I don't know if there is a better interaction on TV currently that's more entertaining than watching Axe and Chuck in the same room.
Billions - season finale
- Thread starter nynole1
- Start date
Great season finale last night. It will be interesting to see how Axe gets out of this one, and you know he will find a way.
Only thing I find a little annoying is how they are now portraying his wife as wanting to get out and thinking of abandoning him. She has been his staunchest supporter, and after one little lie about why Wendy came back to Axe Capital, she's ready to throw in the towel. After all the things he supposedly has done, that is the one thing that has pushed her to treat him like crap.
Writers will need to figure out how to move the story forward, and it can't move forward if Axe gets convicted and has to go to jail.
Only thing I find a little annoying is how they are now portraying his wife as wanting to get out and thinking of abandoning him. She has been his staunchest supporter, and after one little lie about why Wendy came back to Axe Capital, she's ready to throw in the towel. After all the things he supposedly has done, that is the one thing that has pushed her to treat him like crap.
Writers will need to figure out how to move the story forward, and it can't move forward if Axe gets convicted and has to go to jail.
Couldnt agree more about the wife, makes no sense and she is officially the worst character on the show if thats all it took. I thought he might slap the crap sout of her when she said that lol
He could be a puppet master for a season behind bars before finding his way out...agree though, he needs to be free
He could be a puppet master for a season behind bars before finding his way out...agree though, he needs to be free
I'm glad I stumbled upon this show. I hated the main character in Homeland, but actually like him in Billions. The supporting characters are awesome. Wags is one of my favorite TV characters of all time, and I thought he sucked in BB.
I really hope the writers can find a way to keep it going. It has been great so far.
I really hope the writers can find a way to keep it going. It has been great so far.
I'm also hoping the writers don't do some kind of time jump.
I can see them jumping two years into the future where Axe has been convicted or took a plea deal, getting our of jail and out for revenge. The current story is set up where they could since he left Taylor in charge while he is away.
I can see them jumping two years into the future where Axe has been convicted or took a plea deal, getting our of jail and out for revenge. The current story is set up where they could since he left Taylor in charge while he is away.
Great episode. Both seasons ended with Chuck and Axe in the same room. Taylor is a great character.
Chuck is a world-class POS. Walks around as if what he does is for the sake of morality when in reality he is exactly like Axe.
$27 million loss to prove a point is hardly worth it.
Chuck is a world-class POS. Walks around as if what he does is for the sake of morality when in reality he is exactly like Axe.
$27 million loss to prove a point is hardly worth it.
If Chuck ends up in the mansion, he will do well financially, so the $27MM might not be as big of a deal. Agree on everything else.
Shout out to Dollar Bill also, great character. Very interested in his thoughts on Taylor as CIO. He said it was the right move, I want to know why he feels that way.
Shout out to Dollar Bill also, great character. Very interested in his thoughts on Taylor as CIO. He said it was the right move, I want to know why he feels that way.
Great show and finale. I wonder if Lara's questions about divorce are a red herring.
I love that I never know whether I'm cheering for Chuck or Axe.
I love that I never know whether I'm cheering for Chuck or Axe.
I didn't make it past episode 5 in Season 1. This weekend I skipped to season 2 and binge watched it to catch up before the finale. Good season overall and that 2nd to last episode was phenomenal. 2nd season felt less shallow and had better writing.
I really was thinking Chuck had somehow not invested all that money and found a way to completely trick Axe. Thought he was going to explain all that to dad and partner when he met with them.
Wondering if investigation into Axe turns up the timing if investment Wendy made and the call she made just before the stock crashed.
Also, kind of dumb for Chuck not to alert his father and lawyer to get out early, if he indeed knew the fate of the company. They could have walked away with a ton of money AND still gotten Axe to get crushed. Even more, they could have bought up the juice company at pennies on the dollar later.
I saw all the above since he was going to lobby for Dake to leave his case alone. Then again he didn't know he'd have that agreement from Dake.
I agree about Lara's reaction being pretty dumb.
I also felt like Axe overreacted with his imminent arrest. The planning, sure. But the whole driving around scared, the bs about coming home to say goodbye to the kids, knowing good and well he'd make bail and get out a few hours later.
I didn't like the reaction, felt like it was very unlike Axe. I also don't like how messy he was with setting up the conspiracy. He's so careful with everything else, this season he seemed to fumble and stumble at every turn.
I need to go back now and finish season 1 to get a better sense for things.
I really was thinking Chuck had somehow not invested all that money and found a way to completely trick Axe. Thought he was going to explain all that to dad and partner when he met with them.
Wondering if investigation into Axe turns up the timing if investment Wendy made and the call she made just before the stock crashed.
Also, kind of dumb for Chuck not to alert his father and lawyer to get out early, if he indeed knew the fate of the company. They could have walked away with a ton of money AND still gotten Axe to get crushed. Even more, they could have bought up the juice company at pennies on the dollar later.
I saw all the above since he was going to lobby for Dake to leave his case alone. Then again he didn't know he'd have that agreement from Dake.
I agree about Lara's reaction being pretty dumb.
I also felt like Axe overreacted with his imminent arrest. The planning, sure. But the whole driving around scared, the bs about coming home to say goodbye to the kids, knowing good and well he'd make bail and get out a few hours later.
I didn't like the reaction, felt like it was very unlike Axe. I also don't like how messy he was with setting up the conspiracy. He's so careful with everything else, this season he seemed to fumble and stumble at every turn.
I need to go back now and finish season 1 to get a better sense for things.
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@dmm5157 I think part of the sloppiness of Axe is the equivalent of Chuck losing $27MM: their hatred for one another causes them to do things completely out of character and also makes them unpredictable...and that's good TV!
Agree about Axe's reaction. I think most people in his situation would act the same way but it didn't fit the way they developed his character up to this point.
Agree about Axe's reaction. I think most people in his situation would act the same way but it didn't fit the way they developed his character up to this point.
Axe's angle has always been to not worry because you can't ever prove his involvement. The whole episode was just panic. His character is very much the "never let them see you sweat" guy and that finale was no where close to that.
Other than that, I enjoyed the episode. And I certainly think Chuck honestly doesn't care what happens to himself. He has the least to lose at this point.
This was seriously my thought as he was walking out of the holding cell - nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose.
You knew most of what the finale was going to be after the last 3 minutes of last week's episode, the only mystery was how the entirety of the situation would play out.
The last scene somewhat confused me though. Was Wendy proud that Chuck finally did what he's been trying to do for years, was she happy that he forced Axe in to saying the rights words to her at the end?
I think next season is going to be very interesting from a number of story lines perspective. You have Lara confused as hell about what to do, having already liquidated their safety stash. Chuck getting the proof of Wendy's taking advantage of their separation. Axe being under an even more powerful microscope.
Can definitely see this going for a few more seasons.
I think Axe and Wendy potentially become more of an item next season. Question is will it be genuine as was shown to us at their meeting before Axe's arrest, or is Axe already two steps ahead of Chuck planning his revenge by taking his wife from him? Might be far fetched, but that would be my play as a writer for this show.
@dmm5157 I think we are agreeing with each other lol
I agree with this aspect, although since Chuck already knows Wendy was cheating on him, I'm not sure how invested he is with her. He already drew line in the sand about no more therapy. Then again he also probably figured she wouldn't come home at the end.
Certainly looked like a man with nothing to lose.
If Chuck runs for public office, it'll be very easy to expose him during election time, from jail or not.
I like the angle of Axe being in prison (project into near future). Doubt that's how they go, though.
Chuck losing his father as an ally will ultimately become an opening. Ditto with his ex-lawyer.
@nynole1 yes, I believe we are
Too obvious. The writers have been pretty subtle in the first two seasons.
Is it still too obvious if Axe uses her to destroy Chuck? It would destroy his family too, but we have already seen the lengths these two will go to hurt the other. I would not support true love between Ace and Wendy but I would enjoy the alternative.
This last sentence. I think I've finally gotten to the point that I'm more a champion of the presented villain than I am otherwise. I can't remember too many shows where I'm cheering for the bad guy. Big reason why I like the show.
Neither are really good guys in the end. Chuck is driven by ambition and has shown he will bend the rules when needed in order to catch Axe. Axe is driven by greed, and will bend the rules to make more money.
Unless Axe was completely lying to Wendy at the end of the episode, it seems he knows he has done some bad things and wants to begin taking steps to be a better person.
Unless Axe was completely lying to Wendy at the end of the episode, it seems he knows he has done some bad things and wants to begin taking steps to be a better person.
Re: the end of the episode... I think he was truly being sincere with Wendy, until Chuck couldn't stop his ego from coming out... thinking that his visit to lockup is what pushes Axe back to unethical behavior.
Wait, who IS this? We don't bite (often), you should come around more often!!
Anyone catch Wendy whisper something in Axe's ear as he was about to get arrested? Axe already knew about her insider trade on the Juice deal so it wasn't that.
Also, how did the vault get cleaned out? Lara? Did she do it as part of their escape plan, or out of spite?
Also, how did the vault get cleaned out? Lara? Did she do it as part of their escape plan, or out of spite?
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Great show, started watching in the middle of last season.
Not sure what to make of the season finale, it seems Axe was out of character, running around scared of being arrested. I guess the news of his arrest from Boyd caught him off guard. I'm not so sure.
However, did anyone notice how confident Axe was in the jail cell? It was like he knew Chucky would come rub it in, then he made no bones about his intent to bring him down also. Axe is always very careful to separate himself from anything that would get him in trouble, like the car company short. Then he goes around and half assed recruits guys, a house keeper and others to "publically" pour the bacteria in the juice bottles for the FBI and all to see, then get sick? I'm not buying this.
Dake never detailed what he had on Axe to arrest him, that I recall. I think Axe set this whole thing up to bring down Chucky and his Dad. I bet there is no bacteria in the juice bottles and they can't connect Axe to the events of those days. Did anyone see where Axe actually shorted Ice Juice? Wendy did, but did Axe?
Regarding Lara, the phone call between her and Axe was a setup, as he knew the FBI would be listening to Lara's phone, that's why he had his employee drop off the car. I think Lara knew it as well. She is still team Axe as she emptied the safe before the feds could confiscate all their stash. I think she went to talk to the Lawyer about divorce to perhaps help secure the assets versus just getting out of the marriage.
Now we have to wait until Jan/Feb of 2018 to see how this shakes out. I hope Axe torches Chucky.
Not sure what to make of the season finale, it seems Axe was out of character, running around scared of being arrested. I guess the news of his arrest from Boyd caught him off guard. I'm not so sure.
However, did anyone notice how confident Axe was in the jail cell? It was like he knew Chucky would come rub it in, then he made no bones about his intent to bring him down also. Axe is always very careful to separate himself from anything that would get him in trouble, like the car company short. Then he goes around and half assed recruits guys, a house keeper and others to "publically" pour the bacteria in the juice bottles for the FBI and all to see, then get sick? I'm not buying this.
Dake never detailed what he had on Axe to arrest him, that I recall. I think Axe set this whole thing up to bring down Chucky and his Dad. I bet there is no bacteria in the juice bottles and they can't connect Axe to the events of those days. Did anyone see where Axe actually shorted Ice Juice? Wendy did, but did Axe?
Regarding Lara, the phone call between her and Axe was a setup, as he knew the FBI would be listening to Lara's phone, that's why he had his employee drop off the car. I think Lara knew it as well. She is still team Axe as she emptied the safe before the feds could confiscate all their stash. I think she went to talk to the Lawyer about divorce to perhaps help secure the assets versus just getting out of the marriage.
Now we have to wait until Jan/Feb of 2018 to see how this shakes out. I hope Axe torches Chucky.
I agree that it seemed very out of character for him to be so sloppy. The only thing I can think of is that his hatred of Chuck caused him to make mistakes that he would not normally make. However, as you mention, he has always been extremely careful and calculated in everything else he has done.
I think it would be pretty interesting if they end up testing the substance in the juice, and it turns out to be harmless. Basically Axe and gang found some other way to make those people sick that could not be traced back to him. A situation where Chuck and company know he still had his hands in it, but with absolutely no evidence to link him to it. He walks free with a slightly tarnished rep, but still has all his money.
I think it would be pretty interesting if they end up testing the substance in the juice, and it turns out to be harmless. Basically Axe and gang found some other way to make those people sick that could not be traced back to him. A situation where Chuck and company know he still had his hands in it, but with absolutely no evidence to link him to it. He walks free with a slightly tarnished rep, but still has all his money.
I've seen the terminology like this the past couple days, and I don't think it was him being scared so much as not being sure how long he'd be held and what the immediate ramifications would be regarding their portfolio. I took it as he was trying to be as elusive as possible while ensuring that there was a sound plan of action while he was in legal limbo.
Wondering if this wasn't a form of his testing trust in folks. We went to ol dude that he knew was eager to get back in his good graces, though Axe had told him he couldn't "walk thru that door again." Axe has shown to be one to play off of people's inherent urges and desires, knowing that guy was more than anxious to get back in and would "show" him his worth worked in Axe's favor. The fact that he was the one to half ass enlist cronies will just go further to Axe's closing off of his circle of trust.
If there was no way for Axe to be connected, he wouldn't have gone through the lengths that he did in the episode. No one was watching him, there was no law enforcement presence around him. And local SAO had no knowledge of the arrest.
We see the surveillance footage snippets when Chuck is describing what is likely going to happen to Dake. The idea that Chuck would know what Axe would do (tamper with Ice Juice to fake illness) is pretty far fetched.
There's no way that Axe going to jail to screw Chuck was part of the plan at all. The tough guy routine from Axe was simply that: A routine. He had an effing conversation with his ex-employee about tips on prison, which included taking a dump before he gets incarcerated. Those are not conversations you have when you know they got nothing on you.
If it ends up that Axe did all this as a ruse, it's pretty reckless. Lara is, no doubt, taking her half of his cash now in an effort to protect it from the feds raiding it. She's talking to lawyers and trying to figure out what her options are. and then there's the "your father isn't coming home" statement she made to their sons, as well as Axe's conversation with his sons about going to prison.
This was not Axe's plan.
I agree that all of Axe's actions were very out of character for him. Makes very little sense.
It would have been smart for Axe to put Taylor in charge as CIO before the Ice Juice thing to separate himself from the plan.
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The Feds knew that Axe would "throw a turd" in the punch bowl for the IPO when Chucky recruited Boyd to make the call to Axe and make him aware of the Dad's stake in IceJ. So Chucky knew he would do something, just not what, so he told Dake to tail him with all his FBI resources.
My theory is Axe became aware of the tails and surveillance and staged the public illness and spiking of the juice bottles. Remember when Axe brought Boyd the scotch and he said he couldn't drink it because of piss testing, then Axe glanced back as he left and saw Boyd take a hit of it? I think he knew then that Boyd had made a deal or at least suspected it. As I stated, I think once the juice bottles are tested, they come up empty. I think the only bacteria was introduced by the IceJ foreman when Hall gave it to him in the alley.
I think Axe knew he would be arrested, he just didn't know when or for how long he would be in, hence the dramatic "what can I expect" conversation with dollar bill. I think the arrest came as a surprise in that it was happening that quickly, maybe that's why he freaked out, although Hall disappearing all of a sudden is interesting, what did he know and when? I still think he has a plan, just by the way his attitude changed in the jail cell.
You maybe right about Lara, she is a hard cookie to understand. I have a hard time believing she would wreck her life over a lie about who set the ground rules for Wendy's return. Although a hot blonde with a billion dollar checking account is not a bad life if she can wade through all the divorce BS Axe will throw at her.
I still think that both Axe and Lara knew the feds were listening to that phone conversation and he said he would come home for a hug, just to get the feds to react. This is obvious because he sent one of his traders to drive the car home and that's when they pounced.
A lot of ways this can go next season.
Regardless of how what happened this season, the writers have a couple options. In the end, I do not think anyone wants to watch a season that would have some protracted court battle between Axe and the other guy. Recall that Chuck cannot be the front man in any trial.
The writers either have to do a time jump or resolve the whole Axe getting charges somehow dropped within the first few episodes so that he and Chuck can continue their little war.
The writers either have to do a time jump or resolve the whole Axe getting charges somehow dropped within the first few episodes so that he and Chuck can continue their little war.
I didn't read a bit into his attitude beyond wanting revenge and posturing so as not to give Chuck the satisfaction that Axe was sweating bullets. Trying to be a tough guy, didn't want Chuck to see him sweat. The whole interaction in the prison cell was a pissing contest. Look at how pathetic Axe looks leaving prison: Walks out alone, no one waiting for him. Gets home, no one waiting for him. Walks into house in silence. If that isn't a broken man, I don't know what is. And there was no "ah HA!" moment like the previous episode with Chuck laughing his ass off about the trickery that played out. I guess I just don't see enough proof to merit the whole episode as a charade.
I thought Chuck's "worth it" comment was pretty back breaking to Axe's whole threat about finding his "thread". Chuck looks like he honestly doesn't GAF anymore about anything. Said eff you dad, eff you lawyer, and even eff you to his wife (no more therapy, I'm done. Come home or don't, I don't care). She came back, not entirely sure why.
Ultimately believe Wendy will indeed be Chuck's undoing one way or another.
The last episode could have played out a lot better.
Axe planning ahead enough to fake the fake illness is a bit of jumping the shark. That would be an "i knew you'd know I knew you knew" sort of situation. Writers could pull one with Chuck, which in his case he had to figure there was a 50/50 chance that Axe would take the bait. And if Axe didn't take the bait, he'd make a bundle of dough.
The only thing I really didn't like was how sloppy and stupid the illness/bacteria plan was and how hands-on Axe was with it.
Another thing, i'm not sure how you could say there was no bacteria when there were lots of cases of illness and it was all from people who were shown introducing the drug into their vials? It had to be provable cases of bacteria to substantiate the concerns, otherwise the story wouldn't match. It would come out very easily in the news that it was a hoax.
I think the folks on the street, his old employee that couldn't get someone to drink the juice, the maid and the contractor guy that owed Lara's brothers money were all faked I believe. Those folks are who the FBI were surveilling. Remember the FBI lady getting the bottle from the guy in the ambulance?
Now think back to when Hall met the IceJ supervisor in the alley at night, he handed him a vial and told him the money was in the account and to introduce the bacteria slowly on his command. He walked into the factory with his lunch box and opened it. That's were the sickness came from at all the other locations. I believe once they test the juice bottle from the folks they were surveilling they will find nothing. Then of course there is nothing to connect Axe to the real poison introduced by the supervisor other then Hall and I don't think your finding him.
Ahh.....what if Hall is a fed and is setting up Axe and that's why he couldn't get a hold of him once he knew the arrest was eminent? Hmmmmmm
Again, the whole prison cell thing, he looked worried and not himself while he was running around that day avoiding the feds, then he looked to be his old self in the cell, ready to rip Chuckys head off, something about that with me....
This is Interesting stuff, I have never been this into a show like this before, interesting twists and turns, plenty of places the writers can go next season. I saw someone compare this show to the real life convicted inside trader Steve Cohen, are there similarities with this?
I was worrying that the show was losing momentum a bit with the cloak and dagger stuff and getting a bit lost in who to root for. The turn in the last episode was pretty good stuff, I enjoyed watching how all that went down.
While I like the show, I'm not a fan of the Axlerod character or the actor that plays him.
While I like the show, I'm not a fan of the Axlerod character or the actor that plays him.
Back to last season
I felt and feel like Lara bailing is totally in character. She was his biggest defender. She would have done anything. But when he lied to her about Wendy and then about coming home, she was done. I think she could deal with anything. They came up together from nothing and have supported each other at all times. The one thing she could not handle is him lying. And honestly I think he’d have been the same way. I think if he had sex with Wendy and came home and told Lara, she’d have forgiven it (or at least dealt with it). But lying is unforgivable.
I felt and feel like Lara bailing is totally in character. She was his biggest defender. She would have done anything. But when he lied to her about Wendy and then about coming home, she was done. I think she could deal with anything. They came up together from nothing and have supported each other at all times. The one thing she could not handle is him lying. And honestly I think he’d have been the same way. I think if he had sex with Wendy and came home and told Lara, she’d have forgiven it (or at least dealt with it). But lying is unforgivable.
I was some what confounded by the split between Lara and Axe at the beginning of this season. That was quite the quick transition. Then it occurred to me, maybe this is their plan while he was going through the indictment. Not real sure how that would have benefitted both of them but as I said last year, I don't understand the split based on the session arrangements between Wendy and Axe. Who cares who's idea it was? Your gonna throw away the billionaire lifestyle for that? If so, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out......
I suspect now that the indictment portion of this is over, Lara shows back up and they get back together.
This season started off slow, but the last two episodes have been stellar. Will be interesting to see how Axe handles Spyros, that guy is a snake. Although his handing the trade information from Wendy to Connerty without the knowledge of Axe jump started the cooperation between Axe and Chuck which led to the case dismissal.
Now what happens? I think Chuck and Axe still are at odds, but then again, maybe Axe helps bank roll Chuck's election to governor to give him an "ally" to keep the law off of him while he does his thing. As long as Wendy is at Axe Capital, I don't think Chuck messes with Axe, they could still cause mutual assured destruction of each other.
Great show....
I suspect now that the indictment portion of this is over, Lara shows back up and they get back together.
This season started off slow, but the last two episodes have been stellar. Will be interesting to see how Axe handles Spyros, that guy is a snake. Although his handing the trade information from Wendy to Connerty without the knowledge of Axe jump started the cooperation between Axe and Chuck which led to the case dismissal.
Now what happens? I think Chuck and Axe still are at odds, but then again, maybe Axe helps bank roll Chuck's election to governor to give him an "ally" to keep the law off of him while he does his thing. As long as Wendy is at Axe Capital, I don't think Chuck messes with Axe, they could still cause mutual assured destruction of each other.
Great show....
I agree the whole quick turn with Lara didn't make any sense at all. Happened instantly at start of the season, some of the timeline this season was a bit odd. I also never understood why Axe was so reckless with the Ice Juice IPO. A lot of how that whole thing played out was a bit of a reach as to how Chuck was implicated and the amount of risk Axe took in getting the entire sting set up.
Seems like Chuck was hands-on in following everyone that had a hand in tampering with the juice, but suddenly the investigation got botched quickly into this season and Axe was able to derail every aspect.
Little bit sloppy on some of the writing and motivations of the characters, but overall a good season. Finished strong once it got going.
Again I just don't see that inconsistency at all. The only thing she required at all times was total honesty. It's like in season one when the stuff came up about how Axe made money while her family and friends died dealing with the 9/11 attack. They were all pissed but she had his back. Why? Because she knew. Nothing was hidden.
She also does not give up a lifestyle. As we have seen, she has 50% of everything. It was always their deal. She is wealthy beyond measure.
I am not saying they don't get back together. They could, if they can get past the trust thing. But I don't think the split is fake or unusual for who they are as a couple.
She also does not give up a lifestyle. As we have seen, she has 50% of everything. It was always their deal. She is wealthy beyond measure.
I am not saying they don't get back together. They could, if they can get past the trust thing. But I don't think the split is fake or unusual for who they are as a couple.
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