sites that have that same disregard.

you are talking in circles now. this has nothing to do with anything more than you made an outlandish absolute claim that 950,000 physicians are fully vaxxed and my initial response to that was an alternate data point. you are deflecting away that.

i very rarely use data from sites other than the government agencies because people like yourself won't accept it for what it was intended, that just maybe your claim wasn't representative of the absolute number you stated.

if you had said the AMA put out a survey where 96% of respondents were fully vaxxed and that could mean up to 950,000 doctors are vaxxed, i wouldn't blink, i'd actually shrug and buy that, but instead you're fueling on an assumption and presenting it as a fact. you are guilty of your own name calling.

 

[chumleynole]

you are talking in circles now. this has nothing to do with anything more than you made an outlandish absolute claim that 950,000 physicians are fully vaxxed and my initial response to that was an alternate data point. you are deflecting away that.

i very rarely use data from sites other than the government agencies because people like yourself won't accept it for what it was intended, that just maybe your claim wasn't representative of the absolute number you stated.

if you had said the AMA put out a survey where 96% of respondents were fully vaxxed and that could mean up to 950,000 doctors are vaxxed, i wouldn't blink, i'd actually shrug and buy that, but instead you're fueling on an assumption and presenting it as a fact. you are guilty of your own name calling.

I am not a statistician. Are you? I do not know what the margin for error is. However the AMA has been around for a long time and is very respected. They published their survey for all to see. I do not believe they would have done so without vetting it for accuracy. Here it is. If you have a problem take it up with them.

https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2021-06/physician-vaccination-study-topline-report.pdf

 

[GbrNole]

I am not a statistician. Are you? I do not know what the margin for error is. However the AMA has been around for a long time and is very respected. They published their survey for all to see. I do not believe they would have done so without vetting it for accuracy. Here it is. If you have a problem take it up with them.

https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2021-06/physician-vaccination-study-topline-report.pdf

i have already read the study. the study provides no statistical representation whatsoever other than the averages of its own results. i gave you the statistical data points required in my prior post for you to have your essential 100% confidence level, that in the area of 96% of all physicians are vaccinated.

the margin of error for the AMA's study is probably ~10-11% based on 301 respondents. it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if 850,000 or more doctors have been fully vaxxed. i'm just not going to create an absolute from it and then present it as a fact to backhandedly call people stupid.

 

[chumleynole]

i have already read the study. the study provides no statistical representation whatsoever other than the averages of its own results. i gave you the statistical data points required in my prior post for you to have your essential 100% confidence level, that in the area of 96% of all physicians are vaccinated.

the margin of error for the AMA's study is probably ~10-11% based on 301 respondents. it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if 850,000 or more doctors have been fully vaxxed. i'm just not going to create an absolute from it and then present it as a fact to backhandedly call people stupid.

of the absolute number you stated.

if you had said the AMA put out a survey where 96% of respondents were fully vaxxed and that could mean up to 950,000 doctors are vaxxed, i wouldn't blink, i'd actually shrug and buy that, but instead you're fueling on an assumption and presenting it as a fact. you are guilty of your own name calling.

I did not site the survey when I gave those numbers. Those numbers are widely reported in other news articles. I did not know that the AMA did the survey until you put up one from a disinformation website with different numbers. Of course then I was forced to research where that 96 percent figure came from. Please show me where a statistician has analyzed this for margin of error or is this in your field of expertise. Otherwise I will continue to rely on this survey. However this is a minor point which is another tactic people use in a losing argument. Are the vaccines safe and effective. The answer to that question based on the evidence is yes. Whether we should mandate them to college athletes is the other question. You can disagree but not based on the efficacy or the potential side effects of the vaccine. I said that I debated in high school and college. This subject would never be chosen as a topic. When you debate you have to be able to debate both sides of the argument. There needs to be more or less an equal amount evidence on both sides. This one is very one sided.

 

[GbrNole]

I did not site the survey when I gave those numbers. Those numbers are widely reported in other news articles. I did not know that the AMA did the survey until you put up one from a disinformation website with different numbers. Of course then I was forced to research where that 96 percent figure came from. Please show me where a statistician has analyzed this for margin of error or is this in your field of expertise. Otherwise I will continue to rely on this survey. However this is a minor point which is another tactic people use in a losing argument. Are the vaccines safe and effective. The answer to that question based on the evidence is yes. Whether we should mandate them to college athletes is the other question. You can disagree but not based on the efficacy or the potential side effects of the vaccine. I said that I debated in high school and college. This subject would never be chosen as a topic. When you debate you have to be able to debate both sides of the argument. There needs to be more or less an equal amount evidence on both sides. This one is very one sided.

actually i put up the AMA survey first. i added the link, you didn't have to research where the 96% figure came from, you just simply needed to click my link.

in response to my post linking the AMA survey you said:

" That is how all of these things are done. Not being a smart-aleck but did you ever take a stats class in college. A statistician probably set up the survey and told them how many they had to survey. There is also probably a margin for error in the survey as well "

rather than shooting off at the hip maybe you should just take a moment to read what is being linked? the only fact you need to be cognizant of is the fact that the study provides no notes or footnotes with respect to any statistical analysis representative of its member physicians let alone all physicians. heck you even correctly note that there should be a margin for error but none was provided.

i'm of course making an assumption that you didn't read the link but i don't think that is unreasonable in light of you later posting the same AMA study for me to read...

 

[chumleynole]

actually i put up the AMA survey first. i added the link, you didn't have to research where the 96% figure came from, you just simply needed to click my link.

in response to my post linking the AMA survey you said:

" That is how all of these things are done. Not being a smart-aleck but did you ever take a stats class in college. A statistician probably set up the survey and told them how many they had to survey. There is also probably a margin for error in the survey as well "

rather than shooting off at the hip maybe you should just take a moment to read what is being linked? the only fact you need to be cognizant of is the fact that the study provides no notes or footnotes with respect to any statistical analysis representative of its member physicians let alone all physicians. heck you even correctly note that there should be a margin for error but none was provided.

i'm of course making an assumption that you didn't read the link but i don't think that is unreasonable in light of you later posting the same AMA study for me to read...

The 96 percent figure is being widely accepted and reported. I am ok with you not agreeing but when you use a fake news site that believes things like HIV/AIDs being a hoax, I am going to call you on it. This vaccine is safe and effective. The only evidence presented otherwise is anecdotal or highly suspicious or both. Everything else that was brought up are minor point arguments to deflect and muddy the water. Nearly 700,000 deaths have been attributed to the virus. The reality is that this number is probably an under representation of the true number. I would not object to a mandated vaccination of scholar athletes because I do not want to have to forfeit games. I also want to slow the spread of the virus overall. That is why I want everyone to get vaccinated or at least as many as possible. Mutations occur when the virus spreads widely. I do not want this thing to get worse. If 100 percent of our team is vaccinated we will probably not be forced to forfeit games. If all are not and games are cancelled we will probably have to forfeit. If players object they can sit the season out. Keep the scholarship. Is that tough? Maybe, these are tough times we are living in now.

 

[GbrNole]

The 96 percent figure is being widely accepted and reported. I am ok with you not agreeing but when you use a fake news site that believes things like HIV/AIDs being a hoax, I am going to call you on it. This vaccine is safe and effective. The only evidence presented otherwise is anecdotal or highly suspicious or both. Everything else that was brought up are minor point arguments to deflect and muddy the water. Nearly 700,000 deaths have been attributed to the virus. The reality is that this number is probably an under representation of the true number. I would not object to a mandated vaccination of scholar athletes because I do not want to have to forfeit games. I also want to slow the spread of the virus overall. That is why I want everyone to get vaccinated or at least as many as possible. Mutations occur when the virus spreads widely. I do not want this thing to get worse. If 100 percent of our team is vaccinated we will probably not be forced to forfeit games. If all are not and games are cancelled we will probably have to forfeit. If players object they can sit the season out. Keep the scholarship. Is that tough? Maybe, these are tough times we are living in now.

I think you may be conflating me with other conversations you have had in this thread?

i called out solely the claim of 950,000 doctors vaccinated as it was presented as fact.

i am not going to defend AAPS, i disagree with many if not most of their stances, in particular their stance on vax linked autism, much like i disagree with some of the positions that AMA has taken. AAPS was referenced simply because it's an association of several thousand member physicians and provided an alternate data point since you had already rejected the AMA study that i first posted.

i would have posted the medscape poll but it sits behind a pay wall so is not accessible for most.

 

[NoleOne]

Odds much higher, especially for under 50 and no underlying issues. But we all know that.

They just put my 49 year old buddy on a ventilator. Former college athlete. Unvaccinated.

 

[Dhersh]

Covid is unlikely to pose a serious threat to the United States.Masks are ineffective. Masks are effective. Vaccines allow you to go back to normal. Mask even with vaccine. Wear two masks. I’m just an expert, not an economist.

Ok let's break this down.

Masks are ineffective - true. Masks alone are ineffective at stopping you from acquiring the virus.

Masks are effective - true. Masks alone are effective at slowing transmission of the virus.

Vaccines allow you to go back to normal - true. Vaccines often help things get back to normal. They would have ended a worldwide pandemic. But you can't not take the vaccine then expect the vaccine to work. It's like saying seatbelts don't save lives because no one puts them on.

Mask even with vaccine - the people who are arguing dude is wrong about this are the same ones arguing that vaccines don't lower transmissibility, so.... all those people are saying they are wrong?

Covid is unlikely to pose a serious threat to the United States - I think everyone agreed it posed a serious threat.

So what's the problem here again?