Jameis Winston

[bpicolo]

The only time I remember the media being especially hard on Winston was during the whole rape thing. Beyond that, I really never saw what you are implying. Granted, I dont live in Florida, so I am sure local media focuses on him, and Florida sports in general, more than national media or local media in other parts of the country. And I get this is a college board obviously, but it feels to me a lot of people on this board still look at him through a FSU or college prism, but he is a pro now and should be looked at through a pro prism. There is no question he has ability and tons of potential, and no question he has gotten off to a nice start in his career. At the same time, there are a lot of good young QBs who are off to equally good starts and have just as much potential, and I dont know that Winston has separated himself at all from Mariota, Carr, or Prescott, who are all off to equally good starts, and he certainly cant be compared to Brady, Rodgers, Brees at this point. My point being, 28 games is no where near enough time to start projecting guys to the HOF or what not, which some people on this board are doing. And yes, he probably does have a lot of nice attributes you want in a NFL qb from leadership, competitiveness, and skill set wise. The thing is, to be a good NFL QB, you have to have those things, so he isnt unique in that regard.

He is 22 years old and objectively, one of the 15 best quarterbacks in the NFL (that is, the world, already) already. He doesn't play with the offensive talent that Mariota, Carr or Prescott play with and has been a top 5 QB in the league by TQBr the last 6 weeks. His skill set is a lot more unique than you're giving him credit for, as he has a team with limited talent on his back making a real push for the play offs on the strength of his leadership, intelligence, will and execution. He has the look of a star in the league for a long time, seen through a "pro prism."

The only time the media was especially hard on Winston was the "whole rape thing."?. Let me be clear. The New York times drove home a narrative that was a lie to support a political agenda. They tried to destroy the young man. And yes, that is objectively established and available to any interested party caring to do a line by line examination of the evidence.

 

[mlanton]

He is 22 years old and objectively, one of the 15 best quarterbacks in the NFL (that is, the world, already) already. He doesn't play with the offensive talent that Mariota, Carr or Prescott play with and has been a top 5 QB in the league by TQBr the last 6 weeks. His skill set is a lot more unique than you're giving him credit for, as he has a team with limited talent on his back making a real push for the play offs on the strength of his leadership, intelligence, will and execution. He has the look of a star in the league for a long time, seen through a "pro prism."

The only time the media was especially hard on Winston was the "whole rape thing."?. Let me be clear. The New York times drove home a narrative that was a lie to support a political agenda. They tried to destroy the young man. And yes, that is objectively established and available to any interested party caring to do a line by line examination of the evidence.

^^^^^ Word!!!

 

[jaswinnie]

Heard the other day on one of the Bucs player shows on the radio Allie Marpet and Donovan Smith two of Jameis's offensive lineman both say they have never met and athlete or QB who wants to WIN worse then Jameis. They also said Jameis will do anything and everything to help any one of his teammates to get as good as they can be. He comes early and stays late regardless if it's a lineman, back or receiver to get better.

 

[Cubs79]

He is 22 years old and objectively, one of the 15 best quarterbacks in the NFL (that is, the world, already) already. He doesn't play with the offensive talent that Mariota, Carr or Prescott play with and has been a top 5 QB in the league by TQBr the last 6 weeks. His skill set is a lot more unique than you're giving him credit for, as he has a team with limited talent on his back making a real push for the play offs on the strength of his leadership, intelligence, will and execution. He has the look of a star in the league for a long time, seen through a "pro prism."

The only time the media was especially hard on Winston was the "whole rape thing."?. Let me be clear. The New York times drove home a narrative that was a lie to support a political agenda. They tried to destroy the young man. And yes, that is objectively established and available to any interested party caring to do a line by line examination of the evidence.

He doesnt have the talent Prescott has for sure, but I would absolutely argue he has the talent that Mariota has, and certainly had more talent last year. The Titans offense is much improved this year for sure with their line and running game, but Mariota's receiving corp are guys who are in reality #2 and #3 type receivers, where as Jameis does have a legit #1 receiver in Evans.

But again, everything you just said can be applied to Mariota. Marcus is 3 months older than Jameis, so they are the same age. And when you say one of the top 15 QBs in the league, I would agree, but there are only 32 starting QBs, so top 15 would basically be the definition of average would it not? (and no, I am not saying he is average, but that is kind of what you were saying) The Titans are also in playoff contention just like the Bucs, Mariota was AFC offensive player of the month in November, (lead the league in yards, TDs, passer rating, and yards per attempt) so he is obviously playing really well, and I think it can be argued he has been top a 5 QB in the league over the last month and a half or so. I am not hating on Jameis at all, dont take it the wrong way. But the very first post brings up the HOF, and I am just saying, nobody is on their way to the HOF after 28 games. I just think some of you guys are a bit premature with how great you think Jameis is at this point. He might be great for sure, at this point is a good looking young QB, but lets slow down the HOF talk and what not.

 

[Cubs79]

Heard the other day on one of the Bucs player shows on the radio Allie Marpet and Donovan Smith two of Jameis's offensive lineman both say they have never met and athlete or QB who wants to WIN worse then Jameis. They also said Jameis will do anything and everything to help any one of his teammates to get as good as they can be. He comes early and stays late regardless if it's a lineman, back or receiver to get better.

You dont think Patriot players say the same thing about Brady? Titans about Mariota? Saints about Brees? Etc Etc. It's obviously a nice compliment, but plenty of QBs are highly respected by their teams.

 

[bpicolo]

He doesnt have the talent Prescott has for sure, but I would absolutely argue he has the talent that Mariota has, and certainly had more talent last year. The Titans offense is much improved this year for sure with their line and running game, but Mariota's receiving corp are guys who are in reality #2 and #3 type receivers, where as Jameis does have a legit #1 receiver in Evans.

But again, everything you just said can be applied to Mariota. Marcus is 3 months older than Jameis, so they are the same age. And when you say one of the top 15 QBs in the league, I would agree, but there are only 32 starting QBs, so top 15 would basically be the definition of average would it not? (and no, I am not saying he is average, but that is kind of what you were saying) The Titans are also in playoff contention just like the Bucs, Mariota was AFC offensive player of the month in November, (lead the league in yards, TDs, passer rating, and yards per attempt) so he is obviously playing really well, and I think it can be argued he has been top a 5 QB in the league over the last month and a half or so. I am not hating on Jameis at all, dont take it the wrong way. But the very first post brings up the HOF, and I am just saying, nobody is on their way to the HOF after 28 games. I just think some of you guys are a bit premature with how great you think Jameis is at this point. He might be great for sure, at this point is a good looking young QB, but lets slow down the HOF talk and what not.

M


Dak Prescott is definitely better than Jameis?

He plays with the best offensive talent in the league, doesn't have to to take risks with the ball to score, meaning throw into tight windows, under pressure every play, with limited guys in the pattern because they're blocking. Dallas doesn't have to ride his arm. Jameis is playing with a bunch of guys not even on NFL rosters when the year started at both RB and WR. Given this, I've seen data demonstrating he's been under pressure more than any QB in the league, yet more productive than any QB in the league under pressure. You're drawing conclusions supported by too little data, as well.

It all has to play out, over years.

Who's the better QB, Drew Brees or Tom Brady? Both are Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Very different skill sets. One plays with a decent organization, at best. One plays with the best organization in the league.

Out.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

The only time I remember the media being especially hard on Winston was during the whole rape thing. Beyond that, I really never saw what you are implying. Granted, I dont live in Florida, so I am sure local media focuses on him, and Florida sports in general, more than national media or local media in other parts of the country.

No offense but you really don't get it all. Probably best to lay off the threads because you're trying to justify or search for some other purpose to discuss Winston yet quite uninformed of the bigger picture. Nothing personal, like I said there's more to understanding the threads and comments than you are letting on to.

Without the bigger context it's really just being pedantic and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

 

[Cubs79]

No offense but you really don't get it all. Probably best to lay off the threads because you're trying to justify or search for some other purpose to discuss Winston yet quite uninformed of the bigger picture. Nothing personal, like I said there's more to understanding the threads and comments than you are letting on to.

Without the bigger context it's really just being pedantic and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

Huh? I would argue quite the opposite. There are people on this board arguing that Jameis is on pace to be a HOFer and even the greatest QB of all time. Someone with an understanding of the NFL is not going to remotely put a player on that type of pedestal after 28 games. We have seen many flash in the pan type players that have a nice stretch and then end up being average, sometimes due to injury, sometimes for other reasons. Or, we have players that look good early, but never improve much over the course of their careers. Jameis has been impressive for a young QB, but from a HOF standard, he is no where close, and obviously has to improve tremendously to even be discussing that. He might very well do that, I have not once dismissed that possibility, but I am saying let's wait it out before we start giving him all of these amazing career accolades. I am not saying that is going to happen with Jameis, but at the same time, there is no way anyone who closely follows the NFL can already put Jameis on the type of pedestal some people are putting him on. So no, it is not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, it is disagreeing

 

[Cubs79]

M


Dak Prescott is definitely better than Jameis?

He plays with the best offensive talent in the league, doesn't have to to take risks with the ball to score, meaning throw into tight windows, under pressure every play, with limited guys in the pattern because they're blocking. Dallas doesn't have to ride his arm. Jameis is playing with a bunch of guys not even on NFL rosters when the year started at both RB and WR. Given this, I've seen data demonstrating he's been under pressure more than any QB in the league, yet more productive than any QB in the league under pressure. You're drawing conclusions supported by too little data, as well.

It all has to play out, over years.

Who's the better QB, Drew Brees or Tom Brady? Both are Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Very different skill sets. One plays with a decent organization, at best. One plays with the best organization in the league.

Out.

You realize I said that Prescott had more talent right? And I never said he was better, though I would argue he has been almost as good.

And yes, it has to all play out, which has been my entire point. I am the one saying that it is premature to think he is a HOFer, or greatest of all time, precisely because I know it has to all play out.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Huh? I would argue quite the opposite. There are people on this board arguing that Jameis is on pace to be a HOFer and even the greatest QB of all time. Someone with an understanding of the NFL is not going to remotely put a player on that type of pedestal after 28 games. We have seen many flash in the pan type players that have a nice stretch and then end up being average, sometimes due to injury, sometimes for other reasons. Or, we have players that look good early, but never improve much over the course of their careers. Jameis has been impressive for a young QB, but from a HOF standard, he is no where close, and obviously has to improve tremendously to even be discussing that. He might very well do that, I have not once dismissed that possibility, but I am saying let's wait it out before we start giving him all of these amazing career accolades. I am not saying that is going to happen with Jameis, but at the same time, there is no way anyone who closely follows the NFL can already put Jameis on the type of pedestal some people are putting him on. So no, it is not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, it is disagreeing

You just admitted you don't know or understand the full context of his career and what he means to lots of people. The folks talking HOF are in part bragging about his early career because of what Winston went through. If you don't get that part then you'll just continue to talk into the wind because it's a whole other level people are operating on.

Not saying who is right or wrong but if you walk into a PETA meeting and talk about the health benefits of eating dogs there's a pretty low ceiling on where your "arguments" will go. It's on you if you want to ignore the context.

You are more than welcome to keep on going...but it's the definition of disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. You get involved in every Winston thread on the board (and the rape threads of the past) so most people realize: A) you should know the context of how FSU fans view him, and/or B) you're just trying to be a pain.

It's a free country, have at it, I'm just letting you know the deal.

 

[Cubs79]

You just admitted you don't know or understand the full context of his career and what he means to lots of people. The folks talking HOF are in part bragging about his early career because of what Winston went through. If you don't get that part then you'll just continue to talk into the wind because it's a whole other level people are operating on.

Not saying who is right or wrong but if you walk into a PETA meeting and talk about the health benefits of eating dogs there's a pretty low ceiling on where your "arguments" will go. It's on you if you want to ignore the context.

You are more than welcome to keep on going...but it's the definition of disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. You get involved in every Winston thread on the board (and the rape threads of the past) so most people realize: A) you should know the context of how FSU fans view him, and/or B) you're just trying to be a pain.

It's a free country, have at it, I'm just letting you know the deal.

You arent making sense. HIs entire career has been 28 games. Like I said earlier, I think a lot of guys are still looking at him through a college or FSU prism, but that is meaningless at this point. WHat he went through at FSU is not going to win him any NFL games. WHat he went through at FSU is not remotely going to be on any HOF voters minds 20 years or from now when he is potentially on a ballot. So I would argue just the opposite. Anyone trying to give him bonus points for what he went through at FSU are the one's who dont understand his career from an NFL narrative. I understand having an affinity for guys you cheered for in college, and obviously being in Tampa there is a lot of crossover of FSU/Bucs fans, but FSU has nothing to do with his NFL career.

I only get involved with Winston threads when they are crapping on Mariota. I couldnt careless about the Bucs or Winston to be honest, but the reality, is that Mariota has been every bit as good as WInston at this point. SO yeah, when people act like Jameis is the greatest QB that ever played, when Marcus has been just as good, I think it is perfectly reasonable to bring that up.

ANd it is possible I am just discussing football. Is disagreement not allowed on this board? It might not be, who knows. Some of these rival boards are nothing more than online safe spaces, I have found that out. I am a Gator fan who got banned from their board because I argued Tebow wasnt a good pro QB, which he wasnt, and no amount of pride in him as a Gator QB was going to change the fact he wasnt a good pro QB. This board I thought was different, but who knows. I never understand the point of echo chambers. If people just want to talk to people they agree with everything on, why not just talk to themselves?

 

[mlanton]

Bless your heart, Cubs79. Watching this thread, it is really amazing what you read into other folks' comments. You sure do miss-quote or misunderstand others' comments quite a bit.

 

[Cubs79]

Bless your heart, Cubs79. Watching this thread, it is really amazing what you read into other folks' comments. You sure do miss-quote or misunderstand others' comments quite a bit.

The first post of the thread says he is heading to the Hall of Fame barring injury. Another post says he is on pace to be the greatest QB of all time. Those are pretty straightforward comments, I am not sure how you think I am reading into those are misconstruing those types of comments, they arent written in any sort of abstract manner or allow for any type of nuance.