Florida State is 20 games into the 2024-25 season. We’ve covered the games, published news items, notebooks and run live game threads. We’ll continue to do all of those for the remainder of the season, but we want this thread to focus on the macro discussion: The big-picture questions surrounding Leonard Hamilton and the program.
Coming off a significant win over Pittsburgh at home on Jan. 15, one that elevated FSU’s resume, the Seminoles struggled and delivered two road duds on the West Coast. FSU’s inconsistencies have been evident in the growth of new players, which has impacted the team’s success.
Hamilton has pointed to the inconsistency frequently, and it’s also reflected in part with the last four results: a victory over KenPom’s No. 34 team, Pitt, a home win over No. 111 Georgia Tech but then the team’s first sub-100 loss at Cal (which is now 117) and No. 72 Stanford. The resume is shaping up to be one where the Seminoles will be out of the NCAA Tournament for a fourth straight year, although an NIT bid is in reach.
My intention is for this to not be a column, but to share some pressing questions, opinion and have it be conversational for us to address where FSU’s program is and where it can go in the future.
Hamilton’s age/contract: Let’s start with the elephant in the room. Hamilton, 76, is in the final year of his contract. It’s rare to find a coach in football or men’s basketball in this contract situation. Will he be extended? How much of the next 11 games will impact that decision?
Age, to me, is less of a factor than the current on-court product. In March 2021, at 72, he guided FSU to the Sweet 16. Hamilton wasn’t viewed as old then, not when FSU made the Sweet 16 in 2018, ’19 and ’21. And the pandemic-canceled NCAA Tournament in 2020 halted what could have been the Seminoles’ shot at a Final Four for the ACC regular-season champions.
Hamilton's graduation rate is legendary. Only a few of FSU's four-year players have not earned a degree in his 23 years on campus.
Success on the court, for various reasons, are among the storylines and burning questions.
FSU’s record since 2021-22: The Seminoles went 43-53 in the last three full seasons, none of which resulted in an NIT or NCAA Tournament berth. Add in the 13-7 mark going into Wednesday’s home game against Virginia Tech, and FSU is 56-60 since Nov. 2021.
Where the numbers mislead is FSU’s injury-depleted 9-23 season of 2022-23. Hamilton vowed to hit the portal as part of the rebuild. Still, the Seminoles went 17-16 in 2023-24 and didn’t look cohesive. There was a transfer exodus, and six former players are suing Hamilton for what they feel is NIL promises that weren’t fulfilled. (Hamilton has declined to comment on the court case.)
FSU has no realistic path to the NCAA Tournament in March 2025 without the automatic bid as ACC Tournament champion. The Seminoles theoretically could make a run and upset a combination of No. 1 Duke (road), No. 25 Louisville (road), No. 27 Clemson (home) and No. 38 UNC (home). But all of those games are projected by KenPom to be losses. KenPom projects FSU will finish 19-12.
Why is FSU’s struggling in 2024-25: The Seminoles have often been a fun team to watch at home. But they are 1-4 on the road in league play. The Seminoles had a chance to take care of business at Cal and Stanford, potentially picking up two wins. When asked about the long road trip before flying (commercial, not charter) to San Francisco last week, Hamilton said: “I could complain about a lot of stuff. But at the end of the day, we got to go play those games. And most importantly we have to win them. We want to go and come back with two victories.”
Losing both games is not just detrimental to the outlook of the current team. It speaks to the leadership and accountability of the players. FSU clearly missed junior guard Chandler Jackson, who is out due to a groin injury. Freshman AJ Swinton is also out with an injury. Would they have made a difference? Perhaps. But a team that wins with players 6 through 10 off the bench didn’t get a spark.
“The depth issue is probably challenging us a little bit more, because our depth is inexperienced,” Hamilton said on Monday. “Chandler and AJ are such high-energy guys that, to be very honest with you, I didn't realize that I would miss that energy and that aggressiveness that they bring to our team as much as we did on this trip.”
Don’t let the second part of that quote slip away. For a coach who embraces the team concept, one who once had a motto of “heart and hustle,” Hamilton offered up a jab at his players’ energy in losses to Cal and Stanford.
A more pressing question: How many ACC-caliber players does FSU have on this roster right now? Is this Hamilton’s fault? The assistant coaches’ fault? Is this FSU’s prestige in the viewpoint of high school recruits and transfers? Is this the NIL capabilities afforded to Hamilton? All are legitimate questions worth examining.
Jamir Watkins and Malique Ewin have been forced to shoulder the load and they have also been consistent scorers. It’s impressive that Hamilton and the staff were able to keep Watkins and help his development for pro basketball. And Ewin has shown to be one of FSU’s most versatile big men in recent years.
Point guard Daquan Davis has logged heavy minutes as a freshman. At times, he’s looked like one, but his upside is evident and he was elevated to the starting lineup in January. Sophomore Taylor Bol Bowen is energetic and a good shot blocker, but he has been inconsistent as a scorer. What Jackson lacks as a jump shooter he has made up for as a tough driver to the basket.
How many ACC-caliber players do you count? You might have stopped at two but did you get past five? Hamilton wins with players 6 through 10 off the bench. And this 6 through 10 can't be asked to deliver with any consistency.
FSU brought in well-traveled college transfers Justin Thomas and Bostyn Holt, who simply haven’t contributed nearly enough points, rebounds or assists. Thomas’ eight rebounds and five assists against Georgia Tech are notable, but he hasn’t had a 10-point game against ACC opponents. Holt started in November and December but has done little since coming off the bench in January.
Jerry Deng has been a good pickup, a 3-point shooter who has scored 11 points in losses to Clemson and Cal. But he too has been inconsistent in his second college season following a transfer from Hampton, although that’s to be expected considering the jump in competition.
The bottom line is the roster features so many new pieces, transfers and freshmen. That’s the nature of college basketball for not just FSU but every coach around the country. But for an FSU coaching staff that focuses on long-term development, the comings and goings with the portal haven’t lined up with how Hamilton traditionally runs the program.
What’s the overall investment in FSU hoops: This discussion requires context. It’s not as simple as saying Hamilton should retire. His $2.25 million salary is incentive-laden but also far below market when considering Auburn’s Bruce Pearl ($5.7 million) and Tennessee’s Rick Barnes ($5.7 million) make more than double his salary, according to USA Today's database.
Even in his final season at Virginia, Tony Bennett earned $4 million. A large number of ACC schools are private and don’t have to report salaries via open-records requests. It’s tough to pinpoint how many ACC coaches make more than Hamilton. But it’s easy to state that FSU’s next head coach would demand a higher salary.
But it takes more than just a head coach’s salary. It’s assistant coaches and support staff. When Charlton Young was hired away from FSU by Missouri a few years ago, he more than doubled his salary. Young’s recruiting connections, day-to-day coaching and player development were valuable to those Sweet 16 teams.
Hamilton has long called FSU a hoops “new blood” as the program tries to compete with blue bloods like Duke and North Carolina. And, again, he often did just that with deep rosters that resulted in Sweet 16 teams as recently as 2021.
But the portal and NIL have dramatically altered the landscape. While there’s no database or transparency in NIL budgets and contracts, FSU clearly had enough money to retain Watkins and attract Ewin — but not enough to build a deep roster in the current climate that can reach the NCAA Tournament.
The discussion will likely change with revenue sharing, where schools will split $20.5 million among their athletes (if settlements are approved in April). FSU is expected to distribute 75 percent to football athletes, with the other sports left to divide the rest. Schools can divide how they wish, and it goes without saying that some basketball-centric schools will allocate a higher percentage to assure on-court success.
This would require an NIL collective, The Battle’s End, to put together marketing contracts with local, regional and national advertisers to supplement revenue sharing dollars earmarked toward basketball players. Schools that have a basketball-centric alumni base of businessmen and women will likely find firm footing in this new era.
Does the FSU community — from school administrators to businesspeople to casual fans — want basketball to compete with the big boys? It will take an overall investment that far surpasses the current budgets, one that is also stretched with two major football projects. It will take more fans in the stands, bringing in needed revenue through season ticket sales and booster contributions and have the desire to fund the program’s growth.
Is FSU attractive to a coach? Hamilton has turned around basketball programs at Oklahoma State, Miami and FSU. Nobody has taken on three rebuilds at three football schools and achieved his level of success.
In some regards, Hamilton’s turnaround of FSU basketball has started this conversation — FSU can’t go four years without a postseason bid because Hamilton has elevated the program. We’re at the point where competing for the NCAA Tournament is an expectation for FSU hoops.
If Hamilton is not renewed, someone in the coaching community will want this job. It remains to be seen if that’s a mid-major coach, power conference assistant or a person from the FSU family (Luke Loucks, for example, is currently an assistant with the NBA’s Sacramento Kings).
But the coach will need a higher salary, higher assistant coaching pool and must engage the fan base to help in the rebuild. It won’t be cheap.
And one more wrinkle: The transfer portal opens in mid-March.
What do you think? Let’s start the conversation below.
Coming off a significant win over Pittsburgh at home on Jan. 15, one that elevated FSU’s resume, the Seminoles struggled and delivered two road duds on the West Coast. FSU’s inconsistencies have been evident in the growth of new players, which has impacted the team’s success.
Hamilton has pointed to the inconsistency frequently, and it’s also reflected in part with the last four results: a victory over KenPom’s No. 34 team, Pitt, a home win over No. 111 Georgia Tech but then the team’s first sub-100 loss at Cal (which is now 117) and No. 72 Stanford. The resume is shaping up to be one where the Seminoles will be out of the NCAA Tournament for a fourth straight year, although an NIT bid is in reach.
My intention is for this to not be a column, but to share some pressing questions, opinion and have it be conversational for us to address where FSU’s program is and where it can go in the future.
Hamilton’s age/contract: Let’s start with the elephant in the room. Hamilton, 76, is in the final year of his contract. It’s rare to find a coach in football or men’s basketball in this contract situation. Will he be extended? How much of the next 11 games will impact that decision?
Age, to me, is less of a factor than the current on-court product. In March 2021, at 72, he guided FSU to the Sweet 16. Hamilton wasn’t viewed as old then, not when FSU made the Sweet 16 in 2018, ’19 and ’21. And the pandemic-canceled NCAA Tournament in 2020 halted what could have been the Seminoles’ shot at a Final Four for the ACC regular-season champions.
Hamilton's graduation rate is legendary. Only a few of FSU's four-year players have not earned a degree in his 23 years on campus.
Success on the court, for various reasons, are among the storylines and burning questions.
FSU’s record since 2021-22: The Seminoles went 43-53 in the last three full seasons, none of which resulted in an NIT or NCAA Tournament berth. Add in the 13-7 mark going into Wednesday’s home game against Virginia Tech, and FSU is 56-60 since Nov. 2021.
Where the numbers mislead is FSU’s injury-depleted 9-23 season of 2022-23. Hamilton vowed to hit the portal as part of the rebuild. Still, the Seminoles went 17-16 in 2023-24 and didn’t look cohesive. There was a transfer exodus, and six former players are suing Hamilton for what they feel is NIL promises that weren’t fulfilled. (Hamilton has declined to comment on the court case.)
FSU has no realistic path to the NCAA Tournament in March 2025 without the automatic bid as ACC Tournament champion. The Seminoles theoretically could make a run and upset a combination of No. 1 Duke (road), No. 25 Louisville (road), No. 27 Clemson (home) and No. 38 UNC (home). But all of those games are projected by KenPom to be losses. KenPom projects FSU will finish 19-12.
Why is FSU’s struggling in 2024-25: The Seminoles have often been a fun team to watch at home. But they are 1-4 on the road in league play. The Seminoles had a chance to take care of business at Cal and Stanford, potentially picking up two wins. When asked about the long road trip before flying (commercial, not charter) to San Francisco last week, Hamilton said: “I could complain about a lot of stuff. But at the end of the day, we got to go play those games. And most importantly we have to win them. We want to go and come back with two victories.”
Losing both games is not just detrimental to the outlook of the current team. It speaks to the leadership and accountability of the players. FSU clearly missed junior guard Chandler Jackson, who is out due to a groin injury. Freshman AJ Swinton is also out with an injury. Would they have made a difference? Perhaps. But a team that wins with players 6 through 10 off the bench didn’t get a spark.
“The depth issue is probably challenging us a little bit more, because our depth is inexperienced,” Hamilton said on Monday. “Chandler and AJ are such high-energy guys that, to be very honest with you, I didn't realize that I would miss that energy and that aggressiveness that they bring to our team as much as we did on this trip.”
Don’t let the second part of that quote slip away. For a coach who embraces the team concept, one who once had a motto of “heart and hustle,” Hamilton offered up a jab at his players’ energy in losses to Cal and Stanford.
A more pressing question: How many ACC-caliber players does FSU have on this roster right now? Is this Hamilton’s fault? The assistant coaches’ fault? Is this FSU’s prestige in the viewpoint of high school recruits and transfers? Is this the NIL capabilities afforded to Hamilton? All are legitimate questions worth examining.
Jamir Watkins and Malique Ewin have been forced to shoulder the load and they have also been consistent scorers. It’s impressive that Hamilton and the staff were able to keep Watkins and help his development for pro basketball. And Ewin has shown to be one of FSU’s most versatile big men in recent years.
Point guard Daquan Davis has logged heavy minutes as a freshman. At times, he’s looked like one, but his upside is evident and he was elevated to the starting lineup in January. Sophomore Taylor Bol Bowen is energetic and a good shot blocker, but he has been inconsistent as a scorer. What Jackson lacks as a jump shooter he has made up for as a tough driver to the basket.
How many ACC-caliber players do you count? You might have stopped at two but did you get past five? Hamilton wins with players 6 through 10 off the bench. And this 6 through 10 can't be asked to deliver with any consistency.
FSU brought in well-traveled college transfers Justin Thomas and Bostyn Holt, who simply haven’t contributed nearly enough points, rebounds or assists. Thomas’ eight rebounds and five assists against Georgia Tech are notable, but he hasn’t had a 10-point game against ACC opponents. Holt started in November and December but has done little since coming off the bench in January.
Jerry Deng has been a good pickup, a 3-point shooter who has scored 11 points in losses to Clemson and Cal. But he too has been inconsistent in his second college season following a transfer from Hampton, although that’s to be expected considering the jump in competition.
The bottom line is the roster features so many new pieces, transfers and freshmen. That’s the nature of college basketball for not just FSU but every coach around the country. But for an FSU coaching staff that focuses on long-term development, the comings and goings with the portal haven’t lined up with how Hamilton traditionally runs the program.
What’s the overall investment in FSU hoops: This discussion requires context. It’s not as simple as saying Hamilton should retire. His $2.25 million salary is incentive-laden but also far below market when considering Auburn’s Bruce Pearl ($5.7 million) and Tennessee’s Rick Barnes ($5.7 million) make more than double his salary, according to USA Today's database.
Even in his final season at Virginia, Tony Bennett earned $4 million. A large number of ACC schools are private and don’t have to report salaries via open-records requests. It’s tough to pinpoint how many ACC coaches make more than Hamilton. But it’s easy to state that FSU’s next head coach would demand a higher salary.
But it takes more than just a head coach’s salary. It’s assistant coaches and support staff. When Charlton Young was hired away from FSU by Missouri a few years ago, he more than doubled his salary. Young’s recruiting connections, day-to-day coaching and player development were valuable to those Sweet 16 teams.
Hamilton has long called FSU a hoops “new blood” as the program tries to compete with blue bloods like Duke and North Carolina. And, again, he often did just that with deep rosters that resulted in Sweet 16 teams as recently as 2021.
But the portal and NIL have dramatically altered the landscape. While there’s no database or transparency in NIL budgets and contracts, FSU clearly had enough money to retain Watkins and attract Ewin — but not enough to build a deep roster in the current climate that can reach the NCAA Tournament.
The discussion will likely change with revenue sharing, where schools will split $20.5 million among their athletes (if settlements are approved in April). FSU is expected to distribute 75 percent to football athletes, with the other sports left to divide the rest. Schools can divide how they wish, and it goes without saying that some basketball-centric schools will allocate a higher percentage to assure on-court success.
This would require an NIL collective, The Battle’s End, to put together marketing contracts with local, regional and national advertisers to supplement revenue sharing dollars earmarked toward basketball players. Schools that have a basketball-centric alumni base of businessmen and women will likely find firm footing in this new era.
Does the FSU community — from school administrators to businesspeople to casual fans — want basketball to compete with the big boys? It will take an overall investment that far surpasses the current budgets, one that is also stretched with two major football projects. It will take more fans in the stands, bringing in needed revenue through season ticket sales and booster contributions and have the desire to fund the program’s growth.
Is FSU attractive to a coach? Hamilton has turned around basketball programs at Oklahoma State, Miami and FSU. Nobody has taken on three rebuilds at three football schools and achieved his level of success.
In some regards, Hamilton’s turnaround of FSU basketball has started this conversation — FSU can’t go four years without a postseason bid because Hamilton has elevated the program. We’re at the point where competing for the NCAA Tournament is an expectation for FSU hoops.
If Hamilton is not renewed, someone in the coaching community will want this job. It remains to be seen if that’s a mid-major coach, power conference assistant or a person from the FSU family (Luke Loucks, for example, is currently an assistant with the NBA’s Sacramento Kings).
But the coach will need a higher salary, higher assistant coaching pool and must engage the fan base to help in the rebuild. It won’t be cheap.
And one more wrinkle: The transfer portal opens in mid-March.
What do you think? Let’s start the conversation below.
