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agile training, worth it or a waste of money?

FSUTribe76

Veteran Seminole Insider
Jan 23, 2008
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I know relatively little about it and don't need it but it keeps showing up in my email.
 
Seems pretty simple to me. If you don't need it yet still spend money on it, then it is a waste of money.

Is this professional development training or fitness training?
 
The professional/managerial certification is what I'm talking about although I could use the latter. Back several years ago when I was single and still cared about such things I told my personal trainer Monster Matt that I wanted to match or exceed every NFL combine statistic of the worst Safety at the combine that year. I pretty easily exceeded the bench, 40, and jumps but I never did quite crack the agility runs.

But I'm talking about the managerial training. I own and run three small businesses with employees scattered not just around the country but the globe (ie our experts and sales are all throughout the country but our programming and tech support is in India), plus I'm an independent consultant and tiny shareholder for two large publicly traded companies. So it might be useful even though I don't "need it" if it provides actually useful knowledge. But when I read up on Agile and "Scrummaster" it sounds more like a cult and less like a real business methodology. Lol.
 
Its the buzzword in IT as it relates to PM.
 
I am an Agile Trainer and Coach. Teaching a Leading SAFe class at FedEx this week. Not looking to sell you anything but would be willing to discuss with you if interested in learning more. Email me at cody at davisbase dot com
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Originally posted by nynole1:
Its the buzzword in IT as it relates to PM.
Yeah but is there any practical, useful info given in these trainings or are they all vague BS as they sound in the descriptions. I was already joking saying the difference between what is written about the courses and how they describe Scientology auditing courses are not very dissimilar.
 
Originally posted by fsunole025:
I am an Agile Trainer and Coach. Teaching a Leading SAFe class at FedEx this week. Not looking to sell you anything but would be willing to discuss with you if interested in learning more. Email me at cody at davisbase dot com
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I'll email you in a bit. I assume you're CMAN's referral.
 
Originally posted by FSUTribe76:

Originally posted by nynole1:
Its the buzzword in IT as it relates to PM.
Yeah but is there any practical, useful info given in these trainings or are they all vague BS as they sound in the descriptions. I was already joking saying the difference between what is written about the courses and how they describe Scientology auditing courses are not very dissimilar.
I can't speak personally to that but most of the PMs I talk to think its a scam to make money with training. They say a lot of whats preached in Agile are things that PMs have already been doing for years.

One thing I do know, it does open up doors for people to interview.
 
I like the methodology and scrum meetings. Keeps everyone focused, engaged, and motivated. You also can pick out pretty quickly who is slacking or needs more coaching after a scrum meetings. We don't follow any methodology at my current employer but I follow the routine myself minus the meetings as far as writing up what needs to be and what has been done etc.
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Originally posted by FSUTribe76:

Originally posted by nynole1:
Its the buzzword in IT as it relates to PM.
Yeah but is there any practical, useful info given in these trainings or are they all vague BS as they sound in the descriptions. I was already joking saying the difference between what is written about the courses and how they describe Scientology auditing courses are not very dissimilar.


That is a hilarious and likely accurate comparison depending on the provider. I'm curious, what organization sent you the email?
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Originally posted by nynole1:I can't speak personally to that but most of the PMs I talk to think its a scam to make money with training. They say a lot of whats preached in Agile are things that PMs have already been doing for years.

One thing I do know, it does open up doors for people to interview.
I was a traditional/waterfall IT Project Manager for several years before learning of Agile. I was skeptical of the framework until we started applying the principles and practices. I even had the same thoughts regarding it being a scam to sell training. But once I was able to experience the differences between Waterfall and Agile, there was no turning back. I have trained over 2,000 individuals, coached over 50 teams and dozens of organizations in the past 4 years to make the transition and to my knowledge not a single person or company has wanted to return to the way they used to manage projects. Why? Because Agile teams, organizations and their customers love Agile. Those that refuse to adapt to the new methods and approaches of delivering value run the risk of becoming irrelevant.

Are you an IT recruiter?
 
Originally posted by 12Nole:
I like the methodology and scrum meetings. Keeps everyone focused, engaged, and motivated. You also can pick out pretty quickly who is slacking or needs more coaching after a scrum meetings. We don't follow any methodology at my current employer but I follow the routine myself minus the meetings as far as writing up what needs to be and what has been done etc.
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This is awesome! Glad to hear you get value out of daily scrum. My wife and I use Scrum and Kanban principles to manage our household projects and budget.

Some people do not like Scrum because it provides too much visibility into their shortcomings. Resistors are typically those people that don't have the knowledge, skills or motivation to do the things they are asked to do. In a traditional/waterfall environment they have been able to cover their shortcomings.
 
It is worthwhile if a) you aren't a good project manager / team leader as it is Or b) you need it for a resume to get a job.

All these certifications are bull crap unless you can't figure it out on your own.

I worked at a mid sized IT shop and there were 4 types of team leads.

Has certification(s) and uses the methodology as taught -- decent project success rate
Has certification(s) and does it however -- horrible success rate
Doesn't have certs and can't lead for crap -- horrible success rate
Doesn't have certs but can lead a team -- best leads in the company

One of the biggest issues is the leadership methodology for a project should be based on the project and the team and really should be picked after at least part of the team is assembled. It also should change if need be to ensure project success. These new projects where the methodology is picked before the team is assembled, etc. is asinine. Also there are many leads that are stuck to one methodology and that is equally as asinine. You don't know what you are going to get until you really get into it.
 
Originally posted by fsunole025:
Originally posted by nynole1:I can't speak personally to that but most of the PMs I talk to think its a scam to make money with training. They say a lot of whats preached in Agile are things that PMs have already been doing for years.

One thing I do know, it does open up doors for people to interview.
I was a traditional/waterfall IT Project Manager for several years before learning of Agile. I was skeptical of the framework until we started applying the principles and practices. I even had the same thoughts regarding it being a scam to sell training. But once I was able to experience the differences between Waterfall and Agile, there was no turning back. I have trained over 2,000 individuals, coached over 50 teams and dozens of organizations in the past 4 years to make the transition and to my knowledge not a single person or company has wanted to return to the way they used to manage projects. Why? Because Agile teams, organizations and their customers love Agile. Those that refuse to adapt to the new methods and approaches of delivering value run the risk of becoming irrelevant.

Are you an IT recruiter?
FSU, let me just start out by saying that I was not in any way picking at Agile or any other methodology. I am not qualified to make that type of judgement and I want that to be clear. I was only repeating what I've been told by many a PM who has been through WF, Agile, etc. They feel its a flavor of the week type of a situation if that makes sense?

To answer your question, yes I've been an IT recruiter for the past twelve years.
 
Originally posted by nynole1:

Originally posted by fsunole025:
Originally posted by nynole1:I can't speak personally to that but most of the PMs I talk to think its a scam to make money with training. They say a lot of whats preached in Agile are things that PMs have already been doing for years.

One thing I do know, it does open up doors for people to interview.
I was a traditional/waterfall IT Project Manager for several years before learning of Agile. I was skeptical of the framework until we started applying the principles and practices. I even had the same thoughts regarding it being a scam to sell training. But once I was able to experience the differences between Waterfall and Agile, there was no turning back. I have trained over 2,000 individuals, coached over 50 teams and dozens of organizations in the past 4 years to make the transition and to my knowledge not a single person or company has wanted to return to the way they used to manage projects. Why? Because Agile teams, organizations and their customers love Agile. Those that refuse to adapt to the new methods and approaches of delivering value run the risk of becoming irrelevant.

Are you an IT recruiter?
FSU, let me just start out by saying that I was not in any way picking at Agile or any other methodology. I am not qualified to make that type of judgement and I want that to be clear. I was only repeating what I've been told by many a PM who has been through WF, Agile, etc. They feel its a flavor of the week type of a situation if that makes sense?

To answer your question, yes I've been an IT recruiter for the past twelve years.
For a good PM the flavor of the week impression tends to be the case.

I inserted a lot of agile concepts into a modified waterfall on many projects. Typically a project fails because the lead gets stuck with a methodology rather than being flexible, identifying risks and adapting to minimize them. True agile tends to work well with senior teams... I have never had the chance to lead a team of only seniors because it hardly ever happens. If the company isn't hiring Jr and mid level developers they go broke and they are harder to plug into true agile. It's also critical to have a lot of client interaction which may not be acceptable to them or even possible. If a project is too big / team size too big agile can quickly turn into chaos.

Anyone pushing one methodology is the best or touting that entire companies are dropping a particular methodology is pushing the wrong thing. Every project should be evaluated for the methodology it will use... along with the technology, team makeup, etc.
 
Originally posted by FSUTribe76:
The professional/managerial certification is what I'm talking about although I could use the latter. Back several years ago when I was single and still cared about such things I told my personal trainer Monster Matt that I wanted to match or exceed every NFL combine statistic of the worst Safety at the combine that year. I pretty easily exceeded the bench, 40, and jumps

Do you own a manure business? That's an awful lot of bullshit for one man to shovel.
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Originally posted by nynole1:



Originally posted by fsunole025:


Originally posted by nynole1:

I can't speak personally to that but most of the PMs I talk to think its a scam to make money with training. They say a lot of whats preached in Agile are things that PMs have already been doing for years.

One thing I do know, it does open up doors for people to interview.
I was a traditional/waterfall IT Project Manager for several years before learning of Agile. I was skeptical of the framework until we started applying the principles and practices. I even had the same thoughts regarding it being a scam to sell training. But once I was able to experience the differences between Waterfall and Agile, there was no turning back. I have trained over 2,000 individuals, coached over 50 teams and dozens of organizations in the past 4 years to make the transition and to my knowledge not a single person or company has wanted to return to the way they used to manage projects. Why? Because Agile teams, organizations and their customers love Agile. Those that refuse to adapt to the new methods and approaches of delivering value run the risk of becoming irrelevant.



Are you an IT recruiter?
FSU, let me just start out by saying that I was not in any way picking at Agile or any other methodology. I am not qualified to make that type of judgement and I want that to be clear. I was only repeating what I've been told by many a PM who has been through WF, Agile, etc. They feel its a flavor of the week type of a situation if that makes sense?

To answer your question, yes I've been an IT recruiter for the past twelve years.

No worries. I wasn't bothered by your comments. Hope I didn't seem defensive. I just get frustrated by the misconceptions like the ones presented to you by PMs. They say it is a scam or just another flash in the pan approach but the same organization that accredited their PMP has created the Agile equivalent with the ACP designation. The Agile framework has been around almost as long as Waterfall methodology since it was based on lean principles practiced by the automotive industry (Edwards Deming with Toyota) and lean product development flow (Don Reinertsen). The foundation of Agile is used in a variety of industries not just software development.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by FSUTribe76:
Back several years ago when I was single and still cared about such things I told my personal trainer Monster Matt that I wanted to match or exceed every NFL combine statistic of the worst Safety at the combine that year. I pretty easily exceeded the bench, 40, and jumps but I never did quite crack the agility runs.
Would this have been in 2008 when the slowest time was a 4.69 or 2009 when a 4.64 was the slowest?
 
I'm in IT and we switched to agile last year. It's ok I guess--- I like the dedicated team concept, which we couldn't do with traditional waterfall.

The only thing is I've heard multiple people say we aren't releasing more product on average but we are doing more releases( generally to fix the bugs--- fail faster is a nice concept here).
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