Career boards offering advice

[SoddyNole]

Not me, but I am personally aware of chemistry and biology PHDs having major problems with finding work.... "wrong decision of a lifetime" despite all the hard work did not equate to them thinking their career is a success.

Why not go into Chemical sales? A quick look on google and they average $89,000 per year before commissions and judging from the few that I know and how and where they live probably make around 200K+? Having a PHD would be very helpful in the field and could aid in coming up with possible solutions to existing problems.

This is where strategic planning without flexibility is a recipe for disappointment. Too many times our careers take an unexpected turn. Unless that guy has contacted every company in a 100 mile radius for each and every job opportunity, he is just taking the easy path in blaming his situation on others. If you want to work on the bench for a lower salary by all means do so. If you don't, do something about it.

 

[LesClaypool]

Well known to 17 year olds? To working class people who've never known a PhD? That's an absurd statement.

It's only well known to people who actively pay attention to such things, and most people don't. If it's well known that there are too many, why are universities still accepting students? Why are high school counselors still talking about them? That is absolutely not "well known" just because you and I know it, especially to kids that literally aren't deemed old enough to drive at night.

As a society we lose our mind making sure every teenager knows not put a tide pod in their mouth or to eat GMOs. But the educational industrial complex continues to market and encourage incredibly destructive behavior with very little official pushback from anywhere.

It Is known to anyone that takes an interest in their own future. It is not an absurd statement at all.

 

[seminole97]

If it's well known that there are too many, why are universities still accepting students?

Will the Feds still back student loans for anyone with a pulse?

But the educational industrial complex continues to market and encourage incredibly destructive behavior with very little official pushback from anywhere.

They don't ask what the degree is before guaranteeing the loan.
An industry that didn't have uncle sugar to pick up the tab would probably look askance at lending 10s of thousands of dollars for minimum wage jobs. But that's probably too radical to try, so we press on this way...

 

[GwinnettNole]

Why not go into Chemical sales? A quick look on google and they average $89,000 per year before commissions and judging from the few that I know and how and where they live probably make around 200K+? Having a PHD would be very helpful in the field and could aid in coming up with possible solutions to existing problems.

.

Yes, sales is an option for some. And a few have gone that route. The problem is not everyone is cut out for sales... which leads to the bench job.

 

[SoddyNole]

Yes, sales is an option for some. And a few have gone that route. The problem is not everyone is cut out for sales... which leads to the bench job.

So this person had tried sales?

 

[TennNole17]

I think the higher ed system needs an overhaul. Yes, students are responsible for their own choices, but these institutions are doing a huge disservice to many kids. They’re coming out in a hole that’s tough to get out of.

As far as hard work and how to make it in life, I’ve started telling my kids it’s already difficult enough, so don’t make it worse by creating your own obstacles. Get good grades, don’t have babies in high school, don’t get caught up in drugs, no neck tattoos, etc etc.

Once you’re in a career, I think too many people don’t know how to manage office politics.

agree with all of this enough to Like it, quote it, and repost it.

 

[FSU_UCLA]

Most wouldn't imagine for example that universities are KNOWINGLY awarding 10x more PHDs than are possibly employable...that the very universities that are encouraging to pursue their passion for literature at the same time KNOW they will not be hiring the graduates. There's an almost scam-like element to some of this stuff, and somehow teenagers are supposed to know all that before the age we trust them to buy a lottery ticket or go to an R-rated movie themselves.

I don't see how this is "scam-like." Universities do not have PhD programs in order to hire PhDs; just as high schools do not award high school diplomas in order to hire high school graduates. Most academic departments explicitly or implicitly ban hiring their own PhDs. Every PhD student I have ever known, including myself, has been well aware of the scarcity of tenure-track academic positions, and that scarcity and the reality of having to consider non-academic careers were the topic of constant discussion.

 

[FSU_UCLA]

PhD's are generally people who can't cut it in the real world and stayed in school as long as possible b/c they didn't/don't want to really work.

This does not describe any of the PhDs I have known, and I have known many.

Yep. We've been extremely hawkish about student loans with our kids...no loans for undergrad, and a clear budget of what we could afford. They can go anywhere they want...as long as it's the handful of places they can go for a certain amount per year. I'm just not going to let my kids adopt a $1000/mo+ nut for 10+ years of their life because they just love the fitness center or the latte station at such and such school. It's incredibly irresponsible from my perspective.

If anybody had attempted to block me from taking student loans to pay for college or graduate school, then my relationship with that person would have ended abruptly.

 

[LesClaypool]

This does not describe any of the PhDs I have known, and I have known many.
If anybody had attempted to block me from taking student loans to pay for college or graduate school, then my relationship with that person would have ended abruptly.

Yeah, I knew you’d say that.

I’ve worked in Hire Ed for 15 years and have met/know hundreds, probably over 1,000 PhDs. Vast majority of them are clueless to the ways of the real world and fit my description to a tee.

Guess we just know different PhDs. (Shrugs)

 

[FSU_UCLA]

Yeah, I knew you’d say that.

I’ve worked in Hire Ed for 15 years and have met/know hundreds, probably over 1,000 PhDs. Vast majority of them are clueless to the ways of the real world and fit my description to a tee.

Guess we just know different PhDs. (Shrugs)

Yea, I do not know any PhDs in Hire Ed.

I work with over 200 PhDs every year, and to a one, they are extraordinarily diligent, deliberate, and responsible.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I like when they refer to themselves as Dr. ________.

 

[LesClaypool]

Yea, I do not know any PhDs in Hire Ed.

I work with over 200 PhDs every year, and to a one, they are extraordinarily diligent, deliberate, and responsible.

Hahahaha it felt wrong when I typed it but I didn’t know why. Touche for not seizing upon it greater than you did. I’ll leave it unedited so anyone can get the same pleasure.

 

[RangerNole]

Glad to see this thread bring out some interesting thoughts. I too agree that our entire education system needs a massive overhaul; just won't hold my breath on it.
As far as the thoughts about how this guy or that guy can't find work appropriate to their education level. IMO it sounds like these people want to do a certain thing and if they can't then screw it. My original comment was to try and say that regardless of where you come from or what your education level is you can succeed in the US. Now that doesn't mean you get to do whatever your dream job is to reach whatever success level you desire; but it does mean if your willing to work hard, be flexible, take risks, invest in yourself etc. you will have a good life in the US and compared to the rest of the world a great life.

 

[GwinnettNole]

So this person had tried sales?

Some not all. Some failed miserably. Some haven't tried and some were successful...
Not everyone can do sales.

 

[SoddyNole]

Some not all. Some failed miserably. Some haven't tried and some were successful...
Not everyone can do sales.

Are you talking about this one guy or the entire industry? The avg pay for "new" Chem PhD is $62,900. So no, not everyone is making $30,000 a year in this field with that amount of education.

Let me also add the median "entire household" income in the US is $59,000. I am not sure why we should feel sorry for a new college graduate starting out higher that the average family income simply because some in the industry have a harder time of than others.

 

[fsUTampa]

Are you talking about this one guy or the entire industry? The avg pay for "new" Chem PhD is $62,900. So no, not everyone is making $30,000 a year in this field with that amount of education.

FWIW, that average figure is driven up by the larger-than-average amount of jobs in the chemistry field that are in California, in which $62,900 is basically a $30,000 job in the rest of the country....

 

[SoddyNole]

FWIW, that average figure is driven up by the larger-than-average amount of jobs in the chemistry field that are in California, in which $62,900 is basically a $30,000 job in the rest of the country....

I should have said "median" instead of avg/mean. Sorry.

If the higher amount of people (frequency) fall within a std deviation of the 62,900 figure the outlining salaries of the bell curve are more likely to be effected by regional standards of living but we are talking a much smaller group.

According to this site that salary puts you in the median middle income right out of college in most of the states in the US.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Are you talking about this one guy or the entire industry? The avg pay for "new" Chem PhD is $62,900. So no, not everyone is making $30,000 a year in this field with that amount of education.

Let me also add the median "entire household" income in the US is $59,000. I am not sure why we should feel sorry for a new college graduate starting out higher that the average family income simply because some in the industry have a harder time of than others.

I think you are mixing up a couple of things. The average salary for a "new" Chemistry Phd maybe 62k but that person could be working in sales, for example, which would bump the salary average correct? Meanwhile, the major complaint regarding Chemistry Phd's is finding technical work within their field. If they don't get a research professor role then they would have to fall in the category of a bench lab technician where the average salary is far below 62k or even 59k. From what I'm reading 35k, is more along the lines of a higher salary for this type of position.... and some of the lower positions do not have benefits. Again, there is a lot of these folks who would disagree that hard work equates to success.

 

[SoddyNole]

I think you are mixing up a couple of things. The average salary for a "new" Chemistry Phd maybe 62k but that person could be working in sales, for example, which would bump the salary average correct? Meanwhile, the major complaint regarding Chemistry Phd's is finding technical work within their field. If they don't get a research professor role then they would have to fall in the category of a bench lab technician where the average salary is far below 62k or even 59k. From what I'm reading 35k, is more along the lines of a higher salary for this type of position.... and some of the lower positions do not have benefits. Again, there is a lot of these folks who would disagree that hard work equates to success.

There are a few articles saying that this may not be the problem others are saying and changes are coming in the way they do statistical analysis on this particular subject. Mainly due to a lot of part time work is done while getting and right after receiving a PhD. From what I gather a very high percentage find jobs very quickly. Most are gainfully employed within 2-5 years. Is it optimal, probably not and I'm sure expectations may not be fully met right out of college but that is nothing new for any industry.

 

[GwinnettNole]

There are a few articles saying that this may not be the problem others are saying and changes are coming in the way they do statistical analysis on this particular subject. Mainly due to a lot of part time work is done while getting and right after receiving a PhD. From what I gather a very high percentage find jobs very quickly. Most are gainfully employed within 2-5 years. Is it optimal, probably not and I'm sure expectations may not be fully met right out of college but that is nothing new for any industry.

Good to know. I hope this is the case. As just from viewing career boards it’s can be pretty negative (thus the original post).