De'Andre Johnson video SIAP

[CallawayNole]

Understand the decision to boot the kid. PR nightmare if you don't.

BUT...

Where I come from, if you throw a punch you should expect it to be returned in kind. You can't watch that video and not see that the young lady escalated that situatuion. She was the aggressor. You can't charge him with anything if you don't charge her...

 

[coolguy100]

I took this same approach on my home board(Louisville) and my opinion did not go over very well.

I watched the video, and the woman was clearly the aggressor. Yeah, I know she's a chic. That doesn't give her a pass to punch someone; I don't care how "weak" she is. Everywhere I look now I get women's equality thrown in my face and this sloppy broad got a fair lesson in equality. Spare me the argument of what a "gentleman" would have done. She carried herself poorly with no class, and therefore did not deserve a gentleman's response.

Dude...get a grip.
there is no gender equity in a fist fight, DJ is a grown fit powerful man who is able to compete with the best in college football.
The woman is big boned yes, but not able to handle a man with type of power.
He should have known that, if not, then he is dangerous.
There are few women, if any, that could handle me and I am 46 and not a college football player, not a muscle head ect, but am much more powerful than say her.
btw...I doubt there are few in this forum that could handle a man of that age/strength....she had no chance

second point

How is it more important that you don't tell the coach the truth, then tell the authorities the truth, or hit a woman in a bar....
Coach Fisher is not any more important than anyone else. He is just a man, and he runs the football team.
He should have been kick off the team for the actions, lying is of course what people who hit women do.


third point....

all those who are working on this idea that he should be back on the team in a year....why would the team want him in the locker room...I would not want someone like that, you never know when he will explode...maybe really hurt someone when tempers really run hot.
Not a good scene at all...you have to trust the mentality of a teammate, and at practice people get mad

 

[Spearchucker87]

s

You need glasses or something. At no point does he grab her left arm. She initiated every bit of the contact.

I thought better of it, and I better be careful and rephrase that. Because there is no clear evidence of him having a hold of her left arm, no more than there is clear evidence for those defending him by claiming that her knee punched up into his groin rather than his stomach, to push him away, or that she called him racial slurs instead of yelling 'NO!' twice. Those are claims that the police said they substantiated. But nothing that can be known conclusively by us without other video angles to view, or audio -- only possible to guess based on body language and movement back and forth.

On that final claim, there's nothing useful to be said regarding the claim that she initiated every bit of contact. I've seen the opposite as well, where rival fanbases claim DJ initiated the whole thing.

 

[alaskanseminole]

My issue is not with the actions taken by FSU, given society's double standard and the recent spotlight and subsequent public screwtiny, what choice did they have. My issue is the double standard. If "she" was a "he" would this even be an issue? Furthermore, why wasn't she charged with battery as well; after-all, she was the aggressor.

As for the video itself, let's break it down objectively.

- About 5 seconds in, the woman appears and makes her way to the bar.
- At 7 seconds she turns her head backwards toward Johnson and says something to him (allegedly a racial slur). It appears he's being pushed into her by the crowd off camera behind him.
- At 14 seconds he places his right hand under the edge of the bar and appears to be pulling himself towards it. The woman again turns toward him and says something.
- At 16 seconds she completely turns around and balls up her fist.
- At 18 seconds Johnson grabs her fist and pulls it down (thus preventing her from striking him)
- At 20 seconds she knees him.
- At 21 seconds she punches him.
- At 23 seconds he punches her back and walks away.
- The entire event took place over a 23 second period at a bar.

We have no idea what verbal exchanges took place, but everyone is pretty quick to judge what they would and would not have done. Could he have walked away at 21 seconds? Certainly and probably should have. The secondary point is, does he have to just because she's a woman? I don't know...I've never been in this situation.

At what point does a woman stop being seen as a "lady?"

 

[Bartdog]

There's a good Ira S article on this site I to to sometimes... oh, wait...

also, @alaskanseminole just coined "screwtiny." how cool is that?

 

[tommynole3476]

Another thing about trying to avoid a PR nightmare, is that this was going to end bad for FSU regardless. Heck, if we went the next year without one incident of any kind, I'm sure we'd be seeing articles from the Clay Travis's of the world about how TPD must be doing a better job of keeping stuff quiet for FSU.

vevois, if he lied, I'd have more of a problem with that than the punch. But I've really not seen that 'rumor' floated, not that I have some connections or anything, but if it had any legs I'd think I would have seen it by now. Remember too, the first 'version' of the events were that he got sucker punched by someone, tried to return and missed and hit a girl. So...

As for the video, here's the description of the incident prior to everyone seeing the video:

When the woman raised her arm to stop Johnson from pushing her, he grabbed her arm and continued to push, according to police. The woman told police she then raised her knee to Johnson's midsection to shove him away from her and attempted to strike him with her fist to get him to release his grasp.
Police say Johnson then punched her on the left side of her face before they were separated.
Video was taken at the scene and the victim's account is consistent with the video, authorities say.
The woman suffered bruising under her left eye, swelling to her cheek and upper lip, and a small cut near the bridge of her nose.

The description of her injuries seem pretty consistent with the force of DJ's punch, seeing it didn't give me any kind of new understanding, and it shouldn't have for anyone else either. If anything her version of the story (which this is) is at best misleading, at worst an outright lie.

Here is the description of the Joe Mixon incident:

The alleged victim, Amelia Rae Molitor, suffered broken bones in her face as a result of the fight.
Molitor claims Mixon punched her in the face, resulting in a fractured jaw, fractured cheekbone, fractured sinus and fractured orbit.
The affidavit claims she slapped him before he “struck her on the left side of her face with his closed right fist, knocking her into a table top and then to the ground where she laid motionless. Joe Mixon then left the scene.”

What is there to see? Do we think someone could lovingly stroke someone's face and break it in four places?

If anything, DJ's video should provide context that makes the incident far less severe than Mixon's (in part because we don't know if he had anywhere near as legitimate of a claim of self defense as DJ does).

But if we agree it's not fair, then that's enough for me; that's ultimately what I'm trying to say, that DJ (and FSU in a way) is being treated unfairly in the situation, relative to the severity of his actions.

 

[alaskanseminole]

There's a good Ira S article on this site I to to sometimes... oh, wait...

also, @alaskanseminole just coined "screwtiny." how cool is that?

I'd like to also take this opportunity to coin Fist Swinging University. ...gotta stay ahead of our rivals, right?

[or Female Swatt'n University]

 

[vevois23]

But if we agree it's not fair, then that's enough for me; that's ultimately what I'm trying to say, that DJ (and FSU in a way) is being treated unfairly in the situation, relative to the severity of his actions.

I think we are good then for the most part. I can't comment on the Mixon incident or compare it DJ b/c I have very little knowledge of it outside of the comments in this thread. Based on your posts about it to compare the two, yeah, DJ is getting an unequal treatment for a seemingly lesser altercation.

 

[Rhino_nole]

My biggest issue with this thing needs a touch of backstory. My dad boxed in the military, did the military circuit for a decade and later trained boxers in his small gym. Growing up, he taught me to box instead of throwing a baseball or football. When I got older we would hit up a boxing gym and later I'd gear up and do some sparring in the ring. As my confidence grew I used to let guys get a big punch in (not teeth rattling but a good pop) and it would piss my dad off "what the hell you doin' boy?!?" My thought process was, I'm letting him know he can't phase me, he's weak and his response was "you only have so many punches to take like that." and I thought, he's not going to get that many.

My issue is with this, she's not a threat, at all. So what if she landed a punch, she's weak and feeble. We're not talking Rhonda Rousey here. Unless she's pulling out a knife.

As young black people (and I'm sure it's the same for all races but this point was hammered home by my father mostly b/c of racial slurs) we can't let racial slurs or minor threats ruin our lives. My senior year in high school after getting accepted to FSU, I had an underclassmen try to fight me. Started calling me the n-word and bowing up on me. It took everything my power to not knock his ass out but I also didn't want to ruin my future. It was a hard lesson.

Her punches and words are no threat and now his life has taken a step back and he has to work extra hard to get back to this same spot in his life, that's the true threat.

 

[Spearchucker87]

........ My dad boxed in the military, did the military circuit for a decade and later trained boxers in his small gym. Growing up, he taught me to box instead of throwing a baseball or football.........
As young black people (and I'm sure it's the same for all races but this point was hammered home by my father mostly b/c of racial slurs) we can't let racial slurs or minor threats ruin our lives. ........

Rhino I know you've mentioned where you grew up in the past, yet I can't recall. Wasn't it in the northwest? I've gotten the idea at times that there was more racial taunting in regions that had fewer black people around than there was here in the south where there were lots. Was wondering if your experiences might be a data point supporting that, if you indeed grew up outside the south.

 

[Rhino_nole]

Rhino I know you've mentioned where you grew up in the past, yet I can't recall. Wasn't it in the northwest? I've gotten the idea at times that there was more racial taunting in regions that had fewer black people around than there was here in the south where there were lots. Was wondering if your experiences might be a data point supporting that, if you indeed grew up outside the south.

Lived near the Bay area (Travis AFB) until I was 7-8 and moved to a town outside of Seattle (Tacoma, which was very mixed due to McCord and Fort Lewis AFB but still very rural b/c of the surrounding farming region and low income areas). First time I heard the n-word was from another 8 year old in that area "I hate n-words" (where does an 8 year old hear that). That's why the CBF takes a different meaning for me because I saw it in those small rural towns in Washington St from communities that had no ties to the south. Places like Enumclaw and White River, WA that literally had no more than 1 black person in them (heard a story that the towns split the high school b/c White River didn't want any Native Americans in their school system).

Played a basketball game in White River, my teams ball out of bounds and a kid in the stands had the ball. I'm clapping my hands for it to pass it in and the kid says, loud as hell "I don't hand sh!t over to n-words" and throws the ball over the rails where the ref had to go get it. I went to a pseudo inner city school where our team was 70% black and I remember our family members in unison standing up when they heard it. I remember hearing "yeah eff n-words" coming from the crowd. Police had to be called in, game was suspended, a White River player who's dad was a judge or something (and his family name was on a few streets and buildings) had to talk to the crowed (even though he was talking racist stuff during the game) and we finished up.

 

[Bartdog]

To me that's a problem, the kid shouldn't be punished because of the 'climate' or what's happened (or didn't happen) at FSU, and we don't know he lied to Jimbo at all.

Heck, he may not have even had the chance to lie to Jimbo, as it seems he's been on vacation for a few weeks.

But the video is what caused this ultimately, which is dumb. Sorry, but it is. Mixon at OU is back on the team because his video was suppressed, and Rice got more than two games because his video hit the press (although he may not have been completely forthright, but still). Which is dumb.

When people read "punches woman" do they expect something vastly different from what they end up seeing on the video? The woman Mixon hit had like four fractures in her face, do people really need to see the video of that to know it was wrong? Why does seeing the video make it more wrong?

This guy thinks they need to see the video and he's probably right... at least as a way of explaining why one stayed on the team and the other did not.

 

[tommynole3476]

Ha, funny you mention that article, I'm discussing it with a buddy right now, specifically this part from an Oklahoma beat writer who has seen both:

Some are saying the Mixon tape is worse than the DeAndre Johnson tape, but I disagree. I thought the Johnson video was more graphic. The picture is more up-close from Tallahassee, and Mixon’s response appears more instinctual, which cuts him a little slack, for what that’s worth.

Realize Mixon's victim slapped him with an open hand. If we're going to compare what's instinctual vs what's not, kick to the groin trumps slap, IMO.

Oh, and Mixon broke.her.face.in.four.places.

 

[BelemNole]

Re: self defense. When your 2 yr old throws a tantrum and hits or kicks you can you punch them and claim self defense? No. Why? Because the kid is no threat to you. That girl and her backwards fists was no threat to him. When people say "if she was a guy....equality!!...blah, blah, blah". If she was a guy she would have posed a physical threat to him. But a sloppy drunk girl who can't make a fist? No, laying her out isn't self-defense.

 

[Banditking]

Belem. She is an adult. As long as she's conscious and making bad decisions she is a threat. Maybe she picks up a bottle gouges an eye who knows.

Adults, regArdless of stature should not be legally allowed to punch people.

 

[BelemNole]

Ok, if she picks up a bottle and threatens him with it he can hit her.

 

[tommynole3476]

This kind of feels like that old joke about a woman being a prostitute, like we agree you are one, just disagree for what price, or something like that?

Which to me, means the amount of force used isn't as relevant to the rightness/wrongness of the punch. Just like the accuracy or how flush she was with her kick to the groin doesn't negate it's rightness/wrongness.

 

[Fijimn]

He should have been kicked off the team if it was a man that he hit at Yanni's under the circumstances in that video. If you read the statistics, FSU athletics--especially the football team-has a big problem with getting arrested, but not necessarily prosecuted. It's a legacy that I would like to end....

 

[HulaNole]

Are you implying that they didn't get prosecuted or that they used their right and obtained counsel and you're upset that they still didn't get prosecuted? Or just the arrest #s? I'm guessing the latter. I probably just misunderstood the point you are trying to make in that sentence.

 

[tommynole3476]

He should have been kicked off the team if it was a man that he hit at Yanni's under the circumstances in that video. If you read the statistics, FSU athletics--especially the football team-has a big problem with getting arrested, but not necessarily prosecuted. It's a legacy that I would like to end....

I'd say your issue is with the justice system in general then, not FSU specifically. Maybe FSU and some other schools have better rates when it comes to being prosecuted, but I'd be willing to bet all schools' rates pale in comparison to that of the general population. Meaning, having better representation, usually garners better results for the accused.

I'm assuming you're referencing the outside the lines report that seemed to "expose" FSU and some other schools.

Or you could also ask yourself about why they're arrested to begin with if competent representation results in lack of charges/prosecution?

 

[Banditking]

"Ok, if she picks up a bottle and threatens him with it he can hit her."

That would provide more clarity to the situation. My only real issue with this is the underlying drive of treating women like they are not adults. They are. The current situation effectively encourages women to use law enforcement and social pressure as a weapon and allows them to actively attack men/people without legal/social consequence (e.g., hope solo). That needs to stop in my opinion.

 

[Fijimn]

If you read the report, Meggs' office dropped 70% of the cases against FSU athletes. However, 66 athletes had been arrested. I have a problem with the 66 being arrested. Do I believe it will ever be 0, no, but we are trending in the wrong direction. I would note that, so is UF, to a worse degree.

I don't have a problem with a justice system. I have an issue when the school and athletic department runs interference with police investigation. That happens. Of course, it happens every where.

 

[tommynole3476]

Here is a great line from that report:

By comparison, cases ended up without being prosecuted 50 percent of the time among a sample of crimes involving college-age males in Tallahassee.

So we're talking about a 20 point difference, which seems huge, and is; but that doesn't mean it's because FSU is running some kind of interference with police. What percentage of those college-age males have access to the lawyers that an FSU BB or FB player has?

Just because FSU educates their athletes on their rights when they're interacting with police doesn't mean they're running interference.

If anything ESPN's report just shows the value of knowing your rights and having competent representation.

 

[tommynole3476]

I also find the 50% number disturbing, but in a far different way than ESPN probably intended... but that's probably a different thread altogether.

 

[Fijimn]

I am not surprised with the 50% dismissal from Meggs office-- I suspect that it is a huge factor to that office's conviction rate and the ASA's promotions. My case was difficult because it was primarily based on eye witness identification of a cross-racial suspect. Our original ASA didn't want to try it and slow-played it. Finally got reassigned to real good attorney and we went to trial.

 

[tommynole3476]

I was thinking about it coming from the ones doing the arresting, rather than the prosecuting... but like I said, different topic, lol

 

[Fijimn]

That's possible. I never found TPD to be overly aggressive to college kids. Mostly just tell people to go home. I suspect if it is fights, assaults, etc., at parties or large gatherings, TPD just arrests everyone -- and when the prosecutor's office gets it, it's a huge mess without any good witnesses.

 

[koolguy]

"Ok, if she picks up a bottle and threatens him with it he can hit her."

That would provide more clarity to the situation. My only real issue with this is the underlying drive of treating women like they are not adults. They are. The current situation effectively encourages women to use law enforcement and social pressure as a weapon and allows them to actively attack men/people without legal/social consequence (e.g., hope solo). That needs to stop in my opinion.

Adults look at this situation and see a grown strong man, and a woman who is of no threat to him. PERIOD...

Anyone, everyone sees it. If she had a knife...ok...gun...definitely...broken bottle.

She might think she can handle herself but she cant. He has a punch, she doesn't.
and as for hitting him first, please.

Just stop with the equality thing....everyone knows it isn't the case here.

 

[Banditking]

It is the case. That mentality creates a legal situation that is not fair. Are fights between men always equal? Could there be situations when the physical disparity is effectively equivalent to dj versus this girl? Also, dj didn't beat her up. She punched him. He punched her harder. Didn't knock her out. Didn't continue to throttle a defenseless person. He threw a jab, one jab at an adult who hit him and he did mild damage. That jab completely stopped the altercation.

 

[Fijimn]

That's some world class spin, Bandit. You missed your calling.

 

[Banditking]

How do you know I missed it?

 

[Nole Lou]

The reason that he has to be kicked off is because violence against women has to be a one-strike and you're out, because you can't afford the second one.

If this is an isolated incident, not related to a personality deficiency of being an abuser, which I am perfectly willing to entertain, then he learns his lesson about what is acceptable in society, and moves on to continue his education and playing career somewhere else.

However, if he was to have any other incident of this nature, or domestic incident, it would be simply inexcusable to have that happen under the FSU banner. FSU owes it to Johnson to level consequences for this, and owes it to the FSU community to not enable a potential violent abuser. The punishment fits the crime here. It's not like FSU is the only place he can get an education, play football, or get drafted.

 

[FSUTribe76]

I agree Lou.

He should be booted from FSU but hopefully Jimbo is helping him secure a spot in a CC somewhere where his career isn't completely destroyed over a momentary split second decision and the aggressiveness of a dumb %*%* who was probably underage drinking as well.

And I'm not saying go to a CC and come back to FSU, he should be permanently gone from us. But heck, UF is desparate for QBs they might take him after a year repairing his image.

 

[SoundSlave]

Dude...get a grip.
there is no gender equity in a fist fight, DJ is a grown fit powerful man who is able to compete with the best in college football.
The woman is big boned yes, but not able to handle a man with type of power.
He should have known that, if not, then he is dangerous.
There are few women, if any, that could handle me and I am 46 and not a college football player, not a muscle head ect, but am much more powerful than say her.
btw...I doubt there are few in this forum that could handle a man of that age/strength....she had no chance

second point

How is it more important that you don't tell the coach the truth, then tell the authorities the truth, or hit a woman in a bar....
Coach Fisher is not any more important than anyone else. He is just a man, and he runs the football team.
He should have been kick off the team for the actions, lying is of course what people who hit women do.


third point....

all those who are working on this idea that he should be back on the team in a year....why would the team want him in the locker room...I would not want someone like that, you never know when he will explode...maybe really hurt someone when tempers really run hot.
Not a good scene at all...you have to trust the mentality of a teammate, and at practice people get mad

I respect your opinions and your points, but you completely missed my point.

 

[Spearchucker87]

BTW, I watched DA Willie Meggs on local Tallahassee TV last night recounting what he saw in the video, and it pretty much reflects the girls story: DJ wanted to push in front of her to get to the bar. She pushed back, DJ grabbed her and started pushing her over on top of the guy next to her (white tank top). She was telling him 'stop, I was here first'. Meggs didn't say it outright but you could tell he pretty much considers her actions as self defense. No way he, Yiannis, FSU or DJ will ask for charges to be brought against her.

 

[KitingHigh]

BTW, I watched DA Willie Meggs on local Tallahassee TV last night recounting what he saw in the video, and it pretty much reflects the girls story: DJ wanted to push in front of her to get to the bar. She pushed back, DJ grabbed her and started pushing her over on top of the guy next to her (white tank top). She was telling him 'stop, I was here first'. Meggs didn't say it outright but you could tell he pretty much considers her actions as self defense. No way he, Yiannis, FSU or DJ will ask for charges to be brought against her.

Anyone who watches the video and claims that is what happened is a bold face liar.

 

[vevois23]

I don't know about bold faced liar. Maybe more like half truth

 

[Spearchucker87]

BTW Vevois,

Dukefan posted the basketball schedule (w/o dates) and a little analysis of what we're up against. Also the updated rosters and bios have been posted. -- And I chimed in with my usual depth chart suggestions. We're doing very well as far as "offseason developments", just need one more piece of the puzzle to fall our way out of Jax.

 

[vevois23]

BTW Vevois,

Dukefan posted the basketball schedule (w/o dates) and a little analysis of what we're up against. Also the updated rosters and bios have been posted. -- And I chimed in with my usual depth chart suggestions. We're doing very well as far as "offseason developments", just need one more piece of the puzzle to fall our way out of Jax.

Saw that. Didn't want to reply b/c I knew I wouldn't stay within the rules re: recruiting

 

[Spearchucker87]

Saw that. Didn't want to reply b/c I knew I wouldn't stay within the rules re: recruiting

Yep, that is frustrating as hell. I posted pretty much the same thing a few months ago and the thread got deleted. But now they are on campus so I guess it's ok. It's also right there on FSU's athletic department website so Good Grief........are we in kindergarden here? I go elsewhere even though the posters aren't smart about hoops. At least you can talk like adults and get great info.