In another thread Old School Nole shared a few concerns about how he is being charged for his seating and I would up giving him an answer to his question but wrote a diatribe to add some perspective that y'all may agree with or not but I thought I'd make it a seperate thread for discussion.
My seats are being moved from where I selected them on the west side of the 6th floor to the east side of the six floor as all the seats on the west sold out before they got to my priority number. I too was told I would be asked to pay the new capital campaign gift to qualify to purchase my two seats ($4,000 for two seats) but was told they would credit me for my previous $1000 donation per seat ($2000) toward the new seats. Did they tell you the same?
I thought crediting me for each seat was pretty fair as the new seating product will give me a table and more room and I get it, they need to generate revenue to make the renovation to improve the optics and the experience. But I'm not happy about having to move to the east side where the afternoon soon can be an issue. I've made a commitment with the understanding that if there are no seats along the top few rows available at the time of my seat selection, I'm going to select in the uncovered seats right outside the Osceola Grill with no table , lower seat price, and no capital gift requirement. I like to sit in those seats anyway, as I prefer the All-22 view.
As for being the communications/marketing guy for that project, I was, and Andy Miller allowed me to be the owners rep for the design and construction.
As for Andy Miller... I'm gong to write a long reply to both you and to others who may read this who haven't been season ticket holders, boosters, or donors to this university that may give them some historical perspective.
Do you remember when the Boosters were criticised on these message boards for being local yocals? There were people who felt our staff was too inbred, all Florida State graduates, and that the Boosters needed some outside, big city thinkers who would bring fresh, new ideas. You remember those posts calling us "Tallahassee State University"?
Let me add some context. Florida State wasn't the first to build a professional athletic fundraising organization but it was one of the first to do so outside the athletics department. George Langford was the guy who hired the first full time guy, Andy Miller, who had been selling Motorola. Sue Hall, who later became Bowden's secretary, worked with Andy. A year of so later, he hired Charlie Barnes and for years it was just the two of them and a handful of staff. They were an annual fund organization. And they had the benefit of the mentorship of Langford and a Booster Board that Andy filled with the best and brightest alumni from across the country who volunteered their advice and service to the university, advice and service that we drew from liberally.
Andy was all about common sense and knew this marketplace like the back of his hand. He knew it intuitively as a third generation Seminole and because he studied it and tested our results continuously. We all did. We were all Florida State people, former students, season ticket buyers and donors ourselves and had a variety of business careers prior to working for the Boosters. Andy and Charlie were locals but I am from Miami and Orlando, Joel Padgett was from West Palm, Tom Carlson from New Jersey so we knew what the FSU fans experience was like becuase we had lived it ourselves as season ticket holders and Booster donors who had made the drive from Orlando, West Palm every week and paid the two-night minimums.
When Dave Hart arrive and sold our board on the need to upgrade facilities for all sports, the Boosters became like a two-headed dragon, where we had to keep our eye on the annual fundraising which funds athletics but also raise hundreds of million of dollars to build football facilities, soccer-softball complex, baseball, track, tennis, swimming, basketball etc. And it took more staff to do it, staff that came from everywhere (but more times than not an FSU alumni).
Because none of his senior staff had worked at another university, Andy made sure we studied what other schools were doing, develop relationships with our counterparts at Clemson or other schools who were doing it well and go visit them to learn more. I went to a number of campuses to learn all I could, even the University of Florida. And everywhere I visited it seemed like they had three or more people there with a list of questions who wanted to pick my brain about what we were doing at Florida State and how we were doing it as they admired aspects of our organization.
Among my duties, I ran the annual fund for a number of years and was the point on the ticket priority policy set by FSU in 1976 when Bowden arrived. I tell you this to put in context what Alford and Ponder are faced with. Other schools were raising their donation requirements to buy seasons football tickets but FSU did not from 1976 until 2000 when Andy put me in charge of doing the first of three increases in my 19 years there. Each time it was mandated by a need to raise more money to balance the athletics budget, we'd lose ticket holders and donors -- most local -- who said "we priced them out". Over time we went from 70 percent of Doak being local to 70 percent living 150 or more miles away. This is a price sensitive local market but to raise the money to balance the budget, sometimes you have to force "giving" by increasing the minimum contribution per seat.
At one time our policy asked just 25 percent of what the average school in the ACC and SEC was charging for seats but our fans really didn't like hearing it. They expect to beat those schools but aren't willing to make the commitment the fans of those schools are willing to make. Can you imagine a coach saying, "Men, I need you to give me 100 percent this week at practice to beat Florida on Saturday and the team pushing back saying we'll give you 50 percent coach but we're really not happy doing it."
Over those three priority policy changes we were still less than half of the average, yet I receive death threats and promises to kick my @ss. Flash forward to today when about 50 percent is where we still stand today as our competitors continue to increase their's too.
We were also constantly trying to expand the base of donors so as to lighten the load on our existing donors. At one time we had 21,000 members giving $25 or more. At times, those numbers have fallen below 14,000. The Boosters have always had an eye on growing that base to our 500,000 plus living alumni yet have far less than 2 percent participation with many of our Boosters friends of the university and not alumni. Many of the people who pay to read this post are not Boosters. And quite a few have never been. So if the base chooses not to widen, the Boosters are left to rely on 5 percent carrying the load for 100 percent of those people who cheer for the Seminoles but won't contribute.
There was a paradygm shift when the Boosters initially hired Michael Alford as the Booster CEO and President and later Stephen Ponder, who both have impressive resumes at other prestigious universities. They know the business and bring outside knowledge that is very valuable. Obviously, they did not bring as much feel for the price sensitivity of this market and that cuts both ways. I totally understand your anger at being charged 3 percent, or other upset to be charged $100 to park, or having your seats moved to a lesser location for more money. I get it because I'm living it on a fixed income and am now price sensitve myself. But I'm also aware I've been spoiled by FSU's pricing over the years. I ran countless studies of other stadiums and our prices and know these new prices are still well below equivalent seats in opposing stadiums.
Our university hired Michael and Stephen to rip that bandaid off and to charge closer to market in order to provide our athletics teams with equivalent resources to the teams we compete with today and they are about that painful work. While they don't feel the same pain we do, I promise you it is painful to them too. I know as I had those difficult conversations with as many as 15 folks a day. Can't tell you how many people said I've been loyal to FSU. Why isn't FSU loyal to me? They understand why the Ford truck they are loyal to costs three times as much today as the Ford truck they bought 20 years ago. They don't expect Ford to be loyal to them yet expect FSU to be. They are painful conversations because they are VERY personal.
What they are dong to Doak was necessary and while some people don't think they needed to build the premium seating, I can tell you that premium seating is allowing them to fund the stadium at a lot lower price per seat for you than if they had made them all bleacher seats and spread the cost evenly among everyone.
Prior to our retirements, Andy and I had studied replacing Doak. He ordered a comprehensive stadium master plan and The Champions Club was phase 1 as we were generating next to zero revenue from the south endzone. The West Side of Doak was the next phase 2, and the East side Phase 3 would complete the project. We met with Legends and Populac, the same folks Alford later chose to do another study. The project you see today on the west side is very much like the project we planned to do several years ago, so I understand the why. Doak had to be torn down and everything from the sewers up needed to be modernized and that ain't cheap.
I'm not a fan of the communications plan but I will defer to Alford's experience, as he's run similar projects at Bama, OK and with the Cowboys and brings a wealth of that outside knowledge. I like it that they haven't opened sales to the public, giving priority to existing seat holders in those sections. That's the common sense to ascribe to Andy. I also like it that they are meeting one-on-one with everyone to explain the product they are selling. I find that very generous with their time and helpful to me as a buyer and Legends probably would have talked Andy and I into a similar strategy, one they employ on every campus.
What I disagree with, but defer to their outside experience, is the way they sold the seats one product at a time in those one-on-one meetings. One of the guys I cultivated as a donor years ago called me after his west side club seat meeting shocked by the prices for the Zone 1 club seats, which required a $15,000 capital campaign gift per seat, $30,000 total. He was also miffed by the price for the seat but had tuned out during the presentation to where he didn't realize the seat price INCLUDED enough credit to pay his Golden Chief Booster membership. He doesn't drink so had no interest in the club. And when he asked what other options he had, they told him about the chairback seats -- which would have been perfect for him -- but wouldn't be able to tell him what that price would be for another six months.
We lost him when we could have saved him by telling him the chairback price, which is where I have to defer to their better, outside experience as the club seats sold out.
The folks who went to those meetings told friends about their meeting and it spread like wildfire that ALL the seats would be priced at those Zone 1 club seat prices. Can't tell you how many people who have not been to their meeting yet actually believe the chairback seats will require a $15,000 contribution per seat and don't realize the seat price includes an annual fund credit so you don't have to write a check to the Boosters too.
I've noticed they adapted their strategy in the chairback section. Rather than going one zone at a time, like they did with the club seats, they will tell you the price of the seats in all three zones on your visit. That will take less time and give people the information they need to make a choice. There will be bleacher seats on the west side that will be far less and not require a capital gift but they aren't selling those yet. I don hope they are communicating that option to those who say they cannot afford the chairback seat prices so people know there is a less expensive west side option.
I empathize with Alford and Ponder. Been there and done that and frankly miss it. They had a tough row to hoe to start with and it has only become more challenging with this football season. I hope you and every poor soul who reads this diatribe will understand Alford and Ponder are not the enemy any more than Andy and I were back when we were having to cram higher prices down your throat. The enemy is on the other sideline. Every program is dealing with rising prices and there's no great way to ask someone to swallow the prune juice and castor oil cocktail.
First, let me respond to your concerns as a fellow Champions Club ticket BUYER.
My seats are being moved from where I selected them on the west side of the 6th floor to the east side of the six floor as all the seats on the west sold out before they got to my priority number. I too was told I would be asked to pay the new capital campaign gift to qualify to purchase my two seats ($4,000 for two seats) but was told they would credit me for my previous $1000 donation per seat ($2000) toward the new seats. Did they tell you the same?
I thought crediting me for each seat was pretty fair as the new seating product will give me a table and more room and I get it, they need to generate revenue to make the renovation to improve the optics and the experience. But I'm not happy about having to move to the east side where the afternoon soon can be an issue. I've made a commitment with the understanding that if there are no seats along the top few rows available at the time of my seat selection, I'm going to select in the uncovered seats right outside the Osceola Grill with no table , lower seat price, and no capital gift requirement. I like to sit in those seats anyway, as I prefer the All-22 view.
As for being the communications/marketing guy for that project, I was, and Andy Miller allowed me to be the owners rep for the design and construction.
As for Andy Miller... I'm gong to write a long reply to both you and to others who may read this who haven't been season ticket holders, boosters, or donors to this university that may give them some historical perspective.
Do you remember when the Boosters were criticised on these message boards for being local yocals? There were people who felt our staff was too inbred, all Florida State graduates, and that the Boosters needed some outside, big city thinkers who would bring fresh, new ideas. You remember those posts calling us "Tallahassee State University"?
Let me add some context. Florida State wasn't the first to build a professional athletic fundraising organization but it was one of the first to do so outside the athletics department. George Langford was the guy who hired the first full time guy, Andy Miller, who had been selling Motorola. Sue Hall, who later became Bowden's secretary, worked with Andy. A year of so later, he hired Charlie Barnes and for years it was just the two of them and a handful of staff. They were an annual fund organization. And they had the benefit of the mentorship of Langford and a Booster Board that Andy filled with the best and brightest alumni from across the country who volunteered their advice and service to the university, advice and service that we drew from liberally.
Andy was all about common sense and knew this marketplace like the back of his hand. He knew it intuitively as a third generation Seminole and because he studied it and tested our results continuously. We all did. We were all Florida State people, former students, season ticket buyers and donors ourselves and had a variety of business careers prior to working for the Boosters. Andy and Charlie were locals but I am from Miami and Orlando, Joel Padgett was from West Palm, Tom Carlson from New Jersey so we knew what the FSU fans experience was like becuase we had lived it ourselves as season ticket holders and Booster donors who had made the drive from Orlando, West Palm every week and paid the two-night minimums.
When Dave Hart arrive and sold our board on the need to upgrade facilities for all sports, the Boosters became like a two-headed dragon, where we had to keep our eye on the annual fundraising which funds athletics but also raise hundreds of million of dollars to build football facilities, soccer-softball complex, baseball, track, tennis, swimming, basketball etc. And it took more staff to do it, staff that came from everywhere (but more times than not an FSU alumni).
Because none of his senior staff had worked at another university, Andy made sure we studied what other schools were doing, develop relationships with our counterparts at Clemson or other schools who were doing it well and go visit them to learn more. I went to a number of campuses to learn all I could, even the University of Florida. And everywhere I visited it seemed like they had three or more people there with a list of questions who wanted to pick my brain about what we were doing at Florida State and how we were doing it as they admired aspects of our organization.
Among my duties, I ran the annual fund for a number of years and was the point on the ticket priority policy set by FSU in 1976 when Bowden arrived. I tell you this to put in context what Alford and Ponder are faced with. Other schools were raising their donation requirements to buy seasons football tickets but FSU did not from 1976 until 2000 when Andy put me in charge of doing the first of three increases in my 19 years there. Each time it was mandated by a need to raise more money to balance the athletics budget, we'd lose ticket holders and donors -- most local -- who said "we priced them out". Over time we went from 70 percent of Doak being local to 70 percent living 150 or more miles away. This is a price sensitive local market but to raise the money to balance the budget, sometimes you have to force "giving" by increasing the minimum contribution per seat.
At one time our policy asked just 25 percent of what the average school in the ACC and SEC was charging for seats but our fans really didn't like hearing it. They expect to beat those schools but aren't willing to make the commitment the fans of those schools are willing to make. Can you imagine a coach saying, "Men, I need you to give me 100 percent this week at practice to beat Florida on Saturday and the team pushing back saying we'll give you 50 percent coach but we're really not happy doing it."
Over those three priority policy changes we were still less than half of the average, yet I receive death threats and promises to kick my @ss. Flash forward to today when about 50 percent is where we still stand today as our competitors continue to increase their's too.
We were also constantly trying to expand the base of donors so as to lighten the load on our existing donors. At one time we had 21,000 members giving $25 or more. At times, those numbers have fallen below 14,000. The Boosters have always had an eye on growing that base to our 500,000 plus living alumni yet have far less than 2 percent participation with many of our Boosters friends of the university and not alumni. Many of the people who pay to read this post are not Boosters. And quite a few have never been. So if the base chooses not to widen, the Boosters are left to rely on 5 percent carrying the load for 100 percent of those people who cheer for the Seminoles but won't contribute.
There was a paradygm shift when the Boosters initially hired Michael Alford as the Booster CEO and President and later Stephen Ponder, who both have impressive resumes at other prestigious universities. They know the business and bring outside knowledge that is very valuable. Obviously, they did not bring as much feel for the price sensitivity of this market and that cuts both ways. I totally understand your anger at being charged 3 percent, or other upset to be charged $100 to park, or having your seats moved to a lesser location for more money. I get it because I'm living it on a fixed income and am now price sensitve myself. But I'm also aware I've been spoiled by FSU's pricing over the years. I ran countless studies of other stadiums and our prices and know these new prices are still well below equivalent seats in opposing stadiums.
Our university hired Michael and Stephen to rip that bandaid off and to charge closer to market in order to provide our athletics teams with equivalent resources to the teams we compete with today and they are about that painful work. While they don't feel the same pain we do, I promise you it is painful to them too. I know as I had those difficult conversations with as many as 15 folks a day. Can't tell you how many people said I've been loyal to FSU. Why isn't FSU loyal to me? They understand why the Ford truck they are loyal to costs three times as much today as the Ford truck they bought 20 years ago. They don't expect Ford to be loyal to them yet expect FSU to be. They are painful conversations because they are VERY personal.
What they are dong to Doak was necessary and while some people don't think they needed to build the premium seating, I can tell you that premium seating is allowing them to fund the stadium at a lot lower price per seat for you than if they had made them all bleacher seats and spread the cost evenly among everyone.
Prior to our retirements, Andy and I had studied replacing Doak. He ordered a comprehensive stadium master plan and The Champions Club was phase 1 as we were generating next to zero revenue from the south endzone. The West Side of Doak was the next phase 2, and the East side Phase 3 would complete the project. We met with Legends and Populac, the same folks Alford later chose to do another study. The project you see today on the west side is very much like the project we planned to do several years ago, so I understand the why. Doak had to be torn down and everything from the sewers up needed to be modernized and that ain't cheap.
I'm not a fan of the communications plan but I will defer to Alford's experience, as he's run similar projects at Bama, OK and with the Cowboys and brings a wealth of that outside knowledge. I like it that they haven't opened sales to the public, giving priority to existing seat holders in those sections. That's the common sense to ascribe to Andy. I also like it that they are meeting one-on-one with everyone to explain the product they are selling. I find that very generous with their time and helpful to me as a buyer and Legends probably would have talked Andy and I into a similar strategy, one they employ on every campus.
What I disagree with, but defer to their outside experience, is the way they sold the seats one product at a time in those one-on-one meetings. One of the guys I cultivated as a donor years ago called me after his west side club seat meeting shocked by the prices for the Zone 1 club seats, which required a $15,000 capital campaign gift per seat, $30,000 total. He was also miffed by the price for the seat but had tuned out during the presentation to where he didn't realize the seat price INCLUDED enough credit to pay his Golden Chief Booster membership. He doesn't drink so had no interest in the club. And when he asked what other options he had, they told him about the chairback seats -- which would have been perfect for him -- but wouldn't be able to tell him what that price would be for another six months.
We lost him when we could have saved him by telling him the chairback price, which is where I have to defer to their better, outside experience as the club seats sold out.
The folks who went to those meetings told friends about their meeting and it spread like wildfire that ALL the seats would be priced at those Zone 1 club seat prices. Can't tell you how many people who have not been to their meeting yet actually believe the chairback seats will require a $15,000 contribution per seat and don't realize the seat price includes an annual fund credit so you don't have to write a check to the Boosters too.
I've noticed they adapted their strategy in the chairback section. Rather than going one zone at a time, like they did with the club seats, they will tell you the price of the seats in all three zones on your visit. That will take less time and give people the information they need to make a choice. There will be bleacher seats on the west side that will be far less and not require a capital gift but they aren't selling those yet. I don hope they are communicating that option to those who say they cannot afford the chairback seat prices so people know there is a less expensive west side option.
I empathize with Alford and Ponder. Been there and done that and frankly miss it. They had a tough row to hoe to start with and it has only become more challenging with this football season. I hope you and every poor soul who reads this diatribe will understand Alford and Ponder are not the enemy any more than Andy and I were back when we were having to cram higher prices down your throat. The enemy is on the other sideline. Every program is dealing with rising prices and there's no great way to ask someone to swallow the prune juice and castor oil cocktail.
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