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Here we go again with Winston / Kinsman sued Jameis today

Originally posted by Lemon Thrower:
Originally posted by AllNoles:

Unless she told someone that she was planning to hook up with an athlete and then lie about being raped to make money off the encounter, none of the stuff before that night will come in.
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assuming she was in a clique that called themselves FSUcleatchasers, i would think that information would be allowed in under the Constitution, regardless of what the rape shield law says. Being in a group whose sole purpose is sleeping with FSU athletes is strong evidence of consent; i wouldn't call this collateral.
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Um, no. If she had written a blog about how much she loves to have sex with FSU athletes, it still would not be admissible. That she had consensual sex in other situations does not mean she consented here.

The only way #cleatchasers comes in is if a judge is convinced that it tends to prove she is not being truthful when she says she did not know who Winston was the night of the incident. Whether she lied or not about the identification is very relevant to the case, so evidence tending to prove or disprove that fact is likely to be admitted. This will depend on whether someone can tie #cleatchasers to actually knowing the players by sight. It might. It might not. There is likely better evidence through friends, however. If someone can confirm that EK had talked about Winston before that night and that she knew who he was from baseball games or other places, she will have an even harder time in this case.
 
Here's a link that explains what is admissible, and what isn't. It's a bit gray in some areas.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/compose.asp?sid=1061&fid=1083&style=2&rid=180045238&tid=180045238
 
I still want to know her explanation for why amylase (saliva) was on her vagina when she claims no oral sex was involved (something Winston, Casher, and Darby all refute).
 
Originally posted by AllNoles:
Originally posted by Lemon Thrower:
Originally posted by AllNoles:

Unless she told someone that she was planning to hook up with an athlete and then lie about being raped to make money off the encounter, none of the stuff before that night will come in.
Click to expand...
assuming she was in a clique that called themselves FSUcleatchasers, i would think that information would be allowed in under the Constitution, regardless of what the rape shield law says. Being in a group whose sole purpose is sleeping with FSU athletes is strong evidence of consent; i wouldn't call this collateral.
Click to expand...
Um, no. If she had written a blog about how much she loves to have sex with FSU athletes, it still would not be admissible. That she had consensual sex in other situations does not mean she consented here.

The only way #cleatchasers comes in is if a judge is convinced that it tends to prove she is not being truthful when she says she did not know who Winston was the night of the incident. Whether she lied or not about the identification is very relevant to the case, so evidence tending to prove or disprove that fact is likely to be admitted. This will depend on whether someone can tie #cleatchasers to actually knowing the players by sight. It might. It might not. There is likely better evidence through friends, however. If someone can confirm that EK had talked about Winston before that night and that she knew who he was from baseball games or other places, she will have an even harder time in this case.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be something if Winston's side rolled a witness list of sorority sisters? And told her lawyers that there are witnesses she knew who he was before the encounter. And even took it a step further that she confided in a couple she regretted it and admitted to giving oral. But didn't feel good about the bathroom because it got rougher than she had ever experienced but doesn't recall ever saying no. Just that she was in pain and regretted it.
 
Some of those statements might come in if she made them. I can imagine a number of her cohorts being deposed. This suit may uncover some exculpatory information, but keep in mind that one theory has the whole point of her reporting serving as an attempt to salvage a reputation based on potential release of a sex tape. If reputation is/was that important to her, it makes it less likely she confided such things. Also, she would probably be more than a little freaked out if she had in fact filed a false police report. She may have, in fact, simply hoped it would all go away....hence the delay in follow up response to TPD>
 
Originally posted by AllNoles:
Originally posted by Lemon Thrower:
Originally posted by AllNoles:

Unless she told someone that she was planning to hook up with an athlete and then lie about being raped to make money off the encounter, none of the stuff before that night will come in.
Click to expand...
assuming she was in a clique that called themselves FSUcleatchasers, i would think that information would be allowed in under the Constitution, regardless of what the rape shield law says. Being in a group whose sole purpose is sleeping with FSU athletes is strong evidence of consent; i wouldn't call this collateral.
Click to expand...
Um, no. If she had written a blog about how much she loves to have sex with FSU athletes, it still would not be admissible. That she had consensual sex in other situations does not mean she consented here.

The only way #cleatchasers comes in is if a judge is convinced that it tends to prove she is not being truthful when she says she did not know who Winston was the night of the incident. Whether she lied or not about the identification is very relevant to the case, so evidence tending to prove or disprove that fact is likely to be admitted. This will depend on whether someone can tie #cleatchasers to actually knowing the players by sight. It might. It might not. There is likely better evidence through friends, however. If someone can confirm that EK had talked about Winston before that night and that she knew who he was from baseball games or other places, she will have an even harder time in this case.
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is your analysis based on 403 or rape shield?

admittedly, i was confusing civil and criminal. but in civil, does rape shield apply since she is putting the issue out there, especially in the context of a defamation counterclaim?
 
Combo of both. That she liked having sex with fsu athletes isn't relevant to whether she consented with Winston. To the extent someone would think it was, that's definitely a 403 issue.

Having sex and making false claims might be relevant (but may require a pattern) but simply being sexually active and liking players doesn't tend to prove or disprove anything.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by West Duval Nole:

Originally posted by AllNoles:
Originally posted by Lemon Thrower:
Originally posted by AllNoles:

Unless she told someone that she was planning to hook up with an athlete and then lie about being raped to make money off the encounter, none of the stuff before that night will come in.
Click to expand...
assuming she was in a clique that called themselves FSUcleatchasers, i would think that information would be allowed in under the Constitution, regardless of what the rape shield law says. Being in a group whose sole purpose is sleeping with FSU athletes is strong evidence of consent; i wouldn't call this collateral.
Click to expand...
Um, no. If she had written a blog about how much she loves to have sex with FSU athletes, it still would not be admissible. That she had consensual sex in other situations does not mean she consented here.

The only way #cleatchasers comes in is if a judge is convinced that it tends to prove she is not being truthful when she says she did not know who Winston was the night of the incident. Whether she lied or not about the identification is very relevant to the case, so evidence tending to prove or disprove that fact is likely to be admitted. This will depend on whether someone can tie #cleatchasers to actually knowing the players by sight. It might. It might not. There is likely better evidence through friends, however. If someone can confirm that EK had talked about Winston before that night and that she knew who he was from baseball games or other places, she will have an even harder time in this case.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be something if Winston's side rolled a witness list of sorority sisters? And told her lawyers that there are witnesses she knew who he was before the encounter. And even took it a step further that she confided in a couple she regretted it and admitted to giving oral. But didn't feel good about the bathroom because it got rougher than she had ever experienced but doesn't recall ever saying no. Just that she was in pain and regretted it.
Click to expand...
Well that would be very bad for her. The two girls I've talked to in that sorority told me they never heard anything like that. But they weren't close to her, either.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by AllNoles:

Originally posted by West Duval Nole:


Originally posted by AllNoles:

Originally posted by Lemon Thrower:

Originally posted by AllNoles:

Unless she told someone that she was planning to hook up with an athlete and then lie about being raped to make money off the encounter, none of the stuff before that night will come in.
Click to expand...
assuming she was in a clique that called themselves FSUcleatchasers, i would think that information would be allowed in under the Constitution, regardless of what the rape shield law says. Being in a group whose sole purpose is sleeping with FSU athletes is strong evidence of consent; i wouldn't call this collateral.
Click to expand...
Um, no. If she had written a blog about how much she loves to have sex with FSU athletes, it still would not be admissible. That she had consensual sex in other situations does not mean she consented here.

The only way #cleatchasers comes in is if a judge is convinced that it tends to prove she is not being truthful when she says she did not know who Winston was the night of the incident. Whether she lied or not about the identification is very relevant to the case, so evidence tending to prove or disprove that fact is likely to be admitted. This will depend on whether someone can tie #cleatchasers to actually knowing the players by sight. It might. It might not. There is likely better evidence through friends, however. If someone can confirm that EK had talked about Winston before that night and that she knew who he was from baseball games or other places, she will have an even harder time in this case.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be something if Winston's side rolled a witness list of sorority sisters? And told her lawyers that there are witnesses she knew who he was before the encounter. And even took it a step further that she confided in a couple she regretted it and admitted to giving oral. But didn't feel good about the bathroom because it got rougher than she had ever experienced but doesn't recall ever saying no. Just that she was in pain and regretted it.
Click to expand...
Well that would be very bad for her. The two girls I've talked to in that sorority told me they never heard anything like that. But they weren't close to her, either.


Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
You have talked to her Sorority sisters?


/
 
Yes. One if my good friends daughter was in that sorority. Talked to her and one of her sorority sisters. Neither was saying Winston raped her, but neither had a bad thing to say about EK, either.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
AllNoles said:
Um, no. If she had written a blog about how much she loves to have sex with FSU athletes, it still would not be admissible. That she had consensual sex in other situations does not mean she consented here.

The only way #cleatchasers comes in is if a judge is convinced that it tends to prove she is not being truthful when she says she did not know who Winston was the night of the incident. Whether she lied or not about the identification is very relevant to the case, so evidence tending to prove or disprove that fact is likely to be admitted. This will depend on whether someone can tie #cleatchasers to actually knowing the players by sight. It might. It might not. There is likely better evidence through friends, however. If someone can confirm that EK had talked about Winston before that night and that she knew who he was from baseball games or other places, she will have an even harder time in this case.
Click to expand...

Winston didn't play anything prior to Fall 2012. Only way she'd know about him is through recruiting or watching Elite 11 (or watching football games with him on the sidelines).
 
oldscalphunter said:
Winston didn't play anything prior to Fall 2012. Only way she'd know about him is through recruiting or watching Elite 11 (or watching football games with him on the sidelines).
Click to expand...
Or, her bf who played at Kent St, he would know about an Elite 11 QB? Many ways as an fsu student, member of "cleat chasers" she would know who Jameis was. Someone(s) at Pot Belly's could have informed her, ad infinitum.
 
stancan said:
Or, her bf who played at Kent St, he would know about an Elite 11 QB? Many ways as an fsu student, member of "cleat chasers" she would know who Jameis was. Someone(s) at Pot Belly's could have informed her, ad infinitum.
Click to expand...

Does anyone actually believe that she didn't know who he was when she talked to Angulo on 12/7? She may not have known who he was prior to meeting him, but there's literally no way in hell that she didn't at least know "Jameis on the football/baseball team" after sleeping with him. I mean she admitted to knowing Casher and claimed she didn't see him after leaving the bar. Yeah right.
 
The theory that she set this grand scheme up from day 1 to be the gold digger is not true.

She isn't that smart, so don't give her credit for predicting the future. She and her gang were going to let this die until they saw Winston being successful and then gave the tip to Matt Baker and TMZ to look into that file number. The $$$ signs danced in her head only after she realized her one night stand that dropped her off on a moped would soon be a multi millionaire.

Plus, she didn't even intend to nessesarly call the cops. If she didn't make up some BS story to her friend about being hit over the head at a party her FRIEND wouldn't have called the cops in the first place. At that point, she already started digging and couldn't back track on her police report.

If she really wanted to catch the guy that did this, she wouldn't have deleted his number from her phone.
 
stancan said:
Or, her bf who played at Kent St, he would know about an Elite 11 QB? Many ways as an fsu student, member of "cleat chasers" she would know who Jameis was. Someone(s) at Pot Belly's could have informed her, ad infinitum.
Click to expand...

I only meant prior to that night. She most likely knew who he was, but it wasn't from him actually playing in a game.
 
DB1Nole said:
The theory that she set this grand scheme up from day 1 to be the gold digger is not true.

She isn't that smart, so don't give her credit for predicting the future. She and her gang were going to let this die until they saw Winston being successful and then gave the tip to Matt Baker and TMZ to look into that file number. The $$$ signs danced in her head only after she realized her one night stand that dropped her off on a moped would soon be a multi millionaire.

Plus, she didn't even intend to nessesarly call the cops. If she didn't make up some BS story to her friend about being hit over the head at a party her FRIEND wouldn't have called the cops in the first place. At that point, she already started digging and couldn't back track on her police report.

If she really wanted to catch the guy that did this, she wouldn't have deleted his number from her phone.
Click to expand...

Was she the one who wanted it to be public? (I've always thought it was her Kent St bf). Did she not want this to go away? (I think she did). I can make an educated guess as to why she claimed rape, and a pretty educated guess as to why she perpetuated the lie after it became public. But if it was EK who leaked the story, my theory is crap.
 
oldscalphunter said:
Was she the one who wanted it to be public? (I've always thought it was her Kent St bf). Did she not want this to go away? (I think she did). I can make an educated guess as to why she claimed rape, and a pretty educated guess as to why she perpetuated the lie after it became public. But if it was EK who leaked the story, my theory is crap.
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Kinsman played volleyball at a HS on Matt Baker's beat, and I believe wrote several stories about her/her team. Matt Baker was the reporter who "broke" the story. You don't have to be Evil Keneivel (sp?) to make the jump here.
 
stancan said:
Or, her bf who played at Kent St, he would know about an Elite 11 QB? Many ways as an fsu student, member of "cleat chasers" she would know who Jameis was. Someone(s) at Pot Belly's could have informed her, ad infinitum.
Click to expand...

I thought in Winston's statement read at the CoC hearing, he reported that he introduced himself to EK that night at Pot Belly's. If she didn;t know his name prior to that evening, per JW's CoC statement, she knew his name before she went home with him.
 
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vevois23 said:
Kinsman played volleyball at a HS on Matt Baker's beat, and I believe wrote several stories about her/her team. Matt Baker was the reporter who "broke" the story. You don't have to be Evil Keneivel (sp?) to make the jump here.
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@vevois23 I asked Baker on Twitter last week what his relation to EK Was. He said he had no relation and has never met her before. Straight face, too.



 
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I suspect he never has spoken to her. But clearly her lawyer is dropping dimes about the suit. Plausible deniability.
 
vevois23 said:
I cannot believe that he honestly expects people to believe that he has no ties to her/her camp. That is a monumental leap in stupid if he really is going that route.
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I think he was pretty careful in the response. Not related to her, never spoken to her...
I'm sure he has talked to her family members, lawyers, etc. It's simply not believable that those around her haven't fed him info and documents. How else is he breaking the stories?
 
vevois23 said:
Kinsman played volleyball at a HS on Matt Baker's beat, and I believe wrote several stories about her/her team. Matt Baker was the reporter who "broke" the story. You don't have to be Evil Keneivel (sp?) to make the jump here.
Click to expand...

Didn't he cover her Kent State boyfriend as well? Could've just as easily been her boyfriend (and more likely her boyfriend, if she really did want to stay at FSU). But her brother also seems like a loose cannon/somewhat evil kid & could've done it as well.
 
oldscalphunter said:
Didn't he cover her Kent State boyfriend as well? Could've just as easily been her boyfriend (and more likely her boyfriend, if she really did want to stay at FSU). But her brother also seems like a loose cannon/somewhat evil kid & could've done it as well.
Click to expand...

Her BF would have leaked the case number to a reporter? To what end?

The brother? Don't know enough about him or his situation to comment.


My personal belief is that this wasn't premeditated in the sense that she wanted to hook up with him for later profit. She wanted her profit then. She wanted to be JW's girl. Unfortunately she didn't get that (anyone else remember that JW's actual GF was coming in from Texas later that day?). When she got home and started boohooing a friend took it too far in contacting a former coach who called the parents. From there things spiraled out of control and she intentionally deflected the investigation (wrong description, deleting number, having multiple stories, etc). The case died and wasn't properly closed out by TPD. Fast Forward to the fall and JW is having his meteoric rise, multiple outlets are reporting that he would be the 1st pick if he could leave that year. Aunt Pat lights up and starts pressuring family, parents still see it as "their little girl never got her justice, but might get enough press to force the issue", EK still clouds everything by not revealing earlier sex, BF in town from another football program for identification, and tries to get friends to lie for her. We all can draw our own conclusions about how things have gone since the reveal.
 
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vevois23 said:
Her BF would have leaked the case number to a reporter? To what end?

The brother? Don't know enough about him or his situation to comment.


My personal belief is that this wasn't premeditated in the sense that she wanted to hook up with him for later profit. She wanted her profit then. She wanted to be JW's girl. Unfortunately she didn't get that (anyone else remember that JW's actual GF was coming in from Texas later that day?). When she got home and started boohooing a friend took it too far in contacting a former coach who called the parents. From there things spiraled out of control and she intentionally deflected the investigation (wrong description, deleting number, having multiple stories, etc). The case died and wasn't properly closed out by TPD. Fast Forward to the fall and JW is having his meteoric rise, multiple outlets are reporting that he would be the 1st pick if he could leave that year. Aunt Pat lights up and starts pressuring family, parents still see it as "their little girl never got her justice, but might get enough press to force the issue", EK still clouds everything by not revealing earlier sex, BF in town from another football program for identification, and tries to get friends to lie for her. We all can draw our own conclusions about how things have gone since the reveal.
Click to expand...

I think she made the initial report because she was worried about Casher's video/pictures surfacing & causing issues with bf. The case # was sold to TMZ, I believe (and probably Baker as well). I think the whole thing has snowballed... I don't think they had much of a plan when the case was leaked/reopened or they'd have already prepped her friends. They were scrambling. I do think she knew about it after the case # was leaked, but I don't think that's what she wanted to happen.
 
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The Kent State football player was not her "boyfriend". "Boyfriend" and "girlfriend" implies a serious relationship. The only reason her camp refers to him as "boyfriend" is because it makes her look like less of a floozy. Her friends were obviously unaware of her having a "boyfriend". Heck, Marcus stated that if she was dating anyone at the time it was him. Epic fail on that kids part.
 
SKSnole said:
The Kent State football player was not her "boyfriend". "Boyfriend" and "girlfriend" implies a serious relationship. The only reason her camp refers to him as "boyfriend" is because it makes her look like less of a floozy. Her friends were obviously unaware of her having a "boyfriend". Heck, Marcus stated that if she was dating anyone at the time it was him. Epic fail on that kids part.
Click to expand...
When did Marcus say that? I've read the SAO report & hearing transcript and do not recall that.
 
scalp,

It was in his recorded interview with the SAO. It's why he submitted his DNA for testing. Before the tape cuts off the investigator says something to the effect of "That leads me to my next question" meaning that he thought the foreign DNA might belong to Marcus. You can probably find the audio interview online.
 
didn't realize he said that... but I don't think that necessarily makes jamaal not her boyfriend at the time... just makes her appear loose.

thank you for linking that though. I hadn't listened to it.
 
oldscalphunter said:
I think she made the initial report because she was worried about Casher's video/pictures surfacing & causing issues with bf. The case # was sold to TMZ, I believe (and probably Baker as well). I think the whole thing has snowballed... I don't think they had much of a plan when the case was leaked/reopened or they'd have already prepped her friends. They were scrambling. I do think she knew about it after the case # was leaked, but I don't think that's what she wanted to happen.
Click to expand...
 
vevois23 said:
I cannot believe that he honestly expects people to believe that he has no ties to her/her camp. That is a monumental leap in stupid if he really is going that route.
Click to expand...

And yet Mr. Baker requested a case file number known only to law enforcement and the victim/victim's attorney. I wonder which theory he operates under:

1) people are too lazy to really ever dig into his communications/relationships/past beat coverage in Zhills and uncover his obvious bias
2) once the media frenzy started, the smell of fresh blood blinds everyone to the relationship between the sharks
 
vevois23 said:
Her BF would have leaked the case number to a reporter? To what end?

The brother? Don't know enough about him or his situation to comment.


My personal belief is that this wasn't premeditated in the sense that she wanted to hook up with him for later profit. She wanted her profit then. She wanted to be JW's girl. Unfortunately she didn't get that (anyone else remember that JW's actual GF was coming in from Texas later that day?). When she got home and started boohooing a friend took it too far in contacting a former coach who called the parents. From there things spiraled out of control and she intentionally deflected the investigation (wrong description, deleting number, having multiple stories, etc). The case died and wasn't properly closed out by TPD. Fast Forward to the fall and JW is having his meteoric rise, multiple outlets are reporting that he would be the 1st pick if he could leave that year. Aunt Pat lights up and starts pressuring family, parents still see it as "their little girl never got her justice, but might get enough press to force the issue", EK still clouds everything by not revealing earlier sex, BF in town from another football program for identification, and tries to get friends to lie for her. We all can draw our own conclusions about how things have gone since the reveal.
Click to expand...

My belief is that Erika was upset about the one night stand and then got scared while telling her friend about it, and made up some BS story. She probably wanted this to all go away, but her Mom told the carpet munching gator aunt ambulance chaser attorney, who saw it as an opportunity to try to profit at FSU's expense (monetarily and reputation-wise). It just seemed, based on the twitterverse, that Erika had moved on. She made positive posts about the football team and even one about Jameis. And so it was silent until it all came out directly tied to the timing of Mariota and Oregon losing and Winston becoming the obvious Heisman leader and FSU jumping up in the polls. This was not a coincidence. Those are old TGRRT tactics.
 
Vevois and Shaolin, you gave some compelling scenarios. One thing that doesn't seem to fit the idea of a purposely false description / wanting this to go away until money was a factor, is her decision to peg Winston to the police after seeing him in class in January 2013. Regardless though, her current story as detailed in the lawsuit, starting with the switch to now saying Winston gave her additional drinks, I consider to be certainly filled with lies crafted by her legal team. From the moment she's in the cab the whole thing reads like something crafted by the screenwriter for "Birth of a Nation".
 
Spearchucker87 said:
Vevois and Shaolin, you gave some compelling scenarios. One thing that doesn't seem to fit the idea of a purposely false description / wanting this to go away until money was a factor, is her decision to peg Winston to the police after seeing him in class in January 2013. ...
Click to expand...

This is the one question I have never been able to resolve in my mind: What changed to make her name him to the Police?

I am in the camp of the Casher Video being the cause of her initial story to friends. She was trying to make a cover story if the video ever leaked. I think it is fairly obvious that she never intended to involve the police. She told the story to a friend who then called home. Once the parents were involved the train left the station.

It also seems obvious that she initially didn't want the case to go anywhere. The initial incorrect description of the "assailant", the hazy recollection of events and people, and the refusal to cooperate all point to this.

So what happened in January to make her name Jameis? The only thing I can come up with is that her parents and family were pressuring her to fill in the blanks because it was so obviously implausible. She succumbed to that pressure and finally named him w/ the excuse of having him being in class being the vehicle for doing so.

This explanation isn't wholly satisfying but it's the best I've got so far.

Anyone else out there have compelling theories as to what might have changed for her to name Jameis?

SFNole
 
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