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“Rust” Shooting Tragedy

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FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor

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What a horrible and senseless tragedy. Will be interesting to see who is prosecuted. The civil suits should also be interesting.

Absolutely crazy to me that there was ANY live ammunition on that set. I read a report that numerous staff members brought their guns, and real ammo, to the desert for “practice shooting” during lulls in the production.

Anxious to see how “Hollywood” responds to this completely avoidable situation.
 
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Where is a good place for the actual details? Ive seen lots of commentary but I still haven’t seen exactly what happened. Was this during filming? Was equipment checked abs ready? Or was this AB picking a gun up and firing it on his own (presumably thinking it was safe).
 
Yeah I didn’t understand why there would EVER be live ammo on a movie set. At first I assumed the woman died from a close range “blank” explosion which I’ve read can kill you. I know Baldwin is a polarizing guy but can’t help but feel horrible for him.
 
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That’s why I’d like to know what happened. If he was following directions then I feel for him. If he was goofing off and killed someone, I feel less for him.
 
AllNoles said:
Where is a good place for the actual details? Ive seen lots of commentary but I still haven’t seen exactly what happened. Was this during filming? Was equipment checked abs ready? Or was this AB picking a gun up and firing it on his own (presumably thinking it was safe).
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Google “Alec Baldwin shooting” and you can find lots of news articles, including stuff about the current criminal investigation.

Baldwin was apparently handed the gun by movie personnel, one of whom supposedly announced the gun was safe. Baldwin relied on that, and shot the gun once. The live bullet killed (penetrated) the camera chick and then hit/injured the producer dude. Interestingly, no film of any of it (supposedly).

The guy who announced the gun was clear later admitted to police that he did not “fully” check the gun. He’s in deep stuff now. There had been prior episodes of, and complaints about, gun safety issues on this set. Sounds like complete idiocy, honestly.
 
The lunacy of having live ammo on a movie set is beyond my understanding. Why take the risk for any reason at all? I think all TV/Movie sets have security guards on duty at all times so a gun can't be needed for any other reason than as part of the storyline or script.
If Baldwin was handed the gun just before the scene by the prop master in charge of these weapons, like many actorshe likely relied on that prop master.

While I have not agreed with some things he has said or done offscreen, I've always liked his acting and the movies he's been in. I understand he is devastated and I sympathize with him.
 
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goldmom said:
The lunacy of having live ammo on a movie set is beyond my understanding. Why take the risk for any reason at all? I think all TV/Movie sets have security guards on duty at all times so a gun can't be needed for any other reason than as part of the storyline or script.
If Baldwin was handed the gun just before the scene by the prop master in charge of these weapons, like many actorshe likely relied on that prop master.

While I have not agreed with some things he has said or done offscreen, I've always liked his acting and the movies he's been in. I understand he is devastated and I sympathize with him.
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Issue for Baldwin is he was also a producer I believe on set so he may have some responsibility as well.
 
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wasn't it something very similar to this that resulted in brandon lee being killed during the filming of the Crow years ago?
 
goldmom said:
The lunacy of having live ammo on a movie set is beyond my understanding. Why take the risk for any reason at all? I think all TV/Movie sets have security guards on duty at all times so a gun can't be needed for any other reason than as part of the storyline or script.
If Baldwin was handed the gun just before the scene by the prop master in charge of these weapons, like many actorshe likely relied on that prop master.

While I have not agreed with some things he has said or done offscreen, I've always liked his acting and the movies he's been in. I understand he is devastated and I sympathize with him.
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Lunacy is a very good word to use; especially in this uttermost finest example in which you so skillfully and artfully share. :) Baldwin is a jerk but no man needs to feel what he's going through right now. Devastated doesn't even begin.... Senseless tragedies will never make sense.
 
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I think what makes it more alarming is that two people were wounded.
It will be interesting to see exactly what happened from a thorough investigation.
 
MagNoleA said:
Lunacy is a very good word to use; especially in this uttermost finest example in which you so skillfully and artfully share. :) Baldwin is a jerk but no man needs to feel what he's going through right now. Devastated doesn't even begin.... Senseless tragedies will never make sense.
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Baldwin is a jackazz. Have always waited for the day he tries to bully the wrong person. Have 0 sympathy for him. My sympathies are 100% with the victims and their families. Not much consolation, but I hope the families clean up in civil court.
 
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Baldwin is now releasing (on TMZ) some self-created “statements” about the tragedy. He “doubts” that the film will be completed. I assume he is vetting with counsel his fairly rambling and philosophical comments. He steered clear of anything resembling a factual narrative.
 
I stand against much of what Baldwin lobbies for. That being said I feel absolutely awful for him assuming this plays out the way the original story appears. Disagreeing with his politics doesn’t make him a murderer. It is pathetic how much of the media is portraying this.
 
I agree his politics shouldn’t be part of this. But I do want to really know what he did wrong. If he’s a producer and responsible for hiring the armorer, it’s on him given the stuff being claimed about her. But I don’t agree with folks who say it was on him for not knowing it was loaded (unless he just picked it up and fired it). I think actors should be able to rely on the experts as long as the actor is following the directions exactly.
 
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AllNoles said:
I agree his politics shouldn’t be part of this. But I do want to really know what he did wrong. If he’s a producer and responsible for hiring the armorer, it’s on him given the stuff being claimed about her. But I don’t agree with folks who say it was on him for not knowing it was loaded (unless he just picked it up and fired it). I think actors should be able to rely on the experts as long as the actor is following the directions exactly.
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Professionally there is likely going to be some culpability. Personally he has to live with taking a life. The two should be separate imo. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy. Meanwhile some are spiking the football.
 
I would not either. But I will say the degree to which he was reckless impacts the level to which I feel bad. If he just picked up a a gun and fired it, I don’t feel as bad for him. I would still feel bad but not nearly as much.
 
I get it. But I don’t feel real bad for people who do reckless stupid things. So if he did that it’s on him. I especially would feel less bad if he was reckless because I can’t stand the anti gun folks who then dont respect guns and act recklessly. But like I said if he was following the directions of experts properly then I feel awful for him.
 
His wife is already loudly predicting that he will have “PTSD, like police officers and military personnel.” Don’t kid yourself: this guy is already very publicly acting out his potential legal defense. He wants to be seen as a victim.

Maybe he is a victim in some sense, but remember that he was also producing this entire film. He wasn’t merely a pay-for-service-actor reading some lines.
 
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AllNoles said:
I get it. But I don’t feel real bad for people who do reckless stupid things. So if he did that it’s on him. I especially would feel less bad if he was reckless because I can’t stand the anti gun folks who then dont respect guns and act recklessly. But like I said if he was following the directions of experts properly then I feel awful for him.
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Your politics again come in to play. Regardless of his stance on guns this is tragic. Using someone who disagrees with you as an “I told you so” in this situation is cheap. This is an accident of epic proportion.
 
No my politics do not. My dislike for hypocrisy is what comes in. I don't care who you are, you don't shoot a gun at anyone or anything unless you intend to cause it harm. The one exception I would make is in a situation like a studio setting and someone is relying on experts as to what they can or should do. If he did that then it's not his fault and I hate any pain he suffers for being in the middle of that. I can't imagine it. But I would not have a lot of sympathy for the most conservative person who points a gun at someone and there is a tragic accident.

I think I have been clear here. It is not about AB. I don't like his politics but he is irrelevant to my life unless I am watching 30 Rock and I love him in that. It is about the hypocricy of complaining about weapons because they are dangerous and then acting recklessly with them. I can't see why anyone would be really sympathetic to an adult who was so reckless.
 
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As an actor, if you are going pull the trigger on a gun, it is on you professionally to either check the gun yourself or have the handler show you the gun is not live. Period.
He has handled many guns and should know how to check it. He is the last line of defense to a horrible accident.
 
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Exactly. There are reports that several crew members walked off set earlier that day due to safety concerns and the LA Times supposedly has reported that another staff member shut herself in the foot (literally). If true, that's edging towards negligent homicide.
 
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Jeffersoncountynole said:
Exactly. There are reports that several crew members walked off set earlier that day due to safety concerns and the LA Times supposedly has reported that another staff member shut herself in the foot (literally). If true, that's edging towards negligent homicide.
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Also reports that crew members used the guns for target practice off set even that very day. Real guns, improper control and storage, live ammo stored with blanks, poor firearm handling procedures. All combined to make a tragic accident possible. However, when that much lack of safety and incompetency is in play it cant be written off as just an accident.

I tend to think there could be more here than what's being reported or yet to be discovered. But as it seems I think Baldwin gets charged with manslaughter or negligent homicide.
 
AllNoles said:
No my politics do not. My dislike for hypocrisy is what comes in. I don't care who you are, you don't shoot a gun at anyone or anything unless you intend to cause it harm. The one exception I would make is in a situation like a studio setting and someone is relying on experts as to what they can or should do. If he did that then it's not his fault and I hate any pain he suffers for being in the middle of that. I can't imagine it. But I would not have a lot of sympathy for the most conservative person who points a gun at someone and there is a tragic accident.

I think I have been clear here. It is not about AB. I don't like his politics but he is irrelevant to my life unless I am watching 30 Rock and I love him in that. It is about the hypocricy of complaining about weapons because they are dangerous and then acting recklessly with them. I can't see why anyone would be really sympathetic to an adult who was so reckless.
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He's had a pretty harsh stand on guns and accidents in the past. Basically a zero tolerance type thing.
 
FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor said:
His wife is already loudly predicting that he will have “PTSD, like police officers and military personnel.” Don’t kid yourself: this guy is already very publicly acting out his potential legal defense. He wants to be seen as a victim.

Maybe he is a victim in some sense, but remember that he was also producing this entire film. He wasn’t merely a pay-for-service-actor reading some lines.
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He has no clue what police officers and military go through. Maybe he will educate himself now.
 
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I have two cousins pretty high up in the realm of film making - one is a director and one is an assistant director. I reached out to one of them and here is what he had to say:

Q: Who do you think is at fault in the Alec Baldwin shooting?

A: The armorer is at fault for having live ammo anywhere near a film set but from what I read it was the assistant director who handed Baldwin the weapon and announced it as a cold weapon. This is something an assistant director never does. This is something the armorer does. so that makes it the assistant director to blame. Having said that, the producers hired and replaced union people with non union people including the Assistant director and armorer and I’m sure were rushing the process in order to get their money’s worth on top of ignoring safety concerns voiced by the previous hired union crew members. This makes it the producer’s fault. In all of this is seasoned actor alec Baldwin who as an actor should have noticed something odd about an AD handing him a weapon and on top of that pulling the trigger during a rehearsal and on top of that having the weapon pointed at real people during a rehearsal. This makes Baldwin to blame. My point is, everyone is to blame for this occurrence. It is a very sad state of affairs.

Q: I know you aren't a lawyer but who do you think is legally to blame?

A: Producers. The AD def did the most damage though considering they are the ones in charge of safety on set. And this AD is the one who put everyone in danger. But producers will take the fall legally due to them ignoring safety concerns and not hiring a union crew in order to protect and promote safety on the set.
 
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F4Gary said:
As an actor, if you are going pull the trigger on a gun, it is on you professionally to either check the gun yourself or have the handler show you the gun is not live. Period.
He has handled many guns and should know how to check it. He is the last line of defense to a horrible accident.
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Do you work on movie sets or have knowledge of the usual protocols?
 
Dhersh said:
I have two cousins pretty high up in the realm of film making - one is a director and one is an assistant director. I reached out to one of them and here is what he had to say:

Q: Who do you think is at fault in the Alec Baldwin shooting?

A: The armorer is at fault for having live ammo anywhere near a film set but from what I read it was the assistant director who handed Baldwin the weapon and announced it as a cold weapon. This is something an assistant director never does. This is something the armorer does. so that makes it the assistant director to blame. Having said that, the producers hired and replaced union people with non union people including the Assistant director and armorer and I’m sure were rushing the process in order to get their money’s worth on top of ignoring safety concerns voiced by the previous hired union crew members. This makes it the producer’s fault. In all of this is seasoned actor alec Baldwin who as an actor should have noticed something odd about an AD handing him a weapon and on top of that pulling the trigger during a rehearsal and on top of that having the weapon pointed at real people during a rehearsal. This makes Baldwin to blame. My point is, everyone is to blame for this occurrence. It is a very sad state of affairs.

Q: I know you aren't a lawyer but who do you think is legally to blame?

A: Producers. The AD def did the most damage though considering they are the ones in charge of safety on set. And this AD is the one who put everyone in danger. But producers will take the fall legally due to them ignoring safety concerns and not hiring a union crew in order to protect and promote safety on the set.
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Damn. Well that has either saved me a lot of general reading or quite the opposite following the various points raised as the case unfolds!
 
GbrNole said:
Damn. Well that has either saved me a lot of general reading or quite the opposite following the various points raised as the case unfolds!
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Take the 2nd answer with a massive grain of salt.
 
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Dhersh said:
Take the 2nd answer with a massive grain of salt.
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Now someone is claiming sabotage was the cause. Not impossible but still doesn't absolve peoples responsibility to check the weapon.
 
ericfulton said:
Now someone is claiming sabotage was the cause. Not impossible but still doesn't absolve peoples responsibility to check the weapon.
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I thought about sabotage as well. That would be some diabolical shit.
 
Crappy Davenpot said:
Treat all guns as if loaded. Rack the slide multiple times. Lock the slide back and visually inspect.

Could care less about politics. I’m independent. Don’t like Baldwin’s propensity to try and bully photographers and others. Lots of fault to go around in this one.
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The real question is what’s protocol on a movie set. What you’re saying is how normal people handle guns in situations where they would be putting live ammo in it. Now maybe it is protocol for even the talent to check a gun when handed to them even if someone yells out “cold gun” but I’d be surprised if that’s the case. I just don’t understand why they they’d even have actual guns on a movie set. Why wouldn’t they just have exact replicas that have no ability to fire a bullet?
 
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