Could be a big news day for Florida

[fsu127]

Huh? Nursing homes and the people running them were responsible for coming up with plans for protecting the residents there not governors. This sounds like a lame attempt to point the finger at democratic governors. Their decisions to lock down the states are not to blame for thousands of death. That's crazy to even say.

Cuomo specifically sent covid patients home to nursing homes in an effort to make room at the hospitals which was not only stupid but an overreaction. He eventually changed that strategy after he was called out on it.

 

[FarmerNole]

Huh? Nursing homes and the people running them were responsible for coming up with plans for protecting the residents there not governors. This sounds like a lame attempt to point the finger at democratic governors. Their decisions to lock down the states are not to blame for thousands of death. That's crazy to even say.

So its crazy to say what Cuomo did to send infected residents back into the nursing homes based on his state policy? Come on. I don't care what party he's representing and never made this about a political party. Continuing to lock states down was my point and its time to open them up and get people back to work. If you're a Governor that's continuing to over correct and lock down, its time to open back up.

 

[NutGraf]

Car wrecks are not contagious.
Lung cancer is not contagious.
Mosquitoes bites are not contagious.

Unless we confine ourselves to intellectually honest discussions about infectious diseases, the rest of this is nonsense.

Here's how this works: Your neighbor goes to the gym and to a bar, where she is exposed to coronavirus. She then goes to work at her neighborhood nursing home. For a week, she shows no symptoms, and does not run a fever. The home fails to comply with airborne precautions, and insists that she reuse her protective gown. She infects three colleagues and 12 patients. Half of the patients die. Rinse and repeat.

This is what is happening at 3,800 long-term care facilities across Florida, which in recent days have accounted for nearly 80 percent of COVID-related deaths.

When any one of us behaves irresponsibly, we run the risk of causing extensive collateral damage. We are not merely taking risks for ourselves, but for everyone with whom we come in contact.

Let me virtue signal for some of you, because when I grew up, decency wasn't considered something to be ashamed of. I care about whether the old, sick and disabled people in my neighborhood live or die. As well as children, some of whom now are acquiring a COVID-related pediatric inflammatory disease that can cause damage to several organs, including the heart.

I certainly would like to go back to a normal routine. I do not wish for a tanking economy. I have several friends who were laid off or furloughed, and I hope they can get back to work soon. My company is in bankruptcy, and there is no guarantee I'll have a job by July.

Nobody on the public health side of this equation is minimizing the social and economic damage of this monster.

All I desire is some small acknowledgement of shared destiny and common interest.

Do they no longer teach that in church or Sunday school?

 

[Seminole Life]

Who says the hospitals are largely empty? Where? I'm sure in certain states the hospitals aren't struggling but many hospitals around the country have gone through pure hell.

I was in two hospitals in Polk county over the last 3 weeks and there was no one in the ER and no one in the other hospital for my procedure

 

[Seminole Life]

Its simply really. Hospital capacity, medical personnel, and PPE.

Just look to New York, Italy, Mexico City...

With out the extraordinary measures taken the virus spreads at a rapid rate and the system is overwhelmed. As long as we can handle the number of individuals getting severely sick we can continue to open up. If we get over run again we will have to take more measures.

This is why we are going slow. Remember it takes 10-14 days before you know what your impacts are to your decisions. And you can help to open things up by still respecting this crisis and even though you can move about more freely you might consider if its necessary. You might just save your opportunity.

We need to strike a good balance and manage our medical capacity.

New York City is very different than 99% of cities in the world with the density and how people commute in masses. They have to act differently than almost everyone... however in central Fl rural area we cannot use NYCs policies

 

[Seminole Life]

Car wrecks are not contagious.
Lung cancer is not contagious.
Mosquitoes bites are not contagious.

Unless we confine ourselves to intellectually honest discussions about infectious diseases, the rest of this is nonsense.

Here's how this works: Your neighbor goes to the gym and to a bar, where she is exposed to coronavirus. She then goes to work at her neighborhood nursing home. For a week, she shows no symptoms, and does not run a fever. The home fails to comply with airborne precautions, and insists that she reuse her protective gown. She infects three colleagues and 12 patients. Half of the patients die. Rinse and repeat.

This is what is happening at 3,800 long-term care facilities across Florida, which in recent days have accounted for nearly 80 percent of COVID-related deaths.

When any one of us behaves irresponsibly, we run the risk of causing extensive collateral damage. We are not merely taking risks for ourselves, but for everyone with whom we come in contact.

Let me virtue signal for some of you, because when I grew up, decency wasn't considered something to be ashamed of. I care about whether the old, sick and disabled people in my neighborhood live or die. As well as children, some of whom now are acquiring a COVID-related pediatric inflammatory disease that can cause damage to several organs, including the heart.

I certainly would like to go back to a normal routine. I do not wish for a tanking economy. I have several friends who were laid off or furloughed, and I hope they can get back to work soon. My company is in bankruptcy, and there is no guarantee I'll have a job by July.

Nobody on the public health side of this equation is minimizing the social and economic damage of this monster.

All I desire is some small acknowledgement of shared destiny and common interest.

Do they no longer teach that in church or Sunday school?

Fact remains tough decisions have to made. We cannot ruin the economy for the next 5 years or more because of this. We have to figure out a way to keep people who can work working and take care of the vulnerable. Personally I have been lucky enough to keep my job but have also been working and out since this started. I also have no issue with staying home a bit more and wearing masks when needed like the grocery store or Lowe’s. The problem is there are many people who will still not do even these small things. People who refuse to wear a mask in stores just frustrate the hell out of me. If I wear a mask and it helps prevent someone that’s older or at risk I’m very happy to do that.

my point with my post was people pick and choose their hills to battle on it seems. No doubt that this would have been worse had we not taken the measures we did but there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. What if a vaccine never comes? In that case we are just killing the economy forever by this and need a new direction

 

[bigeasynole]

For myself, I am 71 and I'm staying inside until I fell it's safe to go back out. I will say that I think there is more to this shut down that meets the eye. As northvanole said there are many more people from other causes and the government never shut down the economy. So why now?

I think this shutdown was just a trial run for whatever "they" have planned next.

 

[gwgwi]

Huh? Nursing homes and the people running them were responsible for coming up with plans for protecting the residents there not governors. This sounds like a lame attempt to point the finger at democratic governors. Their decisions to lock down the states are not to blame for thousands of death. That's crazy to even say.

Read more. Nursing home policy was totally fouled up in a couple of states. One okayed liability protection for nursing homes just last month. Hmmm

 

[Deerfuel2]

Huh? Nursing homes and the people running them were responsible for coming up with plans for protecting the residents there not governors. This sounds like a lame attempt to point the finger at democratic governors. Their decisions to lock down the states are not to blame for thousands of death. That's crazy to even say.

A hit dog will holler.
Why in the world would you make this political. The dumbass politicians on both sides have completely screwed this whole thing up. The economy must be opened up immediately. That is not political, unless you want to make it political.

 

[sflanoleman]

A hit dog will holler.
Why in the world would you make this political. The dumbass politicians on both sides have completely screwed this whole thing up. The economy must be opened up immediately. That is not political, unless you want to make it political.

Whether the economy must open up full bore immediately is a matter of debate. He made it political with a subtle statement about governors who were quicker to to lock things down being responsible for nursing home deaths. Come on. No one is stupid. We know that more of the democratic governors were quicker about imposing restrictions when this thing started and Republican governors were slower about reacting. That's not blaming anyone for anything, its just true. Trying to subtly point a finger without directly saying something doesn't fly over everyone's head.

 

[Deerfuel2]

Whether the economy must open up full bore immediately is a matter of debate. He made it political with a subtle statement about governors who were quicker to to lock things down being responsible for nursing home deaths. Come on. No one is stupid. We know that more of the democratic governors were quicker about imposing restrictions when this thing started and Republican governors were slower about reacting. That's not blaming anyone for anything, its just true. Trying to subtly point a finger without directly saying something doesn't fly over everyone's head.

You have obviously picked a side, and are believing and doing what your political leaders are telling you.
I am completely apolitical about this. It's a common sense discussion, not a political discussion. There is enough information out there, for me to make my own decision, regardless of what any politician or media hack says

 

[mjpwooo]

I remember you and I emailed each other a while back... But I can't recall why. I hope your work will resume.

Your post is compassionate and I don't disagree with many of your points.

But I DO think some are ignoring the social and economic repurcussions. There's going to be MILLIONS of people who's lives will be (already are) negatively impacted and that is immeasurable. That calculus is NOT factored in to many people who say what you typed. It must be.

This terrible see-saw balancing act sucks. Tens of thousands of vulnerable lives vs millions of 'non vulnerable' lives.

You mentioned church... I have missed going to church. I missed Easter with a full church. What if this was my last Easter on earth...spending a majority of my Holy Week in my living room. And what of the 90yo folks at my church (the vulnerable) who were robbed of what may be more likely their last Easter... And WANTED to be in a congregation, willingly.

I am not replying to you in an instigating tone... And I hope you can tell.

Last, and NOT directed at you, Nutgraf. It seems many are interested in being right, not the truth. I am guilty of this too. We all need to search for the truth with this. It is difficult.

Car wrecks are not contagious.
Lung cancer is not contagious.
Mosquitoes bites are not contagious.

Unless we confine ourselves to intellectually honest discussions about infectious diseases, the rest of this is nonsense.

Here's how this works: Your neighbor goes to the gym and to a bar, where she is exposed to coronavirus. She then goes to work at her neighborhood nursing home. For a week, she shows no symptoms, and does not run a fever. The home fails to comply with airborne precautions, and insists that she reuse her protective gown. She infects three colleagues and 12 patients. Half of the patients die. Rinse and repeat.

This is what is happening at 3,800 long-term care facilities across Florida, which in recent days have accounted for nearly 80 percent of COVID-related deaths.

When any one of us behaves irresponsibly, we run the risk of causing extensive collateral damage. We are not merely taking risks for ourselves, but for everyone with whom we come in contact.

Let me virtue signal for some of you, because when I grew up, decency wasn't considered something to be ashamed of. I care about whether the old, sick and disabled people in my neighborhood live or die. As well as children, some of whom now are acquiring a COVID-related pediatric inflammatory disease that can cause damage to several organs, including the heart.

I certainly would like to go back to a normal routine. I do not wish for a tanking economy. I have several friends who were laid off or furloughed, and I hope they can get back to work soon. My company is in bankruptcy, and there is no guarantee I'll have a job by July.

Nobody on the public health side of this equation is minimizing the social and economic damage of this monster.

All I desire is some small acknowledgement of shared destiny and common interest.

Do they no longer teach that in church or Sunday school?

 

[nutmegnole]

Who says the hospitals are largely empty? Where? I'm sure in certain states the hospitals aren't struggling but many hospitals around the country have gone through pure hell.

"Many" is absolutely false.
Some inner city hospitals-in dense population centers-struggled, but got through a surge that was far less than faulty models predicted.

On the contrary, many, many hospitals have had greatly reduced occupancy caused by elimination of elective procedures and too many persons, driven by fear, staying away from emergency departments and hospitals, even when experiencing serious illnesses and with multiple serious co-morbidities.
Even in the heavily impacted tri-state, numerous hospitals have issued massive furloughs and are now in severe financial distress.

 

[sflanoleman]

Read more. Nursing home policy was totally fouled up in a couple of states. One okayed liability protection for nursing homes just last month. Hmmm

But the statement I originally replied to wasn't blaming in faulty nursing home policy. He said governors locking things down early on were to blame and many of the thousands of deaths at nursing homes lie at their feet. Had he blamed faulty nursing home policy I would have agreed. But blaming massive numbers of deaths on governors who started reacting and shutting things down is wrong.

 

[sflanoleman]

You have obviously picked a side, and are believing and doing what your political leaders are telling you.
I am completely apolitical about this. It's a common sense discussion, not a political discussion. There is enough information out there, for me to make my own decision, regardless of what any politician or media hack says

But the guy blaming "lock down happy governors" (as he called them) for thousands of deaths isn't picking a side?? I haven't picked sides by saying that his statement is false and ridiculous. Most of the governors who were reacting early and locking things down were Democratic governors. Again, that's not choosing sides, it's just stating facts. Even conservative networks would acknowledge that. Blaming certain governors for thousands of deaths is what is called choosing sides.

 

[KMeyersNC]

New York City is very different than 99% of cities in the world with the density and how people commute in masses. They have to act differently than almost everyone... however in central Fl rural area we cannot use NYCs policies

Not sure why you think my statement imply's that a central policy should be in place for all places, dense and rural.

Hospitals are also different area to area.

However, there is so much we still do not know about this virus. While most young and health people are not severely effected this is not true in all cases. Some very healthy and young individuals or even children are struck by this and hospitalized. Fortunately many of these cases are happening in areas that have hospitals that are able to treat them.

My statement still stands, this is being managed (hopefully) to the capacity of our state/regional medical systems. Hopefully when restrictions are lifted we will have an educated population that will continue to wash hands, wear masks, social distance, and limit travel until we have an effective mitigation strategy (like a vaccine). If we don't continue precautions, even as we expand reducing restrictions, there is a large risk we end up right back where we started.

 

[FarmerNole]

Car wrecks are not contagious.
Lung cancer is not contagious.
Mosquitoes bites are not contagious.

Unless we confine ourselves to intellectually honest discussions about infectious diseases, the rest of this is nonsense.

Here's how this works: Your neighbor goes to the gym and to a bar, where she is exposed to coronavirus. She then goes to work at her neighborhood nursing home. For a week, she shows no symptoms, and does not run a fever. The home fails to comply with airborne precautions, and insists that she reuse her protective gown. She infects three colleagues and 12 patients. Half of the patients die. Rinse and repeat.

This is what is happening at 3,800 long-term care facilities across Florida, which in recent days have accounted for nearly 80 percent of COVID-related deaths.

When any one of us behaves irresponsibly, we run the risk of causing extensive collateral damage. We are not merely taking risks for ourselves, but for everyone with whom we come in contact.

Let me virtue signal for some of you, because when I grew up, decency wasn't considered something to be ashamed of. I care about whether the old, sick and disabled people in my neighborhood live or die. As well as children, some of whom now are acquiring a COVID-related pediatric inflammatory disease that can cause damage to several organs, including the heart.

I certainly would like to go back to a normal routine. I do not wish for a tanking economy. I have several friends who were laid off or furloughed, and I hope they can get back to work soon. My company is in bankruptcy, and there is no guarantee I'll have a job by July.

Nobody on the public health side of this equation is minimizing the social and economic damage of this monster.

All I desire is some small acknowledgement of shared destiny and common interest.

Do they no longer teach that in church or Sunday school?

I agree 100% with you with respect to taking care of those who are vulnerable. Especially those in the nursing homes. They have given their best selves to make this country what it is. But it’s also true that we can’t continue in a virtual lock down mode like many states have. Not without other serious consequences to people who are struggling to keep their financial heads above water.

The beauty of our democracy is we don’t have to agree. That’s a beautiful thing about living in this country. And Fwiw, the fine people in those locked down states can support those governors by voting them back into office. Or may be not if they disagree.

 

[Seminole Life]

Not sure why you think my statement imply's that a central policy should be in place for all places, dense and rural.

Hospitals are also different area to area.

However, there is so much we still do not know about this virus. While most young and health people are not severely effected this is not true in all cases. Some very healthy and young individuals or even children are struck by this and hospitalized. Fortunately many of these cases are happening in areas that have hospitals that are able to treat them.

My statement still stands, this is being managed (hopefully) to the capacity of our state/regional medical systems. Hopefully when restrictions are lifted we will have an educated population that will continue to wash hands, wear masks, social distance, and limit travel until we have an effective mitigation strategy (like a vaccine). If we don't continue precautions, even as we expand reducing restrictions, there is a large risk we end up right back where we started.

I don’t disagree with most of that either. I just think we have to keep the economy moving but people in particular need to step up and do the right things like you mentioned. I have no issue wearing a mask in certain places and staying home more.

 

[nutmegnole]

Not sure why you think my statement imply's that a central policy should be in place for all places, dense and rural.

Hospitals are also different area to area.

However, there is so much we still do not know about this virus. While most young and health people are not severely effected this is not true in all cases. Some very healthy and young individuals or even children are struck by this and hospitalized. Fortunately many of these cases are happening in areas that have hospitals that are able to treat them.

My statement still stands, this is being managed (hopefully) to the capacity of our state/regional medical systems. Hopefully when restrictions are lifted we will have an educated population that will continue to wash hands, wear masks, social distance, and limit travel until we have an effective mitigation strategy (like a vaccine). If we don't continue precautions, even as we expand reducing restrictions, there is a large risk we end up right back where we started.

I concur that we are still learning about this virus, but rather than being dependent on models, we have been accumulating real data.

Very, very, very few of the young and healthy are impacted adversely by infection.
A student at FSU, without any underlying serious illness, will have a greater chance of being struck by lightening than of dying from COVID-19 infection.
And deaths are extremely rare for the general US population under 65 and otherwise healthy.

Here in Connecticut school systems did not shut down until the second week of March (when the virus was already spreading in the tri-state, and nationwide), including in highly impacted Fairfield and New Haven counties (closer proximity to New York City). Those school districts were not ravaged by infection, hospitalizations and deaths.
Some have reported no hospitalizations at all.

Cases will increase with widespread testing, as we are seeing. But how many of those new "cases" have serious illness and are hospitalized? Hospitalizations are declining, steeply in Connecticut. That is the metric we need to follow closely as various parts of the country open.

With more widespread (accurate) antibody testing we will also be able to record how many people have been infected and recovered after experiencing a relatively mild illness . . . or no symptoms at all, highlighting the development of herd immunity.

IMO we need to dispassionately look at real data and statistics, stop being driven by fear of an infection that the vast majority of us will easily survive, and pivot to quarantining the old and vulnerable rather than the healthy, as we study therapeutics and vaccines that will ultimately protect the truly at risk in the population.

 

[mjpwooo]

 

[KMeyersNC]

I concur that we are still learning about this virus, but rather than being dependent on models, we have been accumulating real data.

Very, very, very few of the young and healthy are impacted adversely by infection.
A student at FSU, without any underlying serious illness, will have a greater chance of being struck by lightening than of dying from COVID-19 infection.
And deaths are extremely rare for the general US population under 65 and otherwise healthy.

Here in Connecticut school systems did not shut down until the second week of March (when the virus was already spreading in the tri-state, and nationwide), including in highly impacted Fairfield and New Haven counties (closer proximity to New York City). Those school districts were not ravaged by infection, hospitalizations and deaths.
Some have reported no hospitalizations at all.

Cases will increase with widespread testing, as we are seeing. But how many of those new "cases" have serious illness and are hospitalized? Hospitalizations are declining, steeply in Connecticut. That is the metric we need to follow closely as various parts of the country open.

With more widespread (accurate) antibody testing we will also be able to record how many people have been infected and recovered after experiencing a relatively mild illness . . . or no symptoms at all, highlighting the development of herd immunity.

IMO we need to dispassionately look at real data and statistics, stop being driven by fear of an infection that the vast majority of us will easily survive, and pivot to quarantining the old and vulnerable rather than the healthy, as we study therapeutics and vaccines that will ultimately protect the truly at risk in the population.

Collecting data is prudent.

While not certain, it is likely that we will have a pause in the spread of the virus. Less likely is that it will just go away. While there are many unknowns, we do know that the virus has an incubation period of about 2 weeks. Therefore we know we can not make a policy change then immediately monitor the affect. Phased approach seems wise.

We also have history with similar infections to know that there is a possibility that COVID-19 could come back even stronger in multiple waves. It would be crazy to not account for that possibility and plan for it.

Here is a chart of the 1918 flu waves. I did not spend a bunch of time checking to see if its accurate, but it looks similar to other charts I have seen. If our winter could really look like that, would you not want your government to plan for such a contingency with out just dismissing it as being driven by fear?

Currently we have over 1.45 million confirmed cases in the USA and our 5 day average is up (as I type this). https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

The overall trend does not seem to have turned yet, but as I have stated before I don't feel qualified to make any judgement. I am just looking at the chart and see a line that is still trending up. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

I also find it difficult to understand the logic behind your statement.

IMO we need to dispassionately look at real data and statistics, stop being driven by fear of an infection that the vast majority of us will easily survive, and pivot to quarantining the old and vulnerable rather than the healthy, as we study therapeutics and vaccines that will ultimately protect the truly at risk in the population.
​

How does a virus discriminate between those in isolation and those who choose to take a risk when we all interact to survive? The weaker among us are especially dependent on others to survive.

 

[KMeyersNC]

View embedded media

View embedded media

I had to look up Justin Hart as I did not know who he was.

From his LinkedIn profile.

About
Senior executive, membership funnel specialist and chief digital strategist with over 20 years driving successful campaigns and innovations for Fortune 500 companies, start-ups and political campaigns. Raised millions of dollars for VC-funded firms and Presidential candidates alike. Recognized for his above-the-noise approaches bridging digital frontiers with traditional sales and business models and driving membership success for high end, high household income prospects. ​

 

[mjpwooo]

He's not a viroloogist or epidemiologist. Just a data and stats guy. Has thrown several data/numbers based charts and graphs on his feed. I assume he's taking legit numbers and making his case.

I am almost certain he worked with and/or on the Romney campaign.

 

[Deerfuel2]

I had to look up Justin Hart as I did not know who he was.

From his LinkedIn profile.

About
Senior executive, membership funnel specialist and chief digital strategist with over 20 years driving successful campaigns and innovations for Fortune 500 companies, start-ups and political campaigns. Raised millions of dollars for VC-funded firms and Presidential candidates alike. Recognized for his above-the-noise approaches bridging digital frontiers with traditional sales and business models and driving membership success for high end, high household income prospects. ​

Sounds like he's a real dumbass. Someone probably has to tie his shoes for him in the morning. He could not possibly have enough intelligence to make a reasonable opinion from the vast amount of data that is already out there on this disease....

 

[Deerfuel2]

Collecting data is prudent.

While not certain, it is likely that we will have a pause in the spread of the virus. Less likely is that it will just go away. While there are many unknowns, we do know that the virus has an incubation period of about 2 weeks. Therefore we know we can not make a policy change then immediately monitor the affect. Phased approach seems wise.

We also have history with similar infections to know that there is a possibility that COVID-19 could come back even stronger in multiple waves. It would be crazy to not account for that possibility and plan for it.

Here is a chart of the 1918 flu waves. I did not spend a bunch of time checking to see if its accurate, but it looks similar to other charts I have seen. If our winter could really look like that, would you not want your government to plan for such a contingency with out just dismissing it as being driven by fear?

Currently we have over 1.45 million confirmed cases in the USA and our 5 day average is up (as I type this). https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

The overall trend does not seem to have turned yet, but as I have stated before I don't feel qualified to make any judgement. I am just looking at the chart and see a line that is still trending up. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

I also find it difficult to understand the logic behind your statement.

IMO we need to dispassionately look at real data and statistics, stop being driven by fear of an infection that the vast majority of us will easily survive, and pivot to quarantining the old and vulnerable rather than the healthy, as we study therapeutics and vaccines that will ultimately protect the truly at risk in the population.
​

How does a virus discriminate between those in isolation and those who choose to take a risk when we all interact to survive? The weaker among us are especially dependent on others to survive.

It's obvious that your mind is already made up. Stay hidden. Just don't try to pull other people down to your level.
As more testing is done every day, of course the trend could go up. It's simple math. The percent positive, have fallen like a Willie Taggart coached football team

 

[KMeyersNC]

Sounds like he's a real dumbass. Someone probably has to tie his shoes for him in the morning. He could not possibly have enough intelligence to make a reasonable opinion from the vast amount of data that is already out there on this disease....

Or maybe he is paid to take data and convince people to view a topic a particular way. Seems to be quite successful.

 

[KMeyersNC]

It's obvious that your mind is already made up. Stay hidden. Just don't try to pull other people down to your level.
As more testing is done every day, of course the trend could go up. It's simple math. The percent positive, have fallen like a Willie Taggart coached football team

I thought I was on a discussion board. I tried to contribute with links to data and state observations.

Not sure what you mean by down to my level.

 

[mjpwooo]

Or maybe he is paid to take data and convince people to view a topic a particular way. Seems to be quite successful.

KM, I'm not here to argue with you at all. I will ask you a question... Do you have numbers that refute what he's saying? Justin isn't making numbers up.

I also know that I WANT to believe that he's right, which clouds my judgment.

 

[nutmegnole]

Collecting data is prudent.

While not certain, it is likely that we will have a pause in the spread of the virus. Less likely is that it will just go away. While there are many unknowns, we do know that the virus has an incubation period of about 2 weeks. Therefore we know we can not make a policy change then immediately monitor the affect. Phased approach seems wise.

We also have history with similar infections to know that there is a possibility that COVID-19 could come back even stronger in multiple waves. It would be crazy to not account for that possibility and plan for it.

Here is a chart of the 1918 flu waves. I did not spend a bunch of time checking to see if its accurate, but it looks similar to other charts I have seen. If our winter could really look like that, would you not want your government to plan for such a contingency with out just dismissing it as being driven by fear?

Currently we have over 1.45 million confirmed cases in the USA and our 5 day average is up (as I type this). https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

The overall trend does not seem to have turned yet, but as I have stated before I don't feel qualified to make any judgement. I am just looking at the chart and see a line that is still trending up. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

I also find it difficult to understand the logic behind your statement.

IMO we need to dispassionately look at real data and statistics, stop being driven by fear of an infection that the vast majority of us will easily survive, and pivot to quarantining the old and vulnerable rather than the healthy, as we study therapeutics and vaccines that will ultimately protect the truly at risk in the population.
​

How does a virus discriminate between those in isolation and those who choose to take a risk when we all interact to survive? The weaker among us are especially dependent on others to survive.

There is too much here to comment on, and you present a mix of fair points and misstatements or misinterpretations.
I'll add that this is what I do every day-at least since late February when usual health care morphed into 'all Covid all the time'.
I don't want to get into a debate about this on a sports message board, which should be and usually is a pleasant escape. But I will gladly discuss these issues further with you off line if you wish.

 

[KMeyersNC]

KM, I'm not here to argue with you at all. I will ask you a question... Do you have numbers that refute what he's saying? Justin isn't making numbers up.

I also know that I WANT to believe that he's right, which clouds my judgment.

Not looking for a fight. And I never made the statement that he was making up anything. I simply pointed out that he was a strategist or influencer.

I have used real numbers in the past to demonstrate what I wanted to convey.

I have pointed out the issues in other threads with comparing the way we track COVID 19 vs the way we track the flu (if you are interested check here)

To be clear I am not trying to make a case that we need to stay locked down. I am making a case that everyone should take this seriously and hope that those in charge are taking advantage of those who do study this stuff and not dismiss what they have to say because we would like an alternate reality.

Put me in the camp of "I really hope there is a football season this year". I too want to go back to normal. But I also want my government planning for likely scenarios. Not the same as hoping we stay shut down or even arguing for it. I also feel that regional planing makes sense.

With proper planning I do feel like we can open up, but I would not be truthful if I said it does not concern me that many completely dismiss the dangers associated with a virus that the world (not just the US) has shut down for.