Cop Accidentally Shoots Instead of Tazer
- Thread starter DanC78
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That's not even the most effed up thing about that... well, ok, shooting him with an actual gun instead of a tazer is pretty effed up.... but....
HE'S NOT EVEN A "REAL" COP!!!!
Basically, he's a wealthy retired dude who donates a lot of money and equipment to the force, and has been deputized because of it. So he basically bought the right to be a cop! And he even has the right to use deadly force under certain circumstances (it remains to be seen whether this was one of those instances, but probably not).
He's not the only one either
HE'S NOT EVEN A "REAL" COP!!!!
Basically, he's a wealthy retired dude who donates a lot of money and equipment to the force, and has been deputized because of it. So he basically bought the right to be a cop! And he even has the right to use deadly force under certain circumstances (it remains to be seen whether this was one of those instances, but probably not).
He's not the only one either
They charged the man with Manslaughter....damn, they aren't playing. This should be interesting.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-reserve-deputy-73-charged-degree-manslaughter-stun/story?id=30277587
It's about time. You want to play with big-boy toys you have to suffer big-boy consequences when you eff up.
This sounds like a horrible mistake, and I'm sure the guy is sorry, but it's really dumb to let a 73 year old play cop. He's going to be in danger of getting his butt whipped no matter who the adversary, so every physical encounter will automatically escalate to someone getting tasered or shot.
From the video it looked and sounded like he had the suspect under control. It didn't seem like a taser was even necessary. And I suppose Al and Jesse will be in Oklahoma protesting soon, as I am sure their take will be this would not have happened to a non black suspect.
Why are so many guys resisting arrest these days? No one seems to care about the why these cops are put into these situations to begin with.
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Something tells me this happens more often than we know. Body cameras are just bringing it to light now. You shouldn't be shot in the back for running away.
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C'mon!!! While they shouldn't run, that is hardly justification for using deadly force. Not all incidents are the same. The Michael Brown incident is completely different from this one. This should not have happened whether this guy ran or not! Tazing him in this situation did not even seem to be needed and seems would have been done just so he could taze someone.
Cops, and especially wanna-be cops, enjoy shooting their guns. Never give these folks any reason to carry out their inner passions.
This should yield a spectacular lawsuit against a myriad of defendants.
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This should yield a spectacular lawsuit against a myriad of defendants.
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I'm not going to run from the cops or resist in any way because I could get shot, of course I'm not going to do anything that I feel like I need to run from. I would just assume somebody that is running has done something bad. Not condoning what the police did but who cares whose fault it is when you are dead, don't get yourself in that position.
The next time a bunch of kids scatter and run from a house party where their underage drinking, I hope every single one of them gets gunned down.
Why are so many guys resisting arrest these days? No one
seems to care about the why these cops are put into these situations to
begin with.
Sadly, the cops actually created this situation. It was a sting where they were going to get to him to commit the crime of selling a gun. Why they wanted to create this crime to arrest him, I don't know, but that is how 'these cops are put into these situations'.
I always figured there was enough crime without the police having to create crimes themselves in order to catch 'bad guys'.
seems to care about the why these cops are put into these situations to
begin with.
Sadly, the cops actually created this situation. It was a sting where they were going to get to him to commit the crime of selling a gun. Why they wanted to create this crime to arrest him, I don't know, but that is how 'these cops are put into these situations'.
I always figured there was enough crime without the police having to create crimes themselves in order to catch 'bad guys'.
I think this is true of wanna-be cops. Most cops I know don't enjoy shooting their guns. Most only shoot them at the firing range the required minimum to stay certified. I know a large number of cops, by far the majority of them have never had to fire their weapon while on duty, more than 50% of them have never even taken it from their holster.
Most cops are not gun nuts. There are some who are, but that certainly isn't true of all cops. Now I certainly give you that the wanna-be's certainly do. I know a number of gun nuts who I think secretly hope they see a violent crime in front of them so that they get to shoot a "perp". They certainly fantasize about the situation happening and discuss how it would go down all the time.
Why a 73 year old is allowed to be on any sort of active duty is beyond me. Why he was on duty as an armed officer is just mind numbing.
And why the heck are folks running to begin with? Why give these people the excuse or opportunity to even pull their weapon? It doesn't excuse the shootings in any way, but dang, figure it out. Do NOT run. Some of these cops are crazy, or incompetent, or just dumb. You want to give them an "excuse"?
The audio tape of the cops surrounding that cop in North Charleston and the conversation right after the murder of that man was chilling. The triggerman is not the only one who should face charges.
And why the heck are folks running to begin with? Why give these people the excuse or opportunity to even pull their weapon? It doesn't excuse the shootings in any way, but dang, figure it out. Do NOT run. Some of these cops are crazy, or incompetent, or just dumb. You want to give them an "excuse"?
The audio tape of the cops surrounding that cop in North Charleston and the conversation right after the murder of that man was chilling. The triggerman is not the only one who should face charges.
The next time a bunch of kids scatter and run from a
house party where their underage drinking, I hope every single one of
them gets gunned down.
Why not just the ones fleeing arrest warrants?
"Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning. Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom." - Ludwig von Mises
Make a law that a man has to pay for his progeny and I think the rest is in some sense almost inevitable. There will be someone, somewhere who is so unwilling to come to grips with the responsibilty society and his actions have created that he will resist, and that resistance will be met with force. Someone will push the confration up the police's 'force contiuum and find his butt shot.
If you can't manage to avoid having a warrant for your arrest issued I would suggest complying with police orders when encountering them to provide yourself the best chance of escaping the scene with your life.
I think the officer was not justified in this instance, but I think if you create combustible situations frequently enough you'll get explosions some of the time.
house party where their underage drinking, I hope every single one of
them gets gunned down.
Why not just the ones fleeing arrest warrants?
"Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning. Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom." - Ludwig von Mises
Make a law that a man has to pay for his progeny and I think the rest is in some sense almost inevitable. There will be someone, somewhere who is so unwilling to come to grips with the responsibilty society and his actions have created that he will resist, and that resistance will be met with force. Someone will push the confration up the police's 'force contiuum and find his butt shot.
If you can't manage to avoid having a warrant for your arrest issued I would suggest complying with police orders when encountering them to provide yourself the best chance of escaping the scene with your life.
I think the officer was not justified in this instance, but I think if you create combustible situations frequently enough you'll get explosions some of the time.
I have a pretty unique perspective on LEO. I'm a son of a retired state trooper, nothing more gut wrenching than your father not coming home when his midnight or 1 AM shift was over and there was no phone call for hours. A lot of our family friends were LEOs and I've been working w/ LEO for 15 years. I've heard a lot of stories in the confidence of the "blue wall of silence" of some great cops and a lot about some sh!tty awful LEOs and people. From racism, sexism, homophobia, to bullying inside and outside the agency to aggressive and borderline psychotic behavior. Police officer are a microcosm of society except their a group of "highly trained" individuals that are supposed to determine and assert the level of force needed in any given situation. It's a damn difficult job and I do not begrudge a police officer who just wants to come home and hug and kiss his family when his shift is over.
An issued warrant is a fairly broad definition. You can have an arrest warrant for having a suspended license or a suspect in a crime or back child support. If you're from a community where police officers are viewed as bullies, thugs, over aggressive and you've grown up hearing stories about such behavior or you've witnessed such actions, running isn't out of the ordinary. Now, there's a larger portion of people who flee b/c they don't want to go back to prison or are truly awful people but it's up to the highly trained police officer to instantly assert the level of force needed and use the tools and training to a.) make it home to their family safely and b.) dole out proper justice for the system to determine.
A man running away from you b/c he owes back child support doesn't warrant being shot 8 times in the back. A man reaching for his DL doesn't warrant getting a clip unloaded on him. A man resisting arrest doesn't need to be choked to death. A man carrying a BB gun in a Wal-Mart doesn't need to be gunned down b/c you failed to determine the level of force needed. A man who's being detained w/ 3 cops putting cuffs on him shouldn't even be tazed (you're endangering the officers in contact w/ the suspect) and he definitely doesn't deserve to be shot in the back (regardless of if he's a POS scum).
My dad was one of the lead trainers for guys at the academy for their CQC training and he used to always complain how a lot of the guys were "wussies" and too afraid to fight a 50 year old man. I was recently talking about this with my dad and he said the guys his age in law enforcement were former military and it instantly reminded me of the commercial airline pilots who had 1000s of hours in combat training and actual hours for the Air Force (now most of them are just people who pass the test to become a pilot). A lot of the retired cops or older cops were some hardcore guys who had legitimate hand to hand combat training and now, the training is very watered down due to pushing people through to fulfill needs (there's a good portion of LEOs that are former Gulf War vets, Iraq vets and Afghan vets most of the guys I've met over the years w/ current military experience aren't beat cops, their SWAT, Narco and other tactical unit members).
There's an inherit distrust of law enforcement officers in specific areas around the country and that needs to be explored. I went on a ride along where the police officer told me "we're going to take you to the projects to go get into some trouble and show you some action" and these types of comments stick w/ you growing up. I also highly doubt it's an isolated instance.
Not only do LEOs have to deal w/ the possibility that they might not get to go home to their families (and that messes w/ your head), their also being pushed by politicians who push their captains who push them for pumping out statistics, to reduce statistical crime rates and to have high profile cases. When police officers are pushed for stats and big arrest you put good cops in bad situations and you give bad cops an excuse to be bullies.
There's an inherit distrust of law enforcement officers
in specific areas around the country and that needs to be explored.
National Geographic explores the drug war all the time on their channel.
If I was slinging weed from my front stoop I would 'distrust' cops more than I already do... jus' sayin'
in specific areas around the country and that needs to be explored.
National Geographic explores the drug war all the time on their channel.
If I was slinging weed from my front stoop I would 'distrust' cops more than I already do... jus' sayin'
Huh?
This is why legit discussions can't be had. You honestly think I was discussing the criminal element that distrust law enforcement officers?
There's a growing contingent that is getting vocal against the militarization and gross over-use of power by our LEO, and it's coming out of the Libertarian Party. Those are not people "slinging weed from their front stoop".
You honestly
think I was discussing the criminal element that distrust law
enforcement officers?
We're all criminals. Some are just easier to expose. A cop rides around my neighborhood for 8 hours he might find an HOA violation for a visible trash recepticle outside of trash pick up day, but that's not his bailiwick. All kinds of 'crimes' are underway, they're just harder to spot.
In the case of the guy who was shot by Junior Deputy For A Day the cops setup the entire crime of him selling a gun, and he took off. I wish cops wouldn't spend their time creating crimes like this. I think there are enough actual crimes they could be trying to address without creating tragedies.
So what'd you find in the projects on your ride along? Any low hanging fruit? Any 'action'?
think I was discussing the criminal element that distrust law
enforcement officers?
We're all criminals. Some are just easier to expose. A cop rides around my neighborhood for 8 hours he might find an HOA violation for a visible trash recepticle outside of trash pick up day, but that's not his bailiwick. All kinds of 'crimes' are underway, they're just harder to spot.
In the case of the guy who was shot by Junior Deputy For A Day the cops setup the entire crime of him selling a gun, and he took off. I wish cops wouldn't spend their time creating crimes like this. I think there are enough actual crimes they could be trying to address without creating tragedies.
So what'd you find in the projects on your ride along? Any low hanging fruit? Any 'action'?
Good post Rhino. I hate that it seems you're often forced to choose a side. I can't. I recognize that there are really good cops and really bad cops, and a whole lot of in between. I recognize that there are people who are abused by cops and there are people who deserve exactly what they get. Not every cop shooting is racist, at the same time, not every person harassed by the cops deserves it. We should be able to discuss the fact that there are things cops do that are wrong sometimes its because they're terrible people, other times because they simply got scared and overreacted. I'm not anti-police because I admit that sometimes they get it wrong.
If their department buy their tazers from Tazer International ,(most likely they and every leo departments in America does too), the tazer along with a holster come and a suggestion to always wear their tazer on the gun(dominant) side. Seems to me that He still would have time to think if the situation warranted a taze or not. The situation was never a life or death situation , but it was just odd . Just saying.
This post was edited on 4/14 3:35 PM by kojak309
This post was edited on 4/14 3:35 PM by kojak309
The tazer and the gun feel very similar when pulling it from your holster. I could see an undertrained person grabbing the wrong item with adrenaline running and shooting before he realized it was incorrect.
That doesn't negate the fact that this situation didn't necessitate a taze, much less a gun shot. So there was no reason for either weapon to be fired. I could see having it pulled just in case he gained the upper hand in the tussle, but at that time there were several officers on the man getting him cuffed.
Secondy, its just generally a bad idea to let a 73 year old untrained man carry a weapon and make those kinds of decisions. At best you need to treat him as Barney Fife. Give him one bullet that he keeps in his pocket. If he truly needs it, he can take the time to load before firing.
That doesn't negate the fact that this situation didn't necessitate a taze, much less a gun shot. So there was no reason for either weapon to be fired. I could see having it pulled just in case he gained the upper hand in the tussle, but at that time there were several officers on the man getting him cuffed.
Secondy, its just generally a bad idea to let a 73 year old untrained man carry a weapon and make those kinds of decisions. At best you need to treat him as Barney Fife. Give him one bullet that he keeps in his pocket. If he truly needs it, he can take the time to load before firing.
It's different for a bunch of kids at a party to haul butt than it is for a adult pulled over in a car and taking off when the cop has their identity, it makes you wonder what they have done so bad. Cops do live in fear and I wouldn't want to risk what might be going through their heads when I take off. My son in law is a cop and i worry about him all the time, thank goodness he just got promoted to investigator. I just don't want to put myself in even the remotest of situations to die, if I say yes sir no sir and don't resist he probably won't shoot me. When you are dead who cares whose fault it is?Originally posted by Rhino_nole:
The next time a bunch of kids scatter and run from a house party where their underage drinking, I hope every single one of them gets gunned down.
Goldmom is spot-on. Some toddling old fool is riding around playing JV cop? Beyond absurd.
And never give a cop a reason to beat or shoot you. Most of them are itching for the chance to do just that.
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