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Where does she fall on the crazy/hot line?

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Fijimn

Veteran Seminole Insider
May 7, 2008
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Michelle Carter is on trial in Mass. for sending numerous texts encouraging her boyfriend to commit suicide, which he finally did by carbon monoxide inhalation. Some of texts are in the article. I have empathy for the victim's family, however, the "lol" in this the text exchange somewhat sums up millennials...

Carter: DO YOU HAVE A GENERATOR
Decedent: not yet lol

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnas...read-testimony?utm_term=.ucL67l3AN#.tmelWqOEp

sub-buzz-2911-1496870764-4.jpg
 
Whoa, that girl is a sociopath. Scary. She's going to be in prison for a few years and then back out to society.
 
She'll get the gender discount if convicted, probation and ordered into therapy. She's heartless and cold, not only talking him into killing himself but listening in while it happened..
 
I think what this girl did is despicable, disgusting just flat out cruel, but I don't see where the criminal charges are stemming from. I know a retired rescue worker in NYC who I have heard say on several occasions anytime they had a potential suicide jumper they would always be a crowd around with many of them calling the jumper a coward, chicken, telling him he had nothing to live for and daring him to jump. Yet there was never any criminal charges brought against anyone.
Here the guy was an adult and she was still a minor. NOt sure how this can warrant charges(something I do agree with BTW) but other cases with police and rescue personal on the scene there are never any charges brought.
 
divinnole said:
I think what this girl did is despicable, disgusting just flat out cruel, but I don't see where the criminal charges are stemming from. I know a retired rescue worker in NYC who I have heard say on several occasions anytime they had a potential suicide jumper they would always be a crowd around with many of them calling the jumper a coward, chicken, telling him he had nothing to live for and daring him to jump. Yet there was never any criminal charges brought against anyone.
Here the guy was an adult and she was still a minor. NOt sure how this can warrant charges(something I do agree with BTW) but other cases with police and rescue personal on the scene there are never any charges brought.
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Passing bystandards/ hecklers who are annoyed that traffic is being held up etc are a little different than one who strategically puts a plan together as to how they will do it, and then encourage the person to finish the job even when they are clearly not wanting to complete, and then goes around to friends claiming to take credit for the death.

I understand what she did isn't the same as straight up murderer, but what she did should be considered criminal.
 
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Fijimn said:
Michelle Carter is on trial in Mass. for sending numerous texts encouraging her boyfriend to commit suicide, which he finally did by carbon monoxide inhalation. Some of texts are in the article. I have empathy for the victim's family, however, the "lol" in this the text exchange somewhat sums up millennials...

Carter: DO YOU HAVE A GENERATOR
Decedent: not yet lol

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnas...read-testimony?utm_term=.ucL67l3AN#.tmelWqOEp

sub-buzz-2911-1496870764-4.jpg
Click to expand...
Not at all hot. High forehead like a neanderthal chick
 
I think she'll win on appeal. I'm not saying she isn't despicable as she's as horrible as they come. However, I don't know that morality is something that can be really judged as a criminal act. Can it be proven he wouldn't have actually done what he did without her text messages? Dude was obviously messed up and needed help.

If she is guilty then we start getting into the territory of no responsibility. All one would have to argue is someone kept telling me to do something so I did. Therefore, nothing can be my fault.

I don't like it but I don't see this ruling standing up in the long run.
 
Random_John said:
I think she'll win on appeal. I'm not saying she isn't despicable as she's as horrible as they come. However, I don't know that morality is something that can be really judged as a criminal act. Can it be proven he wouldn't have actually done what he did without her text messages? Dude was obviously messed up and needed help.

If she is guilty then we start getting into the territory of no responsibility. All one would have to argue is someone kept telling me to do something so I did. Therefore, nothing can be my fault.

I don't like it but I don't see this ruling standing up in the long run.
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Do you think she has some responsibility to at least get him some help or stop him from killing himself? She didn't turn on the car, but sure enough she did tell him to kill himself repeatedly.
 
ericram said:
Do you think she has some responsibility to at least get him some help or stop him from killing himself?
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In my opinion, no she doesn't. He was his own person, and she hers. She wasn't his "keeper" and obligated to say nice things to him.

A story (related, in my opinion):

In college I had a roommate who played football and made decent grades his first year. His second year he started staying out all night drinking and partying. It started impacting his football and his grades. When I was in the room he'd wake up and ask me if he should go to class or practice. At first I reinforced that he should get up and go to class, or go to practice. After a while though, I recognized that a) he really didn't want me to tell him to get up, and b) it's not my job to motivate him to get out of bed, make better life choices, etc. So I changed and started telling him what he wanted to hear. Should he go to class? "Nah man, you should go ahead back to sleep". Should he go to practice? "No, you don't need practice today!" At the end of the second year his grades had dropped enough that he wasn't able to play football any longer. He quit school and moved back home.

Am I responsible for him failing his classes, becoming ineligible to play ball, and quitting school? Not even a little bit. I took care of my life, it was his responsibility to take care of his. I didn't force him to make the choices she did, and this weird chick didn't force that kid to kill himself.

Anyway, that's my "NDallasRuss is an ahole" position on this.
 
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NDallasRuss said:
In my opinion, no she doesn't. He was his own person, and she hers. She wasn't his "keeper" and obligated to say nice things to him.

A story (related, in my opinion):

In college I had a roommate who played football and made decent grades his first year. His second year he started staying out all night drinking and partying. It started impacting his football and his grades. When I was in the room he'd wake up and ask me if he should go to class or practice. At first I reinforced that he should get up and go to class, or go to practice. After a while though, I recognized that a) he really didn't want me to tell him to get up, and b) it's not my job to motivate him to get out of bed, make better life choices, etc. So I changed and started telling him what he wanted to hear. Should he go to class? "Nah man, you should go ahead back to sleep". Should he go to practice? "No, you don't need practice today!" At the end of the second year his grades had dropped enough that he wasn't able to play football any longer. He quit school and moved back home.

Am I responsible for him failing his classes, becoming ineligible to play ball, and quitting school? Not even a little bit. I took care of my life, it was his responsibility to take care of his. I didn't force him to make the choices she did, and this weird chick didn't force that kid to kill himself.

Anyway, that's my "NDallasRuss is an ahole" position on this.
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Interesting perspective. You also didn't tell your roommate to kill himself on a regular basis.

Guess it will all wash out in the next step, and it is certainly interesting.
 
ericram said:
Interesting perspective. You also didn't tell your roommate to kill himself on a regular basis.
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No, and I wouldn't have - because I'm not that terrible of a person. But being a terrible person isn't the same as being a criminal. I just think that it was up to him to a) kill himself, b) keep hanging out with a chick was always telling him to kill himself, c) listen to her, if that's what finally tipped the scales for him, and d) not solicit help from anyone other than the crazy chick telling him to kill himself.

As was referenced above. What if I continually tell a buddy that he should rob a bank. Over and over I tell him. I even give my opinion on how he could do it. But I never implicate myself, and I don't rob the bank. So am I somehow responsible for that bank robbery? That seems insane to me. If that's the path the courts are going down, then I should be the first to start up a class action lawsuit for the makers of Grand Theft Auto for showing millions of kids how to rob and murder, and glorifying the breaking of countless laws.
 
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NDallasRuss said:
No, and I wouldn't have - because I'm not that terrible of a person. But being a terrible person isn't the same as being a criminal. I just think that it was up to him to a) kill himself, b) keep hanging out with a chick was always telling him to kill himself, c) listen to her, if that's what finally tipped the scales for him, and d) not solicit help from anyone other than the crazy chick telling him to kill himself.

As was referenced above. What if I continually tell a buddy that he should rob a bank. Over and over I tell him. I even give my opinion on how he could do it. But I never implicate myself, and I don't rob the bank. So am I somehow responsible for that bank robbery? That seems insane to me. If that's the path the courts are going down, then I should be the first to start up a class action lawsuit for the makers of Grand Theft Auto for showing millions of kids how to rob and murder, and glorifying the breaking of countless laws.
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This is purely an assumption.

But if you consistently tell a person to rob a bank, or commit any crime, and then provide the plan as to how they should go about committing said crime; and then the person commits crime in the way you told them to do, and tells police they commited crime because of you encouraging and providing the plan as to how to do it.....I'm pretty confident that would make an accomplice to the crime, which is illegal.

No?
 
DanC78 said:
This is purely an assumption.

But if you consistently tell a person to rob a bank, or commit any crime, and then provide the plan as to how they should go about committing said crime; and then the person commits crime in the way you told them to do, and tells police they commited crime because of you encouraging and providing the plan as to how to do it.....I'm pretty confident that would make an accomplice to the crime, which is illegal.

No?
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I believe that "give my opinion on how he could do it" is quite a bit different than "provide the plan as to how they should go about committing said crime"
 
NDallasRuss said:
As was referenced above. What if I continually tell a buddy that he should rob a bank. Over and over I tell him. I even give my opinion on how he could do it. But I never implicate myself, and I don't rob the bank. So am I somehow responsible for that bank robbery? That seems insane to me. If that's the path the courts are going down, then I should be the first to start up a class action lawsuit for the makers of Grand Theft Auto for showing millions of kids how to rob and murder, and glorifying the breaking of countless laws.
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So what is your take on the folks behind the 'blue whale' game?
 
seminole97 said:
So what is your take on the folks behind the 'blue whale' game?
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Admittedly, I've never heard of this before your post. So, of course I did about 10 minutes of internet research. It seems like it's mostly urban legend. The NY Post says they caught some goofball in Russia who supposedly had a smaller real-life group that he was trying to run, but that article doesn't indicate that any of that group's members actually killed themselves. It also doesn't seem like something that's occurred here - although I'm sure there's some other variant/knock-off that some kids are trying to pass off as legit.

But, conceptually? Mostly, I guess my thought is that parents should keep an eye on what their kids are doing online, and that there should be more open and honest communications and expectation-setting. NDallasDaughter knows that she has ZERO online "rights" and that her phone can, and is, taken at any time so we can flip through what she's been up to, see who she's been talking to, ask questions about friends, conversations, etc. Same with her laptop. We caught her deleting a text string with a friend from school and let her know that the next time that she tried to get away with deleting stuff from her phone so we couldn't see it, we'd take her down to WalMart to get her one of those "old people" Cricket phones with three big colored buttons that would only allow her to call me and her mom. This was effective in dissuading her. We also caught someone from her school that she was friends with on Instagram posting Nazi slogans on their feed - so we contacted the school, and it sounds like that kid learned an important lesson. I don't mess around - subtlety can be misunderstood.

Secondly, don't these kids - even teenagers - have to have some level of responsibility for agreeing to participate in some (again, I may be arguing against something that's mostly fictitious) game in which someone you don't know (or even if they do know them) is telling them to do something stupid and harmful? I can only imagine how hard I'd have laughed when I was a kid if someone tried to get me to do something like that. It's one thing to want to "fit in" by wearing certain clothes, or adopting certain slang terms, etc. It's a whole other thing to equate fitting in with cutting yourself, or certainly killing yourself to appease some random internet goofball. Hopefully the kid we're raising is a little more "woke" than to let her self-worth be impacted by someone who has no level of actual importance in her *real* life.
 
NDallasRuss said:
Secondly, don't these kids - even teenagers - have to have some level of responsibility for agreeing to participate in some (again, I may be arguing against something that's mostly fictitious) game in which someone you don't know (or even if they do know them) is telling them to do something stupid and harmful? I can only imagine how hard I'd have laughed when I was a kid if someone tried to get me to do something like that. It's one thing to want to "fit in" by wearing certain clothes, or adopting certain slang terms, etc. It's a whole other thing to equate fitting in with cutting yourself, or certainly killing yourself to appease some random internet goofball. Hopefully the kid we're raising is a little more "woke" than to let her self-worth be impacted by someone who has no level of actual importance in her *real* life.
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Weird isn't it? I don't want to raise socially unacceptable children but I tell my older one that when the situation calls for it, don't be afraid of using certain responses like

"Whatever..."
"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard"
"Go [ ] yourself"

Just not to your mom or me. Or to your boss.
 
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Formerly Rockymtnole said:
Weird isn't it? I don't want to raise socially unacceptable children but I tell my older one that when the situation calls for it, don't be afraid of using certain responses like

"Whatever..."
"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard"
"Go [ ] yourself"

Just not to your mom or me. Or to your boss.
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It seems like such common sense to me. And I feel like we've had enough conversations where the daughter would feel empowered to not simply go along with peer pressure, or some individual trying to get her to do something she knows is bad/dumb/harmful/nonsensical/etc. I guess we never know for sure how kids will react, but we've certainly had open and honest communication with her about these topics, and others that will be relevant as she navigates through her teen years.

I do think that there are some parents who do not get involved at all with their kids when it comes to their phones, the internet, etc, and there's no oversight over what the kids are saying or seeing online. It's kind of a "willful ignorance" thing where maybe the parents don't want to seem "uncool" or micromanaging their kids. Maybe they figure that if the kids live in a small town, that they're somehow protected from a lot of this.

Our school district - while pretty affluent and focused on academic success - seems to have a problem with teen suicide. We keep talking to the kid about it and explaining why kids might feel that's their only/best option, encouraging her to talk to us about any problems she has, or if she starts feeling overwhelmed at school, etc. I'd hope that other parents are having the same conversations, but I don't know if they are. I get the impression that a lot of parents don't like having uncomfortable conversations with their kids. To me those are the ones that are really worth having, and if you give good, honest advice to your kids, you have the opportunity to build up a whole lot of trust with them because they know they can count on you for the truth.

Or maybe I have it all wrong and NDallasDaughter sneaks off at night to sell meth and worship the SlenderMan...
 
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