GoT: s5-e5. Kill the Boy

[nolelan]

I thought it was a good episode. I am glad they worked in the attack from the "stone men" although it is a very different situation than the books.
I love how they designed old Valyria. It looked great. I would have messed my pants if a dragon flew over me like that, especially in those old creepy ruins.
I really like how they are playing out the Sansa/Bolton story line. I am not sure who is worse, Roose or Ramsey.
I can't help but think Princess Shireen is not coming out of the campaign south alive. It feels like they are setting up a tragedy there.
I can't wait to see how they do Jon's trip to HardHome. That should be fun.

The only negatives for me were no sand snakes after giving us a little taste last week and no Arya.

 

[DanC78]

The season is finally starting to come around. It's taking some getting used too with so many of the best characters now gone. I used to hate watching Jon Snow scenes, now I'm liking. Caleasey (Sp) is FINALLY using the dragons...I mean damn, that took long enough. Wish she would get naked again, don't think thats going to happen though

The Sansa, Reek, Brienne (big blond protector), and the other crazy guy who made Reek story line is getting good as well.

 

[kc78]

For the first time I'm at a point where I really don't know what is going to happen now. I haven't decided if I like that yet or not. As long as they don't destroy the great stories and characters I think I can be quite ok with this being a "different" story from Martin's. There are a few storylines I'm growing tired of and ready for them to finish though like the Bolton storyline for example.

 

[nolelan]

The season is finally starting to come around. It's taking some getting used too with so many of the best characters now gone. I used to hate watching Jon Snow scenes, now I'm liking. Caleasey (Sp) is FINALLY using the dragons...I mean damn, that took long enough. Wish she would get naked again, don't think thats going to happen though

The Sansa, Reek, Brienne (big blond protector), and the other crazy guy who made Reek story line is getting good as well.

I think I remember seeing after season 1 the actress said she refused to do anymore nude scenes.

 

[FSUTribe76]

I'm already not liking the changes from the books. Killing Mance Rayder one of the best characters (and actors on the show) to replace him with...I guess Tormond? Killing Selmy Barristan who is one of the bad%*%es of the book and whom the show spent seasons setting up with quotes from other bad%*%es like Jaime Lannister who was probably the second best saying "Barristan Selmy...He was a painter. A painter who used only red. I couldn't imagine being able to ever fight like that." And Ned saying to Selmy "I've glad I never met you on the battlefield. And so is my wife. A widow's life wouldn't suit her." Only to see the writers of the tv show when given a chance have Selmy get killed by a couple of random unnamed slavers. There's a great meme about it but I can't post it due to the sites iPhone programming.

Then changing up Ser Jorah Mormont to have Dragonscale?

Yeah I'm not liking the changes. The only change I've liked is skipping the whole Tyrion and dwarf girlfriend being put into the circus aspect and just advancing it so he ends up with Dany sooner.

 

[FSUTribe76]

I think I remember seeing after season 1 the actress said she refused to do anymore nude scenes.

You are correct. She also robbed us of the one boobed dresses and the great Irri and Dany lesbo scenes.

 

[nolelan]

I'm already not liking the changes from the books. Killing Mance Rayder one of the best characters (and actors on the show) to replace him with...I guess Tormond? Killing Selmy Barristan who is one of the bad%*%es of the book and whom the show spent seasons setting up with quotes from other bad%*%es like Jaime Lannister who was probably the second best saying "Barristan Selmy...He was a painter. A painter who used only red. I couldn't imagine being able to ever fight like that." And Ned saying to Selmy "I've glad I never met you on the battlefield. And so is my wife. A widow's life wouldn't suit her." Only to see the writers of the tv show when given a chance have Selmy get killed by a couple of random unnamed slavers. There's a great meme about it but I can't post it due to the sites iPhone programming.

Then changing up Ser Jorah Mormont to have Dragonscale?

Yeah I'm not liking the changes. The only change I've liked is skipping the whole Tyrion and dwarf girlfriend being put into the circus aspect and just advancing it so he ends up with Dany sooner.

While not giving any spoilers, I am pretty sure the same thing happened to "Mance" in the book. I will have to go back and relook but I think I am right.

 

[FSUTribe76]

While not giving any spoilers, I am pretty sure the same thing happened to "Mance" in the book. I will have to go back and relook but I think I am right.

In the book his death was a fake by Melisandrei so you must be forgetting the twist. As the books end he's waiting in Winterfell to be there to rescue who Jon thinks is Sansa (another big book difference, here Boltons not married to a fake Sansa but apparently will be to the real deal). Here it was entirely real (the actors already spoken on the matter saying nope he really is dead).

 

[nolelan]

In the book his death was a fake by Melisandrei so you must be forgetting the twist. As the books end he's waiting in Winterfell to be there to rescue who Jon thinks is Sansa (another big book difference, here Boltons not married to a fake Sansa but apparently will be to the real deal). Here it was entirely real (the actors already spoken on the matter saying nope he really is dead).

You should use the spoiler thing for that.

 

[nolelan]

You should use the spoiler thing for that.

Spoiler

i remember what happens in the book but for a while you think he is dead [\spoiler]

 

[FSUTribe76]

You should use the spoiler thing for that.

It's not a spoiler except for the books as it did not happen in the series and 99% of people are in one of two camps: 1) Someone who reads them as soon as he bothers to release them or 2) a bibliophile who refuse to read them.

At this point the book came out four years ago. Do I have to say spoilers before I talk about anything else four years old? Spoiler alert, Auburn beat the Ducks for the 2011 national title in football. Lol.

I'm all for spoilers when it's a new movie that came out last week (or even six months ago) and I can understand the don't spoil the series from the book thing that's at play in GOT the tv series. But here we're not talking spoilers, we're talking about differences that have already occurred.

 

[NDallasRuss]

You should use the spoiler thing for that.

In case I decide to go back and read a book that was published 10 years ago? Isn't that like telling everyone not to spoil the winner of the 2005 Super Bowl, or not to tell us what happens in Sixth Sense?

Spoiler: Spoiler

The kid's dead

 

[nolelan]

It's not a spoiler except for the books as it did not happen in the series and 99% of people are in one of two camps: 1) Someone who reads them as soon as he bothers to release them or 2) a bibliophile who refuse to read them.

At this point the book came out four years ago. Do I have to say spoilers before I talk about anything else four years old? Spoiler alert, Auburn beat the Ducks for the 2011 national title in football. Lol.

I'm all for spoilers when it's a new movie that came out last week (or even six months ago) and I can understand the don't spoil the series from the book thing that's at play in GOT the tv series. But here we're not talking spoilers, we're talking about differences that have already occurred.

I hear you but I think at least a good portion of the people who read these and contribute are only show watchers and it is not my intention to ruin the surprises.

 

[FSUSarah]

The Valyaria/Stone Men scene was fantastic.

Now that Jon Snow is Lord Commander, why doesn't he have Ghost at his side. I miss that direwolf.

Unleash the damn dragons!

I really hope Sansa finds the balls to take care of the Boltons. I'm really looking forward to their demise.

 

[DanC78]

The Valyaria/Stone Men scene was fantastic.

How the hell did little man make it out alive??? They kind of made it look he was doomed....but then 'end scene', 'new scene' and he's waking up on beach??? Kind of threw me off...but I will say that I am glad it wasn't 'end scene' wait till next week and start new episode with him on beach. That would have been typical of most shows I guess.

 

[FSUSarah]

How the hell did little man make it out alive??? They kind of made it look he was doomed....but then 'end scene', 'new scene' and he's waking up on beach??? Kind of threw me off...but I will say that I am glad it wasn't 'end scene' wait till next week and start new episode with him on beach. That would have been typical of most shows I guess.

You have to assume Jorah went in and got him. He even made a comment that he was heavier then he looks.

 

[DanC78]

You have to assume Jorah went in and got him. He even made a comment that he was heavier then he looks.

Yeah, I did pick up on that. I think it was that he was being drug down pretty deep but a guy who I assume is made of stone. Then he passes out and wakes up on a beach with his boat nowhere to be found, and really looked like they were a very good ways from where the fight took place. Just seemed like a stretch.

Also, I guess if you're touched by one of the stone guys you become one...wasn't he touched??? Like a lot it seemed.

 

[iupnole1]

Curious to know where Jorah and Tyrian are now. Are they now going to have to walk through valryia? Where is Varys also? I also don't understand why danerys would marry that guy. Isn't her end goal to rule the 7 kingdoms and not just mereen?

 

[FSUTribe76]

Curious to know where Jorah and Tyrian are now. Are they now going to have to walk through valryia? Where is Varys also? I also don't understand why danerys would marry that guy. Isn't her end goal to rule the 7 kingdoms and not just mereen?

That's bad writing (not giving motivation) by the scriptwriters and simultaneously a good example of why books are better than even tv series let alone movies. In the books, Dany feels forced to marry because shes conquered multiple cities not just one and one of the slave cities she has left behind immediately went back to slavery and turned on her bringing a giant army right towards her. So she marries a gay (not so apparently in the series) head of the current city she's in to 1) stop the uprising as he's the most likely leader of it (they're a little coy about it in the book but I assume he's the leader), 2) to basically solidify her rule over the city so that they can combat the other army coming right for her if it comes to that and 3) to try to calm the reason for the other city besieging her, by marrying and therefore becoming "one of them" and in their eyes controlled by a former slaver she's not as big of a threat as when she's a foreign princess leading an army of the deadliest slaves, sell swords and the remnants of the dothrakhi barbarians. She doesn't make this up herself, it's suggested by her council as a way to stabilise her situation which is quite dire.

 

[Superfan97]

I'm already not liking the changes from the books. Killing Mance Rayder one of the best characters (and actors on the show) to replace him with...I guess Tormond? Killing Selmy Barristan who is one of the bad%*%es of the book and whom the show spent seasons setting up with quotes from other bad%*%es like Jaime Lannister who was probably the second best saying "Barristan Selmy...He was a painter. A painter who used only red. I couldn't imagine being able to ever fight like that." And Ned saying to Selmy "I've glad I never met you on the battlefield. And so is my wife. A widow's life wouldn't suit her." Only to see the writers of the tv show when given a chance have Selmy get killed by a couple of random unnamed slavers. There's a great meme about it but I can't post it due to the sites iPhone programming.

Then changing up Ser Jorah Mormont to have Dragonscale?

Yeah I'm not liking the changes. The only change I've liked is skipping the whole Tyrion and dwarf girlfriend being put into the circus aspect and just advancing it so he ends up with Dany sooner.

I'm liking most of the changes. Mance was cool, but GRRM has been overplaying the "not-quite-dead"/ fake death thing (Mance, "Lady Stoneheart", Thoros, "Ser Robert Strong"), burning all the cred he established with Ned Stark. Time for deaths to be deaths again.

Killing Ser Barristan was a terrible move. I can only imagine they did that to create some reason for Dany to take Jorah back.

Jorah getting grayscale is just the latest case of compressing various overwrought, over-complex storylines. Good that they're ignoring, for instance, "Fake Arya", and replacing her with Sansa. That is much more simple, straightforward, and logical. Same thing with the guy in ADWD who does have the grayscale (Jon Connington)-- good that they eliminated the whole "young Griff" thing, as well as (hopefully) Penny, the circus, and them joining the sellswords.

The TV guys are continuing to do what an editor should have for the books.

The one storyline that I miss (though it makes sense given the cuts they have already made) is the Davos/Wyman Manderly story. Which, come to think of it, is another fake death. Just as well that they cut it too.

 

[Cribbs]

So who's Dire Wolves are left Aria, Jon, and young Starke brothers?

 

[iupnole1]

Arya's ran off and is in the wild. Jon has his still. Bran and Rickon each have theirs with them. The others are dead

 

[FSUTribe76]

So who's Dire Wolves are left Aria, Jon, and young Starke brothers?

Yes, only Sansa's Lady and Robbs Greywing were killed. Summer is hanging with Bran. Shaggydog is hanging with Rickon. Ghost is hanging with John but hasn't been shown for some reason (Fx $$$$$$). And Nymeria is not with Arya, she is roaming the countryside of the Riverlands leading a pack of normal woods eating men.

 

[Chug A Lug]

My only real complaint is Dany pursuing Hizdahr.

::SPOILER::

IIRC, in the book he begs & begs her, promising that he can get the violence to stop if she marries. Of course this makes it look like he's colluding with them, maybe even leading them or organizing the violence himself. But she's desperate, so she tells him to stop the violence first, and if they aren't killings for 90 days, she'll marry him. He makes the 90 days happen, which makes him look MORE guilty of being in league with the Harpy, but she made a promotion so she has to carry it out.

The show doesn't have the patience for a storyline like that to play out, I guess, but don't see why the change had to be that the marriage is her idea????

 

[HulaNole]

It's about dadgum time someone asked Samwell about how he killed the White Walker and actually hearing the words dragonglass be told to someone (Stannis). Been waiting on that.

A lot happened in that episode and it didn't include Cersei, the High Sparrow and his lot, the Tyrells, Tommen, Bron and Jamie's travel tales, Sand Snakes, Baelish, Varys, or Arya. They have to condense and move forward. As the show runners said something to the effect that Arya can't be 34 years old when they are shooting the show.

Great scenes with Jon Snow. Jon talking with Maester Aemon. With Tormund. With Olly.

Really awesome/creepy dinner scene and off the charts wacko post-dinner Father-Son chat. Move over Joffrey. You were a lightweight petulant child. Here is evil.

One person who actually always seems to be moving forward every season is Stannis.

 

[nolesfan73]

It's about dadgum time someone asked Samwell about how he killed the White Walker and actually hearing the words dragonglass be told to someone (Stannis). Been waiting on that.

A lot happened in that episode and it didn't include Cersei, the High Sparrow and his lot, the Tyrells, Tommen, Bron and Jamie's travel tales, Sand Snakes, Baelish, Varys, or Arya. They have to condense and move forward. As the show runners said something to the effect that Arya can't be 34 years old when they are shooting the show.

Great scenes with Jon Snow. Jon talking with Maester Aemon. With Tormund. With Olly.

Really awesome/creepy dinner scene and off the charts wacko post-dinner Father-Son chat. Move over Joffrey. You were a lightweight petulant child. Here is evil.

One person who actually always seems to be moving forward every season is Stannis.

I'm actually tired of Stannis...He got his ass kicked at the Battle of Blackwater Bay and he's been miserable bum ever since..He just needs to hurry the heck up and go to Winterfell

 

[HulaNole]

I understand. I don't think he is anyone's favorite character. He wasn't exactly doing standup before getting getting demolished at the Battle of the Blackwater either. But, at least he got on the boat to go see the bankers to try to keep moving forward. The "Fewer" line he said in this episode was funny to me though.

I did like one review that said something to the effect that "Sam's been reading books for five years and finally someone appreciates it" after Stannis came to see him.

 

[HulaNole]

Tyrion on his pleasure cruise with Jorah: "Long sullen silences and an occasional punch in the face". Awesome.

 

[mcgrawfsu]

In the book his death was a fake by Melisandrei so you must be forgetting the twist. As the books end he's waiting in Winterfell to be there to rescue who Jon thinks is Sansa (another big book difference, here Boltons not married to a fake Sansa but apparently will be to the real deal). Here it was entirely real (the actors already spoken on the matter saying nope he really is dead).

You are a little off. It was fake Arya. And Mance was sent there by Jon after realizing Mance was still alive

 

[iupnole1]

How confusing is it reading the books? Fake characters and fake deaths? Plus hundreds of more characters and back stories. No wonder he's been writing these books for 20 years

 

[nolelan]

How confusing is it reading the books? Fake characters and fake deaths? Plus hundreds of more characters and back stories. No wonder he's been writing these books for 20 years

Its not too bad keeping up in the books. There is also a list of many of the characters in the back of the books if you get confused.

 

[FSUTribe76]

How confusing is it reading the books? Fake characters and fake deaths? Plus hundreds of more characters and back stories. No wonder he's been writing these books for 20 years

It's not too bad although from Memory I thought Jeyne was supposed to be a fake Sansa not a fake Arya, but it doesn't matter she's a small part. The important part was that I remembered the Boltons had a fake Stark girl to bolster their claim to Winterfell.

But yeah, GRRM has overdone a couple of tricks in the series with too many characters coming back. BUT...magic is playing a much bigger part of the books than it is in the series. Both the Drowned God and Red God characters can now apparently revive (to a lesser extent) characters and magic is growing stronger as the years go by. Meanwhile in the show, it only shows up VERY sporadically.

 

[nolelan]

It's not too bad although from Memory I thought Jeyne was supposed to be a fake Sansa not a fake Arya, but it doesn't matter she's a small part. The important part was that I remembered the Boltons had a fake Stark girl to bolster their claim to Winterfell.

But yeah, GRRM has overdone a couple of tricks in the series with too many characters coming back. BUT...magic is playing a much bigger part of the books than it is in the series. Both the Drowned God and Red God characters can now apparently revive (to a lesser extent) characters and magic is growing stronger as the years go by. Meanwhile in the show, it only shows up VERY sporadically.

You have to wonder if all of the "magic" coming back is related to the reemergence of the white walkers. They were back doing their stuff before the dragons hatched which was also likely caused by magic.
What is drawing the white walkers now, a thousand years since they were last seen.

 

[FSUTribe76]

It

You have to wonder if all of the "magic" coming back is related to the reemergence of the white walkers. They were back doing their stuff before the dragons hatched which was also likely caused by magic.
What is drawing the white walkers now, a thousand years since they were last seen.

If I were to take a stab at where things are going on a global scale, it would be that there's basically three sides (Fire/Life gods with the Red God, the Lightning God of Dothraki and other life (but chaotic life) gods on one, the Cold/Death/Ice gods with the Great Other, Drowned God, Death/Many Faced God on the other with the Earth gods of the Children and Northern Men standing weak and in between. Fire and Ice sides took a long time to recover after the last global war and are just now starting rev back up the magical engines to have another cosmic collision.

As far as which side is right, I'm guessing it's a B5 type of philosophy of ALL the gods are awful and detrimental to man. You'll notice that the "kinder" gods of the Seven have NOT been showing up with any power. The power of the Seven seems to just be humanity.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Definitely the white walkers and dragons reappearing are no coincidence. But I'm guessing, the gods stirring are what triggered them and not vice versa.

 

[YoungNole]

Definitely the white walkers and dragons reappearing are no coincidence. But I'm guessing, the gods stirring are what triggered them and not vice versa.

To me, the whole series revolves around the death of Jon Arryn (you could even make an argument that Robert's untimely death is just as impactful, although logic follows Cersei would've murdered him at some point or other).

Do you think the gods put forth these sequences of events to get the ball rolling directly or is it more of a "well this incident happened amongst the people, let's see what we can get out of it"?

 

[nolelan]

Well the death of Jon Arryn put some of the events in motion like Ned going to Kings Landing where he died which led to Robb going to war..etc. etc.

but that had no real impact on the Dany/dragons and the White walkers which to me are the big variables in the overall story.

 

[FSUTribe76]

To me, the whole series revolves around the death of Jon Arryn (you could even make an argument that Robert's untimely death is just as impactful, although logic follows Cersei would've murdered him at some point or other).

Do you think the gods put forth these sequences of events to get the ball rolling directly or is it more of a "well this incident happened amongst the people, let's see what we can get out of it"?

That's a great question.


Spoilers Follow (and this is on iPhone so I can't do the spoiler box)




Stop reading if you're a bibliophobe as they haven't bothered to give any of these details and just left the real killer of Jon Arryn unknown.






Most of the intrigue in Westeros is directly tied to the hands of Littlefinger (who killed Jon Arryn via Lysa poisoning her own husband), Varys, Olenna Tyrell and Melisandre. Only Melisandre is tied to one of the gods (that we know of, Varys may well be as well). So I don't think there's been any indicators that Olenna or Littlefinger are tied into the gods and their actions would either be NOT directly part of the gods schemes against each other OR they've been acting more indirectly than the rest of their actions.

 

[Chug A Lug]

To me, much of it can be summed up by a line by Osha in the first season (I can't remember if it was in the books or not) when she said how all the armies are heading south to bicker over the throne when they should be heading North to meet the white walkers. The realm is doomed (by either the white walkers or the dragons) because the realm cannot be united. In the books, Tywin was even happy to not send help to the Wall so that the North would be tied up fighting them and be easier to defeat.

 

[YoungNole]

That's a great question.


Spoilers Follow (and this is on iPhone so I can't do the spoiler box)




Stop reading if you're a bibliophobe as they haven't bothered to give any of these details and just left the real killer of Jon Arryn unknown.






Most of the intrigue in Westeros is directly tied to the hands of Littlefinger (who killed Jon Arryn via Lysa poisoning her own husband), Varys, Olenna Tyrell and Melisandre. Only Melisandre is tied to one of the gods (that we know of, Varys may well be as well). So I don't think there's been any indicators that Olenna or Littlefinger are tied into the gods and their actions would either be NOT directly part of the gods schemes against each other OR they've been acting more indirectly than the rest of their actions.

Man would it be something else if it turns out Petyr, knowing he can't beat men straight up, turned to magic/godly power to get what he wants!