Georgia high school football player dies after being hit during game

[SeaPA]

repeated heading is absolutely going to cause CTE, I don't care how you do it, glancing a hard ball coming at speed off of your head repeatedly is going to cause some trauma. Granted, proper heading can help as deflecting a ball off your head isn't as bad as having it go head on at full speed, but it still will.

I don't know that you can remove heading from the game without fundamentally changing the game. To do so would essentially remove any aerial attacks from the game. It could be done, but it would make scoring far more difficult than it already is, remove corner kicks from being any type of real threat, etc... If scoring was not so difficult already in soccer I'd be ok with it, but what are your options? I do agree that it probably should not be allowed in youth soccer, and maybe you start there and eventually pro leagues adapt?

However, expecting FIFA to care about anything more than money is hilarious. And most countries simply aren't going to care at all either as football is there only path to international glory and money in some cases and they're far more willing to take those risks as a result. In the US, we have so many other paths that we're open to these conversations, but on a global level, getting every country in the world to agree that headers are bad??? That's never going to happen.

Is there anything that studies the potential damage on heading corners vs punts/goal kicks? Logically, it seems like there would be significantly less problem since it is more of a glancing than a direct blow.

Heading the long punts simply has to do some damage, I cannot be convinced otherwise. Guys at a high level punt hit long, towering kicks that are travelling at a high rate of speed, with the players fighting each other to win the ball in the air - so the frequently take it on the top of the head instead of the forehead.

 

[QuaZ2002]

We've talked about this before and I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on today's headers not causing brain trauma and see where the science leads us. Heading the ball properly is eerily similar to the football apologists that say tackling properly doesn't cause head injuries. I was hoping for FIFA and fans to be more open minded to the science but it doesn't look like that is happening. The research continues but here is a short video depicting what is being found. It seems basic and is not going to go away: the more you head the ball the more likely you will have traumatic brain injury. To be a top notch player you have to practice heading. Not a good combo.

View embedded media

There are multiple studies occurring right now at universities and hospitals in England. This isn't going to be going away.

Are there waves of former soccer players with early onset dementia or other significant brain issues? I have no idea. But if not, then who really cares? I don’t understand the uproar that everything has to be perfectly safe in the world.

 

[NoleLizards]

Are there waves of former soccer players with early onset dementia or other significant brain issues? I have no idea. But if not, then who really cares? I don’t understand the uproar that everything has to be perfectly safe in the world.

Would helmets in school-level soccer be considered an unacceptable remedy? If use of the head is removed, IMO it's no longer the same sport.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Are there waves of former soccer players with early onset dementia or other significant brain issues? I have no idea. But if not, then who really cares? I don’t understand the uproar that everything has to be perfectly safe in the world.

Yes, there are some:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/health/brain-damage-dementia-cte-soccer-football-study/index.html

 

[FSUdawg]

Are there waves of former soccer players with early onset dementia or other significant brain issues? I have no idea. But if not, then who really cares? I don’t understand the uproar that everything has to be perfectly safe in the world.

There are definitely players in Europe who have dementia and it can be linked back to playing soccer for years. Heading the ball is suspected to be a factor, but these guys also get hit in the head during the run of play a lot, so it isn't solely on heading.

As mentioned already in this thread, eliminating heading from soccer is not going to happen entirely. it is too big a part of the game and will drastically change the game as we know it (then again Americans already want to change it to better suit them). Instead I say if you don't want your kids (or yourself) to run the risk, then pick a different sport.

No matter what you are never going to make a sport 100% safe unless you stop playing it.

 

[GwinnettNole]

repeated heading is absolutely going to cause CTE, I don't care how you do it, glancing a hard ball coming at speed off of your head repeatedly is going to cause some trauma. Granted, proper heading can help as deflecting a ball off your head isn't as bad as having it go head on at full speed, but it still will.

I don't know that you can remove heading from the game without fundamentally changing the game. To do so would essentially remove any aerial attacks from the game. It could be done, but it would make scoring far more difficult than it already is, remove corner kicks from being any type of real threat, etc... If scoring was not so difficult already in soccer I'd be ok with it, but what are your options? I do agree that it probably should not be allowed in youth soccer, and maybe you start there and eventually pro leagues adapt?

However, expecting FIFA to care about anything more than money is hilarious. And most countries simply aren't going to care at all either as football is there only path to international glory and money in some cases and they're far more willing to take those risks as a result. In the US, we have so many other paths that we're open to these conversations, but on a global level, getting every country in the world to agree that headers are bad??? That's never going to happen.

The reason why I was hoping is that FIFA and soccer fans could have learned from the embarrassment that the NFL has gone through-- especially when the NFL denied the sport causes CTE. Basically the NFL dug in its heels, denied it and were made to look more illogical as every scientific study came out.

What I know is the soccer community in America is more progressive than the general NFL fan, and would be more open to scientific research. Unfortunately, FIFA looks to be ignoring but the research in soccer is relatively new. As I've said England is in the midst of studies right now. Lets see if there is any impact.

Now to changing the game: I agree that it would be a good sized change to not be able to use your head. But what you could see more of is bicycle kicks or sideways jumps that could level the ball in. I don't know. What about those soft helmets that the GK from the Premier team was using. Is there any help to that?

I guess I've always looked at it differently. An athlete can mess up his legs, back for life after playing and it would be ok (painful but he would still have his marbles). Once you starting messing with the brain its a game changer, at least in my view.

 

[kc78]

The reason why I was hoping is that FIFA and soccer fans could have learned from the embarrassment that the NFL has gone through-- especially when the NFL denied the sport causes CTE. Basically the NFL dug in its heels, denied it and were made to look more illogical as every scientific study came out.

What I know is the soccer community in America is more progressive than the general NFL fan, and would be more open to scientific research. Unfortunately, FIFA looks to be ignoring but the research in soccer is relatively new. As I've said England is in the midst of studies right now. Lets see if there is any impact.

Now to changing the game: I agree that it would be a good sized change to not be able to use your head. But what you could see more of is bicycle kicks or sideways jumps that could level the ball in. I don't know. What about those soft helmets that the GK from the Premier team was using. Is there any help to that?

I guess I've always looked at it differently. An athlete can mess up his legs, back for life after playing and it would be ok (painful but he would still have his marbles). Once you starting messing with the brain its a game changer, at least in my view.

Yes, I think MLS and US Soccer would be willing to consider changing play, however unless FIFA is also doing it it won't happen because of the disadvantage it would put the US at in international competition as you'd still have to have headers there. FIFA's control over all levels of soccer simply stops it from happening, at least from a play perspective, anywhere. You have to get their approval to make changes like that to the sport, and they're simply not going to recognize it.

As for helmets, I don't know how much they'd help CTE. NFL players already wear well protected helmets and still suffer from it as the brain still bounces around in the skull and there's no way to stop that.

As for bicycle kicks, those still have you landing on your head or back doing a lot of damage there. I don't see bicycle kicks as any safer than headers. And the helmets I think were fine for Petr Cech, but that was to protect him from taking a foot or a elbow to the head as he dove to grab balls more than from heading since he doesn't do that as a goalie. If it could protect the brain better I'd be interested in researching it and maybe requiring kids to wear the helmets if they're going to do headers...

Speaking of Cech, it's funny that we talk about that and his helmet the day after this went viral.

http://www.sportbible.com/football/...ead-of-helmet-on-fifa-19-career-mode-20181003

 

[FSUdawg]

The reason why I was hoping is that FIFA and soccer fans could have learned from the embarrassment that the NFL has gone through-- especially when the NFL denied the sport causes CTE. Basically the NFL dug in its heels, denied it and were made to look more illogical as every scientific study came out.

What I know is the soccer community in America is more progressive than the general NFL fan, and would be more open to scientific research. Unfortunately, FIFA looks to be ignoring but the research in soccer is relatively new. As I've said England is in the midst of studies right now. Lets see if there is any impact.

Now to changing the game: I agree that it would be a good sized change to not be able to use your head. But what you could see more of is bicycle kicks or sideways jumps that could level the ball in. I don't know. What about those soft helmets that the GK from the Premier team was using. Is there any help to that?

I guess I've always looked at it differently. An athlete can mess up his legs, back for life after playing and it would be ok (painful but he would still have his marbles). Once you starting messing with the brain its a game changer, at least in my view.

More bicycle kicks and "sideways jumps" (as you call them) would introduce another danger to the sport. Yes, bicycle kicks happen now but they are not very frequent. Increase them and you will also increase injuries from people getting kicked in the head.

The helmet you are referring to is because Petr Cech had his skull crushed. That is to protect him in case anyone runs into him or he hits the goal post. Would something like that help protect against head injuries from heading, maybe but nobody knows for sure.

The bigger question here is why do you feel FIFA needs to step in and change the game, or someone in authority needs to step in and change things? Do you think the players, coaches and families that are part of the sport are too stupid to make the decision to take the risk for themselves? Why can't the governing body educate the general public of the risks, introduce certain safety measures (safer balls, age restrictions, etc.), and allow people to make the decision themselves? If you don't want to play, or have your kids play, then choose to participate in something else.

 

[kc78]

More bicycle kicks and "sideways jumps" (as you call them) would introduce another danger to the sport. Yes, bicycle kicks happen now but they are not very frequent. Increase them and you will also increase injuries from people getting kicked in the head.

The helmet you are referring to is because Petr Cech had his skull crushed. That is to protect him in case anyone runs into him or he hits the goal post. Would something like that help protect against head injuries from heading, maybe but nobody knows for sure.

The bigger question here is why do you feel FIFA needs to step in and change the game, or someone in authority needs to step in and change things? Do you think the players, coaches and families that are part of the sport are too stupid to make the decision to take the risk for themselves? Why can't the governing body educate the general public of the risks, introduce certain safety measures (safer balls, age restrictions, etc.), and allow people to make the decision themselves? If you don't want to play, or have your kids play, then choose to participate in something else.

If a league knows that a specific part of their game is likely to cause brain damage from simply playing the game properly, then I think it's upon them to try to find ways to make it less likely. Sure, injuries will always occur in athletics as they are strenuous games. But there is a difference in either a muscle simply being overworn and tearing, or taking a poor tackle and being injured, than simply playing the game properly, as it is designed to be played and then having a brain injury as a result.

Sure, I guess we could just let people know, but to so many players, especially in smaller, poor countries, soccer/football is their only chance and so there is no risk too high. So in that case, I think it's imperative for the governing body to try to find ways to make it safer.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Heading the long punts simply has to do some damage, I cannot be convinced otherwise. Guys at a high level punt hit long, towering kicks that are travelling at a high rate of speed...

Agreed.
We’ve told our son not to head those balls. I think most parents have done so as well because for a very competitive travel team it’s just not that big of an issue. They’re actually pretty good at bringing the ball down in other ways. The coaches just don’t get worked up about it anymore.

But a couple times a game a kid heads a 50 yard punt from the keeper and I swear it looks like they are dazed for a couple seconds. That absolutely has to be damaging.

 

[FSUdawg]

Agreed.
We’ve told our son not to head those balls. I think most parents have done so as well because for a very competitive travel team it’s just not that big of an issue. They’re actually pretty good at bringing the ball down in other ways. The coaches just don’t get worked up about it anymore.

But a couple times a game a kid heads a 50 yard punt from the keeper and I swear it looks like they are dazed for a couple seconds. That absolutely has to be damaging.

That comes down to good coaching vs. poor coaching. At our club all the kids are instructed to use their chest to try and control the ball, or get in a position to trap the ball with their feet. It is strongly discouraged to use their head on punts & goal kicks. However, as you pointed out, there are a couple times a game someone decides to use their head. Personally I don't agree with it, but then again I don't agree with banning using your head at all.

Teach kids properly at a young age and they will not use their head very often, and it will cut down on potential head injuries.

 

[funksouljon]

Give em all helmets like Don Beebe wore. Or Welker helmet.

 

[GwinnettNole]

More bicycle kicks and "sideways jumps" (as you call them) would introduce another danger to the sport. Yes, bicycle kicks happen now but they are not very frequent. Increase them and you will also increase injuries from people getting kicked in the head.

The helmet you are referring to is because Petr Cech had his skull crushed. That is to protect him in case anyone runs into him or he hits the goal post. Would something like that help protect against head injuries from heading, maybe but nobody knows for sure.

The bigger question here is why do you feel FIFA needs to step in and change the game, or someone in authority needs to step in and change things? Do you think the players, coaches and families that are part of the sport are too stupid to make the decision to take the risk for themselves? Why can't the governing body educate the general public of the risks, introduce certain safety measures (safer balls, age restrictions, etc.), and allow people to make the decision themselves? If you don't want to play, or have your kids play, then choose to participate in something else.

You don't know that people would get kicked in the head on bicycle kicks. Likewise, its not something that you would practice (getting kicked in the head) so its already safer than heading the ball 6,000 times a year which we know causes issues because of the constant repetitive hits (especially in practice).

If heading was banned players would find other ways to get the ball in the goal then using their head. Maybe it bounces off their chest and they control it from there. Maybe they trap it some other way... it would require players to get more creative. The timing and skill required of kicking the ball off of the corners were remarkable in the WC this year. Its a skill that did not require heading, bicycle kicks, etc.

The science has pointed to us that there is a problem with heading. I've seen players head the ball in the PL at midfield off a long goal kick that serves no purpose. In fact, it would be better for their team if they trap the ball with their chest and play it from there.

I want people in soccer to be smart, not like the neanderthals of football that denied CTE is caused by elements of the sport. They need to come out and say heading the ball can cause head trauma. You can choose or not choose to play. I guarantee you if FIFA came out with the known science that headers are causing trauma issues then kids would find a safer sport to play. Its the 21st century. Lets use the technology we have to allow people to make more informed decisions. That's what I want from FIFA (since they would not ban the header as you say). But denying the science, makes one look as illogical as the NFL with tackling.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Yep, they control the ball in just the manner you mentioned above.

 

[kc78]

You don't know that people would get kicked in the head on bicycle kicks. Likewise, its not something that you would practice (getting kicked in the head) so its already safer than heading the ball 6,000 times a year which we know causes issues because of the constant repetitive hits (especially in practice).

If heading was banned players would find other ways to get the ball in the goal then using their head. Maybe it bounces off their chest and they control it from there. Maybe they trap it some other way... it would require players to get more creative. The timing and skill required of kicking the ball off of the corners were remarkable in the WC this year. Its a skill that did not require heading, bicycle kicks, etc.

The science has pointed to us that there is a problem with heading. I've seen players head the ball in the PL at midfield off a long goal kick that serves no purpose. In fact, it would be better for their team if they trap the ball with their chest and play it from there.

I want people in soccer to be smart, not like the neanderthals of football that denied CTE is caused by elements of the sport. They need to come out and say heading the ball can cause head trauma. You can choose or not choose to play. I guarantee you if FIFA came out with the known science that headers are causing trauma issues then kids would find a safer sport to play. Its the 21st century. Lets use the technology we have to allow people to make more informed decisions. That's what I want from FIFA (since they would not ban the header as you say). But denying the science, makes one look as illogical as the NFL with tackling.

I'm fine with banning it completely in all plays except for crosses on goal. I try to be pretty progressive, I just don't see how you keep something like corner kicks and scoring up when a large percentage of goals come off of headers on crosses.

But I'm with you. I took one square off the head at my son's practice monday night, and I swear I had concussive symptoms for the rest of the night.

 

[divinnole]

I grew up playing the 3 major sports and had chances for college in all 3. My son played FB and is now 30, he also had college offers. Every time I see him wince when he bends his knees picking up his 6mos old son I regret letting him play. He has been told he will have to have both knees replaced by time he is 40. His best friend was a smaller guy who packed a helluva wallop when he hit you, now he suffers from chronic headaches caused my concussions when he played,. Talk about views changing, mine have!! If they would just anoint me over the PE part of our education system I would ban FB in a hurry. Every kid would be taught the games of tennis and golf while in school. 2 sports they can compete at all of their with others of their skill level.

 

[GwinnettNole]

I'm fine with banning it completely in all plays except for crosses on goal. I try to be pretty progressive, I just don't see how you keep something like corner kicks and scoring up when a large percentage of goals come off of headers on crosses.

But I'm with you. I took one square off the head at my son's practice monday night, and I swear I had concussive symptoms for the rest of the night.

Banning it outside the 18 is a step in the right direction.

I headed a ball last spring and I swear I was dizzy for a day after it. I don’t know how they do it...

 

[GwinnettNole]

I grew up playing the 3 major sports and had chances for college in all 3. My son played FB and is now 30, he also had college offers. Every time I see him wince when he bends his knees picking up his 6mos old son I regret letting him play. He has been told he will have to have both knees replaced by time he is 40. His best friend was a smaller guy who packed a helluva wallop when he hit you, now he suffers from chronic headaches caused my concussions when he played,. Talk about views changing, mine have!! If they would just anoint me over the PE part of our education system I would ban FB in a hurry. Every kid would be taught the games of tennis and golf while in school. 2 sports they can compete at all of their with others of their skill level.

Baseball and basketball are also relatively safe (in terms of head injuries). I know concussions are going to occur but if a normal part of the game cause TBI then that is where I draw the line.

 

[seminole97]

Give em all helmets like Don Beebe wore. Or Welker helmet.

At the end of the day the problem is we’re not woodpeckers and nature didn’t design us to get our brains shook in our skulls over and over and over.
I figure my kids got a good shot at dementia without trying for it.

 

[mcgrawfsu]

Baseball and basketball are also relatively safe (in terms of head injuries). I know concussions are going to occur but if a normal part of the game cause TBI then that is where I draw the line.

A lot of baseball concussions come from foul tips hitting catchers. All-Star is ahead of everyone else with developing better catcher helmets. It amazes me how poorly made some of the other brands are.

 

[funksouljon]

At the end of the day the problem is we’re not woodpeckers and nature didn’t design us to get our brains shook in our skulls over and over and over.
I figure my kids got a good shot at dementia without trying for it.

Pretty wild their tongue wraps around their brain to act as a cushion huh? What a bizarre adaptation.

I agree on dementia. Apparently dementia/Alzheimers runs in my family on my father's side at least. Agree on not trying to add to the probability. If I had boys, with what we now know, I would not support them playing football. I likely will NOT be in favor of cheerleading (besides, they will end up too tall).