Bobby Hart is in a position to start for the Giants this year
- Thread starter Pox2
- Start date
"Impossible! He played for Coach Trickett and he can't develop talent!"
-The TC Trickett Mob
-The TC Trickett Mob
I'm pulling for him. Would be excellent to have him join former line-mates Stork, Erving and Jackson as starters in the NFL. Johnson will get there next year.
Matias is currently listed 3rd string for the Titans. I hope that he can make a move with them this year and move up from the practice squad. I thought that he was destined for greatness after being All ACC for three years. Just a stud in college.
One thing that I've noticed some is how our guys need to lose weight when they get to the NFL. Matias is down to 309 now. The Giants obviously wanted for Hart to get in better shape too from that article.
I'm not in any anti-Trickett mob, but my complaint with Trickett is that in his NINE years as our OL coach we have had only ONE year where we had an elite level line and two other years where we had a strong OL.
- 2007: weak line
- 2008: weak line
- 2009: weak line
- 2010: good line
- 2011: weak line
- 2012: decent line
- 2013: elite level line
- 2014: decent and then good line (once Erving moved to OC and Johnson started at LT)
- 2015: weak line
Do you see why folks might just be tired of him?
This is a big year for him. This OL had better be freaking good ... not decent ... I'm talking really strong.
This dude has been gone for two years and been developing the whole and you are going to try and give trickett credit for a guy who wasnt ready when he came out but is now
Hart wasn't ready because he was just too damned young and physically not ready to compete. He was the opposite of a "grown ass man" while at FSU.
Hart is still just 21 years old TODAY.
Yeah, he's already been in the NFL for a year and he's still just 21. He won't turn 22 until this August.
He was 17 as a true-FR at FSU when he played for us. He was 18 as a SO, 19 as a JR and just 20 as a SR.
We talk about how normal 18-year old FR should get a redshirt and then be a back-up for a year or two and not start until they are like 20 or 21 as a college player.
It was a borderline crime that Hart wasn't given a redshirt at FSU. But Trickett's poor recruiting in most years didn't allow it because we were so damned thin in 2011 that we had to force him into action.
If you consider the 2010 line good, why not the 2012 line?
Rushing yards per game in 2010: 171
Rushing yards per game in 2012: 205
Yards per carry in 2010: 4.8
Yards per carry in 2012: 5.6
Rushing touchdowns in 2010: 27
Rushing touchdowns in 2012: 40
Sacks given up in 2010: 27
Sacks given up in 2012: 26
I stand corrected on 2012. It's the same players from 2013 who were excellent.
This is why I LOVE stats ... they tell a much better story than does just memory.
It was 2011 when those guys were green pups that we really stunk on the OL. And its hard to go 12-2 and not have a good OL!
Not this nonsense ... Again! I guess you don't know the difference between individual development and unit development.
If you consider 2010 to be good, and 2011 to be weak due to youth, much like this year, then I don't see what your problem with Trickett actually is. By your estimation the last time we had a weak line that wasn't attributed to youth/inexperience was 2009, and I don't think any facet of our 2009 team was up to what would eventually be Jimbo's standards. You could argue that we shouldn't have lulls like 2011, 2015, but OL recruiting has picked up the last few years as a solution.
Yep, he was 11 when he got to FSU.
Just shows you how ridiculous that tram was, he was what the 4th or 5th best OL and may be an NFL starter?
I'm not normally one to call for coaches heads, but it is shocking how many years we seem to be awful on the OL and it also shows how good we can be with a great line. 2013.
+1 on this one. People will form whatever theory they want, despite having a lick of truth to it, to form an argument. The unbiased reality will never change their minds.
I could lay out the following facts:
Menelik Watson came in with ONE year of JUCO experience and was drafted in the second round, he was a dang good tackle for us.
Cam Erving switched over from defense, dominated almost immediately, and was drafted in the first round. It was almost as if he had played OL his whole life.
Bryan Stork played TE in high school but Jimbo and Trickett saw OL potential in him, turned him into a damn good center and he started for a super bowl winning patriots team.
Let me add, that starting at OL at a young age is a big achievement in the league. A lot of OL peak as they get a little older in the OL.
Rodney Hudson, a three star guy, goes onto being a high draft pick and starting in year one.
Andrew Datko- fought injuries but was a 3 star recruit and drafted by the Packers late (6th or 7th round)
Tre Jackson- two (or three?) star DL, Trickett wanted him for OL and helped develop him into a relatively high draft pick and he starts for the Patriots as well.
How you can argue with that data? It takes a very flawed, subjective, and biased person to argue that. Seems we have quite a few here.
Also
2009: the OL was actually one of the team strengths that year. Offense was pretty dang productive, #1 in the ACC and only GT (option offense) had more rushing yards per game.
2010: plagued with injuries. Losing Darron Rose hurt, too. He would have been a draft pick had he taken care of business.
2011: not very good
2012: very good (funny watching some people debate this, when multiple unbiased, objective, well esteemed analysts said the OL was elite)
2013: very good
2014: not very good in the first half, very good in the second half
2015: not very good
I wonder what these fans would say to all of the high rated recruits, specifically the #1 OL class that came here and all raved about Trickett. According to their dialogue on here it would go something like this:
High Ranked, signed FSU OL: "Trickett is one of the best coaches in the country. I'm excited to play for him"
TC poster: "Actually youre wrong, he's only had one decent OL here and he doesn't really develop players"
PS- I wonder if RoJo is regretting his decision to come play for Trickett (one of the major reasons he committed, according to RoJo himself). I mean he started half way through his true freshman year and never looked back. Probably has nothing to do with Trickett's coaching ability right? That would be impossible.
As I recall Jimbo made changes to the OL recruiting methodology after the 2012-13 failures, casting a wider net, offering more recruits and offering them earlier. Seems to have paid off and as I'm sure the sane Trickett posters know all assistants recruit an area, not by position so all the recruiting failure can't be laid at Trickett's feet. Hopefully they now have it rolling and there will be no more years where we fail to meet our goals in OL talent.
It's so annoying and uninformed how so many of you think there are literally dozens of elite offensive lines in college football in a given year. There might be 5, if that. And last years alleged best line, Bama, got beaten pretty bad by Clemson. Our OL was not horrible last year, it was probably above average compared to most college OLs. Our standards at FSU aren't to be above average but it's getting old hearing how bad it was. You realize we had a RB run for over 1700yds, right? I don't care how good Cook is, you don't do that with a bad line.
The problem is with getting into the position where you have so much youth.
Why did we have to start four FR players in 2011?
Why did we have to start so much youth in 2014?
It was due to poor recruiting and not being prepared for those years. I mean, why did we have ZERO upperclassmen last season to plug into the positions that were opening up? Well, it was because of poor recruiting and development of players from the 2011, 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes.
But he turned the corner and we have recruited very, very well the past three years.
My beef with Tricket was his poor recruiting except for like one big class before 2014.
Yeah, because the Giant's coaching staff and trainers just sat on the sidelines while he came ready to raock and roll.
That's way more rational and understandable criticism. That, I have no problem with. Before 2014 I had the same criticisms. Its those who blindly declare he can't coach, while never getting more specific, that bother me. And in fairness to Trickett, he has by all evidence, cleaned up the recruitment problems. We know he can develop talent, so I don't understand the viciousness that is constantly thrown his way on here.
I hardly consider myself an expert on line play. Wasn't the position I played, and isn't the position I focus on during games. I understand that the vast majority of fans don't focus on line play during the games.
What I don't understand is people refusing to seek out the information that is provided by those who DO focus on the line. The information you presented is not only accurate, its very easy to obtain. We have posters on this site who provide incredible analysis on our line, every single game. That insight is literally three clicks and a 5 minute read away.
Again, as I posted before, I'm not one of the Tricket-bashers. I'm just a guy that was very frustrated with his recruiting earlier in his FSU tenure.
I also never bought into the whole "he's a Trickett guy" groupthink that dominated on these boards back when he'd sign guys like Ganguzza, Faircloth, Snider, Grosso and even Stork. Stork is about the only one of those types of undersized/not highly recruited guys that worked out.
Our recruiting classes under him in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 were just a big head scratcher for the most part. Of the 19 guys signed in that span only five have panned out and there is a chance that one more of them will. Look at this run:
- 2009: Orelus -- Phillips -- Prior -- Stork
- 2010: Foose
- 2011: Hart -- Jackson -- Matias -- Barron -- Carter -- Lovelady -- Pettis -- Prestwood -- Fahrenkrug
- 2012: Watson -- Glauser
- 2013: Bell -- Hoefield -- Denson
How did we not have any guys that were developed and ready to take over in 2015?
We signed NINE guys in 2011, after signing only ONE in 2010, and only three of the nine made any sort of positive impact. Six of them were complete misses.
And then in 2012 we signed a couple of JUCOs with one being strong and the other being a project who wound up only being allowed to play for one year.
Luckily or finally we finally seemed to have turned the corner in 2014. There are NO REASONS for us not to have a very strong OL in 2016 and beyond.
Bama's OL was elite and it played against an excellent DL from Clemson. And in the game Bama's RB had 158 yards and 3 TD on 36 attempts. That's a 4.4 avg. And Alabama scored 38 offensive points in the game.
FSU's OL runs a zone blocking scheme and that really benefits fast slashing backs. Remember Chris Thompson and how good he was with his speed? Remember what Karlos Williams would do as a back-up when he'd come in and rip off long runs (before he changed his mindset as our starter). Cook is EXCELLENT as a RB and he fits the zone scheme in a great way.
But tell me more about how FSU does in short yardage situations. Not just this past year but for the past several years.
It's why I don't like the zone scheme all that much. Getting tough short yardage conversions can be a real pain. Those 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 plays against Clemson still hurt.
I know that it really is a numbers game ... not everyone works out ... but we have had a seemingly way high bust rate with guys that we've brought in under Trickett. It's amazing to me the number of OL signees that have never done anything.
- Furlong, Ganguzza, Grosso
- Faircloth, Snider
- Orelus, Phillips, Prior
- Foose
- Barron, Carter, Fahrenkrug, Lovelady, Pettis, Prestwood
- Glauser
We'll see if there are more to add to that list above from the '14, '15, and '16 classes.
I'm not saying I completely disagree with you, but how can you say 2011 wasn't a stud OL class? Three of those guys went to the NFL. Fahenkrug ended up being a bust, but was the #1 JUCO OL. A lot of schools wanted him. Rueben Carter was also a solid looking prospect. 2011 OL class was one of the tops in the nation according to Rivals.
2010 was a case of horrible luck. Prior was a really good tackle prospect. Not Trickett's fault that his mom got punched in the face multiple times and he left to go back home to take care of his mom. It was a shame Orelus didn't work out. He was a good looking prospect at center, a 3 star 5.7 guy. Aubrey Philips was a huge commit and then ended up being a baby. Pretty much every school wanted him. He transferred to Auburn and ended up sucking there, too. Then you had Stork. So really it was the 2010, 2012-2013 years that cost us.
Why do so many people have to exaggerate things on here? Why can't we just have objective conversations that are actually accurate.
He was drafted into the NFL. That is indicative of his play at FSU, where he was coached by Trickett. And a lot of NFL OL don't peak until they are a little older. Obviously college players should all improve when they are in the league getting coached by professionals. If you draft a 3-7th round OL and are needing them to start right away as a rookie, you are probably in some trouble.
You're not wrong, I would just say that these past three classes have shown a change in how the OL is being recruited. Trickett still wants a certain kind of player, but I think he is easing up on demanding that specific guy that he wants to develop. Going after the big fish will likely have its impact. And hey, if not, I'll reevaluate my stance.
What's your point? That doesn't make our 2015 OL horrible by any means. We had struggles for sure, it was frustrating but the group was average. I'm not saying we should be accepting of average, and I certainly expect an improvement this year, but there is so much silly hyperbole and overreaction for a bunch of guys who have presumably been watching fball all their lives.
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